SuzukiHayabusa.org
TECHNICAL => GEN II BUSA => Topic started by: smithabusa on June 30, 2009, 08:52:12 PM
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Thank you Petrik for your ECU Editor 2.0 Software, can't wait to try this out. Anyone wanna loan me a 08 busa for the summer?
Still pending testing, bought 2 ecu's, waiting for the 1st one to show up to see if it flashes, then off to a buddies house an hour away to try it on his bike.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1170.jpg)
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Ok pm me price on the unit, im ready to buy. :thumb:
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Gotta test it first ;)
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I'm the second on the list...keep us informed...Thx
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I'm the second on the list...keep us informed...Thx
..... :wink:
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Thank you Petrik for your ECU Editor 2.0 Software, can't wait to try this out. Anyone wanna loan me a 08 busa for the summer?
Still pending testing, bought 2 ecu's, waiting for the 1st one to show up to see if it flashes, then off to a buddies house an hour away to try it on his bike.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1170.jpg)
Do you need the bike for the whole summer, or would a week work for you? 8)
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well the whole summer sure would be a lot more fun LOL
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What will be the new parameters for the ECU after you flash it?When will it be ready?I need to get ready for the top speed runs Aug.1st and 2nd in Maine at Lorane Air field,maybe I could test it for you.
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What will be the new parameters for the ECU after you flash it?When will it be ready?I need to get ready for the top speed runs Aug.1st and 2nd in Maine at Lorane Air field,maybe I could test it for you.
not sure what you mean new paramters after flashing. Well i have hardware built, and hopefully i have a 08 ecu coming to me today to make sure it flashes. Assuming it does ill be visiting a local buddy this week / weekend to make sure the gauge data works, then its ready to go, just gotta start slapping them together etc.
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What will be the new parameters for the ECU after you flash it?When will it be ready?I need to get ready for the top speed runs Aug.1st and 2nd in Maine at Lorane Air field,maybe I could test it for you.
At Loring af base in Maine? How long of a strip are they giving? Jesus I live in maine and this is the first I've heard of it!?! it's about a 4 hour ride for me
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What will be the new parameters for the ECU after you flash it?When will it be ready?I need to get ready for the top speed runs Aug.1st and 2nd in Maine at Lorane Air field,maybe I could test it for you.
At Loring af base in Maine? How long of a strip are they giving? Jesus I live in maine and this is the first I've heard of it!?! it's about a 4 hour ride for me
i think its 1 mile and also 1.5 miles
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sniff,sniff,do i smell progress...... :lol:
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CONFIRMED!!! Gauge data is working (well what i have hooked up on the bench anyway)
Just flashed it in fast mode :)
YEEEEEE FREAKING HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumb:
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CONFIRMED!!! Gauge data is working (well what i have hooked up on the bench anyway)
Just flashed it in both normal and fast mode :)
YEEEEEE FREAKING HAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumb:
taaaaa daaaaaaa,exciting even though you don't own an 08 does'nt it greg........ :lol:
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not sure what you mean new paramters after flashing. Well i have hardware built, and hopefully i have a 08 ecu coming to me today to make sure it flashes. Assuming it does ill be visiting a local buddy this week / weekend to make sure the gauge data works, then its ready to go, just gotta start slapping them together etc.
Sorry,let me clarify,I want to raise my revlimter to somewhere between 11600 to 12000 if possible,will this ECU flasher do that and if not what does it do,I read some other posts on ECU flashing here where they said they would be able to.Loring is supposed to be 1 to 1.5 miles,Aug 1st and 2nd, all hayabusa's,I have to confirm that,but last time I checked it was.
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currently it looks like the software is showing 12500 as the max limiter rpm you can select.
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So does that mean I can select what RPM I want my revlimiter to be,from 11500 to 12500 or it is set at 12500 and thats it,sorry for all the questions,thanks.
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So does that mean I can select what RPM I want my revlimiter to be,from 11500 to 12500 or it is set at 12500 and thats it,sorry for all the questions,thanks.
you may be able to set it to 12500 but the motor may not last at 12500
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Its adjustable download the software and check it out ;)
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So to check things out you can download the ECU Editor 2.0 software (which may require updated net framework depending on your windows version), and if you actually want to connect a box to the software and flash you will want to download this driver.
ECU Editor 2.0 http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/ecueditor2.0/ecueditor_prerelease.htm
Net Framework (might be required) http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=333325FD-AE52-4E35-B531-508D977D32A6&displaylang=en
Driver from FTDIchip.com http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/CDM/CDM%202.04.16.exe
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Thanks to Rick at Rick's Custom Cycle in Garden City, MI who let me install this on his 08 busa and make sure it worked, and it did :)
A few pics, install was cake, take a paper clip and push the white dummy plugs out of pins 25 and 28 out from the front of the connector through the back. Then just insert the 2 pins, the green wire i had was 22 gauge (sorty flimsy) and i had to use a small screw driver to push it all the way in, the 20 gauge brown wire i inserted with just fingers. no need to remove the back cap or anything, just insert until it clicks, easy cheesy!
We removed the battery to get the ecu connector up further, and pulled the barometric pressure sensor off its little base bracket so i could get at the yosh and sds. I would say maybe 5 minutes if that to wire in the tiny 2 wire harness. We unlocked the yellow lock in the yosh plug, to insert my green and brown wires into proper locations, then put the lock back on.
To start with we flashed 12,000 RPM limiter hardcut only, no gear limiters, i think that was it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1171.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1174.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1175.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1176.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1179.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1184.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1180.jpg)
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Ok so how difficult is the install really? (easier than a pc3usb?)
Whenever you say no gear limiters do you mean all restrictions lifted like a tre would kinda do? (if they actually worked lol)
Would I still need my pc3 for my ti/force full system?
How much?
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install in 5-10 minutes, very easy. suzuki has a bunch of different fuel / ignition limiters based on gear that petrik is shutting off in the software. no need for pc3 with this :)
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This is AWSOME :thumb:
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Spoke to Rick today, last night after we flashed it, he ran 6th gear up to 12,800 RPM indicated, so its a workin :)
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I was wondering. With greg's harness and the ECU sofware could I use this for computer to flash my 08.Samsung NC10-14GB Netbook Intel Atom 1.6GHz, 1GB, 160GB HD, 10.2" Widescreen WSVGA, 802.11 b/g, Bluetooth, Webcam, Windows XP Home (Blue) - NP-NC10-KA02US - Up to 8 hours of battery
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Most computers seem to work as long as the windows is updated to latest service pack and also .net and ftdi loaded. First thing before installing any software that greg lists the user should also go to:
http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com (http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com) and make sure that latest m$ stuff is installed. After that you can install these in the order below:
Net Framework (might be required) http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=333325FD-AE52-4E35-B531-508D977D32A6&displaylang=en
Driver from FTDIchip.com http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/CDM/CDM%202.04.16.exe
ECU Editor 2.0 http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/ecueditor2.0/ecueditor_prerelease.htm
Anyhow the flashing speed is highly dependent on computer speed. My Vista 64 3.1ghz takes about a minute for a full flash where as the xp takes around 9 minutes.
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Have a question on the Yosh connector ............ on the bike it has two spare pinnings available but on the Yosh Box itself (pic shown) there is only one unused pin. After repinning bike plug can the Yosh box still be used or will Data or voltage (not sure what comes from that pin on Yosh box) be fed into ECU thru the new pinned wire ? Could this damage or be detrimental to the ECU ?
Thanks and Cheers
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We have not tested that yet, as all the rewired for flashing bikes should have a sticker. That pin is not used for anything in suzukis so I (or someone who is faster) needs to open the yoshbox and test where it goes and compare it to the schematics. As we are pinning fwe or reset there the bike may not react to yoshbox tuning unless that unnecessary 7th pin is removed.
Here is a link to the schematic of an Yoshbox http://www.chucksirois.com/tl1000/BuildaYosh.doc (http://www.chucksirois.com/tl1000/BuildaYosh.doc)
And here is a link to how yoshi can be connected to a kawi. http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=99460&p=3&topicID=9326544 (http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=99460&p=3&topicID=9326544)
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Someone "faster" :D Given it took you ten minutes to reply "Sir" I can see why they call you "the man" Thanks for the reply and also your results like all here greatly appreciated. If ever you choose the Aussie outback for a holiday instead of the jungle .............. I'm sure we could accomodate you :thumb:
Cheers
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all right guys I am trying as hard as I can LOL, got 5 setups done, not done with directions yet still working on those. Damn hate having a day time job sometimes.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1209.jpg)
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Hey Petrik/smithabusa, I am getting ready to do a 40 shot on my 2008 and want/need to add more fuel to the bike.
Is the ecu flashing now capable of that, or do I still need a PCv/Bazazz at this point? Trying to go low buck on this so any help in saving $$$ will be appreciated. 8)
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Hey Petrik/smithabusa, I am getting ready to do a 40 shot on my 2008 and want/need to add more fuel to the bike.
Is the ecu flashing now capable of that, or do I still need a PCv/Bazazz at this point? Trying to go low buck on this so any help in saving $$$ will be appreciated. 8)
Working on next release that should correct some bugs in fuel map tuning. Should be out for testing in a couple of days.
Its up to anyones personal choise which tuning tool he/she prefers to use, at the end ecueditor is a busa community effort and the users need to accept that its never going to be a polished finished product with glossy materials, warranties, etc. If you want to have those then go for the commercial products. Also its good to remember that Greg who sells the interfaces makes a donation of sold units for DaveOs family for community support.
http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=140919.msg1338570#new
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Per Petrik on ecu hack forum...
New build 2.0.1.0 is avail for testing including
- Fixed fuel map tuning, was using cyl0 or cyl1 depending on fast/normal mode. Now using cyl0 as basemap for everything.
- Added derestriction and STP control
- some minor other fixes and improvements
http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/ecueditor2.0/ecueditor_prerelease.htm
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Can you hack and change all the fuel settings for say swapping in different size injectors for the secondaries on turbo applications? Make the the secondaries come on sooner or later for acting the same as a microtech if you had dual pw3usb's installed for boost referencing?
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Can you hack and change all the fuel settings for say swapping in different size injectors for the secondaries on turbo applications? Make the the secondaries come on sooner or later for acting the same as a microtech if you had dual pw3usb's installed for boost referencing?
Yep - can make secondaries come later, but unfortunately as we know today the fuel injector size can be defined for all 8 injectors simultaneously - so all 8 must be changed (anyhow it may be possible to find a way around this). But to be realistics lets make basics first tested and then progress to advanced stuff. We are still in the testing phase.
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Can you hack and change all the fuel settings for say swapping in different size injectors for the secondaries on turbo applications? Make the the secondaries come on sooner or later for acting the same as a microtech if you had dual pw3usb's installed for boost referencing?
Yep - can make secondaries come later, but unfortunately as we know today the fuel injector size can be defined for all 8 injectors simultaneously - so all 8 must be changed (anyhow it may be possible to find a way around this). But to be realistics lets make basics first tested and then progress to advanced stuff. We are still in the testing phase.
Well am buying the stuff now and getting it ready to where i would be able to be a ginnue pig. Im lowering the compression and wanting to take it past what the stock sets of injectors will run to (315hp). So since the the s2000 injector is very common on the gen1's to swap out then why can't they swap out with the gen2's? So if possible then whats the size difference between the gen2 stock injector and the s2000 injector? A little further take and swap all 8 injectors and you would think that 450hp would be possible?
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Will the s2000 injector fit the stock injector clips or will i have to swap and rewire new clips to fit the s2000 injector? What changes will I have to make to the ecu when switching the injectors?
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Couple more things, got a rough draft of directions for gen 2 boys :)
Directions Link (0.5 meg, right click and "SAVE AS"
www.boostbysmith.com/gen2.pdf
Also have a starter video showing how to connect device etc. Just showing how to connect to proper com port (If using vista you still have to go in and set to run program as administrator), connect to engine data, flash a base map etc.
Video Link (10.5 meg, right click and "SAVE AS"
www.boostbysmith.com/Videos/gen2ecu1.wmv
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:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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its still running greg ,with -1 front sprocket and +2 in the rear i can still run away from the rest of the n/a bikes on the freeway :hys:
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sweet :)
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I have 10 units on the shelf ready to ship
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How much for the unit and everything to go with?
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Retail is going to be $200 plus shipping, for early pre release i am doing $150 shipped in the usa, sold a bunch this morning, not a whole lot left at this price.
paypal is sales@boostbysmith.com
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What suggestions do you have for changing the settings on a turbo 08? i.e. soft/hard rev limiters, raise or lower the rpm red line, any others you would change for a turbo instead of just for a NA bike? Please set one aside for me. Will pay first thing in the morning when my paycheck gets direct deposited at midnight tonight!
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What suggestions do you have for changing the settings on a turbo 08? i.e. soft/hard rev limiters, raise or lower the rpm red line, any others you would change for a turbo instead of just for a NA bike? Please set one aside for me. Will pay first thing in the morning when my paycheck gets direct deposited at midnight tonight!
i have done one with 12,000 rev,hard cut,but with different software....
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What suggestions do you have for changing the settings on a turbo 08? i.e. soft/hard rev limiters, raise or lower the rpm red line, any others you would change for a turbo instead of just for a NA bike? Please set one aside for me. Will pay first thing in the morning when my paycheck gets direct deposited at midnight tonight!
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What suggestions do you have for changing the settings on a turbo 08? i.e. soft/hard rev limiters, raise or lower the rpm red line, any others you would change for a turbo instead of just for a NA bike? Please set one aside for me. Will pay first thing in the morning when my paycheck gets direct deposited at midnight tonight!
i have done one
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Egarms I think I have 1 left please send payment asap and note in the transactions your screen name so I know its you. Its getting hard to track who is who amd so many leaving right now not sure who is who lol
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Egarms I think I have 1 left please send payment asap and note in the transactions your screen name so I know its you. Its getting hard to track who is who amd so many leaving right now not sure who is who lol
Ok i just sent the the monay this morning at 7:38am MST. My paypal account is the same as my screen name.
Please send to:
Evan Garms
9758 Laredo St #8A
Commerce city, Co 80022
Thanks again for holding one for me til the morning smithabusa!
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In latest version of hayabusa ecueditor2 software there is a very crude AFR monitor using the factory oxygen sensor that gen2 busas have as stock.
The factory oxygen sensor is somewhat limited in its accuracy and capability to recognize rich and lean mixtures. Also the output is somewhat depending on the exhaust temperatures. Therefore do not recommend to use this for serious tuning, but hope it be a handy tool for quick AFR checks and tuning the IAP map and cruising area.
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/gen2/gen2datastream.jpg)
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awesome work Petrik! I am surprised there doesn't seem to be more commotion from this site regarding gen 2 flashing.
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awesome work Petrik! I am surprised there doesn't seem to be more commotion from this site regarding gen 2 flashing.
i get alot of pm's from all the sites and phone calls EVERY day concerning flashing and on the most part is i hear that "i am no good with computers",people are STILL? scared to acess the internal memory of the ecu.The people know that a piggyback is external and if they make a mistake that they could just unplug it and it will be stock again,nothing changed to the inside,thats where we all come in that support ecu flashing and try to educate the public on flashing,and if it is done correctly nothing but good can come out of it.Also on various other sites i see ALL the time,and i know of many BIGGER motorcycle shops and tuners telling everyone that if your nit careful that a new motor will be in order that mayjor dammage can and will occur without proper testing/tuning,and people listen because of their status in the motorcycle community.I do ecu changes for a mayjor race team because they are hesitant to change the binary in the ecu on some race bikes??In all do time with proper training and more users it will thrive.Yourself and petrik have done alot.you with your plug-n-play stuff and petrik with the most user friendly,compreshensive software that someone could develop,and yet there still is doubt....give it time to grow it will catch on............ :thumb:
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awesome work Petrik! I am surprised there doesn't seem to be more commotion from this site regarding gen 2 flashing.
I just bought a new GenII flasher from greg. I live in Denver and i will tell you NO ONE knows anything about tuning the stock ecu at ANY shop! I just getting into it and will be lowering the compression on my 08 and upping the boost. I have read so much stuff about the flashing that your turbo bike runs just that much better with it. In the end it just makes sense to learn and be that much more ahead of the person you are racing against! IMO. I will eventually be swapping out all 8 stock injectors with s2000 injectors. I will be the ginuea pig so to say since im sure (correct me if im wrong) no one else has done it yet on the 08's. So im very curious of what the outcome will be. I will keep everyone in on the loop when i start to work on it here around the august/september time. I would also like to give a big shout out to PetriK and smithabusa, for the hard work they have put in so that the ones that are chomping at the bit to get better can use it towards our advantage! Keep up the good work guys!
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i do flashing on 2 08's with turbo's that both make over 450 hp.....to make that kind of power or more will take some work without secondary supplemental injectors,i am working on this with a gen1 but on the gen2 the sum of both sets of injectors equal to 100% of the fuel delivery.at this time there is no seperate control of the injectors seperately,i have mentioned it to petrik...only the future will tell......(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm108/stocker2008photos/030-Copy2.jpg)
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i do flashing on 2 08's with turbo's that both make over 450 hp.....to make that kind of power or more will take some work without secondary supplemental injectors,i am working on this with a gen1 but on the gen2 the sum of both sets of injectors equal to 100% of the fuel delivery.at this time there is no seperate control of the injectors seperately,i have mentioned it to petrik...only the future will tell......(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm108/stocker2008photos/030-Copy2.jpg)
What all mods to the fuel system did you change to get 450hp from the stock 8 injector setup? or did you have to install a microtech with another 4 injector's? Are you running a dual pc3usb setup one for the primaries and one for the secondaries?
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microtech with supplemental injectors...the map above is a total sum of the injectors in %.If there was a way to control them seperately that would effectively double you fuel flow rate that potentially be delivered to the engine....notice the map above and see how the primary injector flow goes down as rpm goes up and the secondary injectors make up the difference to 100%...
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Wouldn't you be able to control both sets of injectors differently with a dual pc3usb setup installed? I thought also that PetriK said you could change when the secondaries came on, adjust them a little later to come in or a little earlier which ever your app calls for? Couldn't you just make the secondaries come on later and have the primaries stay on longer with 100% pulse width or 95% for more longevity purposes? You should be able to get more fuel that way.
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all the pc3 can do is modify the signal coming from the ecu,so if you have a signal that produces say50% duty cycle and then you add 50% to the pc3 that would be 100%,but if the factory signal produces a 100% signal and you add 50% you have 150% signal,if the injector flow rate can handle it then great,but the problem that i have seen is that with the pc3 box maxed out it runs out of signal to amplify,and the injector can flow more,but there is no more pw available does that make sense???it sounds weird,but seen and heard of this in real world conditions??as far as the secondary throttle valve assembly,petrik will have to answer if he knows of the direct relation of fuel to stva opening.
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Ok i gotcha ya. so even if you have a dual pc3 setup with a split signal from the ecu one for the primaries and one for the secondaries, you can modify the ecu signal with the flasher then have a little more left over to give to the dual pc3's right? I believe that the stock 8 injectors will max out of power around 310hp. on a gen1 busa how much power will the stock injectors run on a fmu type system then change out to s2000's how much more hp capability do you have comparatively? then take the same principle and swap out all 8 stock injectors to s2000's, how much more hp would you think you run comparatively? aren't the s2000's ~380cc's? with an fmu system and the higher pressure you could get a lot of power potential with 8 s2000's or would going to a 1:1 regulator be a better way to go?
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Also not to take the topic but have you messed any at all with the KMS secondary fuel controller setup that BigCC runs? I have sent emails to him and he never gets back to me. tried to see who all knows how to tune his software or if maybe its a little easier to use than the microtech? Or maybe we can just wait for PetriK to make it where we would be able to controll both sets of injectors differently and get all we need with just the stock ECU and a pc3! He is up in the god status for tuning around here you know. :D
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yes and no,with ee2 there is no provision to do that,the picture with the dual injector distrubution map is special software that not available to the public...sorry,this is what i suggested to petrik so maybe it will be implemented in ee2.
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yes petrik is a software and tuning guru,with the software i use it is very different and very complex and very easy to go worng quick,i can change the secondary injectors and thats why i suggested it to petrik on the hackboard so maybe he could implement it in ee2.
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the new guage face on ee2 is very nice petrik!!
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yes and no,with ee2 there is no provision to do that,the picture with the dual injector distrubution map is special software that not available to the public...sorry,this is what i suggested to petrik so maybe it will be implemented in ee2.
And what is ee2? so in other words with ee2 you could just change injectors and be able to fuel whatever you needed correct? is there talk about a new software coming available here in the near future?
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EcuEditorv2.0=ee2
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ecudeitor you are able to edit your fuel maps,iap,tps...but no seperate control for the secondary injectors.The picture was a reference for everyone to "see" how suzuki handles the primary/secondary duties in rpm/vs/%.this is what i was suggesting that would be a useable feature for ecu editor,possibly for the turbo,and nitrous guy's.Petrik's software is one of the most user friendly,well rounded,well thought-up and developed software for the public.The software i use is very advanced and very complicated to use and the chances for error is very high for the normal user.Petrik has even found a problem with the one i use and was very kind as to point out the difference for it to be fixed in the software...and i thank him,If everyone ever knew how much time he has involved in his project...it is staggering.... hang in there,the software has just been released,i can just imagine what the future holds for his project................. :thumb:
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so in the mean time i am starting to order everything for my motor on lowering the compression. hopefully that when i have everything and getting my motor built that the option for injector sets will be separated. until then just keep in on the loop and see what happens! thanks stocker64 for everything you have done as well.
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let me know if you need any parts, can probably save you money on studs, base spacer, head gasket, adj cam sprockets etc if you need any of that stuff
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let me know if you need any parts, can probably save you money on studs, base spacer, head gasket, adj cam sprockets etc if you need any of that stuff
I will surely be giving you a heads up when i go to order everything. was also going to be getting some prices from you for a couple of other things as well. Will shoot you over a pm when im ready to order which should be here in a week or two.
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cool :)
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A pic or 2..
My bench flashing harness as well as some units I have been working on, 5 of which are paid for, just waiting on the harnesses to get here on wednesday. 12 looking for homes.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1287.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1289-1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1290.jpg)
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i'll take a bench harness w/power surply....how much?do you have any made to sell???
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Got 3
5 grand each :)
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Got 3
5 grand each :)
yo, where is my box dog? hit me up i need 1 got bikes 2 do :D
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Got 3
5 grand each :)
man you really want a gen2 bad don't you....... :TNOS:
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Yes I do, just gotta sell 2 and I can get me a new bike
Rick, waiting on bike harnesses, a few month days ;)
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i really dont need the harness i'll just do them on my bike then swap um out :thumb:
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oh oh, gotcha, cool well i have a box for ya. :thumb: i can stop by your shop one day after work if ya want.
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Ok first test run with new flashed ECU for a turbo is good! I readjusted and made 11700rpms rev limit (which included 6th gear) with hardcut only and reprogramed the stp derestricted 2&3 gears. I will update as i put miles on the bike this next week. Thanks PetriK, smithabusa and stocker64 for the help on what to adjust and get the flasher to do it! Going to the track on wednesday and will let you know what numbers I run. I just have one question, on the advanced settings menu there is a tab for fuel injector and then lists 120 with increments of 10 to adjust. It doesnt label what type number that is, whether it be psi or pulse width. what number is it talking about?
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oh oh, gotcha, cool well i have a box for ya. :thumb: i can stop by your shop one day after work if ya want.
cool, hey, i'll be in stockbridge on sun aug.2 down town for sport bike day we will have a tent set up if ya wanna come by.12- 4pm
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I just have one question, on the advanced settings menu there is a tab for fuel injector and then lists 120 with increments of 10 to adjust. It doesnt label what type number that is, whether it be psi or pulse width. what number is it talking about?
That was intended to be an injector sizing parameter, but will remove it as the BOOST FUELLING will be operating slightly differently.
Yes, I am currently testing how to put a GM 3bar sensor to replace the stock IAP sensor and then configure ecu to provide fuelling for boost.
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Really, sweet, that's 1 mile from my house lol
Didn't realize it was happening, sweet
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I just have one question, on the advanced settings menu there is a tab for fuel injector and then lists 120 with increments of 10 to adjust. It doesnt label what type number that is, whether it be psi or pulse width. what number is it talking about?
That was intended to be an injector sizing parameter, but will remove it as the BOOST FUELLING will be operating slightly differently.
Yes, I am currently testing how to put a GM 3bar sensor to replace the stock IAP sensor and then configure ecu to provide fuelling for boost.
So when you have the 3bar IAP sensor installed and ecu to compensate for fuelling then you could tune for a turbo just by using the stock ECU? no need for a power commander? when i went throught and flashed the ECU it was reading 120 for the fuel injectors tab and so i just left it at 120. should i put to some other number or leave as is?
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So when you have the 3bar IAP sensor installed and ecu to compensate for fuelling then you could tune for a turbo just by using the stock ECU? no need for a power commander? when i went throught and flashed the ECU it was reading 120 for the fuel injectors tab and so i just left it at 120. should i put to some other number or leave as is?
Just leave it to 120, thats default. Next versions will nothave that at all.
About boost fuelling, yes - thats te intention. The plan is just to replace the IAP sensor with GM 3bar.
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thanks again for all the hard work you put in on more tuning capabilities with the stock ecu. let us know on future updates as well!
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thanks petrik,for the consideriation on the fueling thing,now if i can get it implemented in gen1 all bases will be covered....... :wink:
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If this could be made to work would be killer :). Stage 2 turbo setups just got a lot cheaper :)
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Greg, have faith... wrote and tested this today and it seems to work quite well on desktop. Only one dimensional boost fuelling to start with, ie. fuel added only based on boost levels. Lets see if there will be any real need for this as I dont need boost based fuelling, just wanted to know how hard it would be to implement something like this.
The way this works is the following (after we get the IAP to GM3 sensor conversion data fixed)
1) Replace IAP sensor with GM 3bar sensor
2) Activate Boost fuelling with ECUeditor
3) Set the basic fuelling for boost columns.
4) Tune the TPS map as normally for power
5) Tune the IAP maps normally for driveability
Build 2.0.3.9
- Preliminary turbo boost based fuelling added as part of the ecu code. In this version the tables can not yet be modified by the users - will be added later when there is a real need.
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/gen2/boostfuel.jpg)
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thank you petrik........marc...... :thumb:
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Wow this shit is getting exciting! PetriK you are the man.
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Wow this shit is getting exciting!
Thanks, in time if this feature works as expected and gets adapted we can add e.g.
- A full 3d map with RPM / Boost points
- Some level of map tracing to boost map for tuning
- Safety limits, e.g. if 1.3bar is exceeded due to a failure in hosing the fuel and injection will be automatically cut off or at minimum FI light turned on
- Lean limits, eg. turning on FI light if the stock O2 sensor detects lean condition under boost
This all is pending now testing what is ready already today (yes, now also the fuel add% per kPa area mapping works). I dont have plans to own a turbo, so its down to you guys to check this out and see what you think.
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I dont have any data logging equipement yet. Sounds like I need to get some and i can start to tune the stock engine stage 1 kit and then test the lowered compression motor after that. Are you going to be hopefully be finding a way to seperate the control between the injector sets to have more fuel flow?
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I noticed that on the following boost fuel menu it only lists 130kPa or ~19psi as max adjustability. Will the 3bar map sensor fix that for more boost or is that for menu for the 3bar map sensor? What would happen if you went past that 19psi threshold?
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Are you going to be hopefully finding a way to seperate the control between the injector sets to have more fuel flow?
Sorry - dont yunderstand the question, really ? Could you elaborate on that a bit ?
The motor control unit (MCU / ECU) has internal tables that define when secondary injectors are brought into the play. After that point (gradually around 6000rpm, 70-100% throttle) the pulse is delivering fuel from both injectors. Before that point it is the role of primary injectors to deliver fuel. This injector balancing map is used to maximize the torque at lower RPM, but should not affect the total fuel capacity delivery as such. On the other hand we dont want to bring in the secondaries too soon as throwing fuel on the valves just generates vapour and does not cool down the charge. So timely delivery through primaries is more effective and should keep cylinder temps also lower. When the secondaries come into play the both injectors deliver all they got so tuning the map does not affect total delivery as I understand it.
Anyhow of course we can tune the injector balancing maps, just have not implemented it yet as dont see the point for it.
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The 130kPa, limit on map was chosen based on some multipliers in the system which effectively prevents delivering more fuel from stock system (now you can get around 127%). If you have elevated fuel pressure (e.g. 1:1 regulator) or larger secondaries then we can raise that limit to the 2bar level which is the max for 3bar sensor. -1 to 2 bars if we are talking about the same sensor. Those numbers are easily editable.
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Sorry - dont yunderstand the question, really ? Could you elaborate on that a bit ?
What I was asking about was from the balacing of the injector sets. when i was talking to stocker64 about it, it sounded to me like once in the upper rpms the primaries were indeed firing but it was at a lower percentage and more on the secondaries and it was on both combined percentages of the two would be 100% fuel command. Is there a way to have the sets seperated and be able to command 100% to each set of injectors? then if you were to add s2000 injectors for all 8 for when you max the stock injectors out you would be able to get more fuel from the stock ECU. therefore you would have much more fuel or maybe what i am talking about is what your talking about in the balancing of the sets. i may be talking over my head but hopefully you get more of what i was trying to say.
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The 130kPa, limit on map was chosen based on some multipliers in the system which effectively prevents delivering more fuel from stock system (now you can get around 127%). If you have elevated fuel pressure (e.g. 1:1 regulator) or larger secondaries then we can raise that limit to the 2bar level which is the max for 3bar sensor. -1 to 2 bars if we are talking about the same sensor. Those numbers are easily editable.
Thats what i was asking about. yes i have an fmu for my stage 1 but will be swapping it out for 1:1 regulator when i lower compression on my motor. Just asking to see if in the future you have a built motor and ~28psi is in the menu for being able to handle the boost. thanks for the updates.
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What I was asking about was from the balacing of the injector sets. when i was talking to stocker64 about it, it sounded to me like once in the upper rpms the primaries were indeed firing but it was at a lower percentage and more on the secondaries and it was on both combined percentages of the two would be 100% fuel command. Is there a way to have the sets seperated and be able to command 100% to each set of injectors? then if you were to add s2000 injectors for all 8 for when you max the stock injectors out you would be able to get more fuel from the stock ECU. therefore you would have much more fuel or maybe what i am talking about is what your talking about in the balancing of the sets. i may be talking over my head but hopefully you get more of what i was trying to say.
Oh - I am not seeing that happening when testing the fuel system, what I see and (measured with an oscilloscope) is the following, but of course its possible that I make also errors. On the other hand just verified this before posting the message.
1) LowRPM, LowTPS = Only primaries are firing
2) MidRPM, Mid to highTPS = Secondaries start to fire when primaries are reaching about 100% duty cycle
3) HighRPM, HighTPS = Both injectors firing, if fuel pulsewidth allows less opening time the secondaries keep on firing with full duty but primaries are the ones where the pulse is first gettings smaller.
So under high load both sets of injectors are working fully.
This is in line with tuning theory. Low RPM use primaries, High RPM use Secondaries. For full power use both.
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That answers all of my questions. I will be locating some datalogging equipement in the next couple weeks and once i get that installed I will try the ECU boosting fuel option and will let you know how it goes. then i will be lowering my compression and start tuning for that as well. Thanks for catering to us turbo guys in your tuning expertise!
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Tomorrow ups is bringing me 45 harnesses :). So everyone who has paid will go out thursday, I have to mod the directions they messed up my wire color coding so ill take some new pics on what to match up on the 2 wires that go from ecu to yosh female connector on bike.
Got a number of guys saying they are going to buy once available
It'll be first come first serve on the 7 or 8 or so left
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My 08 has a swithable TRE,pipe,pc3,and has been dyno tuned,besides setting the rev limiter higher without effecting your fuel map like the TRE does,what else will the ECU flasher do for a stocker?I think I saw in here that the stock ECU has some timing limiters in certain gears is that correct.
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Be Able to view all sensor data live on the bike for diagnostics, troubleshooting
Adjust Rev limiters
Change limiter type to hard cut to avoid engine damage on nos / turbos etc
Adjust fueling by working with all injectors
Apply currently used PCV and Bazzaz maps (testing phase still)
Adjust ignition
Remove Restrictions
Ability to run 6th gear ignition map in all gears
Ability to run boost referenced fueling for turbos using a 3 bar gm map sensor (testing phase still)
Ability to run dual maps for NOS / Turbo / Race Fuel etc
Most of that isn't useful on a bone stock bike, but if you start modding could be very useful.
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Be Able to view all sensor data live on the bike for diagnostics, troubleshooting
Adjust Rev limiters
Change limiter type to hard cut to avoid engine damage on nos / turbos etc
Adjust fueling by working with all injectors
Apply currently used PCV and Bazzaz maps (testing phase still)
Adjust ignition
Remove Restrictions
Ability to run 6th gear ignition map in all gears
Ability to run boost referenced fueling for turbos using a 3 bar gm map sensor (testing phase still)
Ability to run dual maps for NOS / Turbo / Race Fuel etc
Most of that isn't useful on a bone stock bike, but if you start modding could be very useful.
But for the guys like me that have not done this type of thing before, how easy is it to roll up our sleeves and do this?
I have a simple 40shot on the bike with Akro pipe.
Airshifter soon.
Fueling and top speed derestriction are all I care about.
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take a look at the video i made, pretty easy in my opinion.
www.boostbysmith.com/Videos/gen2ecu1.wmv
gen 1 videos,
Setting up proper comports
www.boostbysmith.com/Videos/ecuvideo1.wmv
Setting up FTD for flashing
www.boostbysmith.com/Videos/ecuvideo2.wmv
Basic Fuel / Ignition / Rev Limiter Changes
www.boostbysmith.com/Videos/ecuvideo3.wmv
More Advanced Nitrous Tuning using MS feature, window, wot, etc.
www.boostbysmith.com/Videos/ecuvideo4.wmv
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First time for me installing a flasher for my 08. took me about 15 minutes because the connectors that install in the ecu connector had to be inserted pretty good to click. other than that it was a piece of cake. really simple and smithabusa has pictures and videos if you are in any way uncertian what you were doing was right. go for the flasher!
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Hell you are in michigan right? Come on over to my house and we can put it on and ill show you how it works
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Hell you are in michigan right? Come on over to my house and we can put it on and ill show you how it works
now thats customer service there............................ :lol:
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Hell you are in michigan right? Come on over to my house and we can put it on and ill show you how it works
I will send you a PM concerning this offer. Thank you. Maybe my PC5 is headed back for a refund.
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Everyone who has purchased is getting shipped tomorrow :thumb:
Thanks for your business, happy flashing :)
Greg
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greg, you forgot to mention that you can use an ignition kill in the ecu also for air shifters :thumb:
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Be Able to view all sensor data live on the bike for diagnostics, troubleshooting
Adjust Rev limiters
Change limiter type to hard cut to avoid engine damage on nos / turbos etc
Adjust fueling by working with all injectors
Apply currently used PCV and Bazzaz maps (testing phase still)
Adjust ignition
Remove Restrictions
Ability to run 6th gear ignition map in all gears
Ability to run boost referenced fueling for turbos using a 3 bar gm map sensor (testing phase still)
Ability to run dual maps for NOS / Turbo / Race Fuel etc
(greg, you forgot to mention that you can use an ignition kill in the ecu also for air shifters )
Not to forget that with sensordata you can also do a quick check to the AFR using the stock oxygen sensor just by plugging in your laptop ... should help diagnosing some problems. Also you can check the injector (aka battery) voltage for problems with charging system. Not promising anything, but maybe in the future we will develop a datalogging capability so that you can put the laptop in a backbag and log cruising around the corner.
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/gen2/gen2_afrcheck.jpg)
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can you run a bigger shot of dry nitrous using this setup? and can you see injector duty cycle with this program?
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Has Petrik figured out how to control both injectors?
There is too much reading I am getting dizzy...
THanks in advance............
EGARMS please email me your nimber I have some????????? To gixxer272@comcast.net
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both of the injectors are used,at the lower rpm's the primary injectors are used more,as rpm goes up,the ecu starts to share the load,and gradually lowers the duty cycle on the primary and starts increaseing the secondary duty cylcle for the sum of 100% between both sets.Petrik ahs pointed out a great point from a design standpoint and that with the primary and secondary injectors are at different angles in the tb's due to the fact that the engineerers designed this for optimum fuel atomization as the engine traverses through the rpm band. is this a turbo bike that i may have talked to you on the phone last week?
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Has Petrik figured out how to control both injectors?
The injector control has always been there, I really dont understand the question ? Like Marc explained Suzuki has made a very clever control to distribute the fuel with most optimum way. As long as you use ecu to add fuel then ecu also splits the load between injectors. In case one set of injectors is not enought then ecu uses the other set of injectors for additional capacity. At low rpm the primaries are main fuelling control, at high rpm the main fuelling control is given to secondaties but the other set always is turned on when duty cycle is getting close to 100% for the controlling injectors.
Only thing I dont understand is that they turn off the secondaries when coolant temperature gets too hot.
Have not implemented the duty cycle yet. Lets see when this gets more widely used if there is a need for that.
Size of nitrous shot is limited by the total capacity of injectors and fuel pump, I guess those will run out at around 300-350hp.
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Mines a turbo............When at full throttle are the primaries like 20% or 0%? Just looking for more full controll. Is there a big difference in size from the primaries and secondaries?
If I put to set of secondaries in jectors in the bike will that benifet at all? Which I have but not put in.
Duty cycle would be n ice to see if you are maxing the injectors out.
Petrik earlier you said if the secondaries need help when maxed the computer activates the primaries to help them? I dont think I understood that part...
Also is there any data logging for drag racing using the EE2?
Or should I leave my MSD-SB6 on the bike?
All in all I should get my flashing stuff today. My motor will be back in my bike after a costly mistake.
Will keep you guys informed when we start to tune it.
Thanks again and Great work
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Has Petrik figured out how to control both injectors?
There is too much reading I am getting dizzy...
THanks in advance............
EGARMS please email me your nimber I have some????????? To gixxer272@comcast.net
Ok email sent
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Mines a turbo............When at full throttle are the primaries like 20% or 0%? Just looking for more full controll. Is there a big difference in size from the primaries and secondaries?
I still dont understand what you guys are asking about more control over injectors, what more than full fuelflow to the max capacity you would like to have to get more power ?
Its more like 90% primaries and 90% secondaries at the same time when I have tested the turbotools module for ecueditor with higher pulsewidth settings.
Duty cycle is relative and highly dependent on rpm, can look into it at some point.
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Mines a turbo............When at full throttle are the primaries like 20% or 0%? Just looking for more full controll. Is there a big difference in size from the primaries and secondaries?
I still dont understand what you guys are asking about more control over injectors, what more than full fuelflow to the max capacity you would like to have to get more power ?
Its more like 90% primaries and 90% secondaries at the same time when I have tested the turbotools module for ecueditor with higher pulsewidth settings.
Duty cycle is relative and highly dependent on rpm, can look into it at some point.
It didn't click right away with me when talking to stocker64 but after talking to you PetriK what stocker64 made sense. It was the balancing of the injectors was what i didn't get right away. Have you gotten any further with the 3bar map sensor yet?
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Jep - what I am curious is that why people think that primary vs. secondary injectors are either or ? According to testing its all on when needed - so therefore dont understand this at all? Maybe I have it wrong somehow ? Therefore would like to understand why this kind of questions are arising ?
About 3bar, I dont have a 3bar sensor to test. Maybe I should look from the shop for one or just mailorder one, but have not had time. We will get it right when first bike is getting to the dyno. All we need is to check how close the kPa/Psi values are and if any difference adjust that.
When have some extra time will also look into wastegate solenoid control. I will personally need this kind of duty cycle control for nitrous, but it will be exactly the same method for boost control so most likely will first implement that for turbos anyway.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/469boy/2008HayabusaInjectorDutyCycle.jpg?t=1249062872)
This was my stock 08 Dyno chart with the injector duty cycle. Maybe this will help some Petrik
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sweet that sure helps me visualize it :D
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Mines a turbo............When at full throttle are the primaries like 20% or 0%? Just looking for more full controll. Is there a big difference in size from the primaries and secondaries?
I still dont understand what you guys are asking about more control over injectors, what more than full fuelflow to the max capacity you would like to have to get more power ?
Its more like 90% primaries and 90% secondaries at the same time when I have tested the turbotools module for ecueditor with higher pulsewidth settings.
Duty cycle is relative and highly dependent on rpm, can look into it at some point.
I think most assumed that the secondary injectors worked similar to the way add-on secondary injectors work for a turbo setup. The bikes cruises around under low power requirements on the primary injectors adn the secondaries don't spray until the manifold pressure increases and power requires more fuel. In fact it seems that the injectors just act as more efficient injectors with less flow (half) per injector, effectively making the fuel atomize better.
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I think most assumed that the secondary injectors worked similar to the way add-on secondary injectors work for a turbo setup. The bikes cruises around under low power requirements on the primary injectors and the secondaries don't spray until the manifold pressure increases and power requires more fuel. In fact it seems that the injectors just act as more efficient injectors with less flow (half) per injector, effectively making the fuel atomize better.
[/quote]
Thats what i thought at first. Once I had it told to me in a different way it made more sense why they did what they did. Sorry I brought up the topic about the primaries and secondaries. Was just trying to understand a little bit better on how they worked.
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I think most assumed that the secondary injectors worked similar to the way add-on secondary injectors work for a turbo setup. The bikes cruises around under low power requirements on the primary injectors and the secondaries don't spray until the manifold pressure increases and power requires more fuel. In fact it seems that the injectors just act as more efficient injectors with less flow (half) per injector, effectively making the fuel atomize better.
Thats what i thought at first. Once I had it told to me in a different way it made more sense why they did what they did. Sorry I brought up the topic about the primaries and secondaries. Was just trying to understand a little bit better on how they worked.
[/quote]
Look at dyno chart
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Look at dyno chart
Lets try to clarify this so that we all are in 100% understanding...
I can understand the dyno chart. Primaries control at low rpm, secondaries have control at higher rpm. That is in line with tuning theory of the injector positioning in intake. On the other hand in that dyno chart the pulsewidth at higher rpm is not even close to secondaries duty cycle maximum so we dont see what would be happening when there is demand for more fuel. This is also the point where I am getting confused.
Unfortunately I dont have a duty cycle measurement gauges on my desktop, but when e.g. air pressure is increased from 101kpa to 130kpa I can see the duty cycle (measured by oscilliscope and led brightness) of primaries going up still 10000rpm/100% tps, which is after the point when secondaries can not give more juice.
See the point where I can not understand ?
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Look at dyno chart
Lets try to clarify this so that we all are in 100% understanding...
I can understand the dyno chart. Primaries control at low rpm, secondaries have control at higher rpm. That is in line with tuning theory of the injector positioning in intake. On the other hand in that dyno chart the pulsewidth at higher rpm is not even close to secondaries duty cycle maximum so we dont see what would be happening when there is demand for more fuel. This is also the point where I am getting confused.
Unfortunately I dont have a duty cycle measurement gauges on my desktop, but when e.g. air pressure is increased from 101kpa to 130kpa I can see the duty cycle (measured by oscilliscope and led brightness) of primaries going up still 10000rpm/100% tps, which is after the point when secondaries can not give more juice.
See the point where I can not understand ?
Now i see where you are coming from :wink: Hmmmmmmm
Ok i just edited this post to throw some ideas
The primary's and secondary's are placed in the throttle body's in specific places to help with atomization. The Secondary's are set up so that they hit the secondary throttle body blades to even help further in atomization. It might just be a theory but i think they might of done it to help with atomization in a way. But i could be way off base lol . I wish i had the tools right now to do more testing to try to help at this time but i don't.
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I think most assumed that the secondary injectors worked similar to the way add-on secondary injectors work for a turbo setup. The bikes cruises around under low power requirements on the primary injectors and the secondaries don't spray until the manifold pressure increases and power requires more fuel. In fact it seems that the injectors just act as more efficient injectors with less flow (half) per injector, effectively making the fuel atomize better.
Thats what i thought at first. Once I had it told to me in a different way it made more sense why they did what they did. Sorry I brought up the topic about the primaries and secondaries. Was just trying to understand a little bit better on how they worked.
Look at dyno chart
[/quote]
I had asked the question way before you put on the dyno chart. After looking at the dyno chart I see exactly what is going on. I understood after talking to PetriK and clarifying some of the questions i had asked. I am good now and understand what is fully going on. No more questions from me about primaries and secondaries!
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I think most assumed that the secondary injectors worked similar to the way add-on secondary injectors work for a turbo setup. The bikes cruises around under low power requirements on the primary injectors and the secondaries don't spray until the manifold pressure increases and power requires more fuel. In fact it seems that the injectors just act as more efficient injectors with less flow (half) per injector, effectively making the fuel atomize better.
Thats what i thought at first. Once I had it told to me in a different way it made more sense why they did what they did. Sorry I brought up the topic about the primaries and secondaries. Was just trying to understand a little bit better on how they worked.
Look at dyno chart
I had asked the question way before you put on the dyno chart. After looking at the dyno chart I see exactly what is going on. I understood after talking to PetriK and clarifying some of the questions i had asked. I am good now and understand what is fully going on. No more questions from me about primaries and secondaries!
[/quote]
Sorry if i came off wrong in any way Questions are always good I will Apologize . Now we need to figure out why Suzuki has the primary and secondary injectors cross over like they due when you still have a lot of duty cycle still left in the primary's
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[/quote]
Now i see where you are coming from :wink: Hmmmmmmm
Ok i just edited this post to throw some ideas
The primary's and secondary's are placed in the throttle body's in specific places to help with atomization. The Secondary's are set up so that they hit the secondary throttle body blades to even help further in atomization. It might just be a theory but i think they might of done it to help with atomization in a way. But i could be way off base lol . I wish i had the tools right now to do more testing to try to help at this time but i don't.
[/quote]
Most turbo bikes remove the secondairy throttle plates....Thats what I was trying to understand until I seen the graph.....I just think it will help if you can make the primary work more up top For turbo bikes over 300hp
Now if i stick a set of Secondairies injectors in my primaries am I gona benefit or no???? For the fact that they are larger?
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wow i think i am confused(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm108/stocker2008photos/020-Copy2.jpg)
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Is that a different program that EE2?
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Instead of writing a long story about injector control, lets use Haynes book of Engine Management Theory. I think this text originates from UK, besides than that and being a bit outdated its still very good reading to understand how ecu tuning works.
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gen2/injpos1.jpg)
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gen2/injpos2.jpg)
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(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm108/stocker2008photos/037.jpg)
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:bah: sorry if i caused this big mess.......
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just an FYI to make life easier stocker, use control + printscreen to take a snapshop of your monitor, then go into paint and hit paste, that will get what you were looking at in a file without having to get out the digital camera :thumb:
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Now i see where you are coming from :wink: Hmmmmmmm
Ok i just edited this post to throw some ideas
The primary's and secondary's are placed in the throttle body's in specific places to help with atomization. The Secondary's are set up so that they hit the secondary throttle body blades to even help further in atomization. It might just be a theory but i think they might of done it to help with atomization in a way. But i could be way off base lol . I wish i had the tools right now to do more testing to try to help at this time but i don't.
[/quote]
Most turbo bikes remove the secondairy throttle plates....Thats what I was trying to understand until I seen the graph.....I just think it will help if you can make the primary work more up top For turbo bikes over 300hp
Now if i stick a set of Secondairies injectors in my primaries am I gona benefit or no???? For the fact that they are larger?
[/quote]
I'm not talking about turbo bikes and yes i know i have had a 400 hp gsxr 1000. I was one of the first people to figure out what injectors fit in the 05-06 gsxr 1000 fuel rail. BTW the stock injectors are all the same size. primary and secondary
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Marc, no worries - this is very good conversation. Makes at least me to go back to fundamentals about theory, ecu firmware code and experience of tuning engines. I am still hesitating if my findings are 100% correct, may well be so that have made a mistake somewhere. The desktop simulator is not the same as a running bike. Therefore value highly if any of the findings are questioned with a reason.
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I think most assumed that the secondary injectors worked similar to the way add-on secondary injectors work for a turbo setup. The bikes cruises around under low power requirements on the primary injectors and the secondaries don't spray until the manifold pressure increases and power requires more fuel. In fact it seems that the injectors just act as more efficient injectors with less flow (half) per injector, effectively making the fuel atomize better.
Thats what i thought at first. Once I had it told to me in a different way it made more sense why they did what they did. Sorry I brought up the topic about the primaries and secondaries. Was just trying to understand a little bit better on how they worked.
Look at dyno chart
I had asked the question way before you put on the dyno chart. After looking at the dyno chart I see exactly what is going on. I understood after talking to PetriK and clarifying some of the questions i had asked. I am good now and understand what is fully going on. No more questions from me about primaries and secondaries!
Sorry if i came off wrong in any way Questions are always good I will Apologize . Now we need to figure out why Suzuki has the primary and secondary injectors cross over like they due when you still have a lot of duty cycle still left in the primary's
[/quote]
No 469 Boy*Robert Kelly you didn't come off wrong and apologize if i snapped a little on the reply. Im going to be lowering the compression on my 08 and will see how much power i get out it til i have to swap injectors. Will be starting on that the later part of september. Getting my shopping list parts ready and ordered.
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I think most assumed that the secondary injectors worked similar to the way add-on secondary injectors work for a turbo setup. The bikes cruises around under low power requirements on the primary injectors and the secondaries don't spray until the manifold pressure increases and power requires more fuel. In fact it seems that the injectors just act as more efficient injectors with less flow (half) per injector, effectively making the fuel atomize better.
Thats what i thought at first. Once I had it told to me in a different way it made more sense why they did what they did. Sorry I brought up the topic about the primaries and secondaries. Was just trying to understand a little bit better on how they worked.
Look at dyno chart
I had asked the question way before you put on the dyno chart. After looking at the dyno chart I see exactly what is going on. I understood after talking to PetriK and clarifying some of the questions i had asked. I am good now and understand what is fully going on. No more questions from me about primaries and secondaries!
Sorry if i came off wrong in any way Questions are always good I will Apologize . Now we need to figure out why Suzuki has the primary and secondary injectors cross over like they due when you still have a lot of duty cycle still left in the primary's
No 469 Boy*Robert Kelly you didn't come off wrong and apologize if i snapped a little on the reply. Im going to be lowering the compression on my 08 and will see how much power i get out it til i have to swap injectors. Will be starting on that the later part of september. Getting my shopping list parts ready and ordered.
[/quote]
No worries brother what injectors are you planing on using in the stock rail?
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just an FYI to make life easier stocker, use control + printscreen to take a snapshop of your monitor, then go into paint and hit paste, that will get what you were looking at in a file without having to get out the digital camera :thumb:
thanks greg.. :thumb:, I learn something new everyday,thats why i enjoy this stuff so much...... :thumb:
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Marc, no worries - this is very good conversation. Makes at least me to go back to fundamentals about theory, ecu firmware code and experience of tuning engines. I am still hesitating if my findings are 100% correct, may well be so that have made a mistake somewhere. The desktop simulator is not the same as a running bike. Therefore value highly if any of the findings are questioned with a reason.
I guess the best way would to be to log both injector duty cycles,and rpm in a real world enviroment on the track preferrably to see the difference as load increases with speed...the dyno is fine but as we all know that in the real world you have to fight parasidic drag,aerodynamic drag as speed increases.I have seen things on the dyno live,then go to the track and blow up due to the fact that you cannot produce the same effect on the dyno.needs change in real life..
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[quote author=turbogixxer link=topic=140792.msg1343873#msg1343873 date=124907029
I'm not talking about turbo bikes and yes i know i have had a 400 hp gsxr 1000. I was one of the first people to figure out what injectors fit in the 05-06 gsxr 1000 fuel rail. BTW the stock injectors are all the same size. primary and secondary
I just had my injectors cleaned............And they ARE different part numbers.........Primary KEIHIN VG16........2nd's KEIHIN VG17
Maybe or maybe not?????//??
Just wonder if they flow different on the same pulse.....If so If I put a set in the primaries will I get more fuel????????
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If they were cleaned, but not flowed? Yes more injector equals more fuel but if primary is at a lower duty cycle not going to do a ton
Someone find the limot of the stock stuff first ;)
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I take back my last post......................
I just took another set off and the have VG05......VG04 those must be batch numbers..........I guess they are the same.........
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FROM WHAT I UNDERSATND BOTH PRIMARY AND SECONDARY ARE THE SAME...
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FROM WHAT I UNDERSATND BOTH PRIMARY AND SECONDARY ARE THE SAME...
Yuppers and if i can think right they are 26lbs injectors
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I think most assumed that the secondary injectors worked similar to the way add-on secondary injectors work for a turbo setup. The bikes cruises around under low power requirements on the primary injectors and the secondaries don't spray until the manifold pressure increases and power requires more fuel. In fact it seems that the injectors just act as more efficient injectors with less flow (half) per injector, effectively making the fuel atomize better.
Thats what i thought at first. Once I had it told to me in a different way it made more sense why they did what they did. Sorry I brought up the topic about the primaries and secondaries. Was just trying to understand a little bit better on how they worked.
Look at dyno chart
I had asked the question way before you put on the dyno chart. After looking at the dyno chart I see exactly what is going on. I understood after talking to PetriK and clarifying some of the questions i had asked. I am good now and understand what is fully going on. No more questions from me about primaries and secondaries!
Sorry if i came off wrong in any way Questions are always good I will Apologize . Now we need to figure out why Suzuki has the primary and secondary injectors cross over like they due when you still have a lot of duty cycle still left in the primary's
No 469 Boy*Robert Kelly you didn't come off wrong and apologize if i snapped a little on the reply. Im going to be lowering the compression on my 08 and will see how much power i get out it til i have to swap injectors. Will be starting on that the later part of september. Getting my shopping list parts ready and ordered.
No worries brother what injectors are you planing on using in the stock rail?
[/quote]
I have a one piece billet from whtrthnu on here. I plan on possibly going with dual sets of s2000's. All 8 will be changed out due to it only being a one piece rail. I will be able to break the 310hp mark when the stockers limit out. just ordered my dl-32, lc-1 and xd-16 on this past thursday. once i install it i will be taking off my pc3usb and using the boost fuel option that PetriK did with the stock ecu. then swapping out to a gm 3bar map sensor when he gets that programmed in ee2. can't wait to start with more boost!
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its already in the code.......just needs to be test out :thumb:
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its already in the code.......just needs to be test out :thumb:
The gm 3bar map is already in the programming for ee2? If so then i will get a 3bar map sensor ordered and on the way then. I thought PetriK was trying to find a 3bar sensor to try it out still and make sure everything was (copestetic) with it.
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Yep needs testing, he is waiting for us to test it, already in the code ;)
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Yep needs testing, he is waiting for us to test it, already in the code ;)
hey Greg any plan on making a plug and play harness for the factory to GM map sensor? :D
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If it gets ported to the Gen 1 I am ready and willing to test.
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Yep needs testing, he is waiting for us to test it, already in the code ;)
Alrighty then. I will get a 3bar map sensor ordered and headed my way. Whats the rewiring configuration you have to use to install it?
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Yep needs testing, he is waiting for us to test it, already in the code ;)
hey Greg any plan on making a plug and play harness for the factory to GM map sensor? :D
i have a couple of gen 1 map sensor connectors i think, can you verify if its the same on the gen 2 bike?
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they are posted on the net for gm 3 bar i forget but its pretty easy
you have
ground
5v
0-5v output
a couple of minutes with a voltmeter will tell you what is what on the factory connector
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Yep needs testing, he is waiting for us to test it, already in the code ;)
hey Greg any plan on making a plug and play harness for the factory to GM map sensor? :D
i have a couple of gen 1 map sensor connectors i think, can you verify if its the same on the gen 2 bike?
Couldn't tell you exactly what the gen1 connectors look like. i will take a pic of my gen2 connector and post when i get home after work. i will also pin out what connectors need to be swapped to what on the 3 bar map sensor to stock sensor connector. maybe you can start making some plug n play harnesses to have for when swapping from a stocker to a 3 bar?
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The 08 Hayabusa has the same Map Sensor as the 05-08 gsxr 1000's . We have boosted the 05 gsxr 1000 map sensor without a bleed off to 29 psi With NO FI light triggered. Im sure that the connector's are different form the gen 1 to gen 2 but i dont not have them in front of me to be 100% right now. :thumb:
ADDED:
I just remembered That you can use a 07-08 gsxr 1000 Power commander on the 08-09 Hayabusa Not sure that will help cross over anything to those bikes but just a idea about the fueling.
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Did some further testing about the injector pulsewidth control by ECU and particularly the boostfuel module.
All the tests indicate that at 100%TPS@around 10000rpm when increasing fuel delivery e.g. by using the Hayabusa ECUeditor 2.0 boostfuel module first the secondary injectors will reach 100% duty cycle after which point the primary injector duty cycle will continue up to 100%. Based on this testing it really looks like that both injectors run up to 100% duty.
When using the turbo tools boostfuel module in ecueditor it automatically disables the high pressure FI light condition for gen2 busas. The FI light is triggered at around 1.37bars i.e. 0.37bar boost only. At least with gen1 when adding one way valve to the vacuum line that generated so much leakage (edit: vibration of the óne way valve just before closing and opening) that the IAP map went out of balance and caused some problems at cruising speeds. When removing one way valve the bike ran much better.
We tried to tune one bike with gsxr powercommander b4 the busa version was avail. The problem we had in that was to make enough fuel available for the nitrous application. I suspect that the reason why we did not get enough fuel for was because of these reasons:
- if connected to secondaries it will be limited by the maximum avail duty cycle, e.g. if duty is already at around 80% you can only get only additional 25% capacity for use. So if you add 25% of fuel to secondaries you are at 100% duty cycle. In normal temperature 22C and 100kpa the engine runs around 80% duty cycle at 6th gear just before hitting the speed limiter. **
- if connected to primaries it will be limited by the fact that primaries run low duty cycles (like 20%) and the powercommander tuning range is not big enough to accomondate for enough fuelling. I.e. 50% more pulsewidto to 20% is only total of 30%.
** = The previous dyno chart here indicated 70% max duty cycle. I get that if the intake air temperature is around 40-50C, ambient pressure is around 100kpa and running on 5th gear (TRE?) only. With limiters removed its easy the to run the gen2 up to 90% and with a full exhaust up to 100% duty cycle of secondaries making the available tuning range even smaller if using an additional piggyback fuelcomputer.
I hope that you guys find this info useful.
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gen2/boost_duty.jpg)
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man......anyone want to buy a gen 1 with 180 hp on motor, 230 hp on spray.......I need a gen 2 something fierce :)
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I need one myself greg!
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man......anyone want to buy a gen 1 with 180 hp on motor, 230 hp on spray.......I need a gen 2 something fierce :)
Come to Martin Friday night and I will let you take a few passes on mine.
Stock wheelbase, lowered all the way, should have at least 220hp on the spray.
Let's have some fun. :twisted:
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Lol I'm not a drag racer wouldn't do your bike justice
I wanmt one to tinker......and to boost ;)
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Greg, We are playing tag with the mail man it sux.................
Couple ???????
Basic setting for a busa would be:
1. Rev Limiter (What is a good setting for this?)
2. Gear limiter
3. Hard cut (do you need if no airshifter is on the bike?)
4. Reprogram Mode ABC ?? What does this do?
5. How do you change Stock IAP sensor to a GM 3 Bar?
6. Difference between TPS, IAP MS fuelmaps? Which one do you import your Bazzaz map to?
Cant wait to get my bike on the dyno and see how the BoostFuel is gonna work....
How does the innovative work with this?
What this can you data log?
You make a harness for it?
As of now I have MSD SB6,Bazzaz,Bazzaz AZFM,Wideband,AMS 1000
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this some great stuff that petrik is coming out with for the gen2,thanks petrik....
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Most of what you have asked is covered in the tutorial videos
Rev limiter is up to the engine setup can't comment there
Run hardcut limiter on a boosted or nos bike imo
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greg when are you getting yours..... :lol:
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Greg, We are playing tag with the mail man it sux.................
Couple ???????
Basic setting for a busa would be:
1. Rev Limiter (What is a good setting for this?)
2. Gear limiter
3. Hard cut (do you need if no airshifter is on the bike?)
4. Reprogram Mode ABC ?? What does this do?
5. How do you change Stock IAP sensor to a GM 3 Bar?
6. Difference between TPS, IAP MS fuelmaps? Which one do you import your Bazzaz map to?
Cant wait to get my bike on the dyno and see how the BoostFuel is gonna work....
How does the innovative work with this?
What this can you data log?
You make a harness for it?
As of now I have MSD SB6,Bazzaz,Bazzaz AZFM,Wideband,AMS 1000
The changes I made on my stage 1 with all stock motor was Rev limiter with hardcut to 12k, no gear limiters, derestricted 2nd and 3rd maps for STB to make 1st-6th gears the same. The timing is the same in all gears. The innovate data logging I have on order so its not installed yet. I heard you can moniter several different sensors so depending on what you want to moniter its pretty much open to what you want.
SMITHABUSA I have some pics of the gen2 stock map sensor and the pinouts for it. Lets just hope you have the connector to make a conversion harness to a gm 3bar map sensor! It will be the first time posting pics so i might need some help to do it the correct way.
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busa a= 5v red
b= - b/br
c=ret sig g/b
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busa a= 5v red
b= - b/br
c=ret sig g/b
thats what it showed. I ordered a gm 3bar map sensor and its in the mail. I could send the pigtail harness it comes with and you could get some made up smithabusa. let me know if you need anything.
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gm map
a= - grd
b= sensor output/return signal to ecu
c= 5v ref
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gm map
a= - grd
b= sensor output/return signal to ecu
c= 5v ref
Thanks for the info stocker64. once i get my 3bar in the mail i will rewire and try it out. will let you guys know how it goes. i tracked it and says its going to be here on thursday.
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Hi guys,
As Anyone pushed rev limiter higher than 12000 rpm on a stock motor ?
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Not sure why you would want to, is it still making power at redline now?
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that's really pushing your luck even at 12k with stock rods... :?
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Not reflash yet, just a question
if i'm not wrong the stock limiter is set at 10900, not ?
i plan to set it at 12000 or a little more but not going to reach it all the time, sometimes only
naturly i don't exceed this limit if it's useless (no more power after this limit, fllat line)
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busa a= 5v red
b= - b/br
c=ret sig g/b
thats what it showed. I ordered a gm 3bar map sensor and its in the mail. I could send the pigtail harness it comes with and you could get some made up smithabusa. let me know if you need anything.
the gm sensors that i have used came with a pigtail that had red,black,and white wires connected already,pretty easy to figure out,the last one i got for 67.00 w/the pigtail harness.
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busa a= 5v red
b= - b/br
c=ret sig g/b
thats what it showed. I ordered a gm 3bar map sensor and its in the mail. I could send the pigtail harness it comes with and you could get some made up smithabusa. let me know if you need anything.
the gm sensors that i have used came with a pigtail that had red,black,and white wires connected already,pretty easy to figure out,the last one i got for 67.00 w/the pigtail harness.
I know i can figure it out. but someone was asking for a conversion harness on here at sometime and smithabusa said he might have some extra connectors to make a nice clean conversion with. just getting the info to him for the people that want it is all. i got mine for $56 off ebay with harness.
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:thumb:,56 great deal....
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Yep might be able to do that once we know what the map connector on gen2 is ;)
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smithabusa im emailing some pics over to you of what the gen2 connector looks like. let me know if you need anything more.
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who says smithabusa doesn't love ya :thumb:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1313.jpg)
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the man has come through again....for everybody........ :thumb:
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who says smithabusa doesn't love ya :thumb:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1313.jpg)
Are you selling these now? How much?
Can someone pm me the link for EE2 updates??? Please
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So to check things out you can download the ECU Editor 2.0 software (which may require updated net framework depending on your windows version), and if you actually want to connect a box to the software and flash you will want to download this driver.
ECU Editor 2.0 http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/ecueditor2.0/ecueditor_prerelease.htm
Net Framework (might be required) http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=333325FD-AE52-4E35-B531-508D977D32A6&displaylang=en
Driver from FTDIchip.com http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/CDM/CDM%202.04.16.exe
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Thanks smithabusa for making that harness. Once I get the one you send me I will let everyone know how it works. I will also be installing my dl-32, lc-1 and xd-16 and tuning for the boost fuel option for a stage 1 kit. will update everyone as well once i start tuning. tracked this morning and the packages are to be delivered today!
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send me your address and ill ship this out today :thumb:
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send me your address and ill ship this out today :thumb:
also replyed to your sales@boostbysmith.com address.
Evan Garms
9758 Laredo St #8A
Commerce City, CO 80022
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Do u have more of the 3bar connectors?
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Do u have more of the 3bar connectors?
no sir that was all i had, that was one i had laying around when i tried messing with something similar on the gen 1 ecu going into the tps circuit.
if i have it wired correctly and egrams says it works out, i can buy connectors etc and make some up if people want them.
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+1 here and probably the air shifter connector also
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A couple of findings:
1) The service manual says that the fuelpump discharge is 220ml/10sec = 0.22L*3600/10 = 80LPH. I recall reading from this board that the pump has been rated for 144PH based on the service manual, but this calculation based on what I was reading from the service manual says the fuelpump is the same capacity as gen1. Has anyone really tested the fuelpump ?
2) The injector timing is rather surprising. The primaries seem to fire once per every engine revolution where as secondaries seem to fire every 720degrees. I am very curious why Suzuki/Denso implemented the firing this way. Maybe there is something to be learned here how to squeeze power out of the engine.
Based on further testing regarding the duty cycles both being capable of 100% duty, just can not find a situation where that would not happen when ecu is used for tuning the engine. The limit for around 100% duty is apr 430-450 pulsewidth on the hayabusa ecueditor2 enginedata screen. Normal nontuned engine pulsewidh is around 230, so there is almost double amount of fuel avail from injectors compared to stock, with 1:1 regulator for turbos even more.
So just see the fuelpump as a very critical item for even all motor 1441 tuning.
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/gen2/gen2injectorpulse.jpg)
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PetriK I have the stock gen2 fuel pump. I don't need it for anything since I have gone turbo and installed an aftermarket bigger pump. Would you like me to send it to you so you can test it?
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Smithabusa I just recieved the gm 3bar map sensor today. As soon as I get the harness I will install and try it out. Then let you guys know the results.
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PetriK I have the stock gen2 fuel pump. I don't need it for anything since I have gone turbo and installed an aftermarket bigger pump. Would you like me to send it to you so you can test it?
I am a it far for testing bearing in mind transportation cost and that customs is interested in getting duties paid of packages of that size.
Its easy to test, dont even need to take the fuelpump off the bike. Just disconnect the fuel line and let it run to a big coke bottle, hook up +12V to the fuelpump. Let it run for 30s, should fill about 0.7L. Measure the fuel and multiply by 2*60 (0.5L * mins in hour). This is the real LPH number now.
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PetriK I have the stock gen2 fuel pump. I don't need it for anything since I have gone turbo and installed an aftermarket bigger pump. Would you like me to send it to you so you can test it?
I am a it far for testing bearing in mind transportation cost and that customs is interested in getting duties paid of packages of that size.
Its easy to test, dont even need to take the fuelpump off the bike. Just disconnect the fuel line and let it run to a big coke bottle, hook up +12V to the fuelpump. Let it run for 30s, should fill about 0.7L. Measure the fuel and multiply by 2*60 (0.5L * mins in hour). This is the real LPH number now.
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PETRIK YOUR FINDINGS ARE VERY ENCOURAGEING,WE HAD "SOME TROUBLE" IN TESTING AND WILL BE TESTING WITH EE2 NEXT WEEK,WE HAD TROUBLES AGAIN REVING TO THE LIMITS.......GREAT FINDINGS WITH FUEL FLOW CAPABILITIES......MARC..... :thumb:
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PETRIK,HOW DO YOU LIKE YOUR SCOPE??FOR THE MONEY I LIKE IT...? DO YOU THINK IT IS ACCURATE LIKE THE "BIG" DOLLAR UNITS??? AND DO YOU USE THE LOGGER ALONG WITH A .BS2 PROGRAM OR ALIKE?
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IT LOOKS LIKE 'we' have to rely on the functionally of ee2 at this point ,due to testing tonight in which "i" flashed 2, gen1's with ee2 and "we" used the other program with the gen2 and the gen1's ran perfect,but the gen2 did not again,so i will switch the bike to ee2 since it appeares to work without problems....... :thumb:
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PetriK I have the stock gen2 fuel pump. I don't need it for anything since I have gone turbo and installed an aftermarket bigger pump. Would you like me to send it to you so you can test it?
I am a it far for testing bearing in mind transportation cost and that customs is interested in getting duties paid of packages of that size.
Its easy to test, dont even need to take the fuelpump off the bike. Just disconnect the fuel line and let it run to a big coke bottle, hook up +12V to the fuelpump. Let it run for 30s, should fill about 0.7L. Measure the fuel and multiply by 2*60 (0.5L * mins in hour). This is the real LPH number now.
Ok I will test my stocker fuel pump when i get a chance this weekend. I didn't realize you live in finland. I have a bunch of other stuff to install this weekend as well for starting to run the boost fuel option with ee2 and tuning for it. Long weekend ahead of me!
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Petrik, I have a question......Can you hook up an innovative box to where it can data log the data from the ecu? I think I read something like that. I get confused cause this topic is on many other sites.
Thanks in advance.........Also will be trying the boost fuel out very sortly........need to get the motor back in the bike......
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Petrik, I have a question......Can you hook up an innovative box to where it can data log the data from the ecu? I think I read something like that. I get confused cause this topic is on many other sites.
Thanks in advance.........Also will be trying the boost fuel out very sortly........need to get the motor back in the bike......
Why was the motor out of the bike? When i talked to you last it sounded like you were riding it around and was thinking about selling it?
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Remeber I told you When they powder coated my plenum There was grit from the sand blasting stuck in the corners which I couldnt see, and after It got some boost it sucked thru my motor and ruin my valves...So I had to put another set of Ferrea valves in it...
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Petrik, I have a question......Can you hook up an innovative box to where it can data log the data from the ecu? I think I read something like that. I get confused cause this topic is on many other sites.
Thanks in advance.........Also will be trying the boost fuel out very sortly........need to get the motor back in the bike......
Petrik Also can you add a boost gauge sensor on the EE2 display?
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No innovate link done or planned at this stage.
The boost monitoring gauge is on turbotools/boostfuel screen already.
I have been testing the boostfuel and it looks that we need to change the boost scaling a bit so that every column will be useful with the boost resolution we are using in this verion.
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Here what the boost gauge looks like, see the red circle in the screenshot below. You can also see the map tracing, ie. the dark blue cursor moving on the display according to the rpm and boost. This should be fairly straight forward concept to use in tuning.
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gen2/boostfuel.jpg)
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very cool concept for gen2 turbo owners... :thumb:
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I tried hooking up the conversion harness for the gm 3bar map sensor. When i hooked it up I started it up and it dropped my afr at idle down to 11's. Once it got just half way warm to normall operating temp it wouldn't stay running. I swapped back to the stock setup and the afr went back up to high 13's and low 14's. Do I need to program anything in to the stock ECU to program for the gm 3bar map sensor?
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Petrik updated coded today for map conversion tables are you using code downloaded today? We need to know at idle what does your iap sensor read nlstock and then with 3 bar hooked up etc
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Lets make sure that you have downloaded the latest Ecueditor 2.0. In that you go to the boostfuel setting on advanced options screen and activate it from there. During normal cruising area it sould beok.
Drop me a line if any difficulties. Should be very straight forward thing to do:
1) Replace IAP with GM3bar
2) Flash the ecu with boostfuel settings (advanced/boostuel and click on the box on that page)
3) Tune the ecu boostfuel maps (map on the boostfuel sceen)
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I am currently hooking my innovate dl-32, lc-1 and xd-16. What for my 5 channels should I be logging? I want both sets of injectors logged, tps, afr and boost. in the instructions for channels I dont see what the afr gets hooked up to. for boost i want to hook up the vaccuum up to map sensor on the dl-32 itself right? I have power running to it and daisy chained with the rest. now just need to hook up the 5 channels. i will also reflash my ECU and activate the boost fuel settings.
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I am currently hooking my innovate dl-32, lc-1 and xd-16. What for my 5 channels should I be logging? I want both sets of injectors logged, tps, afr and boost. in the instructions for channels I dont see what the afr gets hooked up to. for boost i want to hook up the vaccuum up to map sensor on the dl-32 itself right? I have power running to it and daisy chained with the rest. now just need to hook up the 5 channels. i will also reflash my ECU and activate the boost fuel settings.
so you didn't have the boostfuel function activated during your initial test...
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I didnt reflash the stock ECU for the boost fuel yet. I am currently running my wiring for the rest of the sensor hookups. I have a couple questions on the hookups. For the fuel injectors on datalogging you need to hook up to the negative side of the injector due to the computer sending the ground signal to fire the injector and a constant 12V to the injector correct? What wire for the rpm am I going to connect to off of the tach?i.e. color. Rpm and tps are going to be installed on the postive side on the dl-32 with the tps being the pink with black chaser if i member right. If this is right then I will hook up the rest of the wiring once i figure out what wire to tap into for the tach. I wanted to be able to datalog first before trying the boost fuel method. Much easier plus a street tune is much better than a dyno tune.
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I didnt reflash the stock ECU for the boost fuel yet. I am currently running my wiring for the rest of the sensor hookups. I have a couple questions on the hookups. For the fuel injectors on datalogging you need to hook up to the negative side of the injector due to the computer sending the ground signal to fire the injector and a constant 12V to the injector correct? What wire for the rpm am I going to connect to off of the tach?i.e. color. Rpm and tps are going to be installed on the postive side on the dl-32 with the tps being the pink with black chaser if i member right. If this is right then I will hook up the rest of the wiring once i figure out what wire to tap into for the tach. I wanted to be able to datalog first before trying the boost fuel method. Much easier plus a street tune is much better than a dyno tune.
i'm getting my rpm and injector duty cycle off the #1 injector negative side... :thumb:
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No innovate link done or planned at this stage.
The boost monitoring gauge is on turbotools/boostfuel screen already.
I have been testing the boostfuel and it looks that we need to change the boost scaling a bit so that every column will be useful with the boost resolution we are using in this verion.
Petrik...........
Is there timing compensation for the boost compensation? I hope I am saying that right
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not at this time, i assume you mean timing retard per psi of boost type of thing.
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still in development stage.... :thumb:
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not at this time, i assume you mean timing retard per psi of boost type of thing.
Yes............Is he working on it? Or thought of it? 20lbs of boost and we need timing retarded or we wont have a motor.LOL
Thanks again guys
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as would make sense, petrik wants to get one thing working before implementing a whole bunch of stuff. he could code in everything a stand alone does damn near, but without testing stuff first does no one any good.
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as would make sense, petrik wants to get one thing working before implementing a whole bunch of stuff. he could code in everything a stand alone does damn near, but without testing stuff first does no one any good.
TRUE..........But timing is a major part when doing boost compensation on higher boost levels
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Someone should get this going on a low boost application first before shooting for the moon at 30 psi and melting something imo
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Someone should get this going on a low boost application first before shooting for the moon at 30 psi and melting something imo
Hopefully we can get the "bugs" worked out. We are at a slight snag but im sure it will only be that since PetriK is the man for ECU hacking n tuning. I have all of my datalogging equipment installed and will be logging to make sure everything is running correctly on the tune. After I get the mapping good for 5psi of boost will then lower comp and tune for a stage 2 and water injection. Then slowly up the boost and see where it gets us.
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Was any progress ever made on implmenting the Auto Tune feature?
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Someone should get this going on a low boost application first before shooting for the moon at 30 psi and melting something imo
Hopefully we can get the "bugs" worked out. We are at a slight snag but im sure it will only be that since PetriK is the man for ECU hacking n tuning. I have all of my datalogging equipment installed and will be logging to make sure everything is running correctly on the tune. After I get the mapping good for 5psi of boost will then lower comp and tune for a stage 2 and water injection. Then slowly up the boost and see where it gets us.
Personally I feel that its matter of time rather than if. Already found why the idle fuel was off. This is just only a bit more complex than adding the shifter. The current strategy is very simple. As the Gm3bar to ecu mapping seems work already fine, the offset of 4kpa (4/14.7psi) is something that can be fixed with the adjustment table. For enrichment we use the so called Yoshbox enrichment variable and simple multiply it for scaling it to turbo use. In the version that we tested there was a bug that the turbomap reduced fuelling on the vacuum area so it kind of double reduced the fuelling, something I am working on. It may be as simple as using signed vs unsigned numbers, but have not had time to look it in detail enough.
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Personally I feel that its matter of time rather than if. Already found why the idle fuel was off. This is just only a bit more complex than adding the shifter. The current strategy is very simple. As the Gm3bar to ecu mapping seems work already fine, the offset of 4kpa (4/14.7psi) is something that can be fixed with the adjustment table. For enrichment we use the so called Yoshbox enrichment variable and simple multiply it for scaling it to turbo use. In the version that we tested there was a bug that the turbomap reduced fuelling on the vacuum area so it kind of double reduced the fuelling, something I am working on. It may be as simple as using signed vs unsigned numbers, but have not had time to look it in detail enough.
Let me know when you get time enough to update and let me try it again. I have my bike on my lift at home in the garage ready to go for the next try.
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Thanks, started today - but fell short on time. Need to continue tomorrow.
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Thanks, started today - but fell short on time. Need to continue tomorrow.
No worries. i now you will get everything worked out! :D
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No worries. i now you will get everything worked out! :D
Everything may be too much to promise, but just put out a new version that should not anymore affect the vacuum area.
- Boostfuel fix, vacuum area should not anymore be affected by boostfuel, testing still ongoing
- Added FI light on with boost exeeding 1bar or AFR > 13.2 under boost. User adjustable interface will be added later
That was really silly from me not to look at vacuum area when building boost fuelling. But thats why its so good to have feedback from this board, particularly this kind of features which I can not test on my own bike. I will continue testing at this end, but based on initial tests this time the bike may idle ;-). Under boost there should not be differences to earlier.
Must warn you that the FI light may start to blink if Kpa > 20 e.g. when closing throttle if AFR peaks over 13.2 on stock oxygen sensor. We need to have a good algorithm for this if this kind of safety feature itf it is something that we want to keep it. If the pressure goes over 1.2bar then the FI light will also start to blink, e.g. in case of a broken hose. On both cases there will be no errorcode, should show -C00. ECU just turns the light blinking adn show FI to inform about these. The AFR and Boost errorlevels will be user adjustable at some point, now would appreciate feedback on how this feature is perceived.
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Nice Petrik..........
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No worries. i now you will get everything worked out! :D
Everything may be too much to promise, but just put out a new version that should not anymore affect the vacuum area.
- Boostfuel fix, vacuum area should not anymore be affected by boostfuel, testing still ongoing
- Added FI light on with boost exeeding 1bar or AFR > 13.2 under boost. User adjustable interface will be added later
That was really silly from me not to look at vacuum area when building boost fuelling. But thats why its so good to have feedback from this board, particularly this kind of features which I can not test on my own bike. I will continue testing at this end, but based on initial tests this time the bike may idle ;-). Under boost there should not be differences to earlier.
Must warn you that the FI light may start to blink if Kpa > 20 e.g. when closing throttle if AFR peaks over 13.2 on stock oxygen sensor. We need to have a good algorithm for this if this kind of safety feature itf it is something that we want to keep it. If the pressure goes over 1.2bar then the FI light will also start to blink, e.g. in case of a broken hose. On both cases there will be no errorcode, should show -C00. ECU just turns the light blinking adn show FI to inform about these. The AFR and Boost errorlevels will be user adjustable at some point, now would appreciate feedback on how this feature is perceived.
Today when I get home from work i will download the new version and test to see if boost fuel option works. will let you know if i have any more problems. Is there a way to have the stock ecu see a wide band o2 sensor? I have an LC-1 and was wondering if there is a way to have the stock ecu see what the lc-1 is reading? maybe tap into the wires and wire into the stock o2 sensor connector? I have the stock o2 sensor bypassed at the connector at the current moment.
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Nice work petrik. You are progressing along with the boost fuel function quickly.
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pretty sure LC1 can be setup in narrowband output mode, could run that signal into the ecu in place of the signal from the stock O2 sensor would be my suggestion.
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pretty sure LC1 can be setup in narrowband output mode, could run that signal into the ecu in place of the signal from the stock O2 sensor would be my suggestion.
I will look into wiring that up. I also have some stuff to send you for a complete swap kit for the gm 3bar. A different vaccuum connector for the larger hose needed from the throttle bodies to the map. The stock has a tiny hose and wont fit over the nipple on the 3bar. Also some extra hose that i had laying around to get you started if you want them?
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sure or even just a picture, not really sure that there will be any sense in me making up many of these, but ya never know
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You can hook up your LM1 or LC1 using the Narrow Band output in those. Bypassed stock sensor should not make any difficulties for you.
Lets hope that there is some progress with the boost fuel at the end of this day. This kind of things are sometimes slow to get going and most of the small hickups are so much easier to find in real life testing. E.g. to get accurate duty cycles I needed to disconnect the coils from which I measured the pulses to get exact number so there is always some margin of error on desktop testing. (There was still also small thing in the boost fuel map which is under test righ now and should be fixed in minutes.)
Below some testing data. Please remember that basemap at 100% TPS affects these numbers as the total fuel add is added on top of the TPS map value on the 100% (or which ever TPS position is i question.) When thinking about the fuel add please note that it is of total fuel capacity of what ever both injectors are giving out. As this was logged manually there may be errors in this, but it should give a good overall picture.
Currently it looks like that one unit on the screen is about 0.04-0.05ms of total ms of total fuel capacity of both injectors. When secondaries are at 100% then the primaries effect is getting smaller and it looks like there needs to be more fuel on the map, but that can be tuned in the dyno I guess.
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gen2/boostduty.jpg)
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... and before someone asks about 15psi numbers in red, thats where the current max limit of 127 is reached. Have not tested higher than that, based on primaries duty it looks like that number can be exceeded - but we are not just there yet at this stage.
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/gen2/boostmap.jpg)
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UUUUUUUGggggggghhhhhh...............Greg I need to call you
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Regarding? I'm new to the boosted fuel stuff too so not sure what I know vs everyone else lol
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Regarding? I'm new to the boosted fuel stuff too so not sure what I know vs everyone else lol
No I finally but it on the bike and it says com port doesnt exist.........or...........error keeps coming up.......... I tried several times reinstalling Frame and USB driver and cant get it to read engine data
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On the brown and blue wire..........The brown lines up with the brown and blue lines up with black wire? On the white plug there is a blue wire? I watch your vid and still cant figure it out
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If com port doesn't exist vista issue probably go to device manager and make sure what com port it actually is
If it says ecu not on bike isn't n neutral, key isn't on, run switch isn't on, or you didn't fully insert the pins into connector intil they clicked (most popular issue so far by far) or you wired the 2 wires backwards
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There may be benefit from a few others testing with the 3 bar map, even without a boosted application, especially those planning to go boosted in the near future . This way, non boosted bugs could be worked out on multiple fronts, and when the turbo is added, the bike will already be "used to" the new sensor. (Come on Greg, get the new bike already...)
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If com port doesn't exist vista issue probably go to device manager and make sure what com port it actually is
If it says ecu not on bike isn't n neutral, key isn't on, run switch isn't on, or you didn't fully insert the pins into connector intil they clicked (most popular issue so far by far) or you wired the 2 wires backwards
I did the device manager....I dont have vista......I cant get the pins in the stock ecu to click
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If pins aren't seat it won't work
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I have b rown to brown and blue lined up with black on same connector is that right?
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Yep, pop orange cap off ecu connector and see if the pins are bottomed out, if not it won't work
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Yep, pop orange cap off ecu connector and see if the pins are bottomed out, if not it won't work
Thank you
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Yep, pop orange cap off ecu connector and see if the pins are bottomed out, if not it won't work
Are tese connectors that go into the ecu a radio shack or something? I just destroyed mine :(
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No sir they arent
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In the version that we tested there was a bug that the turbomap reduced fuelling on the vacuum area so it kind of double reduced the fuelling, something I am working on. It may be as simple as using signed vs unsigned numbers, but have not had time to look it in detail enough.
[/quote]
Ok update on boost fueling: I got the bike to run and idle very slowly at like 800rpms. my afr gauge was showing 29's and 30's while idling that low. Dont know how it kept running at that level but it did. PetriK it definately needs to have more fuel added in for the idle. From the above mentioned maybe it is still taking out too much fuel for the conversion associated with the 3bar map sensor in the programming. at 800rpms it was reading in the 74-75 range for the iap kpa if that helps. maybe make it when you are on the turbo map that it doesn't take any fuel away on the vaccuum area as compared to stock just for shits n grins then let me try it out. this would be the same as when you have turbo'd your bike the first time the stock ecu runs the out of boost areas just fine til when you finally take the bike down and have the in boost areas tuned for. normally you dont change much in the lower rpm ranges and vaccuum areas but maybe adding more fuel. no need to change the vaccuum areas in having less fuel. im just trying to give you a hint in what i think it needs. you know your stuff so I maybe wrong in saying what i have.
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Thanks, a couple of questions to understand the basics:
1) What was the Ambient Pressure sensor reading when power on, motor off ?
2) What was the GM3 bar IAP sensor reading with boostmode on when power on, motor off ?
(When engine off, power on the Ambient and IAP sensor readings should be the same.)
3) What was the Ambient Pressure sensor reading when power on, motor on ?
4) What was the GM3 bar IAP sensor reading with boostmode on when power on, motor on ?
5) What was he injector pw when bike idling at around 800rpm with above ambient and GM3 iap readings ?
I am a bit puzzled now, as testing at this end says:
- With boost fuel activated bike idling at 87kpa Ambient, 74 kpa IAP pessure generates 3.28ms pulsewidth on primaries which shows as numbe 63 on Ecueditor injector pw on the engine data monitor.
- Without boost fuel activated bike idling at 87kpa Ambient, 74 kpa IAP pessure generates 3.28ms pulsewidth on primaries which shows as numbe 63 on Ecueditor injector pw on the engine data monitor.
The reason to run lean when idling could be GM3 bar conversion map being more off than I understood earlier, or maybe there was low end adjustments done with Yoshbox or Powercommander to this bike ?
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When the bike wasnt running but ignition on it read 87kpa. I could hold the throttle up at 3-4k and it would just hesitate and afr was running 22's-24's on afr. it acts like it isnt getting enough fuel. when i reflash to normal and no boost fuel i have no problem with the bike idling and reving with the 3bar map sensor installed. i will get all the rest of the info you asked for tomorrow. i have to work a double shift tomorrow so it may not be til friday til i get a chance.
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So the ambient and gm3 sensors read the same when bike is not running, thats good.
I am assuming no powecommander or yoshbox adjustments for TPS < 10% area ?
There could be something different between my desktop and your bike actual settings. We may also need to measure GM3 and Suzuki IAP sensor voltages for various pressures separately. I also need to check if the elevation has any effect on fuelling calculations.
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So the ambient and gm3 sensors read the same when bike is not running, thats good.
I am assuming no powecommander or yoshbox adjustments for TPS < 10% area ?
There could be something different between my desktop and your bike actual settings. We may also need to measure GM3 and Suzuki IAP sensor voltages for various pressures separately. I also need to check if the elevation has any effect on fuelling calculations.
I looked at it again this morning before work. The injectors are reading 18% when idling showing the 73-74 iap kpa and the iap diff showing 13-14. also when not running the ambient was 87 with the iap kpa 83 and iap diff 4(sorry for saying it was at 87 when it actually wasnt). I disconnected the power commander so i am strictly on the ecu. i tried adding in fuel and taking out but it didnt seem to make any difference either way on the tps<10%. i have never done any yoshbox adjustments.
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1) Did you try adding fuel to the IAP or TPS map ? Under TPS 10% only IAP map is active.
2) Was there any fuel added to powercommander for 1-3% area ?
I am a bit puzzled now. On the desktop I get FUEL pw around 60 when idling at IAP kPa 72, that is a bit too low vacuum but also very low rpm. In stock configuration the bike is idling at around:
iap kpa 64-65
iap diff 22-23
That is appr FUEL pw of 50, meaning that there is some more fuel when using the boostmap when idling compared to stock map.
The FUEL pw numbers are important and maybe can reveal something. (The % numbers in ecueditor are just for testing, those have nothing to do with real duty cycles, its the FUEL pw that counts.)
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1) Did you try adding fuel to the IAP or TPS map ? Under TPS 10% only IAP map is active.
2) Was there any fuel added to powercommander for 1-3% area ?
I am a bit puzzled now. On the desktop I get FUEL pw around 60 when idling at IAP kPa 72, that is a bit too low vacuum but also very low rpm. In stock configuration the bike is idling at around:
iap kpa 64-65
iap diff 22-23
That is appr FUEL pw of 50, meaning that there is some more fuel when using the boostmap when idling compared to stock map.
The FUEL pw numbers are important and maybe can reveal something. (The % numbers in ecueditor are just for testing, those have nothing to do with real duty cycles, its the FUEL pw that counts.)
yes i did try to add fuel and take away fuel in the iap map under 10% throttle. it didnt help either way. the power commander is disconnected so no adjustments were made in the 1-3% area using that method. i will try to get another look tonight for the fuel pulse width. i have to work a double today so it may not be til tomorrow. on saturday i should be able to get more comparisons done in different areas to help you out the most. without the boost fuel option flashed to the ecu it does run and idle around the 64-65 iap kpa and 22-23 iap diff with 87 being the ambient. will get voltages off of the stock iap and the 3bar iap with different pressures applied. what all else would like a comparison on?
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i pick up my gen 2 later today, so maybe this weekend if this isn't resolved i can help out :)
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i pick up my gen 2 later today, so maybe this weekend if this isn't resolved i can help out :)
Sweet so you finally found a gen2 to get? What color? What are your plans to do it? It would be nice to have another set of eyes in case of something i miss. would be better also to have someone at a lower elevation just in case that is messing with something to.
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08 brand new blue / black with gold wheels
eventual plans will be boost to play with the 3 bar stuff, but time being just leaving it stock and playing around with flashing, enjoy it a little bit LOL
I am almost right at sea level too
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Greg, welcome to the club - does this mean tha you have 4 bikes in the family now ?
Aboute boostfuel, I will try it on my all motor. Maybe that reveals something.
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3 at the moment, unless we are counting dirt bike stuff
00 turbo busa 460 hp
05 nos busa 230 hp
08 busa
going to sell the 05 bike though
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Dirtbike - thats the one that the yongest rider has and which is most regulary used ?
Anyway, tested the boostfuel on an US ecu on all motor with stock IAP and these are the results:
- Boostfuel as it is, starts - idles very rich as boostfuel assumes GM3bar and Suzuki/Denso IAP sensor was used
- Turned both boostfuel and sensormap compensation off but let program work (special program version), idles as fine as stock so the module should work
- Turned the boostfuel on but let sensormap stay off (special program version), idles fine but when turning throttle fast the engine dies, goes propably too rich
This starts to limit potential problem areas. Need to do some thinking what it could be at the Denver that prevents the bike running.
I did some tweaking of the code though before this so there may be chances, but doubt figuring this out being so easy.
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yep my 4 year old has a pw50 which he rides almost every day :)
And he also has a suzuki 50cc 4 -wheeler that he hasn't sat on once since we bought the pw50 LOL
and i have a polaris 500 4x4 4-wheeler for plowing snow, riding around the yard with, it gets rode more than my bikes LOL
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Dirtbike - thats the one that the yongest rider has and which is most regulary used ?
Anyway, tested the boostfuel on an US ecu on all motor with stock IAP and these are the results:
- Boostfuel as it is, starts - idles very rich as boostfuel assumes GM3bar and Suzuki/Denso IAP sensor was used
- Turned both boostfuel and sensormap compensation off but let program work (special program version), idles as fine as stock so the module should work
- Turned the boostfuel on but let sensormap stay off (special program version), idles fine but when turning throttle fast the engine dies, goes propably too rich
This starts to limit potential problem areas. Need to do some thinking what it could be at the Denver that prevents the bike running.
I did some tweaking of the code though before this so there may be chances, but doubt figuring this out being so easy.
ok so this means i shouldnt have a problem with it at least idling? have you got the new revision updated on the net yet? i will try the new revision and see what happens. you wouldnt think that at elevation you would have such a problem. maybe smithabusa can help shed some light on the subject when he takes delivery on the new 08!
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ok so this means i shouldnt have a problem with it at least idling? have you got the new revision updated on the net yet? i will try the new revision and see what happens. you wouldnt think that at elevation you would have such a problem. maybe smithabusa can help shed some light on the subject when he takes delivery on the new 08!
Well, dont have a 3bar sensor on my bike so that is an unknown element still, but at least the all motor bike runs (very rich) with stock stock sensor and should run even better with gm3bar.
There is more or less two things to be checked:
1) gm3bar vs. suzuki/denso sensor voltages for each vacuum setting
2) thinking what the elevation could mean for the sensor conversion map
yes, software and boostfuelmodule is the latest i tested.
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Want to put some speed on this project and make less room for guesswork. I'll try to source a gm3 bar sensor. Found one source locally so if they have it in stock I should have it on tue. If they dont have it in stock may take longer. Even without a turbo I should be able to make the all motor idling well with a proper gm3 bar sensor mapped.
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Hi Petrik,
What about pc5 to ee2 conversion ? i saw you've go further with bazzaz but i'm not sure for pc5 conversion
I've got an european model : belgium
Does the conversion tool fully works now ?
Thx for your feedback
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Want to put some speed on this project and make less room for guesswork. I'll try to source a gm3 bar sensor. Found one source locally so if they have it in stock I should have it on tue. If they dont have it in stock may take longer. Even without a turbo I should be able to make the all motor idling well with a proper gm3 bar sensor mapped.
That shoudl help to imit some of the "non boosted" bugs in teh alibration or tuning :thumb:
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Ok were in business! I got off work a couple hours early and reflashed with PetriK's new revision. When first starting up it fires right up.
Here is the following info:
Running Not running
iap kpa 58-60 84
iap diff 27-29 2
fuel pw 39-41
has a pretty bumpy idle goes from 950-1350. afr at 16-17
I added 10% on the iap map and here is the results
iap kpa 53-54
iap diff 32-33
fuel pw steady at 41
much better running idle at 1200 . idles very smooth and the afr was at 13.2 which is what she was with stock iap and no boost fuel.
also i noticed that now the ambient is dancing between 86-87. it never steadies itself whether running or not running. didnt have to start for a long time it just fired right up. havent got the stock iap or 3bar iap voltages yet, that's next on the list. wanted to give the update that it's up n running now! 8)
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Sweet! I'm 30 miles outside of ft wayne at sonic eating, waited 2 hours after close waiting for bike to show up lol
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Then show us some pics!
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No camera on phone
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Congrats on the new member of the family! hopefully you at least test drove her first before transporting her back? I couldn't wait til mine arrived. They had to bring her in from a couple towns away at there other store. took an extra hour to finally get to see and ride her.
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Sweet! I'm 30 miles outside of ft wayne at sonic eating, waited 2 hours after close waiting for bike to show up lol
You bought a used one? What color?
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Brand new leftover. Blue 08
I didn't trailer it, just got home, 160 miles on the odometer now :)
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Well its dusty as hell, covered in bugs, and im tired (just got home at 11:30pm) but she is home :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1370.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1372.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1371.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1373.jpg)
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Nice greg :thumb:
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do you need another harness or did you figure it out? You could repin a couple of the yosh plug wires and make what you have work if need be.
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Very nice! :lol: :thumb:
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Glad to hear that the turbofuelling is making some progress too. I will receive the gm3 bar sensor early next week so that should help smoothening the idle and transition to turbomap.
Currently the turbomap under may be too rich (double) for much bikes as the tuning range was extended.
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Hi Petrik,
What about pc5 to ee2 conversion ? i saw you've go further with bazzaz but i'm not sure for pc5 conversion
I've got an european model : belgium
Does the conversion tool fully works now ?
Thx for your feedback
I recall that this has been tested by at least one user.
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Glad to hear that the turbofuelling is making some progress too. I will receive the gm3 bar sensor early next week so that should help smoothening the idle and transition to turbomap.
Currently the turbomap under may be too rich (double) for much bikes as the tuning range was extended.
I have a couple of other things to install and work on. ordered a 3 gauge mount from tiger racing and will be arriving today and then move my gauges to the gauge mount. after that i will put my fairings back on and then start tuning with my dl-32 for how well the turbo boost mapping works. will let you know updates as i am tuning or run into anything.
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Well its dusty as hell, covered in bugs, and im tired (just got home at 11:30pm) but she is home :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1370.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1372.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1371.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1373.jpg)
did you take a flashed ecu with you to pick it up? and try out the top speed for break in. :hys:
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Sure didn't, thought crossed my mind though lol
Egarms don't put mechanical gauges in the tiger gauge panel
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I have 2 electric gauges and a mechanical boost gauge. why not put the mechanical boost gauge in the gauge mount?
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vibration from being rigid mounted will ruin it rather quickly, mine lasted about 70 miles. I would get an electric, VEI gauges has a nice one for like $80 or so i think it is.
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Those are the really nice ones I saw on another bike here on the forum. Those are the gauges that are an awesome blue when lit up. I just ordered an electric boost gauge and fuel gauge w/ sender. I liked the fuel pressure gauge better than the one i have now! thanks for showing me on to those gauges.
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Quote from: Jean-Mi on August 13, 2009, 02:39:49 PM
Hi Petrik,
What about pc5 to ee2 conversion ? i saw you've go further with bazzaz but i'm not sure for pc5 conversion
I've got an european model : belgium
Does the conversion tool fully works now ?
Thx for your feedback
I recall that this has been tested by at least one user.
Ok, Thx Petrik i'll be the second user
can you tell me who is on the dedicated topic ? i'll MP him
Thx for you help
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OB BOss on this thread
http://www.hayabusa.org/forum/gen-ii-busa-information/111961-flashing-08-ecu-editing-software-gen-ii-busas-23.html
Page 23
I dont remember if he is on this site or not, his email is:
petespitstop@wideband.net.au
He is in Australia
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Heres how I did my gauges....Its dirty though
(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k113/dragster_01/100_1043.jpg)
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Thx Greg :thumb:
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While waiting for the GM 3 bar sensor doing some testing of the boost contol solenoid controlling, and that seems to be easy to implement. First version already up and running.
What boost control duty cycles you guys run for each gear ? Looking for these details:
1) What is the required resolution for the duty cycle control, ie. if per each 5% is good enough resolution
2) What are the suggested absolute duty cycle values for each gear
3) Also if anyne knows what is the basic frequency for boost controller, i.e. 10Hz, that would be very good information ?
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gen2/boostsolenoid.jpg)
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As far as I know, there aren't too many people using a single solenoid as a bleed for boost control. Everything I have had experience has some sort of closed loop control (a pressure sensor in conjunction with at least one solehoid)
I would assume the OEM for cars use the MAP to make the system closed loop?
Te only single solwnoid open loop control I have used is nitrous control.
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As far as I know, there aren't too many people using a single solenoid as a bleed for boost control. Everything I have had experience has some sort of closed loop control (a pressure sensor in conjunction with at least one solehoid)
I would assume the OEM for cars use the MAP to make the system closed loop?
Te only single solwnoid open loop control I have used is nitrous control.
Thanx, must admit that I was thinking nitrous control when writing this. At some point need then to how to implement a closed loop boost controller. Closed loop is doable, just a bit more complex than open loop. The biggest unknown for closed loop is to decide how much the solenoid control duty needs to be varied and how fast it can be varied still to be effective.
Anyhow the nitrous control logic can now be based on what has already been implemented for boostfuel making the a nitrous bike very easy. The only remaining item being ignition retard that needs to be thought of.
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i dont have a lot of input on this unfortunately, never controlled boost this way, I do know that OZ Booster (pretty sure he is at bonneville now, but lives in australia) bought something off ebay that has a knob that varies frequency on a single solenoid, he said it actuallly worked pretty decent, maybe i can find out what it was and buy one and we could see how it functions and get some data.
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i dont have a lot of input on this unfortunately, never controlled boost this way, I do know that OZ Booster (pretty sure he is at bonneville now, but lives in australia) bought something off ebay that has a knob that varies frequency on a single solenoid, he said it actuallly worked pretty decent, maybe i can find out what it was and buy one and we could see how it functions and get some data.
The controlling logic should not be too difficult, the ecu knows the actual pressure and we can set the target pressure in ecueditor. Then based on this information can define if the solenoid needs to be open or closed. Anyhow for the system to be reliable I rather would control the pulsewidth to the solenoid than just open and close it. The biggest unknown is to determine how fast/slow the solenoid can be opened so that it still works. Thats the Hz number we need to know.
Shall we this put on hold and concentrate on nitrous control instead if its not common to control the boost solenoid using electronic control ?
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gen2/boostpressurecontrol.jpg)
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Petrik,, That is nice how you got it...........Each gear is a different boost level? Can set up each mode differently for boost? Dont put this on hold... I will find out the answer for your question.
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The GM boost control solenoid is said to run reliably between 19 to 40Hz. I have set busa control to run at 22Hz. Usually too much speed is less reliability therefore chose that limit.
The schematic below could work directly or with small modifications. It looks like we need to control the closing duty cycle instead of opening duty cycle ?
(http://www.cravingboost.com/cars/boost-wiring-diagram.gif)
(http://www.cobbtuning.com/images_products/SubaruBoostSystem_19.jpg)
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Depends on what you use o normally use normally closed noids, opening the solenoid would increase boost
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Petrik it seems like you never sleep.....Keep up the awesome work :thumb:
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The nitrous controller may be a nice approach to investigate first. Then transition eventually into boost control.
If someone were to implement this into Gen1 code :) :D :wink: 8) :lol:, I would certainly test....
John
Edited due to further reading....
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:TNOS:
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:TNOS:
You coming out of retirement yet?
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Depends on what you use o normally use normally closed noids, opening the solenoid would increase boost
(http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i25/2542_4lo.jpg)
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Stupid question for Petrik or Greg,
If I flashed my ECU and things went horribly wrong, can you just set it back to default (de flash it) and get all your original settings back ??
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you just file, new, that starts you with a base map
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Got the GM 3bar sensor and measured voltages against Suzuki sensor. Suzuki has an offset voltage which means that the IAP reading was off for vacuum readings. Latest version now has a new GM 3bar sensor to Suzuki sensor emulation map, anyhow have not validated this on a bike yet.
(No changes to other features than boostfuel module.)
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Got the GM 3bar sensor and measured voltages against Suzuki sensor. Suzuki has an offset voltage which means that the IAP reading was off for vacuum readings. Latest version now has a new GM 3bar sensor to Suzuki sensor emulation map, anyhow have not validated this on a bike yet.
(No changes to other features than boostfuel module.)
Will test this afternoon on the new version of boost fuel and will let you know how it runs.
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Will test this afternoon on the new version of boost fuel and will let you know how it runs.
Thanks in advance. I need an adapter and a sunny evening to test this, so takes a good few days before could/can do the GM 3bar test by myself.
EDIT - There may be still the elevation offset to be worked out.
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Will test this afternoon on the new version of boost fuel and will let you know how it runs.
Thanks in advance. I need an adapter and a sunny evening to test this, so takes a good few days before could/can do the GM 3bar test by myself.
EDIT - There may be still the elevation offset to be worked out.
Ok on the elevation offset. Will record numbers after new revision flashed and let you know as well.
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here are the results of the latest revision and with bike running:
iap kpa 65
iap diff 22
pw 49
ambient 87
everything is running smooth PetriK. looks like you hit in on the button this time.
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that's good news. :thumb:
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Depends on what you use o normally use normally closed noids, opening the solenoid would increase boost
(http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i25/2542_4lo.jpg)
There are 2 ways off adding boost. One, is to bleed off boost going to the wastegate valve so it receives a lower boost pressure. The other, in the case of a "Tial" wastegate is to add pressure to the opposite side of the valve. Look to the bottom of this page http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/attachments/turbos-turbo-related-parts/58210d1223862869-tial-wastegate-springs-diagram.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbos-turbo-related-parts/265692-tial-wastegate-springs.html&usg=__jJyBC3ohceqiTarPpNtGdwX9JmQ=&h=711&w=506&sz=47&hl=en&start=19&tbnid=owqR6EyDXdsiuM:&tbnh=140&tbnw=100&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtial%2Bwastegate%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official
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here are the results of the latest revision and with bike running:
iap kpa 65
iap diff 22
pw 49
ambient 87
everything is running smooth PetriK. looks like you hit in on the button this time.
Excellent. Next lets look the transition to the boost area and fuelling ramp up rates ?
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here are the results of the latest revision and with bike running:
iap kpa 65
iap diff 22
pw 49
ambient 87
everything is running smooth PetriK. looks like you hit in on the button this time.
Excellent. Next lets look the transition to the boost area and fuelling ramp up rates ?
I will check that as soon as i get past my small problem i am having. I am having a problem with trying to connect to my dl-32 via laptop. the cable provided with the dl-32 doesnt connect directly to a laptop. tried going and buy an adaptor cable to adapt the cord to a usb. whenever i plug in the adaptor to the laptop keeps saying i need to install software to run the adaptor cable. no software was provided with the adaptor cable. how is everyone else connecting to your dl-32 with the cable provided, or do i have to buy a specific cable directly from innovate in order to connect to the dl-32? just trying to connect to dl-32 to calibrate for correct inputs. any help is greatly appreciated!
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I am having a problem with trying to connect to my dl-32 via laptop. the cable provided with the dl-32 doesnt connect directly to a laptop. tried going and buy an adaptor cable to adapt the cord to a usb. whenever i plug in the adaptor to the laptop keeps saying i need to install software to run the adaptor cable. no software was provided with the adaptor cable. how is everyone else connecting to your dl-32 with the cable provided, or do i have to buy a specific cable directly from innovate in order to connect to the dl-32? just trying to connect to dl-32 to calibrate for correct inputs. any help is greatly appreciated!
You need the VCP (virtual com port) drivers for your USBtoRS232 converter. Most of those are automatically detected by windows, if not then google for drivers. Do you know who is the manufacturer of your USBtoRS232 cable ?
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Got the adapter cord at bestbuy. dont know for sure who the manufacturer is maybe dynex?
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Got the adapter cord at bestbuy. dont know for sure who the manufacturer is maybe dynex?
It should have sticker which tells the manufacturer. Then just google for VCP DRIVERS manufacturer. If not you could see the manufacturer under USB devices.
I dont recall DL32 but is it possible that your com port is out of range ?
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It doesnt matter if i have just the adapter plugged in and not the dl-32 serial cable hooked up or both hooked up. as soon as i plug the adapter cord to the usb port it says i need to install software for it to work. I will make a copy of what the message says and then post when i get home. I will also try and google for the VCP drivers and see what i come up with.
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if you can't find or download the driver for your adapter, go to radioshack they have the adapter's relatively cheap and they come with the software, like Petrik said your computer should detect the new hardware and load the driver or at least try to find it.... :thumb:
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Going to follow this thread. Probly going to start a Gen 2 project soon for a buddy. A big THANK YOU to PetriK, Greg, Stocker, and egarms for the time, input, and effort you guys put into making all this happen. :thumb:
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if you can't find or download the driver for your adapter, go to radioshack they have the adapter's relatively cheap and they come with the software, like Petrik said your computer should detect the new hardware and load the driver or at least try to find it.... :thumb:
When the menu pops up I select for it to go search for the software but it doesnt come back with anything. I know my dl-32 needs to be calibrated and setup properly because when I record the data stream it comes up with the rpms idling at 800 and when revved to 8k it only shows 2k. the duty cycle just by the look at it isnt recording right. once i get it setup right then i will start tuning for the boost fuel option.
Going to follow this thread. Probly going to start a Gen 2 project soon for a buddy. A big THANK YOU to PetriK, Greg, Stocker, and egarms for the time, input, and effort you guys put into making all this happen. :thumb:
I havent really done much. PetriK, smithabusa, and stocker64 have put in way more time than me in the software revisions, building the flashers and stocker64 for finding where PetriK could add something extra to the mix with his tuning background. Those are the guys that make everything we do possible for the regular joes like us to go faster without spending the gobs of money the pro teams have!
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i am just a no-body who loves to go fast........ :hys:....thanks to petrik,rr,and the rest of the crew for starting the process for us to be able to do this....and greg for bringing the flash boxes to the general public to be able to do this very easily....... :thumb:...i will continue to try to make things faster.....just watch.... :lol:
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egarms,thanks for trying so hard to test the function of the boost options... :thumb:
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egarms,thanks for trying so hard to test the function of the boost options... :thumb:
I have been working on the bike since this last xmas. I started with a stage 1 kit. I am slowly adding to it. I have parts on order for me to lower the compression for a stage 2 300hp. Im trying to go in stages so that when anyone else goes up through the stages then we all know there will be no problems with the software. When i got it tuned by the so called "best turbo tuner" here in Denver he tuned it for 13.5 afr on boost! I argued with him I wanted a lower afr and he said "no". He claimed that this is how he has tuned all of his other bikes without a problem. Im sure Cloud can chime in that plenty of other turbo busas here in Denver have blown up at other dynos. Frankly to say that I will no longer be going to that shop. Im tuning myself so that I know my tune is correct. Then the gen2 flasher came out and got one from Greg right away! I figure why not try to help out and get the ball rolling to get this more efficient tuning up and going! Thanks to everyone that has helped out in making this stuff possible.
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if you can't find or download the driver for your adapter, go to radioshack they have the adapter's relatively cheap and they come with the software, like Petrik said your computer should detect the new hardware and load the driver or at least try to find it.... :thumb:
Well i have tried several different drivers for this dynex adapter cable and no luck. on my way to radioshack and hopefully i can get my laptap to connect to my dl-32 by the end of the day. this shit is starting to piss me off. i just want to be able to datalog!!!!!!!!!
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I bought two at radioshack and the both work. one for my DL-32 and one for my microtech..since i have both open at the same time every now and then.. :thumb:
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I bought two at radioshack and the both work. one for my DL-32 and one for my microtech..since i have both open at the same time every now and then.. :thumb:
What i got was the gigaware usb to serial adapter. i just installed the software and i still cant get the dl-32 to hook up. i have tried just the adapter pluged in with no serial cable to dl-32 hooked up and with cable hooked up. i have tried with bike off, on and running. still a no go. it keeps saying plug in device and turn on. its plugged in and no work. am i missing something here? i try opening lm-1 programmer and no go. i try connecting through logworks to the serial port its plugged into but it comes up with a menu saying i cant use a real data stream if using with a 9v battery. i have not a clue what its talking about but i know something isnt right. i tried doing a quick sample recording and it comes up with an rpm thats idling at 400rpms and never revving over 3k when on the bike its revving at 7-8k. my other inputs aren't reading right either. im lost and need help!!
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Can you import PC V files into the software and if so how accurate is the conversion? Has anybody verified?
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awfully quiet in here.....
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Can you import PC V files into the software and if so how accurate is the conversion? Has anybody verified?
yes you can import PCV and Bazzaz maps, OS BOSS in australia did i nice comparison thats posted up on h.org it was pretty close, he did have to add some fuel with ecu between 4-6K RPM i think it was.
As always though, Its always nice to see A/F readings with a logger or on a dyno when making changes etc. Especially if the map you have was just downloaded off the internet vs being custom mapped on the bike.
Greg
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awfully quiet in here.....
I am working on getting my dl-32 to datalog properly and once im done with that i will be tunning with boost fuel mode. Hopefully i can get it to log correctly and go for a ride today or tomorrow!
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I am working on getting my dl-32 to datalog properly and once im done with that i will be tunning with boost fuel mode. Hopefully i can get it to log correctly and go for a ride today or tomorrow!
Excellent. Let us know what to improve in boostfuelling based on your testing.
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I am working on getting my dl-32 to datalog properly and once im done with that i will be tunning with boost fuel mode. Hopefully i can get it to log correctly and go for a ride today or tomorrow!
Excellent. Let us know what to improve in boostfuelling based on your testing.
I will definately let you know what problems i encounter or if just a slight change is needed.
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Got with busa2001 and have some changes to make on my dl-32 wiring install. hopefully will get all the kinks worked out tonight and start tuning for boost fuel shortly.
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Got with busa2001 and have some changes to make on my dl-32 wiring install. hopefully will get all the kinks worked out tonight and start tuning for boost fuel shortly.
DL-32 is definately very good piece of equipment, talking from experience. One thing to remember is that it may need some soft rubber (e.g. neopren) below it just to ensure that the memorycard is not shaken so much that it looses contact.
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Got with busa2001 and have some changes to make on my dl-32 wiring install. hopefully will get all the kinks worked out tonight and start tuning for boost fuel shortly.
DL-32 is definately very good piece of equipment, talking from experience. One thing to remember is that it may need some soft rubber (e.g. neopren) below it just to ensure that the memorycard is not shaken so much that it looses contact.
I actually have some spare neoprene at home in my tool box so i will mount the dl-32 with some. thanks for the advice
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Can you import PC V files into the software and if so how accurate is the conversion? Has anybody verified?
yes you can import PCV and Bazzaz maps, OS BOSS in australia did i nice comparison thats posted up on h.org it was pretty close, he did have to add some fuel with ecu between 4-6K RPM i think it was.
As always though, Its always nice to see A/F readings with a logger or on a dyno when making changes etc. Especially if the map you have was just downloaded off the internet vs being custom mapped on the bike.
Greg
Did a search and can't find the thread?
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Sorry forgot to say its over on h.org in gen2 talk stickied, has like 25 pages of posts lol, its buried in there somewhere I can look later today if u can't find it
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Sorry forgot to say its over on h.org in gen2 talk stickied, has like 25 pages of posts lol, its buried in there somewhere I can look later today if u can't find it
Found it Thanks
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Got with busa2001 and have some changes to make on my dl-32 wiring install. hopefully will get all the kinks worked out tonight and start tuning for boost fuel shortly.
glad i could help..... :thumb:
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Here are a few more pics, a lot of people are having a rough time inserting the ECU pins, this is an absolute must to get correct. if you dont hear the pin CLICK then don't bother trying to view gauge data or flash, it wont work.
First off remove the orange cap so you can see how far in the connector all the factory pins are, they all bottom out. Yours must also bottom out, or they wont touch the pins on the ECU, and device can't work if the pins dont make contact.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1399.jpg)
Make sure you are inserting the pin with with the right orientation.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1400.jpg)
When I did mine, i popped the connector back off slightly so I could see if the wires were going all the way in from the back. I took a pair of needle nose and squeezed the pin a little bit from side to side, that seems to be the issue, the connector slots are real narrow, so the pin needs to be very skinny going in.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1402.jpg)
Notice how my pins all bottom out now
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1403.jpg)
When all done I took some electrical tape and routed my 2 wire harness over to yosh and sds plugs, and taped it all back up so it looks 100% factory
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1404.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1405.jpg)
I left the larger harness on so I can just plug the box in, in the tail for quick and easy flashing
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1406.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1407.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1408.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1410.jpg)
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/DSC_1410.jpg)
Nice additional pictures Greg. :thumb:
Looks like someone needs a Tiger Racing Laptop Stand.... :hys:
http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=141825.new#new (http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=141825.new#new)
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funny you say that i am ordering one now LOL
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I like your motorcycle lift. I have the same one.
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Man greg you cant hide money.......
Well on my bike as of now my bazzaz is max at 50% at about 9-10lbs I get FI 36,37,38.....Secondary injectors......So we are gonna try the bazzaz map into the ecu this week ANd start the tuning with it......Got my fingers crossed
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Man greg you cant hide money.......
Well on my bike as of now my bazzaz is max at 50% at about 9-10lbs I get FI 36,37,38.....Secondary injectors......So we are gonna try the bazzaz map into the ecu this week ANd start the tuning with it......Got my fingers crossed
If i was wealthy i wouldn't be up soldering every night after my normal day job :hys:
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Well on my bike as of now my bazzaz is max at 50% at about 9-10lbs I get FI 36,37,38.....Secondary injectors......So we are gonna try the bazzaz map into the ecu this week ANd start the tuning with it......Got my fingers crossed
Do remember that in the afr you are likely to see some RAM AIR compensation "richness" unless you set the 5th gear ram air compensation on. (ee2 will not use the gear map information from bz, it rather uses the stock ram air which is already built in the ecu. the gear compensation in bz is just a % figure where as the built in maps are more precise estimations of how ram air works in real life.)
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Petrik.....On the BZ box it goes to 50% My levels are there now and when I hit around 10lbs its throughs the FI lite for the 2nd dairies.....Now If I raise the numbers on the stock ECU at 100% throttle Then can I lower the #'s on the BZ box? Till we can get it tuned totally on the ecu..I dont k ow what the 5th gr comp is.....
What map would I raise the fuel on the 100% TPS from 6500-11000rpm?
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Would I put the BZ map in.............?
TPS fuelmap?
IAP fuelmap?
MS Fuelmap?
Also I tried once and it say maximum value exceeded?
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Finally got a test run in for the fuel boost option. So far you need to adjust in the lower rpms but as far as boost goes i took it up and it boosted at 11.1 afr ratio. now just more riding and more tuning. i tried downloadinga new updated revision and it wont let me flash. it keeps coming up as error. could you have a look at it please PetriK. other than that works great petrik just some minor tuning is needed.
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what error? so power commander is removed?
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i just downloaded 2.0.4.33 a couple of minutes ago, and flashing with it right now seems to be working fine for me.
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Greg what map do we adjust fuel in for full throttle?
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TPS, someone hasn't been watching their tutorial videos :P
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the ve map.......
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Finally got a test run in for the fuel boost option. So far you need to adjust in the lower rpms but as far as boost goes i took it up and it boosted at 11.1 afr ratio. now just more riding and more tuning. i tried downloadinga new updated revision and it wont let me flash. it keeps coming up as error. could you have a look at it please PetriK. other than that works great petrik just some minor tuning is needed.
Great to hear about the progress. Will be interesting to know how much boost you can run with the stock system.
Please post more infor on the error and possibly your latest bin (over email). Without more informtion I would guess that it could possibly be as simple as the com port may need to be set up again ?
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I tried resetting up the com port but it was already set to the correct com port. i will try again and right down what the error gives me. I rode to work today which was about a half hour log session for tuning. For the most part glancing down at my air fuel gauge typically it runs around 11-13 with occasional 14 being seen while cruising. Boosting im seeing a solid low 11 afr. Just some minor tweaking and you will be at 11.7 easy. For just putting this programing together PetriK and not having a turbo bike it works dam good for a base map! How long have you been doing this for?
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oh, just remembered - after including the boost solenoid controller logic and as we are using the same Tx pin for output as for programming it kind of needs an additional reset that has not yet been included into ecueditor as turbofuelling is not used widely. If it is this then just using the engine data screen and pressing disconnect/connect (i.e. button twice) you reset the ecu and can reflash it while having the boost solenoid controller active. Right now this is a bit annoying and when improving the turbo fuelling we can most likely get rid of this. For a normal user this has no effect.
I guess boost fuelling took around two to three weeks to implement, i.e. something like 5-6 evenings to get the turbo fuelling where it is today including a preliminary boost solenoid control. Based on this amount of effort I really do not understand how some of these products costs thousands when knowing how simple these are. To put this statement in perspective it was early '70s when I tuned a first time a carburettor, mid '90s when first time started to look into chip tuning and first ecu disassembly i read at around 2000 which was already a turbo car ecu - this experience tells that sometimes we get lucky with educated guesses, but on the other hand sometimes its really a pain to find a simple root cause of a problem. With turbo fuelling we still need to work on it to understand the fuel system limitations and to get the boost control solenoid working - particularly the electronics needs to be designed that drives the solenoid.
The reason why I like the ecu tuning instead of piggy back add on boxes is the fact that it removes unnecessary failure points and uncertainity, but saying that I recognize that for a person without the ability to read the programming code inside the ecu this someitmes is like black magic that one wants to avoid - until you see or read with your own eyes how the trick is done ;-).
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thanks for all your effort and encouragement petrik..
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thanks for all your effort and encouragement petrik..
Yes, most definitely! I'm looking forward to all that you uncover.
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Flashed the ecu today......Added big numbers on 100% area.....Didnt get full tune on EE2 still have the BZ & ZAFM on bike......All in all The ECU picked up for the fueling....MAde 331 hp @ 13-14lbs of boost.....Bike throws 2nd injectors codes after every pass but doesnt affect performance.......
IT would be alot better to have controll over the injectors is this possible PETRIK?
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Flashed the ecu today......Added big numbers on 100% area.....Didnt get full tune on EE2 still have the BZ & ZAFM on bike......All in all The ECU picked up for the fueling....MAde 331 hp @ 13-14lbs of boost.....Bike throws 2nd injectors codes after every pass but doesnt affect performance.......
IT would be alot better to have controll over the injectors is this possible PETRIK?
wow great #'s at that boost....great job...what fp are you running...???
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which injectors are you referring to???primary,or secondary?,or both...... :wink:
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which injectors are you referring to???primary,or secondary?,or both...... :wink:
he has an 08 and at 10lbs with the bazzaz it would throw secondary maxout codes for the gen2 and all stock injectors. he now has programmed with boost fuel option in ee2. sounds very good and good numbers. thats still the stock bottom end i believe if my memory serves me correct? 14lbs with just .080 spacer, studs, ferrea valves and valve springs, maybe main studs is what im going to be building this winter. i can't wait for that to happen! turbogixxer if im right about above mentioned are you running anything else like h2o injection or intercooler?
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both injectors for controll....
No havnt flashed whole ecu yet just the 90-100% range.....Still have the msd sb6 hooked up for timing........I have no water injection.....I have a 4lb spring in the wastegate and 10lbs on the ams1000.....and it was abot high 11's A/F........which injectors are you referring to???primary,or secondary?,or both...... :wink:
he has an 08 and at 10lbs with the bazzaz it would throw secondary maxout codes for the gen2 and all stock injectors. he now has programmed with boost fuel option in ee2. sounds very good and good numbers. thats still the stock bottom end i believe if my memory serves me correct? 14lbs with just .080 spacer, studs, ferrea valves and valve springs, maybe main studs is what im going to be building this winter. i can't wait for that to happen! turbogixxer if im right about above mentioned are you running anything else like h2o injection or intercooler?
yeah that sounds about right.....244hp on waste gate running fat.....Need to hook up a hobb switch so I can switch maps for the 2 diffenet maps......
?????? fp? fuel pressure? 40 static around 80 on boost.....Is that what you ment?
I hope PETRIK can find a way to make timing work from boost reference.......
getting ready for the track tomorrow
(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k113/dragster_01/100_1045.jpg)
(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k113/dragster_01/NEW%2008/Picture167.jpg)
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Looking good turbogixxer! Let us know how you do at the track. :thumb:
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Very glad to see more progress with gen2 turbos and ee2. Impressive numbers you have there...
IT would be alot better to have controll over the injectors is this possible PETRIK?
Are you saying that you run out of injector capability when using boostfuelling or is bz still connected ? If using boostfuel module could you post an image of your boostfuel map and show the point where it throws the code ? On workbench I am not seeing this happening with boostfuel module: I have run it up to around 12-14psi at which point secondaries are 100% and primaries are around 90% open. Anyhow with 1:1 reg and an upgraded fuelpump you should never get into that duty cycle ? What I am basically saying here is that boostfuel gives out everything she has throug the injectors so no need for balancing the injector output.
With ecueditor boostfuel module sometime in the future its very likely that we can also get lower ignition advance with higher boost.
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I have a feeling he isn't using boost fuel module but will wait tuebos response
Petrik it is possible to get this error code if he were just using tps table?
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I have a feeling he isn't using boost fuel module but will wait tuebos response
Petrik it is possible to get this error code if he were just using tps table?
Sure - if you use a piggyback then its very easy to exceed the capability. Basically to succeed you would need two piggyback computers and then balance the fuel between those - will not really work in practise.
With very big numbers on TPS map at 100% column you most likelyjust have exceeded the secondaries and are adding fuel only to primaries. The more you add to 100% TPS map the smaller the remaining duty cycle window gets for any additional piggynback to operate. I can understand that if someone has not exceeded the secondaries capacity adding fuel to TPS will add fuel to secondaries before it adds to primaries. In a way this strategy helps you to max out the secondary injector capacity with a brute force method. When using this method then one really needs to remove fuel from the piggyback controller used for boost.
E.g. as an imaginary sample, have not checked the actual values, but this should get an idea:
10000rpm, 100%TPS, fuelcell value 200
--> Secondaries 80%, not exceeded the secondaries capacity
--> Primaries 20%, piggyback 50% -> 30% total fuel, still withing operatinonal working window
10000rpm, 100%TPS, fuelcell value 250
--> Secondaries 100%, what ever fuel you add from your piggyback it does not add fuel anymore at this point
--> Primaries 60%, piggyback 50% -> 90% total fuel, still withing operatinonal working window
10000rpm, 100%TPS, fuelcell value 300
--> Secondaries 100%, what ever fuel you add from your piggyback it does not add fuel
--> Primaries 90%, piggyback 50% -> 135% total fuel now you exceeded the primary capacity well over
Hope this helps.
ps.Ecu is very intelligent in fuel balancing. You set the injector balance target on the map based on the tables. When you exceed the injector capacity then the ecu adds fuel using the other set of injectors. So at low rpm primaries have the lead but then add fuel until first maxing out the primaries and then add fuel until max out secondaries. When you use boostfuel option in the ecueditor the ecu will determine the injector "free" capacity and utilize it for additional fuelling regardless of what ever the primary injector balance is avail. As its very easy now to add the boostfuel by just changing one sensor I would rather use that and let ecu to determine what is the free injector capacity.
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i should have clarified, my guess is that he is using ECU editor TPS table, but maybe he is also using the bazzaz as well, we will await further info :lol:
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oh, just remembered - after including the boost solenoid controller logic and as we are using the same Tx pin for output as for programming it kind of needs an additional reset that has not yet been included into ecueditor as turbofuelling is not used widely. If it is this then just using the engine data screen and pressing disconnect/connect (i.e. button twice) you reset the ecu and can reflash it while having the boost solenoid controller active. Right now this is a bit annoying and when improving the turbo fuelling we can most likely get rid of this. For a normal user this has no effect.
Oops somehow i missed this post, I have a feeling this is the issue Egarms, check out the new flasher box i sent out but got a feeling this is probably it eh?
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oh, just remembered - after including the boost solenoid controller logic and as we are using the same Tx pin for output as for programming it kind of needs an additional reset that has not yet been included into ecueditor as turbofuelling is not used widely. If it is this then just using the engine data screen and pressing disconnect/connect (i.e. button twice) you reset the ecu and can reflash it while having the boost solenoid controller active. Right now this is a bit annoying and when improving the turbo fuelling we can most likely get rid of this. For a normal user this has no effect.
Oops somehow i missed this post, I have a feeling this is the issue Egarms, check out the new flasher box i sent out but got a feeling this is probably it eh?
I tried clicking off/on the connect button but i didnt get it to work. i will try again once the new flasher shows up. Can petrik put in a reset button as to get rid of this annoying problem if indeed thats what it is?
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i should have clarified, my guess is that he is using ECU editor TPS table, but maybe he is also using the bazzaz as well, we will await further info :lol:
yES..... We added fuel to the TPS mapon the 100% range still have the Bazzaz hooked up. Didnt have time to fully tune for boostfuel I think that will be a winter project........
On the EE2 screen the injector %'s it said 2nd 80% Prim 40% on the 330 hp run......The codes pop up AFTER you cut the throttle at about 10,300 rpm......
ON the Bazzaz box we lower that map ALOT to compinsate for what we did to the ECU.....
We compared the Bazzaz AZFM to the dyno wide band and it was pretty close to what you had to do for adjustments........
I can post pics of if you would like just let me know which ones.....
I am using a external fuel pump with a raising rate regulator....40psi static 80psi under boost
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if you are using the bazzaz to add fuel in addition to ecu editor that would explain the codes, to me anyway i think that makes sense. 80% duty cycle on the ecu editor screen, but then you are adding fuel on top of that with the bazzaz, going down a confusing road of tuning fuel with multiple devices :lol:
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Thanks for info. Will be interesting to hear if the codes will not pop up when replacing bz and using only boostfuel module. I can understand how a combination of high map values and a piggyback bz box will cause this particularly after releasing throttle.
About "On the EE2 screen the injector %'s it said 2nd 80% Prim 40% ...". That info screen also says "ECU info - only for desktop testing (not valid info for tuning)". I would like to take this opportunity and reiforce that this is as it says not valid info for tuning, those % values have nothing to do with injector duty cycles.
Sounds you guys are having great fun with turbos ;-)
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We tried to see if we could lower the numbers on the bazzaz from adding to the ecu.. As I said earlier we didnt have time for a full tune on the ecu so we played with it for alittle......We were seeing how the injectors would work out. Definatly will try the boostfuel in do time Still need the msd sb6 hooked up for data logging and timing.....
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Thanks for info. Will be interesting to hear if the codes will not pop up when replacing bz and using only boostfuel module. I can understand how a combination of high map values and a piggyback bz box will cause this particularly after releasing throttle.
About "On the EE2 screen the injector %'s it said 2nd 80% Prim 40% ...". That info screen also says "ECU info - only for desktop testing (not valid info for tuning)". I would like to take this opportunity and reiforce that this is as it says not valid info for tuning, those % values have nothing to do with injector duty cycles.
Sounds you guys are having great fun with turbos ;-)
Yeah I read that that what it said to to tell you.
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Good deal. Are you guys planning to use SB6 for ignition timing only? Could propably get the boostfuel module ignition timing implement in a few days if there is a real need for that. Also if there is no need for boost solenoid control that output can be used for autoshifter at a given rpm. Just dont want to put any effort into this before there is a real need.
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Good deal. Are you guys planning to use SB6 for ignition timing only? Could propably get the boostfuel module ignition timing implement in a few days if there is a real need for that. Also if there is no need for boost solenoid control that output can be used for autoshifter at a given rpm. Just dont want to put any effort into this before there is a real need.
Using the sb6 to retard timing.....PLease work on the boostfuel module ignition and KEEP boost solinoid control that will work out good..ANY way to add a ramp rate to the boost controll?
You should retard timing when you get up to 8-10psi well start retarding the timing.......
headiing to the track in 4 hours cant wait...... :lol:
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I had planned on trying to use the boost solenoid control after i get done lowering compression this winter. Could it be possible to have a selection of what you want to use either boost solenoid control or autoshift mode? i have the 2step with autoshift ordered through greg so i wont need the autoshift capability. Also what solenoid part number do i need in order to control the boost with? I am willing to give that a shot and see if there are any problems with that. Plan on dropping my motor and lowering compression after the last race here which is the 20th of this month.
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Egarms send me an email ill get you setup with part numbers for boost control, a small circuit will have to be made up as well
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ANY way to add a ramp rate to the boost controll
As soon as we get the interface electronics from Greg we can make the boost fuel work purrfect, including also ramp rate control. Today its only max boost per gear, but adding an 1d or 2d map is very easy for it.
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wow great job everyone.....this was a dream that became reality..... :thumb: only if we could do it for the gen1......
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oh, just remembered - after including the boost solenoid controller logic and as we are using the same Tx pin for output as for programming it kind of needs an additional reset that has not yet been included into ecueditor as turbofuelling is not used widely. If it is this then just using the engine data screen and pressing disconnect/connect (i.e. button twice) you reset the ecu and can reflash it while having the boost solenoid controller active. Right now this is a bit annoying and when improving the turbo fuelling we can most likely get rid of this. For a normal user this has no effect.
Okay so i just flashed my bench setup ecu with boost fuel, and just like Egrams said i couldn't reflash it again as it wouldn't reset like you are saying Petrik.
Turn my power supply off then back on and hit flash and WAMMO we are in business :)
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are you guys going to use a solid state driver for the solonoid?
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oh, just remembered - after including the boost solenoid controller logic and as we are using the same Tx pin for output as for programming it kind of needs an additional reset that has not yet been included into ecueditor as turbofuelling is not used widely. If it is this then just using the engine data screen and pressing disconnect/connect (i.e. button twice) you reset the ecu and can reflash it while having the boost solenoid controller active. Right now this is a bit annoying and when improving the turbo fuelling we can most likely get rid of this. For a normal user this has no effect.
Okay so i just flashed my bench setup ecu with boost fuel, and just like Egrams said i couldn't reflash it again as it wouldn't reset like you are saying Petrik.
Turn my power supply off then back on and hit flash and WAMMO we are in business :)
Ok thats a good thing. Once i get the flasher i will try it out real quick to make sure. thanks again smithabusa.
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Stocker I wired up what petrik posted the other day last night and had the solenoid cycling last night on the bench via the ecu so 1 step in the right direction :)
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Depending on which side you put the solenoid I may still need to modify the code - takes only a few seconds, but need to know.
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Petrik it will be setup so that turning the solenoid on will bleed air off to increase boost, so its normal state should be off
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Egrams, this isn't pretty by a mile, but its stuff i have here and it seems to be cycling the solenoid with the ecu, so its working from my end. i tossed in a flow control, a muffler speed control (which depending on how things go may or may not want to put on the outlet of the solenoid to control how much fast it bleeds off when it pulses). I dont have any straight fittings for the flow control, but your local hardware store for a couple of bucks should have that. Just plug it into the harness on your bike and should work, make sure petrik updates the code before you go running it on the bike :thumb:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/boost.jpg)
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Sweet. I am finishing up hooking my aquamist water injection on a couple things and will try it out as soon as i get it.
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Greg thats some nice stuff you put together........Are you gonna make these connectors for the boost stuff?
I think Matt & Nem are going to MILAN on friday
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That's the intent, this is a super rougj functional prototype egarms is going to test, would never sell anything that looked like that.
Nem and E are, matt isn't though. Going to watch them in a few hours
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Dang it. Milan?
Gonna be at Martin all night tonight.
Just perfect weather for some dragracing. 8)
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Yep milan just got here
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PetriK i am going to be testing the solenoid boost control when i get it installed hopefully today or tomorrow. i went through ee2 last night i tried to change the boost numbers for the different gears and i couldnt change them. can you make it to where we can change the settings for different amounts of boost for different gears. i will testing on a stock motor and run 6psi with water injection on pump gas and try an extra 2-3 psi with some race gas and water injection. the current wastegate spring i have is a 5psi spring. also greg mentioned something about getting something else coded in ee2 for proper use of the solenoid boost control. and one more idea if possible to change would be to make it where we dont have to reset when trying to use and change fuel settings with boost fuel option selected. i figured out how to reset it but its a pain in the ass when you have to reset it when trying to flash all the time. thanks for all the support you have provided on being able to do pretty much everything with the stock ecu. keep up the good work!
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put the smallest spring you have in it, a boost controller can only add boost on top of your wastegate, so 5 is as low as you will be able to go
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put the smallest spring you have in it, a boost controller can only add boost on top of your wastegate, so 5 is as low as you will be able to go
I didnt plan on going bigger with the wastegate spring. i just put that info in so just in case PetriK needed it. what was needed to be added in for more coding to ee2 for proper use?
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right now its setup so that the solenoid is normally open i believe, it needs to be reversed.
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Kewl! I will be hopefully getting it installed today or tomorrow. then start tuning for it once i know the coding has been changed and im good to go. there is a nice quiet place i can go with some long straight roads to tune. makes it so much nicer tuning with no one around to worry about. almost done on my water injection also. just wiring up the injector controller and install (i believe to be a hobbs switch) in the up pipe. all this work to get done and as soon as i get it all done and go to the last race of the summer it will be time to tear it all back apart! gotta love more boost as you can never have enough!
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excellent, so we are soon in business.
i am travelling abroad for the end of this week so will be weekend before i can look into the code. Thanks for the patience...
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Smithabusa I have a question on flashing the ecu. If you flash the ecu to 12,500 rpm will the shift light increase to the new value of the rpm ? The maxx stock rpm for 08 busa is 11500 rpm.
........Thanks
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I dounbt it, the shift light is only controlled by the gauges
Limiter at 12500? What's been done to the bike that's a whole lot of rpm
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Smith I was just using 12500 rpm as a example. So there's no way to move the light any higher.
.......Thanks
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put the smallest spring you have in it, a boost controller can only add boost on top of your wastegate, so 5 is as low as you will be able to go
TRUE.....
So guys I been chasing a code on my bike for a few days" C40" I know its the ISCV but cant figure out why..... IT happens on decell at low Throttle position....... :cry:
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what tests on isc has been made ? The procedures are outlined in service manual.
i would guess that misadjusted tps may trigger isc fault as it may be tps that is used to detect when bike is idling.
what is your tps% at idle on ecueditor screen?
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Smith I was just using 12500 rpm as a example. So there's no way to move the light any higher.
.......Thanks
I have been wondering the same thing. And actually that 11,5 is around 11,1 actual
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what tests on isc has been made ? The procedures are outlined in service manual.
i would guess that misadjusted tps may trigger isc fault as it may be tps that is used to detect when bike is idling.
what is your tps% at idle on ecueditor screen?
it jumps from .6 to 1.2 tps
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petrik..... Say we get a ecu thats been mapped what do you do to download the map and save it?
Verify checksum???
Verify Ecu?
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petrik..... Say we get a ecu thats been mapped what do you do to download the map and save it?
Verify checksum???
Verify Ecu?
If I try the above it wont let me. Says reset ecu
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Toggle in flash position, bike in neutral rub switch on and key on? Have u flashed it with boostfuel?
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what tests on isc has been made ? The procedures are outlined in service manual.
i would guess that misadjusted tps may trigger isc fault as it may be tps that is used to detect when bike is idling.
what is your tps% at idle on ecueditor screen?
it jumps from .6 to 1.2 tps
Should be more or less steady 1.2%
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what tests on isc has been made ? The procedures are outlined in service manual.
i would guess that misadjusted tps may trigger isc fault as it may be tps that is used to detect when bike is idling.
what is your tps% at idle on ecueditor screen?
it jumps from .6 to 1.2 tps
Should be more or less steady 1.2%
So it should be 1.2%????
Is there a way to adjust it?
No I havent flashed in boostfuel yet .....
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You can adjust the TPS by setting the TPS sensor correctly. It may be also off if you have a piggyback computer connected to the harness.
Just published a new ee for egarms. Now the duty cycle should be according to your setup. I not, its easy to change. Also made the mapC limits a bit lower. Those will be adjustable later, but that requires some time just to write that to the ee2 user interface.
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Thanks for the notice PetriK on the new revision. I will try it out tomorrow. I did a last minute change and decided to relocate my battery to my swingarm so i could have some more room to mount my water tank and water injection pump. I will snap a couple pics when i get done welding and painting my battery box.
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Thanks for the notice PetriK on the new revision. I will try it out tomorrow. I did a last minute change and decided to relocate my battery to my swingarm so i could have some more room to mount my water tank and water injection pump. I will snap a couple pics when i get done welding and painting my battery box.
ok - I would be surprised (as usual) if all this would work without any probelms from day one. But as soon as we get it running we can start improving and implementing everytying. The concept as such is very simple and programming code well documented for anyone to start contributing for this.
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How hard is the programming code to understand? I do a fair amount of programming for PLC's for automation in the industrial field. Is it something similar to that?
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How do we pull the map thats in the bike already? I dont want to erase whats in there.
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Toggle in flash position, bike in neutral rub switch on and key on
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Ethan call me
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Petrik did you take the injector % off with new download?
New version wont let me flash. Says Unexspected or missing ecu response. Reset ecu and reprogram....
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Try cycling key off then on then flash
Just in case u turned boost fuel on mistalenly or something
Make sure your pins in ecu connector are inserted all the way
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Tried that key on/off...
ENgine data works
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Anyone have a genII map for a stock motor bike with brocks exhaust ?
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I do :)
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Well some awesome news in the Gen 2 boost department.
Just got off the phone with a gentleman with a fully built motor, GT-35R turbo'd Gen II busa. He has made about 400 hp using a Bazzaz box, stock injectors, and a FMU with about 100 psi of fuel pressure.
but the bazzaz box is limited to a 50% increase in fuel, so he wants to try ECU Editor with Boost fuel option, going to be shipping him out a setup on Saturday, he wants to make as much hp as possible using stock injectors, so hopefully this should be an awesome guinnea pig :)
He stated with 2 power commanders best they could get good fueling for was about 300 hp.
Egarms, the pressure is off bud if you wanna tear your motor apart to lower compression :lol:
Greg
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Sounds good....Using a GT35 with an FMU to make over 400HP on stock injectors....seems a bit dangerous
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wow..
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Hey Stocker, do you know if Petrik is working with RR on the ZX14 flasher?
Frank shut all updates down on his site.
Not to jack this thread I'll start a zx14 flasher thread.
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Petrik is only working on busa stuff
I would contact RR directly for anything non busa
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PetriK is only working on Gen2 busa stuff pretty much.
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Well some awesome news in the Gen 2 boost department.
Just got off the phone with a gentleman with a fully built motor, GT-35R turbo'd Gen II busa. He has made about 400 hp using a Bazzaz box, stock injectors, and a FMU with about 100 psi of fuel pressure.
but the bazzaz box is limited to a 50% increase in fuel, so he wants to try ECU Editor with Boost fuel option, going to be shipping him out a setup on Saturday, he wants to make as much hp as possible using stock injectors, so hopefully this should be an awesome guinnea pig :)
He stated with 2 power commanders best they could get good fueling for was about 300 hp.
Egarms, the pressure is off bud if you wanna tear your motor apart to lower compression :lol:
Greg
Thanks Greg I will be starting to tear it down then. I will start a build page in members projects eventually. I will start taking a bunch of photos with everything i do. But damn 400hp on stock injectors and fmu only! thats nuts! im thinking a need to buy another gen2 so i can have a heavy hitter for the track and another to ride while i work on the heavy hitter! these gen2's are starting to be awesome. once he maxes out the stock fuel injectors maybe he can try to see if s2000's will swap out for some added fueling with stock ecu?
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Hey Stocker, do you know if Petrik is working with RR on the ZX14 flasher?
Frank shut all updates down on his site.
Not to jack this thread I'll start a zx14 flasher thread.
the rev and speed limiters can be done as of a week or so ago.......contact rr,or just wait till rr gets his account activated...i would talk about it on psb,but i do not want a slap on the hand for talking about it....... :hys: :hys: :hys: we all got to respect frank's rules...and no talking without sponsership account...... :thumb:
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All's quite on the flashing front ................. so to be taken everyone's happily flashing away :?: :thumb:
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Well some awesome news in the Gen 2 boost department.
Just got off the phone with a gentleman with a fully built motor, GT-35R turbo'd Gen II busa. He has made about 400 hp using a Bazzaz box, stock injectors, and a FMU with about 100 psi of fuel pressure.
but the bazzaz box is limited to a 50% increase in fuel, so he wants to try ECU Editor with Boost fuel option, going to be shipping him out a setup on Saturday, he wants to make as much hp as possible using stock injectors, so hopefully this should be an awesome guinnea pig :)
He stated with 2 power commanders best they could get good fueling for was about 300 hp.
Egarms, the pressure is off bud if you wanna tear your motor apart to lower compression :lol:
Greg
Eddie went to the dyno today, was cut short due to a damaged turbo that took a while to figure out.
But he was successful at going from gate pressure of 6 psi all the way up to about 20 psi (which was only about 330 hp due to messed up turbine wheel) and was able to get good a/f at each boost level using Petriks boostfuel table :)
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the s2000 will not drop on the stock rail. Im not 100% sure yet but the Pico IWP069 yellow tops should as they did with the 05-06 fuel rails
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They look good Rob :D
maybe a slight adaptation in the TB's
http://www.racetronix.com/product/Injectors/RX-MM-IWP.jpg
http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=IWP069&eq=&Tp=
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They look good Rob :D
maybe a slight adaptation in the TB's
http://www.racetronix.com/product/Injectors/RX-MM-IWP.jpg
http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=IWP069&eq=&Tp=
Just get some pigtails and wire them in :thumb:
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Awesome job eddiewho and steve,,,,, :thumb: Glad to help out with the busa head for your motor.....
I flashed mine but still have the bazzaz w/azfm on it....we stopped at 330 hp cause of stock rods....... :(
Gonna redyno this week and set the bazzaz up as boost reference instead......
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Awesome job eddiewho and steve,,,,, :thumb: Glad to help out with the busa head for your motor.....
I flashed mine but still have the bazzaz w/azfm on it....we stopped at 330 hp cause of stock rods....... :(
Gonna redyno this week and set the bazzaz up as boost reference instead......
why not set the ecu up as boost reference?
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Which #'s are my ECU ID: , to paste into ECUeditor ?
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww138/Quikshifter/30092009101.jpg)
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32920-15H00 is your ecu number, though you aren't pasting it into ecu editor, where are you located again?
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Typing it in I meant to say ! Australia !
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Ok heres what Bry did today.....We took my bazzaz map that was maped @ 4lbs and put into the ecu as a base map.......We got ruffly 250hp+ :D
Now we started to add boost using BOOSTFUEL mode with the AMS1000 2 pounds at a time and we stop at 8 lbs on the AMS controller which we got 329 hp :D :D And we got 330hp using the bazzaz BUT the AMS was @ 10lbs :? :?
Petrik and Greg did an awesome JOB. :thumb:
On a side note PETRIK can you recalibrate the increments on the RPM by 500 & PSI by 1 psi??
Now after removing the bazzaz and using boostfuel I have nomore injector codes :D :D
Plenty of fuel left and cant wait to put rods and pistons in it and push it to 425hp range :bah:
I tried recording the run on the laptop to show how it works but it was choppy.....
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Glad to here you used ecu for it all with nice results
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This with 1:1 regulator or fmu? What was max number in your boost table, can you email it to me?
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damm.....i wonder who came up with the idea that the gen2 has enough reserve fueling to support MORE hp using the ecu ONLY.....?
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:hys: :hys: :hys: :hys: :hys: :hys: :hys: :hys: :hys: :hys: :hys: :hys: :hys: :hys: :hys: :hys: :hys:
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everyone is doing a great job.....petrik with his knowledge,greg with his products and all the beta testers...even though there is so few of you....great job guy's...... :thumb:
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It was with a FMU with around 80psi under boost.........
Another question on the boost table in the 12000 range you cant add fuel it only would take away.........
Greg my max was in the 8 psi column was 24...............Do you know if petrik can recalibrate the scale???
It was really impressive how it worked the A/F held steady acrossed the board.
(http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k113/dragster_01/SH.jpg)
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Excellent jog turbogixxer! :thumb:
You really shouldn't need 1psi resolution for the boost fueling. The software will interpolate between the points to fuel the "in between pressures.
You mention "calibrating" the software. Wht do you mean by this? The map sensor should be pretty accurate witht eh numbers PetriK used.
John
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Fixed the bug in 12000rpm tuning which allowed only removing fuel, thanks for the hint. Also hide the duty valve settings and made those disabled from the ecueditor interface to avoid confusion. There is a currently a hidden parameter that will enable that setting when we get ready to test it. (This version is not released yet, shall put it visible after I can do some testing that it really works on desktop).
The map resolution you guys need to agree. we can use any number of points, its simply a matter of what is good for tuning. Too many points makes the tuning sometimes time consuming. Like john said, in between the points an interpolated value will be used so nothing is lost whilst the amount of point is kept low.
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Petrik It worked out really nice. :thumb: Are you still working on boost controller side? Can there be a ramp rate applied maybe like 0 to 1 second? And will we be able to change the numbers in the table?
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Petrik It worked out really nice. :thumb: Are you still working on boost controller side? Can there be a ramp rate applied maybe like 0 to 1 second? And will we be able to change the numbers in the table?
Very glad to hear ! Yep - the boost controller part is waiting for someone to start testing it. E.g map editing is just pending having basically one night avail for implementing the editing. On the other side the ramp time chart e.g. still requires further investigation how to implement. Even though all this is very simple right now there may be some delays from my side due to being extremely busy with the day time stuff.
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Can anyone explain about the soft limiters? Thanks.
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how high is everyone reving their gen2...especially turbo bikes..???????
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I put my Turbo rev limit at 11500. Planning on lowering it another 300-400rpm once i install in ss valves. Unless someone can recommend a better rev limit for ss valves in a gen2 turbo bike?
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we have gone as high as 13,000 w/gt-30 , why i asked is because i have different results from day to day?? one day it will rev fine other times it will not go to 13,000...and thats flashing with both romraider with custon def file and then ee2.....
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Can anyone explain about the soft limiters? Thanks.
I was trying to find that out too ! the difference between hard cut & soft cut !
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I was doing mine @ 10,500
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Can anyone explain about the soft limiters? Thanks.
I was trying to find that out too ! the difference between hard cut & soft cut !
on a turbo or nos bike i would use hardcut which shuts all the fuel off, softcut starts pulling fuel out of 2 cylinders, which will lean the motor out, on a stock motor thats probably just fine as thats how zuki did it, on a turbo / nos bike i would stick to hard cut, its much more noticeable when you hit a hard limiter.
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Hey thanks, but I was wondering where does Suzuki use the soft limiters?
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each time you smack the limiter you are hitting the soft limiter, if it goes past the soft limiter it will hit the hard one.
the 6th gear governor is a soft limiter as well
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Good Info, thanx Greg ! :D
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Is it considered a soft limiter because it cuts fuel to two cylinders and if so if you edit that part out in the ecu and raise the rev limiter up a bit will that give you more power and top end?
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Is it considered a soft limiter because it cuts fuel to two cylinders and if so if you edit that part out in the ecu and raise the rev limiter up a bit will that give you more power and top end?
Only will give you more power if your bike is still making power above the current redline.
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When I dyno tuned my bike I was making power up to redline...........
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Jack it up a few hunderd rpm and try it out. As long as it is still increasing, it should give you benefit.
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already did.......!!
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Petrik.............Was there ever or is a hook up for the DL32 Inovate for data logging?
Thanks in advance................
By the way Took bike to the track after being flashed with boostfuel.........1st pass 1.90 50' spun 8.71 et @ 172mph with my plenum blowing of about the 1000' mark....
I couldnt get the plenum back on correct cause I got 7 stitches in my middle finger 3 days ago from a frickin head gasket slice...OUCH
Looking for ideas on data logging.... :thumb:
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Petrik.............Was there ever or is a hook up for the DL32 Inovate for data logging?
Thanks in advance................
By the way Took bike to the track after being flashed with boostfuel.........1st pass 1.90 50' spun 8.71 et @ 172mph with my plenum blowing of about the 1000' mark....
I couldnt get the plenum back on correct cause I got 7 stitches in my middle finger 3 days ago from a frickin head gasket slice...OUCH
Looking for ideas on data logging.... :thumb:
What do you want to log. If you have a dl32 and LC1, just tap into the TPS, RPM, MAP and whatever else you want to log. Maybe Duty cycle of injectors, intake temp, wheel speed sensors to determine wheel slip, etc.
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Nice time and mph for a botcged run with ecu only :)
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Anyone has a possiblitity to test this (flashing busa firmware into bking ecu and setting busa ecu to be compatible with bking gauge cluster) ?
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gen2/bking_gauge_emulation.jpg)
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Can anyone explain about the soft limiters? Thanks.
Soft limits are the poor guy at the blackjack table betting dollars when everybody else is betting 20's?? :hys: :hys: :hys:
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Anyone has a possiblitity to test this (flashing busa firmware into bking ecu and setting busa ecu to be compatible with bking gauge cluster) ?
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gen2/bking_gauge_emulation.jpg)
Very nice on the bking info! Was looking into a bking for another bike while im working on the turbo busa or when i want to hit the canyons!
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Can anyone explain about the soft limiters? Thanks.
Soft limits are the poor guy at the blackjack table betting dollars when everybody else is betting 20's?? :hys: :hys: :hys:
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Ok Walter........behave.............have you firmed the dates coming out to Vegas?
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:D I'm heading to Dallas this weekend and was trying to put in a Phx., Vegas loop but am also trying to take the bike to the finals in Nov. so will have to plan for mid Nov. early Dec. That will give more guys time to get there shiit together, but soon.
Walt
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Ok Walter see you soon and ride safe............
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Anyone has a possiblitity to test this (flashing busa firmware into bking ecu and setting busa ecu to be compatible with bking gauge cluster) ?
(http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/public/gen2/bking_gauge_emulation.jpg)
I've emailed Pitstop Pete, pretty sure he had ready access to one. Also trying to talk another guy into letting me at his BKing's ECU. He's acting like a virgin....! (I wasn't drooling).
Camel
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Been slow the past week or so, ill offer Gen II flasher at 10% off with free shipping through sunday evening, $180 TYD :thumb:
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We are working with Boerd (a fellla from Germany) on Bking. Looks promising, chould have something avail in a few weeks. The engine instrument data works already...
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Petrik again excellent input Sir and also Boerd :thumb:............... will have a B-King in the next week to play a little more ................ would probably help if a few of the B-King fellas would let one play with their baby's heart. :wink:
I've even promised to be gentle :twisted:
Spent so much time with my head buried in a laptop lately that my dog doesn't bite me anymore now he bytes me :?
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Hey Petrik, any plans in the future to create software for other (all) bikes ? So this (ecu hacking) will be the way of the future for all makes and models ??
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zx14 would be a very nice start!
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No, I only have GSX1300 in in the focus.
In addition to GSX1300R the GSX1300BK seems to share so much in common that is likely that we can run the busa software inside Bking ecu. This is why started to look nto BK. Boerd who is doing the bking version in practise is highly competent and has a personal interest with Bking so thats why we are seeing some progress with Bking. In a community based initiative like what we have here its always driven by personal interest, individual competence and commitment to put some hours where the mouth is. So this is not really driven by a market need, this is driven by an online community that is contributing to the work.
Ridgeracer is working on a more commercial software for all bikes. I am too looking forward to to get that up and running for dyno shop use over here.
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Hey Smithabusa, i had my ecu flashed.. i think of one of your programs with brocks exhaust and aftermarket air filter.. i thought it would clear up my hesitation off the line, which it did but it seen like i lost power. i dont have that snap.. any insight
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Hey Smithabusa, i had my ecu flashed.. i think of one of your programs with brocks exhaust and aftermarket air filter.. i thought it would clear up my hesitation off the line, which it did but it seen like i lost power. i dont have that snap.. any insight
Just like the Power Commander maps, there's no generic "map" for your bike with your mods. This doesn't remove the need to tune the bikes, just how and with what.
W
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Yep what walter said, sorta hard to tell anything without dyno verified numbers etc
Get it tuned is the only real way
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Questions
The stock Map sensor i know for a fact will not trip a FI light at 30 PSI so does it read that high or go into a safty mode?
I would like to use the boost refrence with a 1.1 reg and push up tp 30 psi any updates on using the G.M. 3 bar instead of the stock map sensor?
My set up is basicly this Bazzaz box,SB6, Ams 1000 then ecu editor when finally tuned. My first idea of this all was going to have 2 maps with the bazzaz and run a FMU but since then things have come along way. So What i wpuld like to see happen is keep everything i have now throw larger injectors in and tune from there. Thoughts?
Im going to be hooking a a gm 3 bar for the SB6 for a boost retard set up at higher levels can i hook both the sb6 and the ECU to one 3 bar map sensor? to make it easyer
WHats the highest anyone has pushed on boost for the ecu editor?
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Gm 3 bar works just fine, stock sensor won't read anywhere near that
I can make you an adapter harness rob :)
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2 guys have made 330-350 hp using boost fuel now
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Robert i sent you a pm Give me a call............Drew :thumb:
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2 guys have made 330-350 hp using boost fuel now
FMU or 1;1 Regulator?
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both were fmu's so far
eddie has a 1:1 now but hasn't been back to the dyno
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I am using a FMU with no problem we made 330hp around 10lbs of boost could of went higher but thats good for me :thumb:
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bump
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Got a chance to do some testing this evening with petriks ECU boost control :)
I had a choice to either drag the bike out to the barn where my tools and air compressor are, or rig up an air tank with a regulator on it to be the supply source. I basically have an air supply feeding a 1/8 npt air solenoid that is controlled by your software petrik, then on the output of the solenoid i am feeding the top side of the wastegate, gm 3 bar map sensor, and a mechanical boost gauge for me to watch. Engine is off, and just monitoring boost pressure on the top of the gate. I have a small air leak somewhere, but a leak of some sort is needed so that the wastegate can relieve itself, i think with the adjustable exhaust leak i have on the solenoid you can tune how quickly the boost bleeds back off when you downshift to a lower gear, making it leak off quicker will make the solenoid have to run more continous to maintain pressure.
Anyhow here are 2 videos, 1st with lower pressure, 2nd with higher pressures, there is some overshoot, but its hard to say how actual behavior on the road would be as I would be just using the manifold for air source vs 30 psi coming from an air tank, it would have longer to build up and probably overshoot less.
Anyhow, man for a first crack this seems to work pretty darn good!
Video 1
www.boostbysmith.com/Videos/ecuboost.wmv
Video 2
www.boostbysmith.com/Videos/ecuboost2.wmv
Thanks for all you do sir, the busa ecu flashing community wouldn't exist without you.
Greg
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/MonFeb08200927AmericaNew_York2010.jpg)
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Cool stuff, can't wait to you dyno again and get some street miles on it!