Twisted-----good news!!

[Bergie]

Doug Meyer and Muzzys will argue that the bike is not speed limited.  On the ZX10 forums they have repeated stated the bike is not speed limited in any way, and as Mr. Millholland pointed out, Chad went 202 MPH on a Coby Adams built ZX-10R, naturally aspirated, and Muzzys claims that the bike had no speed limiter, and no device to bypass such a limiter.

Wonder who's correct?  

[Hank]

OK--was I on the rpm limiter at 186?If not--it's limited.Give me a link to where this is posted.Am I the only guy in the world that has tried this??
I doubt it,and I bet others have had the same thing happen.

[Bergie]

http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=19&TID=15534

there's one, I'll dig up some others.  On several occasions the topic of a production speed limitation on the 10R has been discussed, and each time they claim one does not exist.  

I only asked because I was going to ride a 10R for the production 1000cc record at Maxton.  But my efforts were hijacked but a despirate loser who needed to prove something to himself and screwed over a buddy to do it but I wont get into that here  

http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=19&TID=13067

http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=19&TID=12958

[Hank]

OK--I posted on the first one.Lets see what the reply will be.

[02SE]

3440? Hank? 3/4miles?

Cookie, 3440 refers to 3440 ft. in elavation.  

Hank, maybe you have some of that speed mojo working for you. After running over 240 mph on the salt, every bike you ride feels like it has something to prove, so they run faster for you.    

[Bergie]

Dont you think that if it were proven the 10R was restricted by electronics that a bypass device would have been successfully marketed by now?    What do you think would happen if you put a small dry hit of gas (+30/40hp) on your production 10R and made another run with no other changes.

[Twisted]

dwayne-----deep breath---all this was done on a dyno---NOT ON THE ROAD.I was wondering how the 10 guys beat the limiter,and O2SE said that he had heard of setting the yellow box to a 20% deduction,so at 200 your speedo reads 160.Check the dates of the posts.This was done AFTER I did the topend run.NOTHING was done to beat the system on the 10.The GPS reads 187 because(as speedking can tell you) if I went 186.5001,it will show 187.Maybe it had enough momentum,because it was pulling so hard,that it made it past the .5001 mark before it slowed down.Get it??Remove the speed restriction on your bike if you want.We were talking "stock for stock".If you want to start modifying them,then it's just about money.Before you do anything,I would like to see a gps at 3440 showing 186 from your stock bike.

deep breath...  

OK, thats what I thought happened, it was a GPS(not really an error)reading...

so that confirms what I beleived and have been trying to say, the 10s and the R-1s are restricted to real world speed and not as indicated on the speedo...unless your speedo has no error? are you saying the GPS corrolated with the speedo? WOW!

my gixxer speed restriction is determined or set by the speedo indication, once the speedo reaches 186, it cuts out ignition, and on my gixxer that is around 172 mph @10k, going by a % that some people feel the speedos are in error of(I will determine this)I have done this twice with consistancy on drag dynos and once on the street(no gps on street to go by).

so in order to see which bike has a faster top end I would have to remove the restriction in order to allow it to reach the rev limiter in sixth gear, as should you...

otherwise I will conceide to pure out of the box top end speed simply becasue I know how the speed restriction is applied...

but there are still other races to be determined, quarter, half, and mile digs and roll ons... I,ll give ya the half, I already know that result....

I am looking for a GPS, I may get one for christmas...   I will video too...

[Twisted]

http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=19&TID=15534

there's one, I'll dig up some others.  On several occasions the topic of a production speed limitation on the 10R has been discussed, and each time they claim one does not exist.  

I only asked because I was going to ride a 10R for the production 1000cc record at Maxton.  But my efforts were hijacked but a despirate loser who needed to prove something to himself and screwed over a buddy to do it but I wont get into that here  

http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=19&TID=13067



http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=19&TID=12958

out of all three threads hank was the only one to give any kind of hint about anything regarding the speed restriction, hanks post doesnt reveal how the restriction works, but it does reveal WHERE it works and that is it cuts off at a REAL WORLD 186-87 proven by GPS


so if the speedo was reading 186 while the gps was reading 187, kawasaki has been able to build their speedos fairly accurate and has most likely set their cut off by indicated speed? I couldnt tell by the yellow box data if it is restricted using RPMs in a certain gear(6th) like the hayabusa, or by indicated speed in a certain gear, or purly by indicated speed in any gear? maybe hank sorted this out?

[Twisted]

apparently the hayabusa is restricted by a certain RPM in 6th gear? if you put a 19 up front wont you get more GPS top speed out of it before it cuts out?

[Hank]

I did not look at the speedo on the road.It would have been close as i do have a speedo corrector and used 150 on this bike.If you remove the restrictor----you no longer have a STOCK bike.Race4it----I have no idea what would happen or why there is no device.I already have figured a way around it with the help of 02SE.What I do know is that STOCK,at 3440 ft.,my bike shuts off and turns on at about 186 MPH.If I adjust the speedo to read low,it does not.Thats what I know and have proved it.Now explain to me why.

[Twisted]

I did not look at the speedo on the road.It would have been close as i do have a speedo corrector and used 150 on this bike.If you remove the restrictor----you no longer have a STOCK bike.Race4it----I have no idea what would happen or why there is no device.I already have figured a way around it with the help of 02SE.What I do know is that STOCK,at 3440 ft.,my bike shuts off and turns on at about 186 MPH.If I adjust the speedo to read low,it does not.Thats what I know and have proved it.Now explain to me why.

I beleive what you say, I think the 10 speedo is fairly accurate and the restriction is applied by the speedo sending the ECU a number?... I dont think restricting any bike in any way is totally accurate though, momentum, tailwinds etc... I once saw 187 on my gixxer, think I was going downhill...


I dont know how to determine if the speed is set by speedo or RPMs? its all the same I guess if the speed sensor runs off the countersprocket...

the speedometer is just determining speed given RPMs and gear selection, isnt it?

exactly how they are doing it I couldnt say, I know the busa uses a certain RPM in 6th, and the ECU sorts gear selection by a frequency sent by a seperate capacitor for each gear near the stator. if you add one tooth up front the speedo is more accurate...

either way, I will have to use a TRE, cuz the gixxer cuts off at 186 indicated which is pretty optomistic...

I dont think that changes the HP output any, it just fools the ECU into thinking its in 5th, and the ECU has no perameters set for 5th gear other than fuel mapping, and I think the 5th and 6th gear maps are pretty much the same?

[02SE]

apparently the hayabusa is restricted by a certain RPM in 6th gear? if you put a 19 up front wont you get more GPS top speed out of it before it cuts out?

No, a stock Busa is already geared for a top speed higher than it can pull. A 19 tooth sprocket would severely over-gear the bike, and would just slow you down.

That is unless you had significantly more power than stock. Then you could go faster before the restricter kicked in. That is of course on '01 and newer restricted bikes.

But if you are hitting the speed restricter on an '01 or newer bike, you would just use a TRE to bypass it.

[02SE]

Cookie, 3440 refers to 3440 ft. in elavation.  

Thanks, Brian, I can't always read the trend of thought or peoples minds.

Don't feel bad, I can't either.

[Twisted]

apparently the hayabusa is restricted by a certain RPM in 6th gear? if you put a 19 up front wont you get more GPS top speed out of it before it cuts out?

No, a stock Busa is already geared for a top speed higher than it can pull. A 19 tooth sprocket would severely over-gear the bike, and would just slow you down.

That is unless you had significantly more power than stock. Then you could go faster before the restricter kicked in. That is of course on '01 and newer restricted bikes.

But if you are hitting the speed restricter on an '01 or newer bike, you would just use a TRE to bypass it.

thats not what I have been told by a reliable source, says the 19 tooth comes on japanese models and it keeps the speedo more towards correct, saying it will give it more GPS may only be in theory? I dunno?

[02SE]

apparently the hayabusa is restricted by a certain RPM in 6th gear? if you put a 19 up front wont you get more GPS top speed out of it before it cuts out?

No, a stock Busa is already geared for a top speed higher than it can pull. A 19 tooth sprocket would severely over-gear the bike, and would just slow you down.

That is unless you had significantly more power than stock. Then you could go faster before the restricter kicked in. That is of course on '01 and newer restricted bikes.

But if you are hitting the speed restricter on an '01 or newer bike, you would just use a TRE to bypass it.

thats not what I have been told by a reliable source, says the 19 tooth comes on japanese models and it keeps the speedo more towards correct, saying it will give it more GPS may only be in theory? I dunno?

Read the whole article from the link I posted near the top of this thread.

They tried one tooth down in the rear, and lost speed just with that small change. The stock Busa couldn't pull even that fractionally taller gearing.  

Two teeth up on the front sprocket, would be approx. equivalent to 6 teeth off the rear sprocket.

You would need ALOT more power to pull redline with that gearing.

[Twisted]

I am not saying it would top out, I am saying a 19 tooth will bring the speedo more towards real world speed. like when you're doing 120 GPS the speedo will read 119/20... unlike with an 18 tooth where when the speedo says 120 you are really doing 108 GPS....

it is possible to bury the tach on a piped busa in 6th with an 18, especially on the northbound 599 with an air temerature of around 40 degrees, its like having boost....  

[02SE]

You know that the stock front sprocket is a 17 tooth right?. An 18 tooth would make the speedo pretty close to accurate, a 19 tooth would make it read slow.

[Bergie]

The ECU sends the speedometer it's signal, not the other way around.  RPM and gear position calculate the speed, and it's definitely not accurate from the factory.

If you doubt this, put a -1 or -2 front sprocket on the bike and see how rediculously off your speedo is.   And if you think the bike is cutting off at 186 MPH, dropping a couple teeth on the front or adding some teeth to the rear and doing your GPS test again will prove it.  If you are correct then the bike should shut off at an INDICATED 186 on the speedo and significantly less on your GPS because of the gearing change.

Do some scientific testing before drawing your conclusions based on your singal top speed test results of 186/187 in production form at a high altitude on the street.   You have not undoubtedly determined there is an electronic restriction of top speed on a ZX10R.  At this point, you have "proven" only that you went 187 mph indicated on a GPS.  

Change the gearing, put it on the dyno, see if it dies at an "indicated 186".   Or add more power via a pipe and/or nitrous, and retest your top speed.

Only seeking the truth..  accurately.

[Hank]

I have a speedometer corrector on the bike.I set the speedometer to match the GPS at 150.If I had run out of motor,it would have stayed smoothly at that speed.I do know what a limiter feels like.It was either the rpm limiter or speed limiter.What is the ZX-10 geared for?If you don't believe my results,then ignore them.What I posted is the truth.I had switched the speedometer to read in KPH,but also switched the bikes speedometer to read in KPH,after adjusting it to be correct at 150.I did take the bike back and put it on the dyno with a 20%+ correction factor to the speeedometer corrector.It pushed the tach sweep past 14 but indicated 12,640 on the dyno graph.No engine cut off was noted,as there was on the highway.One of 2 things happened on the highway.I was out of gear,or the bike has a speed limiter.If you are seeking truth,there it is.Make of it what you will.

[Kirk]

A buddy of mine has a pair of ZX10Rs, and I have an '04 R1. All three bikes slam into the limiter pretty hard at an indicated 189 mph in about a mile or so. I have no idea how fast. But they're certainly restricted. They don't pull on the top end like a Hayabusa, but they feel like they'd go faster without the restriction.

[Hank]

I have no doubt of that kirk.I proved it to myself.I went down to my shop and got the service manual out for the 10 and checked the speedometer wiring,and the signal goes to the speedometer corrector BEFORE it goes to the ECU.3 wires and 2 go to the speedo with one t tapped to the ecu and a ground.The corrector is wired in before the ecu.Each gear has it's own map and my dyno pull was in 6th gear.Mine also felt like it had another 5 mph in it.I don't have a lot of top end experience,but enough to tell it had more.The gearing would be 196.5 stock in a perfect world,so
191 is possible.If you check my first post,I said 190-191.

[Twisted]

You know that the stock front sprocket is a 17 tooth right?. An 18 tooth would make the speedo pretty close to accurate, a 19 tooth would make it read slow.

yup thats what I meant, an 18  

[Twisted]

I have no doubt of that kirk.I proved it to myself.I went down to my shop and got the service manual out for the 10 and checked the speedometer wiring,and the signal goes to the speedometer corrector BEFORE it goes to the ECU.3 wires and 2 go to the speedo with one t tapped to the ecu and a ground.The corrector is wired in before the ecu.Each gear has it's own map and my dyno pull was in 6th gear.Mine also felt like it had another 5 mph in it.I don't have a lot of top end experience,but enough to tell it had more.The gearing would be 196.5 stock in a perfect world,so
191 is possible.If you check my first post,I said 190-191.

does the 10 use a final drive speed sensor? if so the only way the ECU could limit anything is through the RPMs, you could however fool the ECU into thinking that the engine is spinning slower than it really is by picking up ALL the revolution signals before the ECU gets them, maybe the speed limiter runs off the speed sensor and the rev limiter runs off something else like a crank angle sensor or something in the stator???, either way you should be able to at least get the motor to spin up to the rev limiter in 6th by interupting the speed ristriction signal, unless they check it from two different sensors?...

I however will just install a TRE and run it up to the limiter in 6th, if it will go there?