SuzukiHayabusa.org
TECHNICAL => ALL MOTOR TALK => Topic started by: 04StretchedGSXR on September 29, 2008, 04:22:25 PM
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Hey guys, still trying to feel everybodys knowledge out on the big bore motors. What kind of hp, torque, et's are you all pulling on your 1507's Just looking to see kind of where everyone is at.
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220bhp at 10,100
132ftlb at 7,500
pump gas
stock injectors
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Here's a post from another recent post in the All Motor Section wrt a 1510c motor...only 3cc's more than the typical 1397 plus 5 mm crank
I think the only people involved with making stuff like that is schumacher racing, its for the pro stock engine they have been working on......no way is anyone getting their hands on that kind of stuff yet....
I had a 1673 last season, with of my big heads on it it made right around 280hp to the tire.....
I have a 1510 now with spray, and motor only its making about 255-260 in good air.....
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Our small valve stage 2 head on a 1507 built by Brian on Brocks dyno made 239.6 std hp/233.3 sae hp.
Just for reference our zx12r stage 2 head on a 1427 zx12 engine made 234 sae hp.
We have a new modified stage 2 head for the 1507 now that I expect to see 240 sae hp. Different cams as well.
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Our small valve stage 2 head on a 1507 built by Brian on Brocks dyno made 239.6 std hp/233.3 sae hp.
To put this perspective, do you know how much stock K2-K7 or K8 on same dyno with same correction factor ?
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No, sorry, I wouldnt have that info.
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My buddy's 1507 made 226hp through a Yosh pipe and 234hp through a HMF big bird but was running out of fuel with the stock injectors. We still haven't done the fuel system or re-tuned it yet. I figure it should make 240hp once we get the AFR back in the upper 12s as opposed to low 14s. 1507, big valve Carp. head, Carp. cams, pump gas motor.
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I have a mild built 1510 (86mm Hays block/stock 08 crank) I built for my street bike . Built to run on pump gas and not melt parts at stoplights it made 246hp/136tq (84 deg./29.3in-hg/22% humidity) on E85 / 242hp/135tq on pump gas after tuning the entire rpm range on the tuning link .
Id kinda like to try some MR9 or one of the other "look at my dyno chart" fuels just to see what itll make but it wasnt built to make BIG hp , just a super fun street motor . mission accomplished ! :thumb:
If I decide to try it out at maxton I might try a big port head on it aimed more at peak HP and Ethanol use (ethanol is my new pet project) . right now in street form it makes GREAT midrange . It makes 100hp at 4700 carries to 6500 then it shoots from 145hp to 225 at about 8700 then plains to 246 at 10800 . tq was 130 at 7200 and peaked about 8500 .
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Here's a post from another recent post in the All Motor Section wrt a 1510c motor...only 3cc's more than the typical 1397 plus 5 mm crank
actually its a 86mm Billet block with an OEM 08 crank .
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Bill , correct me pls if I'm wrong...I thought the Hayes blocks were "solid" ie no water cooling whereas the Muzzy cast block does have cooling?
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My Hays block has cooling . I believe you can get them either way .
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dude
not trying to tell you how to spend yo loot but a 2 mill gen1 motor built right with anice carpenter head and a few more tricks will get you 250. And can ride on the street all day. big motors make more torque but you might dont wanna tear down that much. 6500.00 will build you a real nice bike you will enjoy. my .02
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250hp 1363 ? maybe on Bobs dyno...
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250hp 1363 ? maybe on Bobs dyno...
:shock: that is some motor or should i say some dyno :wink:
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wow 250 out of a 1363 , wonder what his 1397's make?
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dude
not trying to tell you how to spend yo loot but a 2 mill gen1 motor built right with anice carpenter head and a few more tricks will get you 250. And can ride on the street all day. big motors make more torque but you might dont wanna tear down that much. 6500.00 will build you a real nice bike you will enjoy. my .02
That is some funny shizzit right there.
I have seen a few of Bob's and Lee's 1397's "with all the tricks" not make more than 235rwhp on a non-local dyno...
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dude
not trying to tell you how to spend yo loot but a 2 mill gen1 motor built right with anice carpenter head and a few more tricks will get you 250. And can ride on the street all day. big motors make more torque but you might dont wanna tear down that much. 6500.00 will build you a real nice bike you will enjoy. my .02
the motor Im talking about is a 1441 high compresssion and it was built down south and dynoed on a 200i dyno
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by the way even if it only make 235 out of a 1441 high compression you can see better numbers than a 1507 and still ride the dam thing. when someone response to how to post pic I will show some graphs. but a 1441 will that much power you will get 235 on pump fuel easy on anybodys dyno.
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It all depends on who's dyno. I've seen a 1441 around here that makes 223 and it's a well built motor with a good head. Of course that's pump gas so with some fancy fel I suppose 230 is there.
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It all depends on who's dyno. I've seen a 1441 around here that makes 223 and it's a well built motor with a good head. Of course that's pump gas so with some fancy fel I suppose 230 is there.
I agree; folks are posting some ridiculous dyno numbers for 1441s.
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I have done a few and they made any where between 230hp to 235hp mine made 232hp all on 93 pump gas.
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Our small valve stage 2 head on a 1507 built by Brian on Brocks dyno made 239.6 std hp/233.3 sae hp.
Can U tell the veiwers why that bike went faster with a 1397cc then that 1507cc and all they did was cange engines. And Sonny is so usset that he won't even race the bike any more. I would just like to know where that project failed?
That was a two ring piston killa with Ti valves.
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all I'm saying is you can say what you want and do want you want. 1441 motors are out performing 1507 motors daily and if you have a strret strip bike why would you build a 1507 on a limited budget. so people with deep pockets run them and can afford all the teardown for bearing replacement.
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If moneys an issue keep the stock crank , build a 1397 and spend the money on a dry shot , efir and 2 dial . :thumb:
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Can U tell the viewers why that bike went faster with a 1397cc then that 1507cc and all they did was cange engines.
The engine is making the power, from what I was told the bike is spinning the tire bad. But of course you knew this because you talk to those guys. Brian even addressed this in another thread on here the last time you tried to start something with him. Why don't you call Brian and discuss it with him again.
I've seen many of your posts on the other bike boards attacking people and even your own customers... is this a habit of yours or a pasttime?
At Maxton this past summer I even heard a group of people commenting about your attacks and rants on people on psycho bike.
Someone said you were even banned? Is that true?
I'm not sure why you are always on the attack on these different forums. As a friendly recommendation, you really need to rethink your business model. Words out.
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:ppcrn:
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Yes Bill a 1441cc is better and cheaper than a 1507cc. Hows the head porting going? call me some time have not heard from ya in a while. But this might be a attack on ur fridge atleast ur beer collection
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I'm not sure why you are always on the attack on these different forums. As a friendly recommendation, you really need to rethink your business model. Words out.
Not attacking U at all just asking a valid question. To I never see a answer. Love me or hate me. But one thing is fer damm sure I don't LIE to make my business look good! And I think that Sonny got pushed in to some thing that done not work.
Bryan has relocated and can be contacted at Brock's Performance............he can be reached at (937) 912-0054. I'm sure he will take your call and answer any questions about Sonny's 1507 or Jason Angela's GSXR1000 which set a class speed record in Super Sport at the ProStar event in Norwalk.
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Yea................. I'll get right on that steve. I wish Sonny would get on here and tell everyone what he's told me. I don't need to call Bryan because he don't own the bike. Sonny DOES!
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For those of you viewing this thread......
Sonny's phone number is 614-578-1657. If anyone has any questions about his motor....... PLEASE CALL HIM.
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Yea................. I'll get right on that steve. I wish Sonny would get on here and tell everyone what he's told me. I don't need to call Bryan because he don't own the bike. Sonny DOES!
Well I am on here.....being the bullheaded person I am I kept taking the bike to kilkare and after finally figuring out that the track will not hold anything over a 190 rwhp swb bike and spinning so hard down the track that my bike tagged an int. valve just like Brian and Brock said it would.....and after riding a 08 zx14 that repeatedly spun verrrryy hard at the 1000 ft mark....I have gave up on kilkare.....the bike is ready to go back together but due to other interest(golf)just has not. I will be riding a new ss busa and a turbo ss busa next year so there you go......I mean I hate to get in the middle of this but Spaz you know what I went on your bike at kilkare.....I went 9.08 on Brocks stock o8.......shouldnt a 230 rwhp swb busa be more than 8 hundredths faster than a stocker?
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Yea................. I'll get right on that steve. I wish Sonny would get on here and tell everyone what he's told me. I don't need to call Bryan because he don't own the bike. Sonny DOES!
Well I am on here.....being the bullheaded person I am I kept taking the bike to kilkare and after finally figuring out that the track will not hold anything over a 190 rwhp swb bike and spinning so hard down the track that my bike tagged an int. valve just like Brian and Brock said it would.....and after riding a 08 zx14 that repeatedly spun verrrryy hard at the 1000 ft mark....I have gave up on kilkare.....the bike is ready to go back together but due to other interest(golf)just has not. I will be riding a new ss busa and a turbo ss busa next year so there you go......I mean I hate to get in the middle of this but Spaz you know what I went on your bike at kilkare.....I went 9.08 on Brocks stock o8.......shouldnt a 230 rwhp swb busa be more than 8 hundredths faster than a stocker?
Sorry...this is Sonny on Quick 60s lap top.
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Can't wait to Sonny on a ss busa!
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Thanks for clearing this up guys.
Steve, gimme a call monday if you get a chance, got a few questions for ya.
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Good news Sonny has saved the day! :thumb: I guess running on a shinko in 100 degree weather didn't have much to do with it....naw what was I thinkin. :duh: I guess what U tell me is different then what happens..... must B a bad connection............damm cell phones. I just wish I could get my nitrous plate back from someone that promise that soon as they copied it. I would get it back :mad1: two years is a long time in my book. But once again time must B way slower in OHIO! :smokin:
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Good news Sonny has saved the day! :thumb: I guess running on a shinko in 100 degree weather didn't have much to do with it....naw what was I thinkin. :duh: I guess what U tell me is different then what happens..... must B a bad connection............damm cell phones. I just wish I could get my nitrous plate back from someone that promise that soon as they copied it. I would get it back :mad1: two years is a long time in my book. But once again time must B way slower in OHIO! :smokin:
Lets clear that shit up real fast to....did you give me a nitrous plate? or did I just end up with one? And lets be real it is not the nitrous plate you keep calling about is it? If I want to post about a problem I have I am a big boy and will do so.
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No mister fastestunknown I didn't give U the nitrous plate. I gave it to ur brother byran and he directly gave it to U to have copied. So yes that is my nitrous plate I have politely asked U for for atleast twenty times. So what else could U possibly have that I need? I do know of one thing that was black ...... BUT DO U WANT TO GO THERE!!! I don't wanna hear any more of ur double sided storys. Just send me my frickin plate and have a nice life!
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No mister fastestunknown I didn't give U the nitrous plate. I gave it to ur brother byran and he directly gave it to U to have copied. So yes that is my nitrous plate I have politely asked U for for atleast twenty times. So what else could U possibly have that I need? I do know of one thing that was black ...... BUT DO U WANT TO GO THERE!!! I don't wanna hear any more of ur double sided storys. Just send me my frickin plate and have a nice life!
Listen....that shit in caps doesnt matter to me ....you know what you wanted...does Wes need to get on here and verify or the people at norwolk you kept askin where I was at? You keep talking about this plate like it was an engineering marvel or something.....as big as a half dollar...4 holes on the edge...one fanjet hole in the middle angled toward the back...real tricky to make I will have my 12 year old son draw it and mail it to you...why didnt you pick it up when you stayed at my house during prostar? P.S. NO ONE has that plate on their bike so no one stole your idea...I dont no where they are and dont really care about a five dollar super trick part...call it even on the free room and food for 3 days.
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Our small valve stage 2 head on a 1507 built by Brian on Brocks dyno made 239.6 std hp/233.3 sae hp.
Can U tell the veiwers why that bike went faster with a 1397cc then that 1507cc and all they did was cange engines. And Sonny is so usset that he won't even race the bike any more. I would just like to know where that project failed?
That was a two ring piston killa with Ti valves.
stock valves out of an 08 that were free.
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No mister fastestunknown I didn't give U the nitrous plate. I gave it to ur brother byran and he directly gave it to U to have copied. So yes that is my nitrous plate I have politely asked U for for atleast twenty times. So what else could U possibly have that I need? I do know of one thing that was black ...... BUT DO U WANT TO GO THERE!!! I don't wanna hear any more of ur double sided storys. Just send me my frickin plate and have a nice life!
Shit like this is why I stay off the net.....8 months ...took this to ruin my streak...this is my last post (even though I know he is going to say something real supid or hurtful or gay or something next)....I am going for 9 months this time.
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i thought this thread was about hp no's out of a 1507,not a bashing match?
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It is it is. my bad :(
I am so so tired of certain shops/people braging about how there product works so great and in all reality it's no better than anyone else's or in some cases worse. And certain people crying to me on the phone but yet braging on the internet.
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no problem spaz,i want to build a 1507 or bigger,and input is good!!
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I would say a 3 mil bore with a 6 mill stroke on a 08 crank with two mill longer rods making it a whauping 1573cc. Krazy power :duh: :drink: :drool: :woot:
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No mister fastestunknown I didn't give U the nitrous plate. I gave it to ur brother byran and he directly gave it to U to have copied. So yes that is my nitrous plate I have politely asked U for for atleast twenty times. So what else could U possibly have that I need? I do know of one thing that was black ...... BUT DO U WANT TO GO THERE!!! I don't wanna hear any more of ur double sided storys. Just send me my frickin plate and have a nice life!
Listen....that shit in caps doesnt matter to me ....you know what you wanted...does Wes need to get on here and verify or the people at norwolk you kept askin where I was at? You keep talking about this plate like it was an engineering marvel or something.....as big as a half dollar...4 holes on the edge...one fanjet hole in the middle angled toward the back...real tricky to make I will have my 12 year old son draw it and mail it to you...why didnt you pick it up when you stayed at my house during prostar? P.S. NO ONE has that plate on their bike so no one stole your idea...I dont no where they are and dont really care about a five dollar super trick part...call it even on the free room and food for 3 days.
sounds like a riceya plate :lol:
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It could B. It was bored @ a 20 degree angle. works great. :thumb: Sent it to Byran Snyder. He wanted to copy it and market as his to sell. And gave it to Sunny to have a bunch made I never seen it again, I was very disppointed!!!! :cussing:
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spaz,do you always act like a asshole!!!!!IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING GOOD TO SAY SHUT THE FUK UP !!!!!!I WANT REAL INFO ON A 1507& NOT SOME SHIT FROM A DRUNK REDNECK,THE MODERATOR SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!now,if you want to post something useful do it or shut up!!!!if you have something to say about certian people on here pm them,don't bring it on someones post!!!!
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WTF R U talking about. Who's name have I bashed? Oh thanx for the personal attack I guess that makes U different or better then U say I am. Glass houses huh?
I have done nothing but state FACTS!!!!! truely sorry if some how I offended ur persons.
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My thoughts exactly Stocker64. Thank you, I couldn't have said it better myself. Call me at 937-270-9381. I have built several of these motors and was fortunate enough to learn a great recipe and a few secrets from the late Dave Owen.
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BRYAN,THANKS,DAVE-O HAS HELPED ME TUNING MY BIKE,I AM DOING IT MYSELF AND HE LED ME DOWN THE RIGHT PATH,RIGHT NOW I AM READY TO GO WITH A BIGGER MOTOR AND DON'T NEED ANY WRONG INFO!!!!!!I WILL CALL,MY BIKE HAS A BROCK'S SIDEWINDER AND IS A 1397 THAT HAS BEEN VERY GOOD TO ME.
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Whats Dave O or Brock got to do with me or this post? This is the very first time I have ever mentioned either name! And please quote me where I have bashed some one. Not being a dick to U, but U need to read my posts clearly b 4 U go bashin me.
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SPAZ,WHAT GOOD INFO HAVE YOU CONTRIBUTED TO THIS POST????????HAVE A BUDWISER ON ME :thumb:IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING GOOD TO SAY ABOUT BUILDING A 1507 WATCH TV AND DON'T POST,I WANT SOME GOOD INFO,SOME PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO HELP,YOU ON THE OTHER HAND,IS THROWING SHIT.GO BOATING OR SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!
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I would say a 3 mil bore with a 6 mill stroke on a 08 crank with two mill longer rods making it a whauping 1573cc. Krazy power :duh: :drink: :drool: :woot:
WTF U call this.
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I have done a few and they made any where between 230hp to 235hp mine made 232hp all on 93 pump gas.
Or this
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SPAZ,WHAT GOOD INFO HAVE YOU CONTRIBUTED TO THIS POST????????HAVE A BUDWISER ON ME :thumb:IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING GOOD TO SAY ABOUT BUILDING A 1507 WATCH TV AND DON'T POST,I WANT SOME GOOD INFO,SOME PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO HELP,YOU ON THE OTHER HAND,IS THROWING SHIT.GO BOATING OR SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!
I would ask U what U wanna know......but I have this feeling U don't give a shit what I have offer or know about a 1507cc. I am sure u'll figure it out. :thumb:
But for any one else that cares or wants to know. I would have to say a 1507cc is a waste of money. 1441cc or 1530cc not a 1535cc
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SPAZ,WHAT GOOD INFO HAVE YOU CONTRIBUTED TO THIS POST????????HAVE A BUDWISER ON ME :thumb:IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING GOOD TO SAY ABOUT BUILDING A 1507 WATCH TV AND DON'T POST,I WANT SOME GOOD INFO,SOME PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO HELP,YOU ON THE OTHER HAND,IS THROWING SHIT.GO BOATING OR SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!
I would ask U what U wanna know......but I have this feeling U don't give a shit what I have offer or know about a 1507cc. I am sure u'll figure it out. :thumb:
SPAZ,I AHVE TOTAL RESPECT FOR YOU AS A ENGINE BUILDER,AND A HEAD PORTER,STICK TO THE SUBJECT,THATS All I AM SAYING.I TRIED TO GET YOU TO PORT MY HEAD ON MY CURRENT 1397 AND YOU HAD NOTHING GOOD TO SAY TO ME,AND YOU WOULD NOT GIVE ME THE TIME OF THE DAY.NO RESPECT, GETS NO RESPECT.NOW LETS TALK ABOUT A 1507 BUILD.
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A 1507 is a kind of waste money unless that's what U really need to have. 5mil or 6mill cost the same and last the same. In all reality when going with any thing over a 08 style crank 2 mil one should use longer rods. because ur going to replace them with good ones any way. That way the engine will live longer. :thumb:
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Finally we're reading good advise about 1507.........thank's SPAZ for the info :thumb:
and we still listening if you have other good info-combo about 1507
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thanks spaz,some good technical info,since it will be the same money to build,should i pay a few more bucks and get a 8mil crank?why i ask this is because i want to remove my wet kit on my 1397 and go ALL MOTOR :thumb:
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If U can afford it. Yes 8 mil is a good combo. I like the one that Ape sells. There is another good company that I use, but I don't think there a sponsor here.
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spaz,how reliable is a 8mil weld-up in your opinion?
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I would never use a 8 mill weld up. I don't even think crank shops can go that far. The oil holes get to thin. I thought U might B asking about a Billet.
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i would spend the 3000 dollars or so if that is what it takes :thumb:
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spaz,this is a cut seat framerail, catalist bodywork, light drag only busa,about 40 passes a year.I want it to be a all motor beast.It has carillos and custom je's already.
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I would never use a 8 mill weld up. I don't even think crank shops can go that far. The oil holes get to thin. I thought U might B asking about a Billet.
about 6.25mm or 6.5mm at a squeeeze is where they will pull up stumps and say...ya gotta go billet
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I'd go billet anyway with anything even in the 5mm range. Be safe and not sorry.
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Here ya go. This is what I would run. 73 mill with a 84 mil bore makes it a 1620cc Can U say MONSTER
(http://www.marinecrankshaftinc.com/billets/Hayabusa-73mm-stroker.jpg)
(http://www.marinecrankshaftinc.com/billets/Hayabusa73mm-stroker.jpg)
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that thing is beautiful!!!!!pm me how much?
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So how reliable is the 1507 compared to a 1441 and compared to a stock 1300? I have always heard strokers are hard on bearings, is the 1441 easier on them then a 1507? ANd how long does a stroker last before it needs to be tore down?
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Well a 1441cc is basically the same as a 1397cc U can ride them any where. I have customers that have over 10,000 miles on them one is Bill Hartley. He rides the heck out of his busa. He has at least 15,000 on my custom wiseco 1397/84mm pistons. I have customers with 7-8 thousand miles on there 1507's If the engine is built right the first time and U take good care of it. Such as checking clutches frequently, changing it @ the proper time. And last running the right oil. Brad Penn,Motorex,Motul, are a few ones I use. I love the Brad Penn oil. :thumb:
When building a stroker there R only a few thing U gotta get right, but those few things R crucial.
Hope this helps.
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Stocker if U can I would build a 85mm engine with either a Hayes block or a Muzzy. With a 10 mill :thumb:
Monster. One problem though..............................U might have a hard time keeping those 14's out of the ram air tubes. :lmao: :ll: :haha:
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If you could would you enlighten me on the few important items....being I will be doing the work myself I would like to only do it once. :D
And which clutches are you refering to? If you mean the tranny clutches I have hads the same units in my sandrail for four seasons w/o a problem......do the strokers eat clutches?
Thanks
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do the strokers eat clutches?
Thanks
No but the power does. :lol:
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Spaz probably mean that BAD clutch deposit can hurt crank bearing :wink:
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Yes hard on clutches.
busasandrail, where R U located?
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Have Rick Stetson at Harry's machine shop machine your cases and do the oil mods. This will increase the life of the bottom end of your engine. The Rod bearings are the weak link. He will also install main studs. Make sure you have about 2 thousandths clearence on the big end of the rod. Clutch is the number one culprit for knocking bearings out. Clean out the pick up and the oil pan. Especially if you have a low profile oil pan with a swing pick up. Change your oil frequently and use 20w/50 on the street and 10w/40 for drag racing. I just use 20w/50 all the time. Alisyn is a real good oil to use as well. This should take care of your bottom end. Any other questions give me a call 937-270-9381.
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I swear by calico ct1 coated bearings as well . Its extreamly cheap to have done and on normal teardowns bearings come out looking exactly as they did when installed .
As far as oil goes if your not riding it on the street and your alil crazy about maintenance like me , run cheap lightweight shit and change it every 3 passes . My 8.5mm billet crank allways got advance auto 10w30 , never went a 4th pass on an oil change , calico coated cosworth bearings , my oil mods and a stock pump with ape gear and it came out of the motor looking brand new after many nitrous passes and an eventual top end meltdown .
Obviously for the street you cant consider price of oil when it comes to whats best for your investment . I ususally break them in on conventional 10w30 maxima then switch over to maxima or lucas 20/50 full syn .
with billet pans double check the clearance between the bottom of the pickup and the floor of the pan . Ive had 2 of the "high dollar" ones that I had to take material off the p/u because it was dragging the bottom of the pan .
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Yes hard on clutches.
busasandrail, where R U located?
I'm in olympia Wa.
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Well a 1441cc is basically the same as a 1397cc U can ride them any where. I have customers that have over 10,000 miles on them one is Bill Hartley. He rides the heck out of his busa. He has at least 15,000 on my custom wiseco 1397/84mm pistons. I have customers with 7-8 thousand miles on there 1507's If the engine is built right the first time and U take good care of it. Such as checking clutches frequently, changing it @ the proper time. And last running the right oil. Brad Penn,Motorex,Motul, are a few ones I use. I love the Brad Penn oil. :thumb:
When building a stroker there R only a few thing U gotta get right, but those few things R crucial.
Hope this helps.
:wink:
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IMO, a 1507 is the point at which the cylinder pressures begin to tax the connecting rods through compressive forces.........even aftermarket rods. In addition to detonation, I believe this to be one of the biggest challenges to reliability. To address this issue, it is important to engineer oiling clearances and what has been said about oiling clearances and coatings is spot on and the builder or shop that assembles the 1507 must use the services of a machine shop. Aftermarket rods cannot simply be installed as the big end diameter may or may not work with the diameters of the crankshaft pins to achieve the desired oiling clearances. .......even with the assistance of varying bearing thicknesses. Similarly, the cases must be align honed to achieve desired clearances along with consistency. Edit: the correct oil, necessary oil changes and an unobstructed pickup are a given.
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Stocker if U can I would build a 85mm engine with either a Hayes block or a Muzzy. With a 10 mill :thumb:
Monster. One problem though..............................U might have a hard time keeping those 14's out of the ram air tubes. :lmao: :ll: :haha:
Do you mean 86mm
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No I don'y like off set bores. I think bigger is better. But 85mm in a stock block don't last long.
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Spaz;
ANSWER YOUR PHONE!!!!!
Jay
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Sleeping was on the road straight for 33 hours. :ohman:
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No I don'y like off set bores. I think bigger is better. But 85mm in a stock block don't last long.
Are you saying that a 85mm bore using a Muzzy or the Hay's block is better than a stock block bored to 85mm? if so could you let us know the reasoning?
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No I don't like off set bores. I think bigger is better. But 85mm in a stock block don't last long.
Are you saying that a 85mm bore using a Muzzy or the Hay's block is better than a stock block bored to 85mm? if so could you let us know the reasoning?
Yes it is. Stock bock can over heat easier. More material in the after market block, so better cooling. Less prone to blowing head gaskets also.
A Bigger engine will make more power. But I am not into off set bores, unless its a all out grudge bikes. I build ten street bikes to one grudge bike. I can build a 1397cc with same or more power than a 1430cc and the 1397cc will live longer. When running a 1430cc U have to let it cool down twice as long. Is what happens is the 1430cc bores get out of round when it becomes heat soaked, there for the bores become out of round on the stock block. = loss in power. Hopes this all helps. :brnt:
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I thought Muzzy only produced 86mm and 87mm blocks for the Hayabusa in an offset configuration? :?:
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No I don't like off set bores. I think bigger is better. But 85mm in a stock block don't last long.
Are you saying that a 85mm bore using a Muzzy or the Hay's block is better than a stock block bored to 85mm? if so could you let us know the reasoning?
Yes it is. Stock bock can over heat easier. More material in the after market block, so better cooling. Less prone to blowing head gaskets also.
A Bigger engine will make more power. But I am not into off set bores, unless its a all out grudge bikes. I build ten street bikes to one grudge bike. I can build a 1397cc with same or more power than a 1430cc and the 1397cc will live longer. When running a 1430cc U have to let it cool down twice as long. Is what happens is the 1430cc bores get out of round when it becomes heat soaked, there for the bores become out of round on the stock block. = loss in power. Hopes this all helps. :brnt:
Interesting comment about the out of round due to heat / temp. From what I have seen the Muzzy block has less thermal capacity for energy to be exchanged due to less coolant in the block than stock. At 86mm they still have 3mm between bores and the sealing the gasket area is the biggest issue that I see.
Have you checked for out of roundness before and after a motor is built or assuming this to be case dynamically .
I thought Muzzy only produced 86mm and 87mm blocks for the Hayabusa in an offset configuration? :?:
That's what they list DF, I know that Millenium has done a few 85.5mm blocks for customers ..from new...they have all used the same JE piston..although over the years JE has supplied 2 different forgings...4 valve and 2 valve.
Havent heard about a 85mm bore either offset or not up front , however anything is possible. The 86mm Muzzy block uses the 85mm JE forging....not sure what they use for the 87mm as this is only a relatively new listing....J..Speedking can you help out here?
The 87mm offset block would be pushing the envelope without an appropriate crank IMHO.
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Steve Swanson and I built a bike two years ago with the 86mm Muzzy big block and a 5mm crank.(1580cc) This bike has been 8.20's @ 171 MPH and very reliable. Bike made 250 horse power.
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I personally know at least five 88mm bore engines and one 90mm The guy has $5 G's in just the head. Moving the valves and combustion cambers out.
Woo Wee :ohman:
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I personally know at least five 88mm bore engines and one 90mm The guy has $5 G's in just the head. Moving the valves and combustion cambers out.
Woo Wee :ohman:
spaz,if you don't mind me asking what stroke at those bores? :sprz:
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10mil with two mil longer rods.
I thing one of the 88mm has a 8.5 crank.
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This dyno graph is one of a series of pulls made with my bike which was one of the first 1507's Bryan built............but was subsequently rebuilt to address the fact that Carrillo's are presently designed to conform to the "tighter" end of manufacturer specifications. Among other things, the engine features oversized intake valves on a Competition CNC head and Megacycle camshafts; the exhaust is a Brock street system. Test conditions were favorable, MRX01 was used for fuel and measured output was adjusted to STD reference conditions.
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x161/belloswede/Shorty1507.jpg)
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more, please! :thumb: :D
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now you guys got me thinking on doing the same to my 08 busa for 1507 upgrade.
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We just did a Stg 2 head that is going on an 08 busa with an 86mm muzzy block.
Its a wet nitrous bike and it will be extensively tested at the Honda proving grounds at the end of march and the texas mile after that as well as run thru the 1/4 mile. All the details will be out in May or so.
I cant say more than that right now.
Stay tuned.
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I will also post my 1585 numbers with Competition CNC Stage 2 head/stock valves as soon as I get it togeather. Dont think it will be b4 may though....
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Anyone ever make an offset busa block where the cylinders were not only offset but were the bores were a few degrees in a "V" configuration or are they all straight?
Seems to me that a slight V would be easier on the bearings.
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"Slight V" I'm not sure what you mean.
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"Slight V" I'm not sure what you mean.
Let’s say the bore offset is 1/2" when measured from the top of the block (this seems like a lot but just using it as a # and the offset is not done more than what the head could handle or what is common for offset blocks).
I am only curious to know if the offset that a block offset measured .5 at the top of the block and have the bores drilled at an angle so there would be zero offset at the base of the block. This would mean the cylinders were at a slight V (maybe only a few degrees) as apposed to parallel to each other. It is true that the cylinder walls would be thin at the base of the block but for some reason I thought it was the offset and parallel relationship to the crank that made it really hard on bearings. For some reason I got in my head that if they were a few degrees V’ed then it would be easier on the bearings.
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Jonny Hotnuts, you have pm and email
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Let’s say the bore offset is 1/2" when measured from the top of the block (this seems like a lot but just using it as a # and the offset is not done more than what the head could handle or what is common for offset blocks).
I am only curious to know if the offset that a block offset measured .5 at the top of the block and have the bores drilled at an angle so there would be zero offset at the base of the block. This would mean the cylinders were at a slight V (maybe only a few degrees) as apposed to parallel to each other. It is true that the cylinder walls would be thin at the base of the block but for some reason I thought it was the offset and parallel relationship to the crank that made it really hard on bearings. For some reason I got in my head that if they were a few degrees V’ed then it would be easier on the bearings.
If I'm following you correctly I dont see how that would work..... ????
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It looks like to me that the offset bores would change timing a few degrees due to a change in TDC in relation to the bore to crank.
If the motors TDC was at "0" and the bore offset moved two pistons cylinder bores 2 degrees (guess) forward and 2 cylinder 2 degrees back from center the motor would be firing the back cylinders early and the forward cylinders late.
I would think that there would need to be a timing compensation if the bores were moved....or if the cylinders were in a V, TDC would stay the same.
Again I am just thinking this and dont really know if this is valid.
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JHN's...you mean one of these offset blocks?? :lol: :lol: :lol:
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj183/gazza414/DSCN0010.jpg)
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nice lookin motor you got there :thumb: I'm in the home stretch of a turbo project but I've always thought built up N/A motors were really cool...just never got a chance to ride one
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OK, Now I see what your getting at. Like the VW VR6 engine but not that much ov a V? The head would be a problem. It would need a new head and block.