SuzukiHayabusa.org
TECHNICAL => ALL MOTOR TALK => Topic started by: entropy on July 09, 2007, 03:26:02 AM
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bikeland.org, zx12rzone.com, Hacking the Planet one ZX-12 ECU at a time
Using skillz & persistance and Enginuity sw. "ridgeracer" has successfully hacked into several versions of the ZX12's ECU.
After exposing the ECU's board & mounting a plug, he can view, modify and reflash the ECU's maps.
Got some testing to do, but this is REALLY a cool development.
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Where can I get more info ?
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Where can I get more info ?
go to website:
bikeland.org, (forums)
then click on:
zx12rzone.com,
the thread name is:
Hacking the Planet one ZX-12 ECU at a time
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Where can I get more info ?
Click here.
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=23797&set_time=1184107032 (http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=23797&set_time=1184107032)
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it would be nice if they could do this on the gsxr 1000's and busa.
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Maybe you could ? i sent this post to a mate that does this sort of stuff and he replied
"What he is doing is connecting to the JTag bus for the CPU, this allows you to access the internal flash that contains the maps."
There are programmes that allow reprogramming of some factory ecu's, just with the simplicity of plugging in a Powercommander it would be uneconomic to put a lot of time and effort into developing a system .
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Maybe you could ? i sent this post to a mate that does this sort of stuff and he replied
"What he is doing is connecting to the JTag bus for the CPU, this allows you to access the internal flash that contains the maps."
There are programmes that allow reprogramming of some factory ecu's, just with the simplicity of plugging in a Powercommander it would be uneconomic to put a lot of time and effort into developing a system .
Oz Booster
I haven't heard of ANY system which allows reprogramming of the 12, Busa or Kawi/Suz 1000's ECU with the exception of what Ridgeracer is doing right now with his project on the ZX12. If there is such a system, we'd sure like to know about it.
Yes indeed, a Powercommander can modify the fuel and ign by indvid cyl with USB + ign module at a cost of $600+ and a trunk full o' boxes & cables. Wouldn't it be cool to just plug into the ECU and do it that way??
BTW: The 12's ECU has 2 separate fuel and ign maps, and apparently only 1 is routinely used. Maybe use the 2nd set of maps for nitrous???
RR is now working on determining what exactly is the mechanism for the rev limiter; if he can crack that one, it is likely we can extend the limiter to whatever without modifying clock speed.
Very cool project, very cool indeed.
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Not Suz,Kaw(except for the race ecu) Yam or honda But Triumph,Harley,Ducati,Benelli are some, And many cars
Couple of examples
http://xtronics.com/memory/efi_ecu_faq.htm
http://www.tuneboy.com.au/Products/Products_Models.html
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It would also be nice to be able to have a extended Rev on the ZX-14,as on the Busa's??
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Not Suz,Kaw(except for the race ecu) Yam or honda But Triumph,Harley,Ducati,Benelli are some, And many cars
Couple of examples
http://xtronics.com/memory/efi_ecu_faq.htm
http://www.tuneboy.com.au/Products/Products_Models.html
WHOA!!
great stuff, wonder why Suz & Kwak were left out???
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ECU type and brand enthusiasm ,
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i had a triumph speed triple before i bought my busa and i tuned it with the tuneboy program. you plug your laptop right into tthe ecu and remap it, correct the speedo error, adjust ignition timing, adjust rev limiter, adjust idle and more. cost $400 for the program and cable. outstanding program
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Oz Booster
I haven't heard of ANY system which allows reprogramming of the 12, Busa or Kawi/Suz 1000's ECU with the exception of what Ridgeracer is doing right now with his project on the ZX12. If there is such a system, we'd sure like to know about it.
The Teka TFI manipulates the stock ECU on Suzukis and the settings are stored after removing the device so must only be in the ECU. You could argue this is "reprogramming"
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so does a yosh box.....but we are talking about a alot higher level of interogation here
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it would be nice if they could do this on the gsxr 1000's and busa.
[edit] Apparently PetriK already posted this. Guess I should of looked more before I did the duplicate post
Well, funny you should mention that...
This is a photo of a 32920-24FD0 ECU. It has the same port as the ZX-12
(http://www.bikeland.info/images/ecu/cam002.jpg)
I hooked it up and downloaded the code and maps using the same method that I use for the zx-12.
(http://www.bikeland.info/images/ecu/cam003.jpg)
I have identified the base maps and done a preliminary definition for the freeware map viewing / editing software from Enginuity.org Here are some examples.
Ignition Map http://www.bikeland.info/images/ecu/busamap001.jpg (http://www.bikeland.info/images/ecu/busamap001.jpg) I haven't figured out the formula to convert it to degrees BTDC, yet.
Base Fuel Map http://www.bikeland.info/images/ecu/busamap002.jpg (http://www.bikeland.info/images/ecu/busamap002.jpg)
Here is the map and definition file if you want to download the enginuity software and look at the maps yourself. I still have a way to go on the maps but the answer to the basic question of can it be reprogrammed like the ZX-12 seems to be yes.
http://www.bikeland.info/downloads/ecu/busa004.zip (http://www.bikeland.info/downloads/ecu/busa004.zip)
As for the GSXR-1000; Anyone have an older 16bit, broken, gixxer ecu laying in their garage collecting dust that you don't want anymore?
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So lets get in to the real business...
What if someone needs a bike that runs well over 200mph for a mile in next may with some help from NOS. What if someone is determined to achieve that with a Busa and without a powercommander and with some help from nitrous. For tuning that someone uses already innovate wbo and a datalogger hooked to various bike sensors ;-).
One easy way to achieve that is to lock the injectors full open for nitrous, but then its very low AFR in the beginning of the run with gas and running lean at the end of the run. The power is far from optimum and there is a risk to the engine without retarding the ignition as the run will be 15+ seconds on the gas.
I really hope that this project gets to the next stage where we can tune the new generation busa ecus with help of switchable maps. I am determined to give this stuff a more than a try if and when all of this becomes available for a Busa.
Btw. the real winners at this part of the world are those who can ride the same bike for the full the 300 mile journey to the airfield and also back. This year ... hmmm, 6 bikes of top 12 needed a truck to make the journey back. Most common reasong for a blown engine was melted internals due to electronics failure in fuel enrichment or alike circuits/connectors. Therefore running the original ecu with modified maps is a very tempting idea to minimize the failure points.
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Very cool and very clever RR.
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For boosted applications the software will need to be recoded.....2bar + compensation
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For boosted applications the software will need to be recoded.....2bar + compensation
Well the pressure map looks like it currently handles ambient pressures and less.
Anyhow rescaling to handle it for 3xambient pressures should be easy. The only thing that really is unresolved is that what is the mechanism when MAP pressure map is on and when the TPS map is on.
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from what i have read 5% throttle is the switch over point from MAP to tps , is this something you can adjust to have MAP all the time.
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Maybe... Intake air pressure... if tps < 5% invokes MAP then also intake air pressure > 1.1bar could be used for the same. In addition to change some control logic, that would require a different MAP sensor and recoding the MAP maps. Personally I see this option of having the OEM ECU for turbo use a way more reliable system than powercommander+extra boost injection box for turbos. Harness connector 60 is free and could be used for additional MAP sensor (unless they removed the electronic parts on later models) or possibly the ram air compensation function could be used for turbos when ram air maps are reprogrammed. Just hook the MAP sensor to gear position input and ramp up the ram air compensation accordingly... What does Ridgeracer say to this ? Based on the experience of debugging kawi, how easy would it be to modify the busa ecu program for turbo use ?
Btw, do you guys know any low cost source for a new generation (2004-2007) ECU's. Currently only 1999-2001 is on the table and need a couple of new generation ecus...
Also donations of damaged ECU's would be perfect, at least one of those will be literally opened:
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/ECU/ECU_BUSA_1999.jpg)
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The short answer is you can do it, but it won't be easy.
On the hardware side if you change the IAP (inlet air pressure) sensor you will need to also replace the SAP (static air pressure) sensor. Both need to have the same voltage to pressure output. One of the first things the software does is subtract the SAP from the IAP to establish absolute pressure. You can't be comparing apples and oranges.
On the software side it may be more involved than just tweaking the maps. The variables are limited to 16 bit numbers meaning 0-65,535 or -32,767 to + 32,767. (I've seen no evidence yet of any floating point math taking place) So if the current formula is ranged around -32,767 being vacum or -1 atmosphere and 0 being 1 atmosphere or ambient which makes 32,767 2 atmosphere. That would make 3 atmosphere out of range of a 16 bit variable. That means you would have to go through the code and rescale all the related variables. It would mean rewriting, and worse, recompiling the code.
Imagine you've just been handed a thousand page manuscript on paper, you don't have the word processor file. You boss wants you to go through it and change a character's name from Fred to Mike. While that would be a pain you could still do it without retyping the entire thing. Just whiteout Fred and type in Mike. They are both four characters long. This is also easy to do in the ECU software, replace one byte of code/data with a different byte of code/data. If the software says compare something to 6 I can change it to 3.
But what if your boss wants you to change the characters name to Helen? Helen doesn't fit in place of Fred. Not only that Helen is female and now you have to find every reference to 'he' and change it so 'she' etc. That is what you are asking when you want to go to 3 atmospheres. Not impossible, but not in the same league as just tweaking some map numbers.
To continue the analogy; without the original Word file (source code) you will have to retype (compile) the entire manuscript by hand. The obvious answer would be to scan the manuscript and create a new word file (disassemble the code and create a new assembly source code. ) Easier than doing it by hand but still time consuming.
The IDApro software we are using to disassemble the code should allow us to do this, in theory, but I haven't tried it yet.
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:lol: Ok thats why i work on the hardware and let someone else do the software .
I hear Tuneboy and you have been in contact (Petrick too ? ), i am sending Wayne my 01 ecu to compare code to his 16 bit processor.
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OK guys, anyone with knowledge about Renesas/Hitachi AUD interface for SH7052 aka e8a http://www.renesas.com/e8a ?
The 32Bit Busa ECU "programming connector" looks just like that interface.
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/ECU/Busa32BitECU.jpg)
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Having now opened the 32bit busa ecu (2004-2007) I can confirm that the processor is SH7052 running with 10Mhz xtal. This thing means that the procesessor memory can be reprogrammed, i.e. you can modify things like fuel, ignition, ram air compensation and throttle enrichment maps and set rpm limits directly to processor memory. Programming the maps into processor memory is beneficial compared to powercommander and alikes as you can modify not only TPS based maps but also Vacuum based maps which means that its easier to make a bike streetable.
This particular processor can be programmed throught he AUD connector at the back of the board or using serial protocol. If we are lucky the Serial TXD and RXD signals on the ECU Harness Connecto are connected so that those could be used for reprogramming without notching the ecu - even though notching an ecu is very easy. Anyway there is still a lot to be done to accomplish the same as the ZX12 guys already are trialling with programming their ecus with very promising results.
This is what Busa 32BIT ecu (32920-24FK0) looks inside
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/ECU/Busa32bitPCB.jpg)
ps. For you guys with older 16bit ecus, you are lucky as all you need to start reprogramming your ecus already exists. (links to software, hardware and instructions are on RidgeRacers site).
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Where is this RidgeRacers site? Thanks for the info so far.
Mark
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Here are the two most informative links where the original information resides. Please note that for all practical purposes older generation busa ecus (1999-2002) is basically same as zx12r and newer generation 2004-2007 is same as zx6r amd zx10r.
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=99460&p=1 (http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=99460&p=1)
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=23797&set_time=1193495438 (http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=23797&set_time=1193495438)
Having spent a couple of hours with the newer generation 32bit ecu from 2006 busa I have today found that the newer genration ecu is most likely programmable from the harness connector without notching it. Anyway as you can see from the thread from bikeland.org RidgeRacer has been working on this for more than a year, so all the credits should go to him on putting the time and effort for enabling this.
EDIT - some of you guys might appreciate this ECU Harness Connector pinout:
http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/ECU/Busa32bitECU_harness_connector.mht (http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/ECU/Busa32bitECU_harness_connector.mht)
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Really great work you 2 guys are doing..hope to hear more progress :thumb:
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i have a fried 99-00 ecu if needed :thumb:
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i have a fried 99-00 ecu if needed :thumb:
Excellent - thanks. RR is working on BDM ecus (same as Kawi) so he has the primary interest on this.
The status on newer 32 bit ecus (up to 2007) is the following:
- We have traced that all the necessary programming signals are available on the harness connector (FWE, RES, MD1, Tx, Rx).
- Based on initial testing we come to think that the only way to program the flash is first to erase it and then to write full contents at once (needs to be verified in practise.
- Unfortunately looks like the flash memory can not be read from AUD connector due to copyright protection. (at least that is what they say on the renesas web site). Anyhow the processor can be set to EPROM emulation mode to read the content. To test that jumper wires directly to the processor pins must be installed.
- The same dissassembler that RR used for Kawi and Busa ecu support the SH-3/SH-4 which are downwards compatible with SH-2, i.e. the dissassembler supports the processor SH7052 language so it should be possible to dissassembe the contents to understand the programming sequence as well as internal logic.
If anyone has further interest here you are with picture of which pins must be connected for EPROM emulation mode
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/ECU/Busa32BitProcessor-1.jpg).
The rest is available on Renesas documents.
The effort from this point to make the programming available for everyone required is quite big so additional help from anyone would be really appreciated. The good thing is anyhow that once accomplished it should be very easy for anyone competent enough to do mapping also to flash the busa 32 bit ecu.
EDIT - Btw, RR has made instructions about how to notch a kawi ecu available. This is directly applicable also to 1999-2002 busa ecu, here is the link to an exellent and detailed document on the topic.
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=99460&p=3&topicID=14099111
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EDIT - Btw, RR has made instructions about how to notch a kawi ecu available. This is directly applicable also to 1999-2002 busa ecu, here is the link to an exellent and detailed document on the topic.
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=99460&p=3&topicID=14099111
2002 is not the same as the 99-00 or the 01 Busa ECU...
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Here some progress 0f the 32bit busa ECU project:
The downloading of maps or even full ecu software contents can be done using a self made single chip AUD interface. For programming the ecu, the serial line is propably easiest choise. The total cost depending on D.I.Y.parts chosen for a complete programming environment varies from 100 to 200usd depending on components.
For those of you who are interested in of joining and contributing to this kind of project, more information at:
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=99460&p=1
This is a sample of a map downloaded from K6 busa ecu, usa model.
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/ECU/busaK6usa_map_sample.JPG)
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I think that a picture that is from K6 USA model busa tells more than words. Special thanks for RidgeRacer for his support and skills on finding this kind of information.
Anyone interested, the limiters are hysteresis on/off values, ie. the high value shuts off and lower value turns again on the signals from ecu. Please also note for later use that there is another limit at around 11.350 which should not be exceeded without having a lot more values being changed too.
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/ECU/revlimiters.JPG)
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The project continues...
Yesterday I succesfully reprogrammed the K6USA ecu, so we can now claim that the 32 bit Busa ECU can be remapped for higher rev limiters or more accurate fuel or ignition mapping.
So we now have:
- orignial K6USA ecu code that can be modified on any personal computer
- Enginuity software to modify the rev limiters and maps from enginiyity.org
- Enginuity map definitions for rpm limiters done and maps defined but not yet named
- Renesas FDT reprogramming software available from www.renesas.com/fdt
- hardware schematics and parts list available from www.activeboard ecu hack forum
All the needed software is available free from internet. The required parts consists of one max232 chip, 6 capasitors three switches and some wiring etc. The total cost of making a reprogramming device for Busa K6 (32 bit ecu) is only around 10USD ;-) too good to be true ?
Additionally RR found a couple of days ago a subroutine that is a strong suspect for a map select switching, i.e. push button for the nitrous usage .
The project is next entering the test phase where we can validata that the theory works in practise ...
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You guys are awesome! The stock ECU is definitely the best choice for stand alone engine control I can't wait to see the results.
Mark
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Here you are, a reprogrammed Busa K6 ECU keeping the ignition and injection on up to 12000rpm (gauge rpm).
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/ECU/ProjectStatus_11.12.2007_s.jpg)
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Can just a small area of the ECU board be cleaned to install the programming plug? Do you think the rev limiter could be changed so that it would only kill spark? With the fuel cut limiter the engine gets leaned out. If only spark were cut it would be safe to bang the engine on the limiter on a engine with mods.
What did you use to simulate injector and spark coil loads when you tested your ECU?
12,000 rpms sounds like fun!,
Mark
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I am working on reading your posts and I answered the spark and injector questions.
With 24-1 / 1 the C11 errorcode disappeared. Now all I have is ignition codes C24-C27 which should be easy to tackle, maybe with 10uH coil with 10Ohm resistors. Now I have 10uH with Leds and 470 Ohm resistors.
I can just barely keep up with what you are talking about, it is a little over my head.
Mark
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Petrik...I am not yet a member of the active board so, I am posting here. You said this below:
Also the PAIR valve does not seem to get a signal from USA ecu (understandably) where as vacuum control valve signal is there <2500 gauge rpm.
I have an O4 model Busa and it had no wiring to the pair pump or on the assemblies. So, you are correct that it receives no signal. Also, you are correct the USA model does have a vacuum cntrol valve for the flapper in the airbox.
Mark
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Let me try to answer to all of your questions at once.
If the code has already been once uploaded from an ECU with similar typecode then you can use the harness connector to reprogram your ecu. There is a lot of interface products available on free market ranging from 20-200usd. At some point later I will make instructions avail to rewire the renesas e8 programmer to a such a device. That means literally just connecting some harness connector pins to the programmer. You can do that while the ecu is on the bike.
If your ECU has an ID number that has not yet been "opened", then a small area at the back of the ecu must be revealed for you or someone else to upload the prorgram for you. This is easy to do as dyi and also persons like RR do that as a service. To upload the ECU code you need a special hardware interface which costs again around 20Usd, but that is not (yet) publicly available as a consumer product. Anyhow building instructions are there on activeboard forum. At later stages someone should consider start building those devices.
There is both fuel and ignition cut limiters and yes you can set those individually. When exceeding the limiters usually both 2&3 injectors are cut out.
In the engine simulator for testing all the changes I am doing I use some small transformers 32Ohm to simulate the load for injectors and coils. A simple resistor does not fool the ecu to think that everything is ok. Also I learned that one coil for the injectors is not enoug, I need individual coils (which I still need to get for the injector side). The coils have both inductive load 10uH which means that it will release energy which ecu recognizes as a signal of deciding if the coil is good or not.
The 24-1/1 is the crankwheel signal. There is 24 tooth wheel where one tooth is missing, during that missing tooth the ecu receives the cam signal during every second cranksaft revolution.
Yep - its quite interesting to verify that some of the rumours presented on this board and other boards are true, where as some others are not. E.g. someone has claimed that the fuel shut off happens in cylinder 2, that is not true its both 2&3 when limiters are exceeded. Someone claimed that there is a separate ignition map for gear 5 and gear 6. That is not true (most likely) as all I have seen is that 5th&6th gear share maps where as there is a top speed limiter at around 10050 rpm. The vacuum control valve works from 0-2500rpm (gauge). When revvin the ecu on neutral gear it seems to miss the ignition at 4,6,8&10k points like Suzuki had deceided that otherwise the revs will go up too fast without load.
What is the model number on your K4 USA ecu ?
The ones I have opened and uploaded the code so far are:
32920-24FK0, 112100-1100
32920-24FG0, 112100-1070
It would be interesting to find out that how many ecus must be notched to get all the code variations out of the ecu and found out persons who are willing to start offering the notcing and code uploading service from Busa ECU:s. Whoever is interested I will help him/her to be able to start that.
Like said reprogramming is easy when code is available. Basically just purchase the E8 programmer from renesas, download the software from www.renesas.com/fdt and move the Yoshbox COS&COV wires in your harness to new places and hook the programmer to those and you are ready to go. (Obviously you loose the Yoshbox capability of your bike, but who cares with this stuff ;-) To do that you do not need any special skills. Quite contrary, it is as easy as any other remapping method used.
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Here are the numbers off of my 04 Busa
32920-24FKO
112100-1100
12V NEP074
Hope that helps
Mark
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Here are the numbers off of my 04 Busa
32920-24FKO
112100-1100
12V NEP074
Looks like that Suzuki has not changed the part numbers between 2004 - 2006 so its a very good change that the code I already downloaded works on this ecu by just acquiring either renesas e8 or alternatively any RS232 to TTL converter and some swithches. The e8 should cost around 100-150 usd where as a D.I.Y. kit would cost around 20USD. It all depends on how familiar you are with electronics to install a microchip MAX232, 5 capasitors and 3 switches + all required wiring.
Anyhow I recommend to perform a simple test on your ecu to check that all the required components are present to enable programming. All it requires is a digital multimeter to measure some resistor values. (we have learned in the past that in some ecus not all the components are installed).
Here is a link to the testing procedure:
http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/ECU/Busa32bitECU_programability_test.pdf
(Please forgive some typos, I have lost the original file somewhere).
So its starting to look good for being able to remap the Busa ECU's and starting to have things like dual maps (one for street one for nitrous) from the standard ecu by just remapping.
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Sounds good I will try to study this some more and see if I am up to it. I do have electronics experience but, mostly I work on industrial electric equipment.
Mark
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did the testing procedure everything is in line with your readings :thumb:
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I just finished my testing and the readings are in the ballpark of your readings.
:thumb: +1
Mark
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OK,I have emailed to you guys instructions how to get the Enginuity mapping tool up and running with the K6 usa binary image.
The same information will be published here on this board too as soon as the initial feedback and answers to any key questions is included.
ps. For those guys who are interested in modifying the earlier busa ECUs I would suggest to check out www.bikeland.info. Ridgeracer may be able to help you with those as it is very much alike to ZX12 earlier ECU.
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Has the '08 model ECU been hacked yet...?
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Has the '08 model ECU been hacked yet...?
I dont think that anyone is working on that one. The process starts when an eager 08+ owner dremels an ecu open so that all the circuits are visible and finds out what is the processor etc. inside it. During that process the ECU will most likely get damaged so that it can not anymore be reliably used on any bike. Anyhow consider it being a donation for a good cause...
Would you be willing to donate a 08+ ECU for being dremeled open ?
ps. I dont think there is enough easily available information to make it a smooth excersise. The 2004-2007 Busa ECU is good platform for hacking as its in addition to Busa the same is used also for SV1000, Z1000, ZX6... so there is accumulating amount of knowledge about it becoming available.
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My bike hasn't even arrived yet so I'll just have to wait for someone else to have a shot for now.
Any way to open the ECU without damaging it...?
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Here you are with a first sneakpeak of how Busa K5 and K6 models can be tweaked. To do that you need to have the ECU eprom contents which is in the BUSAK6USA.bin file. Then you need Enginuity software which you can download for free and as the last item you need the Enginuity definitions .xml file which defines the locations of various maps.
You can download the two files needed from here:
http://www.bikeland.info/petrik/Busa/BUSAK6USA.bin (http://www.bikeland.info/petrik/Busa/BUSAK6USA.bin) -> This is the actual eprom contents of K6Busa / USA model
http://www.bikeland.info/petrik/Busa/BUSAK5.xml (http://www.bikeland.info/petrik/Busa/BUSAK5.xml) -> This is the enginuity definitions file
Save both files with mouse right click and save as... to your own hard drive.
Enginuity map editor for you to download you can find from here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/enginuity/ (http://sourceforge.net/projects/enginuity/)
After installing the enginiuity you first need to make the BUSAK5.xml definition file as the active definition file. First add the BUSAK5.xml (ECU Definitions -> ECU Definitions manager -> ADD) to your active definitions file list. Then remove the other definition files from the list to avoid any confusion.
Then open the image, i.e. the BUSAK6USA.bin file. You do that by going to File -> Open image.
Now after some numbercrunching the computer is performing you should have on the left hand side a list of the maps visible for you. I will still work on making the maps more self explanatory, but even now with this very first version there is two interesting areas to look at:
1) RPM limiters that can be adjusted well above 12000rpm
2) MSon/MSoff marking on the map names, that means that you can have map switching functionality for you Busa. e.g. one for nitrous other for street.
Have fun...
ps. I will occasionally update new files to the above links when there is significant progress...
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Using Petrik's advice and info I have built the Rs232 converter. I got the parts from Digi-key electronics. The kit came in piece form and did not come with a board. Therefore, using a diagram call Max232ACPE I was able to assemble the board then power it with 3 AA alkalines to test it. Using Windows Hyperteminal set at COM1 serial I was able to get my typed letters repeated to me while the TX and RX connections were jumped together.
Here is a picture of the board and the diagram (http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh180/Busaquick/Ecu%20hack%20progress/Picture256.jpg)
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh180/Busaquick/Ecu%20hack%20progress/Picture257.jpg)
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Here is a photo of the Yosh plug Petrik has spoken of as it sits untouched from the factory. It is found under the passenger seat at the rear of the bike.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh180/Busaquick/Ecu%20hack%20progress/Picture254.jpg)
Mark
Hopefully, I will do some more work and see if I can program my computer and return the results.
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rr has done some cool work i have followed it for the past year or so. i am new here but been over there on the kawa side for years!
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JUST FINISH UPGRADING MY 01 FROM 16 BIT TO 32 BIT ECU.....FIRED IT UP IT RUN AND SOUNDS GOOD, INTERFACE IS READY JUST HAVE TO REPIN ECU....THEN I CAN FLASH IT......... :D :thumb:
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petrik can you confirm if theres a difference in the ignition advance curved at wide open throttle in each gear.I measured a tre,s torque output and it only made an improvement up to 10% throttle.If this is the case a tre is a waste of time for the drags.
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Busa2001 - looks like youre moving fast forward...
petrik can you confirm if theres a difference in the ignition advance curved at wide open throttle in each gear.I measured a tre,s torque output and it only made an improvement up to 10% throttle.If this is the case a tre is a waste of time for the drags.
Not every gear. There is two banks (inner/outer cylinders) and for those these maps:
Gear 1 map
Gear 2 Map
Gear 3,4 Map
Gear 5,6 Map
Clutch/Neutral Map
Additionally you can select a second set of maps with a switch, e.g. nitrous maps with less advance.
At WOT maps 1&2 are similiar and 3&4&5&6 are similiar at WOT. Anyhow there is a big difference in Gear 3,4 and Gear 5,6 maps when cruising (parth throttle).
I believe there is more tq to be gained at high RPM area by modifying the maps, depending on your tq curve & stuff...
You can also see this by yourself also by following these simple instructions to download the map editor and map files.
You can download the two files needed from here:
http://www.bikeland.info/petrik/Busa/BUSAK6USA.bin -> This is the actual eprom contents of K6Busa / USA model
http://www.bikeland.info/petrik/Busa/BUSAK5.xml -> This is the enginuity definitions file
Save both files with mouse right click and save as... to your own hard drive.
Enginuity map editor for you to download you can find from here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/enginuity/
After installing the enginiuity you first need to make the BUSAK5.xml definition file as the active definition file. First add the BUSAK5.xml (ECU Definitions -> ECU Definitions manager -> ADD) to your active definitions file list. Then remove the other definition files from the list to avoid any confusion.
Then open the image, i.e. the BUSAK6USA.bin file. You do that by going to File -> Open image.
Now after some numbercrunching the computer is performing you should have on the left hand side a list of the maps visible for you.
I will make the map and other variable namings more descriptive when more people is using the stuff. Also it is my intention to continue building the mapping software of my own to make some adjustments and particularly enginen logging more simplier.
Have fun...
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thanks alot.My only concern with modifying ignition is has anyone succesfully fitted a knock sensor to prevent detonation damaging the motor whilst finding optimum ignition curves.
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thanks alot.My only concern with modifying ignition is has anyone succesfully fitted a knock sensor to prevent detonation damaging the motor whilst finding optimum ignition curves.
Knock sensors are usually "tuned" for a certain type of knock and only work very low in the RPM band. I used to use a laptop and a microphone to detect any detonation with cars. With busa have not tried out the mic trick, but I hope that the Innovate DL-32 microphone logging featyre will become handy soon.
if you look at the usa ign curve on different gears its fairlly easy to detect where you could put more advance. Obviously also fuel needs to be set accordingly.
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well i successfully flash my ecu today..remove the six gear limiter...and increase the red line a little... :D :thumb:
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well i successfully flash my ecu today..remove the six gear limiter...and increase the red line a little... :D :thumb:
Well done !
Any plans to utilize the dual maps, e.g. one for street second for track with way aggressive ignition and optimized fuel. Street fuel is more about keeping the consumption down ? Its pin12 on harness to which you put the map select switch, just ground it when you want the ms_off.
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well i successfully flash my ecu today..remove the six gear limiter...and increase the red line a little... :D :thumb:
Well done !
Any plans to utilize the dual maps, e.g. one for street second for track with way aggressive ignition and optimized fuel. Street fuel is more about keeping the consumption down ? Its pin12 on harness to which you put the map select switch, just ground it when you want the ms_off.
yes that's next but i'm still learning the fuel maps...and the ignition maps...trying to be careful as i'm running a turbo, you mean pin 21 for map select right and not 12.....
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Yep, pin 21 - sometimes my fingers type characters in wrong order. Have noticed the same with some others too...
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hi petrik i have flash the stock ecu, do you have any ideas on how to improve the cold start, it sucks when you try to start it on a cold day it cranks over and over before it fires....but when it's warm it works like a champ... :thumb: motor is low compression 8:1 JE turbo pistons, carillo h-beam rods, 65lbs valve spring, stock cams 105/107, high volume oil pump gear, i don't run a power commander..and battery is always fully charge
B/W thank for sharing the info on the stock ecu i'm very impress with the stock ECU'S ability...
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hi petrik i have flash the stock ecu, do you have any ideas on how to improve the cold start, it sucks when you try to start it on a cold day it cranks over and over before it fires....but when it's warm it works like a champ... :thumb: motor is low compression 8:1 JE turbo pistons, carillo h-beam rods, 65lbs valve spring, stock cams 105/107, high volume oil pump gear, i don't run a power commander..and battery is always fully charge
B/W thank for sharing the info on the stock ecu i'm very impress with the stock ECU'S ability...
A good question. Spent today a good few hours in investigating the coolant temperature effect to the fuel mix. In general the effect of coolant seems to be very small compared to any other sensor. The coolant has much more effect to the ignition timing.
The fuel delivery is basically calculated with the following formula:
(air_temp_map+0x180) * water_temp_map* ambient_pressure_map * TPS_pulsewidth_map * RPM_pulsewidth_map * TPS_opening_change_map * (Fuel_map * injflow_parameter) + (opening_time_map*Voltage_compensation_map)
That should help anyone doing ecu tuning in understanding how different parameters affect the fuel flow. Regarding cold starts a couple of parameters to be named:
injflow_parameter is the 1 / injector size. So if you have increased fuel pressure of have a regulator for turbo that adjusts according to the pressure it may deliver less fuel than expected when at vacuum. So changing the inector size bigger, i.e. reducing the inj_flow paramete A and B should increase the overall fuel flow.
If you have a turbo its possible that the intake air pressure calculated fuel delivery may not reflect the true need of your engine. Therefore the best bet would be tuning the fuel maps (IAP maps), particularly the neutral/cluch on maps for cranking area should be noted. My personal first bet would be to check out the idle maps, maybe even with an old yoshbox. That has helped us here locally to smoothen a few turbo bikes which otherwise have suffered from non smooth idling. For other than idle area I can not recommend yoshbox to be used.
Of course also water temp maps play role, but like said I have not been able to generate a significant difference to the fuel amount when testing with different coolant sensor values. It looks like the coolant sensor value is more affecting to the ignition than fuel.
As you propably know, when the ecu is turned on it squirts a good amount of fuel to the engine. You can e.g. turn kill switch on/off for several times to pump fuel into the engine just to test if its lack of the fuel that prevents starting.
Logging the data parameters during cold start should help in resolving what parameter to change. I dont know if you have tried the software I wrote, but that should be easy to use and log the engine data in this kind of situations. Its only two wires to hook into the ECU harness and you have full engine logging capability for trouble finding and tuning... I would start this by using it and comparing the data with results when actually running the engine to find what are the key differences.
Hope this helps...
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OK! I'M GOING TO TRY THE DATA LOGGING FEATURE, AND SEE WHATS HAPPENING ..... :thumb:
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The data logging is somewhat picky on both operating system (windows xp tested only) and hardware (only external usb to rs232/TTL modules tested).
EDIT - forgot that if you dont have Innovate wide band sensor or other products, which I highly recommend - you may need to install Innovate logworks/sdk with the current version of the software.
You can find the SDK from the bottom of this page:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support.php
Maybe in the future I will make the innovate as a separate program to benefit those who have e.g. LC-1 and keep this simple freeware version without innovate support to simplify installation. If you could kindly try again after installing SDK. Sorry about inconvenience.
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ok that took care of the error message i was getting... :D :thumb: will test it and report back with results.....
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Btw. as written on the other thread: To synchronize to the datastream you need to turn the power off and on on the bike. I.e. resetting the ecu will allow the program to synchronize. If at any later stage you get a message "synchronizing", its time to restart the bike (power off, power on).
Alternatively "synchronizing" may mean that the interface is not compatible and does not support the data communications speed (baudrate), but with latest version of the software it should detect non compatible interfaces quite well.
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Btw. as written on the other thread: To synchronize to the datastream you need to turn the power off and on on the bike. I.e. resetting the ecu will allow the program to synchronize. If at any later stage you get a message "synchronizing", its time to restart the bike (power off, power on).
Alternatively "synchronizing" may mean that the interface is not compatible and does not support the data communications speed (baudrate), but with latest version of the software it should detect non compatible interfaces quite well.
i tried resetting the ecu but it's still trying to synchronize, is there a way to change the baudrate of the usb ttl converter port?
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i tried resetting the ecu but it's still trying to synchronize, is there a way to change the baudrate of the usb ttl converter port?
Its likely a different interface/version you use or a wiring mistake/problem. Its also possible that there is an issue with signal levels in which case it will take a good few days to come up with a solution. The baudrate (the speed that the software communicates with ECU) is set automatically within software. I have tested this with 2 ecus and 2 different computers and all works fine, but obvioulsly that is not very comprehensive testing. Anyway we are still in early stages. All this is very new, its less than 2 months since the ECU progtocol was first time understood and this early there will be some issues.
Lets try to pinpoint where the problem lies:
1) What is the interface you use ? Exact link in internet or a very descriptive text ?
2) How is that connected ? Which wires are connected and how is the ground signal provided ?
When the software is in next stage I will write detailed instructions "how to" connect and troubleshoot problems. This discussion helps writing a document that helps others to resolve alike problems.
The reason I am asking you to use the software is to find a root cause of your cold start problems. The software will show us the injector pulse, tps position, intake vacuum sensor values and even ignition advance from the ECU. This means that we can see if any of the sensors give faultry readings or if there is a problem with flashed contents with incorrectly set values when coldstarting. I know from DaveO that several persons have done a troublefree upgrade from 16bit ECUs from to 32bit so there is something in the setup. Unfortunately there has been a delay in the interface shipment (should receive end of this week) so I have not been able to validate interfaces to work in high volumes (i.e. more than 2) and send those out for other persons to be tested. In USA DaveO will receive the first units for local testing.
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i tried resetting the ecu but it's still trying to synchronize, is there a way to change the baudrate of the usb ttl converter port?
Its likely a different interface/version you use or a wiring mistake/problem. Its also possible that there is an issue with signal levels in which case it will take a good few days to come up with a solution. The baudrate (the speed that the software communicates with ECU) is set automatically within software. I have tested this with 2 ecus and 2 different computers and all works fine, but obvioulsly that is not very comprehensive testing. Anyway we are still in early stages. All this is very new, its less than 2 months since the ECU progtocol was first time understood and this early there will be some issues.
Lets try to pinpoint where the problem lies:
1) What is the interface you use ? Exact link in internet or a very descriptive text ?
2) How is that connected ? Which wires are connected and how is the ground signal provided ?
When the software is in next stage I will write detailed instructions "how to" connect and troubleshoot problems. This discussion helps writing a document that helps others to resolve alike problems.
The reason I am asking you to use the software is to find a root cause of your cold start problems. The software will show us the injector pulse, tps position, intake vacuum sensor values and even ignition advance from the ECU. This means that we can see if any of the sensors give faultry readings or if there is a problem with flashed contents with incorrectly set values when coldstarting. I know from DaveO that several persons have done a troublefree upgrade from 16bit ECUs from to 32bit so there is something in the setup. Unfortunately there has been a delay in the interface shipment (should receive end of this week) so I have not been able to validate interfaces to work in high volumes (i.e. more than 2) and send those out for other persons to be tested. In USA DaveO will receive the first units for local testing.
i'm using this one, it receives power from the usb port....
http://www.superdroidrobots.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=795
i tap into the black/green wire at ecu...pin 33 data stream wire...
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OK - its like this then should be good:
Interface -> ECU
Green + Yellow -> greenblack
Black -> blackwhite
When you have the software running and saying "Synchronizing" and the interface is connected does the gauge cluster on bike say "CHECK" and the temp gauge go up to red ? It should do so...
If you get check I will need to check the voltage levels when I get more interfaces at the end of this week. It is possible that the USB interface Tx/Rx (Green/Yellow) interfere with the base voltage from the ECU - I.e. both giving +5V TTL level signal to the gauge data wire. Happened to me with one interface. Should be fairly easy to fix with an additional resistor.
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OK - its like this then should be good:
Interface -> ECU
Green + Yellow -> greenblack
Black -> blackwhite
When you have the software running and saying "Synchronizing" and the interface is connected does the gauge cluster on bike say "CHECK" and the temp gauge go up to red ? It should do so...
If you get check I will need to check the voltage levels when I get more interfaces at the end of this week. It is possible that the USB interface Tx/Rx (Green/Yellow) interfere with the base voltage from the ECU - I.e. both giving +5V TTL level signal to the gauge data wire. Happened to me with one interface. Should be fairly easy to fix with an additional resistor.
yes the gauge cluster say "CHECK" and the temp gauge goes to red... :thumb: but still just trying to synchroniz.... :?
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That is partially very good news - tells the cause of the problem. It is either a baud rate or a signal level problem. The chip in your interface is FDTI so it should support the 7812 baud rate straight out of the box - so I suspect the later. Signal level problem is most likely caused the fact that both the interface you have and the ECU try both to push +5V to the line. I saw this happening when I used an external processor card to send data to the gaugecluster. Basically the TX pin from the USB TTL interface should only ground the signal, not push +5V back to the ECU.
If you can spare for a few more additional days after I have received the USB TTL interfaces I can dig deeper into this. Currently I have only RS232 level interfaces with additional MAX232 TTL converters at hand which use the +5V from ECU. Those work just perfectly which of course does not help you ...
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That is partially very good news - tells the cause of the problem. It is either a baud rate or a signal level problem. The chip in your interface is FDTI so it should support the 7812 baud rate straight out of the box - so I suspect the later. Signal level problem is most likely caused the fact that both the interface you have and the ECU try both to push +5V to the line. I saw this happening when I used an external processor card to send data to the gaugecluster. Basically the TX pin from the USB TTL interface should only ground the signal, not push +5V back to the ECU.
If you can spare for a few more additional days after I have received the USB TTL interfaces I can dig deeper into this. Currently I have only RS232 level interfaces with additional MAX232 TTL converters at hand which use the +5V from ECU. Those work just perfectly which of course does not help you ...
no problem. :thumb: keep me posted.
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That is partially very good news - tells the cause of the problem. It is either a baud rate or a signal level problem. The chip in your interface is FDTI so it should support the 7812 baud rate straight out of the box - so I suspect the later. Signal level problem is most likely caused the fact that both the interface you have and the ECU try both to push +5V to the line. I saw this happening when I used an external processor card to send data to the gaugecluster. Basically the TX pin from the USB TTL interface should only ground the signal, not push +5V back to the ECU.
If you can spare for a few more additional days after I have received the USB TTL interfaces I can dig deeper into this. Currently I have only RS232 level interfaces with additional MAX232 TTL converters at hand which use the +5V from ECU. Those work just perfectly which of course does not help you ...
do you have a link to the interface you're using..
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Got the first samples. Connected two wires to to the engine data green/black wire and one wire to ground. Connected the USB connector to my PC and started the program. Fired up the power on ECU and got immediate "Datastream active...". No voltage level problems. The interface I got are very alike to what you have - not exactly the same, but very close.
The correct process for starting the program is:
1) Turn on laptop
2) Connect interface to the laptop
3) Start Engine data monitor program
4) Press "Connect ecu for engine data"
5) Press "Data on"
you should see "Synchronizing..."
6) Turn power on in the bike
you should see "Datastream active..." and bike gauge should say "CHECK"
If at any moment you see "Synchronizing..." on the program window you need to turn the power off on the bike either from the key or with the kill switch and then back on.
I will give couple of these interfaces to my local friends over here to test if there is something which I have done on my laptop which I dont recognize. Then will send a couple of interfaces to DaveO for testing too. If I get positive reports that everything works then I will put effort into finalizing the software for everyone to use. There is over 70 different variables that we can choose to display including TPS, Intake Air Pressure, Intake temperature, Ignition advance, fuel injector pulse, coolant temperature ... something I only few months back dreamed of being able to track for tuning purposes. Btw the software is written with Visual Basic 2005 so it should also work on Pocket PC too if someone thinks that carrying a laptop is a bit inconvenient ...
(http://www.bikeland.info/petrik/images/datastream_innovate.JPG)
About the earlier interface, you asked what am I using, well the desk looks like this right now - but, the coming interfaces are just straight USB cable looking things. Very simple to connect and use...
(http://www.bikeland.info/petrik/images/desktop_13.3.2008.jpg)
This is very close what the coming interfaces will look like. Obviously there are wires to connect, but only two wires to be tapped on ecu harness.
(http://www.bikeland.info/petrik/images/ftdichip.jpg)
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Got the first samples. Connected two wires to to the engine data green/black wire and one wire to ground. Connected the USB connector to my PC and started the program. Fired up the power on ECU and got immediate "Datastream active...". No voltage level problems. The interface I got are very alike to what you have - not exactly the same, but very close.
The correct process for starting the program is:
1) Turn on laptop
2) Connect interface to the laptop
3) Start Engine data monitor program
4) Press "Connect ecu for engine data"
5) Press "Data on"
you should see "Synchronizing..."
6) Turn power on in the bike
you should see "Datastream active..." and bike gauge should say "CHECK"
If at any moment you see "Synchronizing..." on the program window you need to turn the power off on the bike either from the key or with the kill switch and then back on.
I will give couple of these interfaces to my local friends over here to test if there is something which I have done on my laptop which I dont recognize. Then will send a couple of interfaces to DaveO for testing too. If I get positive reports that everything works then I will put effort into finalizing the software for everyone to use. There is over 70 different variables that we can choose to display including TPS, Intake Air Pressure, Intake temperature, Ignition advance, fuel injector pulse, coolant temperature ... something I only few months back dreamed of being able to track for tuning purposes. Btw the software is written with Visual Basic 2005 so it should also work on Pocket PC too if someone thinks that carrying a laptop is a bit inconvenient ...
(http://www.bikeland.info/petrik/images/datastream_innovate.JPG)
About the earlier interface, you asked what am I using, well the desk looks like this right now - but, the coming interfaces are just straight USB cable looking things. Very simple to connect and use...
(http://www.bikeland.info/petrik/images/desktop_13.3.2008.jpg)
This is very close what the coming interfaces will look like. Obviously there are wires to connect, but only two wires to be tapped on ecu harness.
(http://www.bikeland.info/petrik/images/ftdichip.jpg)
OK! petrik for hell of it i installed my 01 ecu back on the bike and it went from synchronizing to active, but i could not start the bike since i got the 32 bit magneto installed....at lease now i know that the 16 bit 01 will log not sure if the 99-00 has the datastream wire...now my question, is there any difference in the 01 wiring harness compared to the 02 and up...I'm asking because I'm using an 01 harness with and 06 ecu and 32 bit magneto... :( :?
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That is partially again good news again - sounds like there is something wrong with your K6 ecu or with the installation of your K6 ecu. The datastream should work well even if only the power,gnd and anthitheft are connected.
There is some differences in 99 ecu harness connectors and K6 ecu harness connector. I do not know the differences in wiring harness as none of the manuals lists the pins to which the wires are connected. One thing I do remember, the pin 14 is in earlier ecus +12V and in 32bit ecus +5V relatead. But I am unsure if that pin is connected in the harness.
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I have swapped 01 and 02 ecu's and rotors on my 2 bikes several times without changing looms
Been going to ask .. does the old extended ecu mod change the communication rate ?
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Been going to ask .. does the old extended ecu mod change the communication rate ?
:thumb:
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Busa2001,
"OK! petrik for hell of it i installed my 01 ecu back on the bike and it went from synchronizing to active, but i could not start the bike since i got the 32 bit magneto installed....at lease now i know that the 16 bit 01 will log not sure if the 99-00 has the datastream wire...now my question, is there any difference in the 01 wiring harness compared to the 02 and up...I'm asking because I'm using an 01 harness with and 06 ecu and 32 bit magneto... "
The 01/02 are the same part number. I am using an 01 harness to test/develop all of our reflash "maps" woth no issues....I have not tried the "loggin" feature you are playn with....
Dave
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Busa2001,
"OK! petrik for hell of it i installed my 01 ecu back on the bike and it went from synchronizing to active, but i could not start the bike since i got the 32 bit magneto installed....at lease now i know that the 16 bit 01 will log not sure if the 99-00 has the datastream wire...now my question, is there any difference in the 01 wiring harness compared to the 02 and up...I'm asking because I'm using an 01 harness with and 06 ecu and 32 bit magneto... "
The 01/02 are the same part number. I am using an 01 harness to test/develop all of our reflash "maps" woth no issues....I have not tried the "loggin" feature you are playn with....
Dave
thank Dave :lol: was waiting for your input....think i might know what the problem is...will check it out later and report back...
B/W Dave i think you were right about the ecu been flash i got a new one yesterday and it fired right up...thanks :D :thumb:
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We tested the interface and software today on another bike. Connected the two wires, downloaded the software from internet, installed the USB drivers. Then started the software and it syncrhonized immediately when we turned the bike on.
For us in Europe with oxygen sensors this is interesting opportunity as we can log the factory values like RPM, TPS, Temperature, Oxy sensor, Ign advance etc. directly on our laptop and play back on the screen. The bike owner was really surprised after seeing how simple the thing is just after connecting 2 wires to the ecu harness.
One fault in the software thoug - this bike revs up to 12.500 and I had scale on sw only up to 12.000. We updated the sw for 14.000 and its ok now.
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We tested the interface and software today on another bike. Connected the two wires, downloaded the software from internet, installed the USB drivers. Then started the software and it syncrhonized immediately when we turned the bike on.
For us in Europe with oxygen sensors this is interesting opportunity as we can log the factory values like RPM, TPS, Temperature, Oxy sensor, Ign advance etc. directly on our laptop and play back on the screen. The bike owner was really surprised after seeing how simple the thing is just after connecting 2 wires to the ecu harness.
One fault in the software thoug - this bike revs up to 12.500 and I had scale on sw only up to 12.000. We updated the sw for 14.000 and its ok now.
great job!!
so just a quick qn, the tapping of 2 wires only allows for logging of the factory values only right? the flashing of the ECU is another set of connections altogether right?
is the logging function available for the 16bit ECUs?
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Yes, flashing is a different story. Requires some soldering skills and a lot of knowledge how the bike works. If you want to get your ecu flashed for a different rpm or map, DaveO can do this for you.
Also getting rid of the FI light is possible with flashing. Basically what you do is that you raise your fuel pressure (e.g. by modifying the oem regulator) and then adjust the internal injector size parameters within ecu for a new fuel pressure. Interestingly though inside ECU there is two injector size parameters. A for 1 cylidener and B for 3 cylinders.
On some 16bit ecus this should work, but needs to be connected differently. All my work really is done for 32bit european models. In usa DaveO is working on the US models and has done a lot of testing with that. There is quite many differences between US and EU models, because in EU we have the oxygen sensor as oem equipment and hence software inside ecu is very different for EU.
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Did I miss where you indicated which two wire harness pins your using for the logging.
I've scanned thru the thread several times and can't seem to find it.
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Welcome back RR. Missed your inputs.
Yep - you missed it, the instructions are very clear under the software thread below...
Rgds; PetriK
ps. Have not published the full protocol yet because looks like someone non USA has used the ecuhack info in commercial software without contacting either of us in advance. Makes me really doubtfull if to put any further info on the board right now.
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Busa2001,
The 01/02 are the same part number. I am using an 01 harness to test/develop all of our reflash "maps" woth no issues....I have not tried the "loggin" feature you are playn with....
Dave
Dave have you tried the loggin feature yet?
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Dave, anyone working on extending a ZX-14 ECU ????
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Dwight,
No not yet....No time right now...busy season. Lot goin on. Tx mile next weekend...then 2nd Prostar round tuning Brock/Woskas 08 SST turbo, then Maxton, Rockingham, etc etc etc ...then throw in reg 6 day work week....LOL
RRT,
The 14 ECU has no parts avail to uprev when I checked into.....dont know about software hacking....My demand for them is only dozen a year or so.....like the 10....sorry.
Maybe in the future..??
Dave
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While I obviously know a lot about this topic I never actually flashed a 32bit busa till the other day for the simple reason I haven't had one to play with. Well someone gave me one so I built a programing box. Now while the concept of simple 232-TTL converter is pretty basic the devil, as they say, is in the details.
In building my example I knew all the info I needed was out there on the net but I found it kind of disorganized so after I finished and tested my example I decided to pull all the needed information together into a single document.
http://www.bikeland.info/downloads/ecu/busa/232-ecu.pdf (http://www.bikeland.info/downloads/ecu/busa/232-ecu.pdf)
I detailed how to rewire the ECU connector to move the 'Yoshbox' (IDK) connector wires to the programing pins on the large ECU connector. Once that is done you can just plug the programming box right into the harness at the Yosh ( IDK) connector under the seat.
Also I show how to wire a cable that allows you to bench (out of bike) program an ECU.
The poor man's connection is taking the programming cable pigtail version, cutting off the Yosh (IDK) plug and, and splicing it into the wire harness.
I was going to start selling these at my website http://www.bikeland.info (http://www.bikeland.info) in the near future but now I think I'll wait and try out the USB-232-TTL stuff I have on order first see which one I think works the best. I didn't do a Bill of Materials yet. I will if some one wants to build one themselves. I will also publish a detailed instruction manual once I decide which way to go.
If any of you have any questions on how to build or use your own programming box feel free to contact me. Just remember I'm an electronics guy, not an engine tuner.
Here are some pics. I decided to go fancy and put a three color LED in mine. Green in normal/safe mode shows ECU has power, RED for programming mode, Blue for serial data that makes the LED flash between RED and PURPLE when the ECU and PC are talking to each other.
(http://www.bikeland.info/images/ecu/busa008.jpg)
Economy Version
(http://www.bikeland.info/images/ecu/busa011.jpg)
PRO Version
(http://www.bikeland.info/images/ecu/busa012.jpg)
(http://www.bikeland.info/images/ecu/busa009.jpg)
Shown here bench programming a -24FK0 ECU. The power supply at the lower left is the Field Programming Power Supply I sell for the 16 bit programming but any 12V 200mA power source would do.
Just add a laptop, some free software off the net and your ready to flash, at the shop, the track, or even out of the back of your pick up at the local Bike Nite hangout. :wink:
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nice work and well put togeather..... :D :thumb:
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nice work, i want one!thank you for you,petrik,and dave-o's hard work at making this possible for us racers!I definately want one as soon as you start selling them :thumb:
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Any word on hacking the 08 Gen-II yet....?
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Yep - the processor and some other details is known, but dont know anyone working on it yet. I am busy building the own bike so not putting much effort in developing new stuff. RR is active on some busa code, but thats older stuff too.
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finally spend a little more time on the logging feature, using Petrik's software and got it working today this would be nice to have when your bike is on the dyno... :D :thumb:
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nice work, i want one!thank you for you,petrik,and dave-o's hard work at making this possible for us racers!I definately want one as soon as you start selling them :thumb:
I think I saw a USB one for sale on ebay :wink:
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already been there :thumb:
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it was mentioned here that the busa has soft and hard limiters. Those soft limiteres wouldn,t start kicking in at 10600 before the hard 10800 would they?I noticed a marked leaning of the airfuel from over 10600.
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Depends where you would have set those to be if the ecu has been reflashed. For stock its about 200rpm before the hard limiter when the soft limiters hit by cutting the fuel for about 50% of the rev cycles - if I remember correctly. Its some time since I looked the code.
Anyway, think what this means if you turbo fuel computer is connected to an outer cylinder (cyl 1 or 4) to which the fuel cut first hits ;-)
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so i take it on a standard ecu you shift by 10600 if you don,t want to drop off power.I was running throught the traps at 10800(coil rpm) and it was dying.
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About so - I recall vaguely some differences also between US and EU models on how the settings are implemented. DaveO should know the exact values due to the testing effort he has but into US model ECUs.
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I figured out this weekend how to reflash the 05/06 GSXR1000 so everything discussed here should soon be possible on the GSXRs soon.
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A quick update on this topic...
During past month we have now reflashed the fuelmaps and extended limiters for following bikes:
- Busa 1298cc, piped
- Busa 1397cc
- Turbobusa (MC express)
The models have varied from K2 to K6.
The initial mapping of a completely new configuration takes about 2-3 hours. After having a rough map we can now have a complete fuelmap tune in less than 2 hours per bike. This flashing includes not only TPS maps but also remapping the vacuum (IAP) maps making the driveability of the bikes much better than with any other mapping method. Particularly for turbo bikes this has improved the road behaviour of bikes much more.
Of course also reflashing the limiters, tuning the ignitionmaps and particularly generating fuelmapping with a fixed ram air compensation have proven to be a very good concept in seeking the optimum tune for any of the bikes. We have now reached the point where the dynoshop is not anymore recommending using powercommander or alike piggybacks for hayabusas - they rather now offer this as a standard method of tuning a busa.
I think we have now reached a point where we can say that this works, maybe better than expected. Now its down to individual busa owners to start demanding better tuning capabilites from their dynoshops ...
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great work petrik,when will you test the a/b mode,because i am getting ready to tune for nitrous and need a different ign map?
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great work petrik,when will you test the a/b mode,because i am getting ready to tune for nitrous and need a different ign map?
That will be the next step. It involves a quite a few things anyhow ...
- Increasing fuel pressure by crunching the regulator by 0.9mm
- Reprogramming the ECU for increased fuel pressure so that no tuning of the maps is needed
- Verifying on the dyno the increased fuel pressure / ECU fuel pressure reprogramming so that no map changes are needed
- Wiring up a two switch relay to the flap control solenoid. Negative from ecu, positive from high beam flash button.
- Wiring A/B map switching signal from relay
- Wiring a nitrous solenoid to the relay
- Wiring a datalogger with AFR & EGT sensor (Innovate LC-1 and DL-32) for monitoring these key values
- Dynoing for optimum afr (11.5) by tuning the fuel map
- Dynoing for optimum egt (950F, if I rememer correctly, need to check the exact temp target) by tuning the ignition map
This will take a couple of weeks (or even more depending on free time) to implement. The next PSB race is in two weeks still involving quite a lot of things to be implement on race bikes. Dont know if I have time and dyno avail until after that.
Tomorrow it will be quartermile day just for fun... I mean testing the 1397 ;-)
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ok,good luck in testing,can i use a new .bin and create a new ign map using the editor? i have had good luck in flashing my ecu using enginuity and ftd.I have another computer that i can flash for nitrous until you can finish it.The only thing i had changed is removing soft cut and raiseing all gear related limitors,because of nitrous.I am using a wet nitrous setup,so i can change a/f with jetting.
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everytime i flashed my ecu i verifyed all my changes on a dynojet250i,i would post my dyno sheet,but we dragrace alot around here,i live ten minutes from dragstrip.
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A quick update on this topic...
During past month we have now reflashed the fuelmaps and extended limiters for following bikes:
- Busa 1298cc, piped
- Busa 1397cc
- Turbobusa (MC express)
The models have varied from K2 to K6.
The initial mapping of a completely new configuration takes about 2-3 hours. After having a rough map we can now have a complete fuelmap tune in less than 2 hours per bike. This flashing includes not only TPS maps but also remapping the vacuum (IAP) maps making the driveability of the bikes much better than with any other mapping method. Particularly for turbo bikes this has improved the road behaviour of bikes much more.
Of course also reflashing the limiters, tuning the ignitionmaps and particularly generating fuelmapping with a fixed ram air compensation have proven to be a very good concept in seeking the optimum tune for any of the bikes. We have now reached the point where the dynoshop is not anymore recommending using powercommander or alike piggybacks for hayabusas - they rather now offer this as a standard method of tuning a busa.
I think we have now reached a point where we can say that this works, maybe better than expected. Now its down to individual busa owners to start demanding better tuning capabilites from their dynoshops ...
did you have to pull any timing out for the turbo busa? how much?
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On this one as its a low power turbo (250hp) we did not do it, even the exh temps indicated that the bike would benefit from ignition mapping.
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8) 8)
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Map scaling and how final pulse widths are calced. I have been following this along and have a couple of questions that I could not find an answer to.With the busa ecu is the timing table 0 degree based in that a value of 32 is 32 degrees btdc? In the fuel tables what unit are the numbers such as 4200 is there an implied decimal point or is it in clock ticks that the injector drivers are being timed with for how long to activate the injector. IE if 4200 the injector is turned on and the software checks that at 4200 tick the injectors is deactivated in Siemens speak at cap/com type output. I am trying to get a handle on duty cycle and actual timing vs. table values. Lastly is it documented anywhere either partially or fully how the ecu works as in what table is an adder or multiplier to another to arrive at final timing and final injector pulse width. Last has anyone come up with a way to artificially simulate the crank and cam sensors and feed this into the ecu with all the other hooked up so a pulse width or timing might be data logged as if the bike was running, include various clutch switches gear position tps etc so the ecu thinks it is on a running bike? I have more than a little bit of embedded experience and would be glad to help a bit but don't want to duplicate what has been done to date all over again but add to what is not known.
Dave
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Most of your questions have been aswered in some postings I made at Ecuhack board:
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=99460&p=1
E.g. the fuel calculation algorithm is there. Also you can read between the lines that scaling is not needed as the inbuilt maps already have rpm and load ranges for most common purposes. The tables we tune are rather VE tables than actual millisecond opening times. There is too many other variables included for calculation. Anyway with e.g. ECUeditor software you can monitor almost any variable that allows you e.g. to estimate (calculate) the duty cycles.
For practical purposes we have a working tuning tool with map tracing capability, the ECUeditor. Currenly I am working on finding a way to implement fuel consumption gauge readings to match larger injector sizes. The ECUeditor can program bigger injectors but I suspect that the fuel consumption number on gauge goes down a bit too much.
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So botom line from all of this has anyone got a dyno chart showing how this style of tuning has picked up torque down low on a piped bike or a turbo one or picked up horsepower from equalising fuel and ignition maps for equal length stacks etc.I,ve noticed with my 16/42 gearing the air fuel does weird delayed enrichment in 5th gear confirming the ram air compensation is heavily dependant on rpm rather than actual air box pressure.Its believable as ive logged the map sensor results up to 135mph and it just pulses from the induction resonance and if anything reduces pressure.Suzuki doesn,t have a map sensor logging air box pressure just throttle body average resonance pressure.So perhaps keying in the numbers to correct for gearing would help.In regards to a fixed ram air compensation number wouldn,t that be like fitting a tre?I logged that and it just got leaner each gear,assuming the acceleration maps were richening it up in the lower gear a bit as well.I,m guessing here but going from standard mixed stacks to all shorts is likely to affect the map sensors affect on air fuel based on the fluctuations every 150rpm that i saw in a 5th gear rollon measuring at 10 samples per sec.
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yes - gear compensation is rpm dependant only -but you made an interesting point. If i have time i can make ecueditor to shift the gear compensation rpm range up and down for different gearing settings.
Then about the proof - i am writing from the summer house so dont have dyno logs with me, so you just need to take my word on this. Can dig out some graphs later.
Currently we are tuning a bike or two with ecueditor each week. Most often these are more than piped engines equipped with powercommanders. The users come to us because they have heard from the others how tuning the vacuum maps can improve the cruising throttle area driveability. As you know pc can only tune for tps/rpm so the cruising area is usually far from optimum. Particularly the turbos and 1397:s are benefitting from tuning the vacuum maps - the feedback from bike owners has been very positive about the changes we are making.
At peak power side we dont usually see so much improvement. A couple of ponies only because of being able to tweak the ignition maps. But with turbos and nitrous that is also an additional safety factor to keep the egt:s down.
When we tune bikes it takes anything between 20-50 dyno runs depending if we have a base map or if we need to start from scratch. What i do is using the load settings tune the vacuum map and each throttle position above 10%. Between those runs we see and feel the improvement of the bike behaviour. To make things easier i have considered to build a tuning link between ecu and innovate wbo - but dont have time for that right now as even without its a very straight forward excersise. For each bike we of course have the starting point dyno graph and end result dyno for each tps position.
The bikes have ranged from standard slipon busa to outlaw turbo with around 400rhph - and not to forget some around 250rwhp nitrous busas that we have tuned with A/B map switching feature.
Additionally the ability to adjust ignition, nitrous maps, fuel pressure/injector size and now even to calibrate the fuel consumption setting we are really only starting to understand how much inbuilt functionality the busa ecu has as a stock.
Hope this helps - digging out more hard facts can be done, but best results you get by trying out this stuff by yourself. I know that a couple of other local dyno stations are planning to get ecueditor and a cable too - as you know the software is free and the diy cable costs < 30usd.
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I,m in australia and tuneboy says they are close to being ready,will there software give me the flexibility of tuning ecueditor provides?I,m ready to try this as i have a spare 04 ecu on hand.For the tuning is any style of dyno better than the other for tuning the vacuum maps?The one i had in mind is a dj250i
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I,m in australia and tuneboy says they are close to being ready,will there software give me the flexibility of tuning ecueditor provides?I,m ready to try this as i have a spare 04 ecu on hand.For the tuning is any style of dyno better than the other for tuning the vacuum maps?The one i had in mind is a dj250i
i always tune the bike with dynomode on as it gives a flat gear compensation for dynoing. If you have gear compensation on then its possible that the bike is leaning out on lower gears.
Ah wayne - yes, after giving him some source code and other info he promised to send me tuneboy for testing - never heard him since. That information highway has been one way street so far. Having used tuneboy with one Triumph I dont really need that anymore - way too complex for dynoing a bike, unless the next version has some major improvements. But thats just my personal opinion and i am also biased as i write the free ecueditor software myself. For australia it may be better as you guys can just call him... ?
For standard tps maps (>10% tps) we just do normal dyno runs for each tps setting, with any dyno that has afr logging can be used for that. The stepped load could be also used, but it heats up the engine/exhaust piping giving some problems. With one turbo we even got the exhaust piping to burst to flames because the bike was set so rich before we tuned it.
For the vacuum map tuning we tune each rpm area with various load settings and just use the on line map display to see which area to tune. I.e. We set rpms to 3000 and then vary the load from dyno during the run to get various vacuum map points. Then move to 4000rpm and repeat the excersise. so the dyno must be able to hold a set rpm against all <10% throttle positions. I dont know how well dj250i supports that - would be interesting to know.
Btw the gear calculation for e.g. 17/40, 16/40, 18/40 is now implemented to the ecueditor. Will post it for downloading as soon as i am back to sivilization. that also replaces the dynomode setting by allowing "dynomode" gearing that has appr 25mph constant ram air compensation gearing. I guess that for turbos we should implement a different gearing too as instead of ram air we are running boost after certain rpms... Or alternatively let it to dynomode to have a flat ram air compensation.
Are there other std gearings I should add ?
EDIT - here is the screen I meant in the previous text. The nitrous solenoid control is activated for 7000-10500RPM range, the fuel pressure is set to 62psi (135=35%), the fuel consumption setting is se to 120(1.2x normal consumption) and gearing is 18/40 modifying the ram air compensation maps accordingly. The acceleration enrichment is left to stock. Also no RPM range extension is used. Also IAT sensor setting is left to stock.
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/misc_settings.jpg)
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perhaps 18/42 or 18/43 for gen2 busas or gen1,s with stronger motors that want longer chain life.
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perhaps 18/42 or 18/43 for gen2 busas or gen1,s with stronger motors that want longer chain life.
OK - added those to latest version...
Name: Hayabusa ECUeditor for K2-K7 models
Version: 1.2.0.2
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bump... :D
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So Now that ecu editor has nearly completed world domination on the busa scene. what about the zx-12? how would one flash that old girl?
I have a racing mate who is still slower than me. I might want to help him go a little faster. but not too fast... :vl: :twisted:
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Here is your old school ZX-12 info (http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=99460&subForumID=315286&p=2) :thumb: These guys are on it