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Author Topic: Super Street 2006 rules  (Read 42575 times)

Offline zrxdean

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Super Street 2006 rules
« on: December 01, 2005, 04:54:43 PM »
The only rule Prostar changed is to outlaw electronic boost controllers. They say nothing about progressive nitrous controllers.  Strange that a $500 MSBC is outlawed, when a $500 5-dial controller box is OK?  What's up with that Willis?

Dean

Offline zrxdean

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2005, 05:05:28 PM »
I just sent an email to Scooter.

Offline Blackhawk

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2005, 05:09:20 PM »
no boost controlllers?   :lol:

Prostar is becoming more of a joke everyday.

They won't allow stuff, that would increase participation and they continue to outlaw stuff that people have on their bikes...


You can have your "Big" series, where politics rule.

I'll stick to spectating, it's cheaper, and the rules don't change every year.
PSI's Matters Racing
2003 Pro Street Hayabusa -- NLR Power/AMS Boost Control

Offline DaveO

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2005, 05:13:26 PM »
Dean,

Actually it makes perfect sense....they are tryin to balance out the advantages between NOS and Boost. If they allow electronic multi controller for the trubo bikes, the NOS bikes will have no chance.....

DeJa Vu...from the original superbike rules 2000....Rickey VS Brock......turbo VS NOS....rules changed mid season.. We still won...with some luck....

FF to 05...and Rickey wins SS, ridin for US ....who'da thunk???

Dave
220.312 at Maxton...ALL MOTOR

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Offline Blackhawk

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2005, 05:18:08 PM »
Sure... And if the dog didn't stop to take a shit, he would have caught the rabbit!


They want to make the class a "stepping stone" to Pro Street, yet they won't allow boost controllers, they won't allow multi-stage lock-ups, etc, etc


Doesn't make sense... I know, lets make a "stepping stone" class for Pro Stock. No bars allowed, no slicks, and no air shifters.   :duh:
PSI's Matters Racing
2003 Pro Street Hayabusa -- NLR Power/AMS Boost Control

GoldenChild

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2005, 06:30:16 PM »
They are trying to create parity,our rules here are almost identical and it's ashame ,but that's rules.

THEMOTORHEAD

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2005, 06:42:38 PM »
HY SOUNDS LIKE MY DAILY DRIVER
ILL BE MAKIN A KIT FOR THIS CLASS
UNDER 54MM INTAKE :wink:

THEMOTORHEAD

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2005, 06:44:01 PM »
WHO HAS A COPY OF THE RULES
COURSE NO RULES ALLOW INTERCOOLERS
HMM DONT MAKE EM FASTER SO IT HAS TO BE FROM THEM BEING BIASED TOWARD CERTAIN MANUFACTURERS

Offline Blackhawk

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2005, 08:13:03 PM »
They are trying to create parity,our rules here are almost identical and it's ashame ,but that's rules.

Really?

How do you create parity on a class that has all but flopped with a measly 3-4 bikes entering the class all year?
Oh that's right... Make more rules so the turbo bikes are slowed down and the Nos bikes get an even playing field.  :zzz:
PSI's Matters Racing
2003 Pro Street Hayabusa -- NLR Power/AMS Boost Control

THEMOTORHEAD

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2005, 08:16:06 PM »
REMEMBER WHE NITROUS BIKES RULED SHOOTOUT AND THEY LOOSENED THE RULES TO HELP MAKE THE TURBOOS FAST


ME EITHER

Offline chunter

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2005, 08:35:04 PM »
What happens when Darren or someone else adds some more hp to their motor/NOS combo in 2006?  Then a turbo with no electric or mechanical boost control won't stand much of a chance.  Looks like the beginning of a NOS only class and Pro Street will be turbo only.

you can download the rules here
http://www.amaprostar.com/noframe_rulebook.asp

Too bad it is still an exhibition only class in 2006; yep, no points or championship goal just contingencies.
2005 1000SS record 157.82 1/4 mile mph
2005 1000SS record 126.23 1/8 mile mph
2005 1000SS record 9.104 1/4 et
2003 AMA/Prostar 600SS Champion
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Offline zrxdean

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2005, 10:11:11 PM »
Exactly Chip- if Darren built a 225hp motor and sprayed 100hp with progressive control, a single stage 350hp turbo would be hard pressed to keep up.

One option is to use a mechanical 3-stage boost controller, with regulators. But it seems so strange to go backwards with technology to race in a brand new class.  Not sure if this would even be legal.

Scooter hasn't replied yet.

Dean

Offline DaveO

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2005, 10:26:18 PM »
I guess it's all in how you look at it.....

With no multistage clutch, or controller.....you turbo boyz are goin to have a hard time catching Darren AT HIS CURRENT LEVEL...

Ridin a turbo bike with no controller and multistage clutch is next to impossible to be consistant on....So the advantage goes to motor with nos controller....

If you only want a stepping stone to Prostreet....but you want multistage controllers and clutches...then whats the diff????

Voice your opinion to Scooter...and hope the majority wins.

Dave
220.312 at Maxton...ALL MOTOR

www.NewLimitsTuning.com

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Offline DaveO

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2005, 10:27:56 PM »
REMEMBER WHE NITROUS BIKES RULED SHOOTOUT AND THEY LOOSENED THE RULES TO HELP MAKE THE TURBOOS FAST


ME EITHER

Actually they did in 00...they changed rules to allow multistage controllers....punk.

Dave
220.312 at Maxton...ALL MOTOR

www.NewLimitsTuning.com

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Offline zrxdean

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2005, 10:44:53 PM »
I understand your position Dave, and I appreciate your experience here. I'm not concerned with the multistage clutch. I just think that the typical turbo streetbike owner installs a boost controller if he wants to race at the track. It's a $500 add-on to a $5000 kit. If the class is supposed to appeal to folks with fast street legal bikes, then the rules should reflect the bikes at the local tracks. If nitrous controllers were outlawed too, it would make more sense. I know Darren doesn't use one, so he wouldn't be affected.

Todd Schnitz qualified with a 8.23 at Gainesville on a turbo with MSBC, almost 2 tenths ahead of Darren. Maybe this had something to do with the rule change?

Dean

THEMOTORHEAD

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2005, 11:09:51 PM »
WWHATS THE FASTEST IN THAT CLASS?
WHATS THE DEINITION OF ELECTRONIC CONTROLLERS?

Offline zrxdean

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2005, 11:17:34 PM »
Todd's 8.23 @ 178 was the quickest and fastest, as far as I know. He rides Chris Jones' bike. 

The rules don't specify, it just states that electronic boost controllers are not allowed. I'm guessing that means a solid state box that controls solenoids. Maybe a button 2-stage would be legal?

Dean

THEMOTORHEAD

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2005, 11:21:47 PM »
YA I WAS WONDERING IF MANUAL CONTROLLER WAS ALLOWED

Offline Indy 1397

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2005, 07:52:23 AM »
I have sent 2 e-mails to Dean and Scooter and No responce

I only asked for a 2 stage controller ( the wastegate + 1 additional stage) triggered by button in the gear of my choice.

Then if we (turbo's) start to run away change the rules to even it out.

Hell when I talked to Dean last year (before I bought the NLR kit) he was going to allow ice to ice cooler and no electronic boost controllers. But said I could use the Mechanical one that NLR sold!!

Now I have a 500hp kit that I can't use with out by-passing the intercooler and only using 300 - 350 hp

Hell I was running close to 300hp last year, and getting my a@@ drug by Darren, I was having chassis and 60' problems...

My best was a 8.86 to Darren's 8.40's
formerly - Indy Turbo Busa

THEMOTORHEAD

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2005, 08:19:46 AM »
YOUR TURBO IS ALSO ILLEGAL
AS ITS NOT 54MM WHEEL BUT THE UPENING AT WHEEL
SO YOU'LL NEED 50-52 MM WHEEL
YERS IS 54 MM

Offline Indy 1397

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2005, 10:27:14 AM »
I thought the KKK 27K was 54 MM, that's what it measures at the wheel
formerly - Indy Turbo Busa

THEMOTORHEAD

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2005, 10:53:19 AM »
54 meaning 54 mm wheel
i took rules as 54 mm hole where whel meets housing

Offline Indy 1397

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2005, 10:55:07 AM »
So what size is mine then??
formerly - Indy Turbo Busa

THEMOTORHEAD

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2005, 03:52:46 PM »
54

Offline zrxdean

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Re: Super Street 2006 rules
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2005, 05:27:51 PM »
I got a detailed response from Scooter, they have thought about this quite a bit. He OK'd me posting this for all. -Dean


"Dear Super Street Competitors,

First, before we start talking specific rules, I want to say thank you for participating in the class up to this point.  Our goal is to have a class that will be around for a long time and hopefully have 20-30 bike fields.  I personally see this class replacing Pro Street in the near future depending on how successful NOPI is with their bike counts.

Comments have been made as to how bad the bike count has been this season.  I think there are several reasons for this.  A, it is an exhibition class only.  In the beginning we only scheduled it at a few races.  Later, we were convinced by the participants that since it’s only exhibition and not an increase to the purse, to run it at all races.  B, I also personally think that having turbos in the rules kept a lot of nitrous guys away, seeing what has happened to Pro Street.

We do not want to repeat the mistakes we have made in Pro Street.  Some of those mistakes were allowing body and chassis modifications and letting the turbos have too many advantages.  You can see the performance today and that is without exotic ice intercoolers, nitrous, etc.  We should have kept control of the rules back then.  If so, we would still enjoy 30 bike entries.  In 2000, we averaged 33 Pro Street (SBS) bike each event.  All but four were nitrous bikes.  Last year as we failed to control turbos our average went done to 19 bikes.  This year we only averaged 14 and all turbos.  The future is not looking good for them.

In 2006 Super Street will be an exhibition class again, but we are asking contingency sponsors to post contingencies.  Kawasaki has already posted $1,000 to win and $500 Runner-up.  I’m confident that Suzuki will follow their lead.  My plans are to have this a full points and AMA championship class in 2007.  We have found it more successful to test new classes as exhibition until the class bike count can support turning it into a permanent class.

Now for specific class rule concerns.  There has been mention to allow boost control for turbos and allow nitrous bikes 68”.  Different wheelbases will not happen, another classic mistake in P/ST.  If the class does not remain stock looking, it’s no longer a streetbike and the factories will never support it.  64” will be unchangeable.

In regards to mechanical boost control.  The only mechanical boost control is a waste gate.  In the old days, boost controls used to have an bleeder valve with jet cans that control pneumatics.  Basically, if somebody comes up with a controller that does not have an electric wire going to it, we accept that.  It is a process that is tuned not automatically controlled.  You are welcome to have boost control as long as it is done with plumbing and jets, no wires.

In regards to progressive nitrous, it still has to be tuned.  I’m the guy who convinced NOS to design progressive nitrous for motorcycles a dozen years ago, it’s a safety issue.  You can’t allow 100 hp being thrown to the rear tire at the push of a button. 

It was mentioned by one competitor that they have purchased a 500hp turbo and have an intercooler.  That’s a Pro Streetbike.  How would that be fair in Super Street?  Please understand we are not trying to pick on turbo guys, we are just trying to keep the class competitive for both nitrous and turbos.  Look at the results of the World Finals with Chris Jones’ bike.  8.23 @ 178mph.  This was only their first race.  Explain to me how allowing a combination that has a 2/10th and 13mph advantage is best for the class.  I’m sure by the third race of the season we would be looking at a seven second bike at 180mph.  These are guys who work hard, do their homework and test.  They will be competitive without an electronic controlled boost control.

I stand behind that we are making the right decisions for the class and I believe the turbo guys will be competitive with the rules and the class will grow and once and for all prove that there can be a class that both turbo bikes and nitrous bikes can win events.  The class will still end up a seven second / 180mph class, but not too soon.  If you trust and work towards these goals, this class will replace Pro Street and be far more popular than any class we have.

I have copied this message to Chris Jones, Darren Burnett, Dean Sabatinelli, John Johnson and Bryan Wagner, all of who have sent email regarding this class.  Please feel free to forward this message to anyone else interested in the class.

Thank you for your understanding of our position and we hope to see you all in Valdosta.

Best Regards,

Keith

Keith S. Kizer
President & CEO
AMA/Prostar
« Last Edit: December 02, 2005, 05:46:27 PM by zrxdean »