SuzukiHayabusa.org
TECHNICAL => ALL MOTOR TALK => Topic started by: whtrthanu on October 17, 2008, 11:19:01 PM
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finished up my dock the other day, started using all the software........This is really great stuff......I didnt realize how complicated the stock ecu was.......alot of tuning capabilities.......Gonna take time to get used to everything, but the rev limiters are pretty easy to do..........gonna try to do some testing on the dyno this weekend and check out the timing and fuel maps........
it wasnt too hard getting it all going............ :thumb:
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post up the results... :thumb:
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i will post up some of the data screens, theres like thousands of pages of info....
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what are you using ECU EDITOR OR RAMRAIDER.... I use both.... :thumb:
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i use both also
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cool... :thumb:
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Very good !
What is the reflashing speed in your setup 30sec or 3min ? ... and do you have intentions of mapping the bikes in a dyno too ?
There is a link to the mapping library in the ECUeditor. It works so that if you are signed in to the yahoo group with maps then you automatically get updated maps. If youre not signed in then you can ask for a map over email from any of the users. Lets also try to keep the map library very active and post different maps into there - not so much as a map sharing as its to inform the others that a certain type of bike has been already mapped.
Every bike is unique, a good base map just makes dyno operators work easier. Sharing a map is a culture I would like everyone to attend. The more everyone posts maps here the better information we have. Also we know that the most active posters are propably most experienced with all this stuff.
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/ecueditor/
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/ECUeditor_maplibrary.jpg)
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wow looks like this is flashing technology is starting to catch on over here petrik!!
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wow looks like this is flashing technology is starting to catch on over here petrik!!
Yes - I really hope so, i think that the knowledge and tools are there now.
I also hope that when ever someone offer services for money from using this free information and software that they would put some money DaveOs memorial fund when ever they earn some.
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:thumb:
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we encourage all the flashers :) to share their maps.... :thumb: to keep the community growing.. :thumb:
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wow looks like this is flashing technology is starting to catch on over here petrik!!
Yes - I really hope so, i think that the knowledge and tools are there now.
I also hope that when ever someone offer services for money from using this free information and software that they would put some money DaveOs memorial fund when ever they earn some.
I Thank you rr,jasa,bozo,busa2001 and everyone who was involved in making this technology available for all of us to use.AT petrik's wishes i hope everyone helps ot dave-o's family :thumb:
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Let me know when you are ready to start dynoing bikes by reflashing and I can then share some lessons learned - most of which are just trivialities, but makes learning curve faster and results better.
E.g. increasing the flashing speed is one target - i have seen installations that take 30s and oters that take 3min to reflash. In dyno we want this to be fairly short time.
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so far no more than 30 seconds to flash
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What would be useful if the service was offered remotely was to correlate a pc3usb map and relate those changes to the ecu reflash,its not perfect and goes down the road of downloadable power commander maps not being as good as a custom tune but if someone was happy with their pc map the reflash could potentially be a least as good and at least it was based on a proven tune on their bike.
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Excellent - the speed is correct for dynoing. Now a couple of practical things which may be trivialities, but lets just mention those over here:
- TPS map is intended for tuning TPS position 10-100%. Tune every TPS position at a time. Have the datastream screen available for you to see the TPS position through out the run. Tuning below 10% does not affect anything. That is just a fail safe area if the IAP map fails. This part of the tuning is very alike to tuning with powercommander or yoshimura ems. Just change the cell values.
- IAP map is intended for tuning at any fixed RPM at time. Set the dyno to maintain the RPM and vary the throttle. You can monitor the AFR from your dyno screen and the exact map position on ECUeditor map to tune on the fuel or ignition map screen. Often I just paint a bigger area, maybe 5x2 cells and make changes with - - -.
I usually first tune one IAP area and then one TPS area during one run. That way the engine does not heat too much.
Colour codes mean values compared to original map or any map set by set compare map.
Increasing cell value is + by one and * by 5% more. - and / works the opposite way.
Often at around 2000-3000rpm 70-100% TPS there is way too much fuel on TPS area, sometimes so much that it makes me wonder why suzuki designed it that way. The rest of the map is fairly easy to tune.
This is in a nutshell for what I have learned with my around 1000 runs this summer and with feedback from additional couple of thousands by others dyning.
Let us know how it goes and we can take it from there when questions arise.
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While watching a very boring F1 race from internet TV wrote a bit more detailed instructions for dynoing a bike using the ECUeditor.
Any comments and questions to the below will be appreciated...
Dyno process with ECUeditor
1. Check the engine data monitor connection and check the TPS setting
- Connect the cable to the bike and your computer
- Start ECUeditor and press "Connect ECU for engine data"
- Turn bike power on
- You should see "Datastream Active" text on top of the screen, if not turn bike power off and back on
- Turn throttle. At idle position the TPS should show 1.2% at full throttle it should show 100%. Adjust TPS
accordingly to get these readings.
- Turn bike power off
2. Load the basemap which is closest to the engine in question to ECUeditor
- Use "File open" command to open the map in question
3. Fill in the bike details and save a new base map file
- Press "Update bike info" and type in the bike data
- Save the file under new name using "File Save" command. This stores the updated bike info and gives you a
new working base map file.
4. Set ECU to dynomode set desired RPM limiter and flash a basic map to the ecu
- Using advanced settings set "Gearing/Dynomode" setting to dynomode. This fixes the Ram Air compensation to
a fixed air speed that the dyno fans are generating. Using dynomode allows precice tuning of maps at a fixed
air speed. At the end of the dyno session you set the gearing that the bike has and that re-enables ram air
compensation for that gearing.
- Set RPM limiter to desired level.
- Flash the basemap with dynomode enabled and RPM set to ECU by pressing "Flash the ECU" button. Before
flashing turn bike power on. If power was on, turn it off and back on to reset the ecu.
5. Tune the TPS 11%-100% area at each throttle position at the time
- Click "Connect to Engine Data" and turn engine power off (if it was not not already) and back on. Setting the engine data on you can see directly on the map which area you are tuning.
- Select "Edit Fuel Map(s)" and you the fuel map chart will be opened. On the top of the screen there is three major buttons. "TPS fuelmap" which is tuning TPS/RPM map for TPS positons over 10%. "IAP fuelmap" which is for tuning Vacuum/RPM positions for TPS <10%. "MS Fuelmap" which is to tune the MS (secondary) map for over 10% area.
- Start with 11% area and progress each TPS position at the time up to 100%.
- Make a dyno run with a steady TPS position, check the AFR for each RPM range from the AFR curve from dyno. Adjust the TPS map accordingly.
- Its good practise to modify the next higher TPS area when you make changes to TPS position you are tuning. This is because thats where you end up doing changes next. Anyway over the time everyone develops their desired method for tuning.
- Very often the RPM range between 2000-4000 needs significant leaning out if the bike has an aftermarket exhaust fitted
- Changes are made by painting the cells with mouse and then pressing +,-,* or /. The numbers on the map are not directly related to milliseconds, those are rather volumetric efficiency for the engine at any given TPS/IAP/RPM position.
Even Ignition maps are not mentioned here specifically, those are alike to TPS maps. Ignition is always TPS/RPM map, there is no IAP ignition map.
6. Tune IAP map at each RPM area at the time
- Tuning IAP map not alike to tuning TPS map. The IAP is vacuum so often its easier to have a fixed RPM and tune accordingly. Other than that making changes are similar.
- Click "Connect to Engine Data" and turn engine power off (if it was not not already) and back on. Setting the engine data on you can see directly on the map which area you are tuning.
- Choose an RPM area in your mind and run against that RPM area with varying TPS positions to get different IAP (vacuum) readings. Monitor the AFR on the dyno and change the map accordingly. Usually its better to paint an area of size of 2x5 or even 4x8 for changing the map based on AFR reading.
7. Set ECU back to desired gearing setting and flash the final map to the ecu
- At the end of the dyno session do remember to go to "Advanced Settings" and update the dynomode to gearing
that the bike has. This way the ram air compensation gets enabled to deliver more fuel at higher speeds.
(Anyway when when ever dynoing and adjusting the afr the gearing should be in dynomode so that a fixed air
speed is used for calculating the fuel.)
8. Save the final map with a clearly distinctive name
- File Save under a clearly distinctive name which you can find from your computer. Its a good practise to
e.g. add a word finished at the end of the map file name so that you know which file was the latest version.
- Flash the final file to the bike. Its important to remember doing this so that the RAM air works properly.
9. Send the map to map library using map sharing function
- The ECUeditor is an open community product. The free use of the ECUeditor is based on the concept that the users are sharing their maps. In case if you are not actively sharing your maps the ECUeditor will lock out until you have shared some maps. This map sharing policy applies also to dyno stations. The purpose here is not to let everyone copy others work - its quite opposite. As each bike is different this approach allows ECUeditor to share the experience and generate cumulative knowledge of this new way of tuning. There is so much more into getting most out of the engine includingg the capability to unify cylinder maps, to tweak the ignition maps, to change the ignition dwell. Sharing maps will make dynoing easier for those who really are serious in tuning in a dyno the engines they have built. Dynoing is a professional service that can not be copied just copying a map. Its an unique opportunity to tweak the engine for getting most out of it. I am sure that the real engine entusiast with high power engines will in soon choose a dyno operator based on the skills they demonstrate by choosing to share the maps as proving new ways of finding more power. Simply setting up a straight AFR line and a good base map is not anymore enough for us who understand that there is so much more into getting the most out of the engine !
10. Testdrive and enjoy the driveability changes
- Most bike owners will be surprised how much better the the part throttle response is. Particularly turbos and highly modified bikes will benefit greatly from this 'treatment'.
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WOW,great write-up petrik,that should make it easier to flash for all who have not done it. :thumb:
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DAMN!!!!!! :thumb:
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Pertik,
If you ever find yourself in jail and looking for Bail money, be sure to hit up myself and the rest of the community. We will get you out. :lol:
Thanks again for all of your work.
:thumb: :thumb:
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Pertik,
If you ever find yourself in jail and looking for Bail money, be sure to hit up myself and the rest of the community. We will get you out. :lol:
Thanks again for all of your work.
:thumb: :thumb:
Thanks for your support - even though I really hope that it never comes to that for any of us.
Just out of curiosity - does anyone know if there is more to what is written on this story:
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=99460&p=3&topicID=18013038
I mean according to that dynoing a bike with an extension module is a violation to emission laws ? Is it really so in USA ?
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Since all of this is over my head, please answer a few questions if you don't mind... What can actually be done to a '08 bike? Can the limiter be removed? Can all three maps be re-written? Is it possible to write a map that can be downloaded to PC III, then to the bike? Is it possible to have a map emailed to you?
I turn wrenches very well, but this is something that I've never been involved in, but what you guys are doing is amazing!
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When I finally get on my hands one spare K8-K9 busa ecu for diving into it, I hope that all this will become possible for K8-K9 owners too.
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Nice to know the gen1 owners get a head start on this style of tuning. :D
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so far no more than 30 seconds to flash
Do you have any special settings on your USB COM port to acheive this 30 second flash? Mine used to be 180 sec, I have gotten it to 169 seconds by tweaking the com port latency speed.
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Nice to know the gen1 owners get a head start on this style of tuning. :D
Yes - I am hearing rumours that K8 owners are changing back to K2-K7 bikes only because they want to have an edge like this. This is a funny world...
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Pertik,
If you ever find yourself in jail and looking for Bail money, be sure to hit up myself and the rest of the community. We will get you out. :lol:
Thanks again for all of your work.
:thumb: :thumb:
or in the states and out of dollars at the strip club :P
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so far no more than 30 seconds to flash
Do you have any special settings on your USB COM port to acheive this 30 second flash? Mine used to be 180 sec, I have gotten it to 169 seconds by tweaking the com port latency speed.
That seems to be hardware dependent that your laptop or pc has. Besides latency I have not managed to get it lower without getting a new hardware for USB.
Would be interesting to know what kind of computer mike is runnig. In the local dyno shop there is an extra usb2 card and exteral usb hub and we get 30sec flash times. On my laptop its the same 169s. This speed difference is something not yet fully understood and requires more investigation. If you use an old style programmer for serial port only then you get 48sec, but loose the data monitoring capability. Been in tourch with FTDI, but they can not help it much either.
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Pertik,
If you ever find yourself in jail and looking for Bail money, be sure to hit up myself and the rest of the community. We will get you out. :lol:
Thanks again for all of your work.
:thumb: :thumb:
Thanks for your support - even though I really hope that it never comes to that for any of us.
Just out of curiosity - does anyone know if there is more to what is written on this story:
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=99460&p=3&topicID=18013038
I mean according to that dynoing a bike with an extension module is a violation to emission laws ? Is it really so in USA ?
Here you go... http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/casesett/dynojet.htm
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Just for clarity (to answer a couple of questions pm:d) - the instructions posted above are valid only for using ECUeditor http://busaecu.redirectme.net (http://busaecu.redirectme.net).
For dynoing with ECUeditor you need a cable with Engine Data monitoring wire. A discussion how to build such a cable is found here:
http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=134112 (http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=134112)
A cable without engine data monitoring is no good for dynoing process desrcibed above. You can reflash limiters though, but things like adding a shifter, changing shifter kill times, using flapper control valve for nitrous solenoid with TPS>85% you can not do with a reflashing only cable.
As background information I tried e.g. Romraider for that but its way too clumsy for any proper dynoing. Also tried ECUflash software but never got to write proper definitions for it.
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When I finally get on my hands one spare K8-K9 busa ecu for diving into it, I hope that all this will become possible for K8-K9 owners too.
This is great. I have been monitoring the work you (and previously Dave) had done, and waiting for the GenII solution. Let us know when you have this working!
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Sorry about the maybe stupid question :-)
How do you know that the information I have written has changed in the ECU?
for example, I tried to set at 4000 RPM., But no editor dopšta so low RPM ?
Thanks