SuzukiHayabusa.org
TECHNICAL => LITER BIKES => Topic started by: MslPilot on July 10, 2011, 09:39:52 PM
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Just outa curiosity, since I bought my Busa(24 hours ago) I have had tons of guys riding basiclly stock R1's CBR1000rr's, and Gixxer 1k's telling me that their bikes would blow my 07 Busa away. All I can really do is laugh because I had an 04 Gixxer 1k, that was very quick. I'm talkin all i could really do to make it faster was boost it or spray it.....and that bike still didn't stand a chance against a Busa....roll on or hole shot. So I guess I wanna know what makes these dip stick's think that they can magically destroy a busa. Now granted, if you throw a ton of money at a litre bike you can make it faster......than a stock or lightly modified busa.....but then what about a highly modded Busa??? I just don't get it I guess..... Alll I can tell these guys is google the numbers they speak for themselves. Oh well, I am much more comfortablt on the Busa and I can tell it's way quicker. I havent really ventured too much into the throttle....but where i have gone so far I have been severly WOW'd!! :tu:
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It's a lot rider and mods. I think most basic mods slow you down unless really done right. I have an 02 Busa that was completely stock for 49,000 miles. I think I beat every Busa I ever raced with a pipe and power comander (mine stock). I still have the busa but with a turbo now. I also have an 07 GSXR1000, completley stock. I've never run a stock Busa but have spanked several 1st gen Busas with pipes and power commanders and a zx14. It's mostly rider but the GXSR is badder than most 1000's stock to stock.
I really don't think most of those bikes can beat you but look out for an 05 or newer GSXR1000.
I love it when a 1000 messes with my turbo, they have no clue why they can't hang at all. :hys:
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a good rider on a 1k against a decent rider on a busa will probably be close...not the bmw 1k is a whole different story
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I don't know how you guys think the Gen I Busa is all that fast.....it was when it came out up to about 6 years of being king but once the 05 and newer GSXRs came out it was a different story. From my experience, with good but not pro riders, the GSXR1000s would beat the Busa from a dig and more obviously from a roll. Now the 07/08s IMHO were a bit lazy in the mid but still has enough HP to win against the Gen Is. Now the other manfacturers were hit or miss on beating a Busa but most would on a roll.
I have owned 2 Gen Is and still prefer them over most litres but the facts are the facts. Power to Weight ratio dominates on the litres. The BMW is ridiculous in that dept but too much power is hard to use unless the bike it setup properly......
Even the Gen 2 has it tough with the litres. Still best for 1/4 mile IMHO but not everyone primarily race from a dig.
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Yeah true, it all has to be done correctly. My GSXR1k was set up and tuned with the PC3 after i had the pipes and everything else put on. I just don't get it, the Busa pulls like crazy at a roll on. I dunno, i guess i'll let you know what happens when my buddies shut their mouths and bring their bikes out. So far it's been just a bunch of talk but when invited to ride they come up with some BS why they can't come. :td:
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Busa riders typically are from their mid mid 30s and older plus you will find most of us are 200lbs + so when you race a litre bike with a sub 150lb guy on it, your going to be in big trouble. If your as small then you should be close and then it will come down to rider skills.....even on roll-ons I have seen guys suck from shifting to high (which is common) to shifting like an old lady....
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Thats why i stripped 60lb out if mine and added 80 hp with a 1507,bring it
On litre bikes,bmw,s included. :D
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Yea that doesn't hurt.... :hys:
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Thats why i stripped 60lb out if mine and added 80 hp with a 1507,bring it
On litre bikes,bmw,s included. :D
How the hell did you get 60lbs off your bike?!
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I believe it. I got 52lbs so far and it still looks stock and not raped. Even down to the stock exhaust (sort of LOL). Not hard really just takes money once you get past the easy stuff.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/Hayaboosta/Hayabusa%20Exhaust/tn_DSC04342.jpg)
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How the hell did you get 60lbs off your bike?!
X20000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Pilot- A local shop told my buddies {one with a 06 1k and the other with a 07 busa} that on his dyno they both the 1k and gen 1 busas put down identical numbers in stock form.
As far as who would win between you and them...... it really will come down to rider,weight and to be honest how both bikes actually run. You can go online and see gen 1's trapping low 130's all the way up to mid 140's. Every bike is different!! All you can do is run them and find out!!
I will tell you this!! We weighed our bikes at the track. The 1k guy is 160lbs and with 1/2 a tank of gas came in at 585lbs. Im 225lbs and with 1/2 tank of gas in my 03 busa I was 750lbs. My other buddy is 260lbs and came in at 785lbs on his 07 busa.
The 1k stretched {62'},drag radial,non- o-ring chain,slip-on,16/44 and strapped has run a best of 9.72@143 {145whp}
The 07 busa stretched {64'} drag radial,baffled dumps,airbox mod,lowered,strapped,16/42 and mapped pc5....9.96@138 {156whp}
My 03 busa {56'} hmf big bird,pc3r not tuned,16/42,air box mod,lowered and strapped.....9.99@142 {163whp}
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Most the liter bike boys read mag's and think they can ride.
It's really a rider race. It also seems to me you see at least 3 bone stock busa's to each thoughtfully mod liter bike.
If you really want to have fun with them regear the busa, and make'em cry.
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If you really want to have fun with them regear the busa, and make'em cry.
HELL YEAH!!
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Yeah, that's a thought. i had my 04 1k geared super low. very fun to mess around with.
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Adding a real data point to the virtual discussion.
Last Wednesday, my buddy and I lined up his 2008 GSXR1000 against my 2006 Hayabusa at Sacramento Raceway. His Gixxer is bone stock down to the quiet exhaust, my Busa has intake to exhaust swap and no base gasket, hogged out stock cans, and geared for Bonneville at 18/39).
Gixxer ran 10.8@146 against my Busa's 10.0@144mph. My buddy is not an experienced drag racer (on bikes) but I would call him an above average rider. I'm experienced.
It was super cool to see him coming up in my mirror. The little Gixxer is a monster on the top end and even on my Busa, I wouldn't challenge it stoplight to stoplight. Give me anything longer than a stoplight though and the Gixxer would never be a problem. Re-gear the Busa (mine is geared for top speed desert racing) and with any reasonable distance to run, it'd just never be a problem.
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Adding a real data point to the virtual discussion.
Last Wednesday, my buddy and I lined up his 2008 GSXR1000 against my 2006 Hayabusa at Sacramento Raceway. His Gixxer is bone stock down to the quiet exhaust, my Busa has intake to exhaust swap and no base gasket, hogged out stock cans, and geared for Bonneville at 18/39).
Gixxer ran 10.8@146 against my Busa's 10.0@144mph. My buddy is not an experienced drag racer (on bikes) but I would call him an above average rider. I'm experienced.
It was super cool to see him coming up in my mirror. The little Gixxer is a monster on the top end and even on my Busa, I wouldn't challenge it stoplight to stoplight. Give me anything longer than a stoplight though and the Gixxer would never be a problem. Re-gear the Busa (mine is geared for top speed desert racing) and with any reasonable distance to run, it'd just never be a problem.
With a 10.8 @ 146 your buddy is definately not an experienced drag racer. This proves the "riders race" theory. That bike should have been in the 9's.
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the MPH numbers support this too. MPH being an indicator of HP, and the literbike being an easy 100-150lbs lighter than the Busa...Ive ridden both and above 140ish, the Busa will walk away with it. So it boils down to what you want (i'm a top speed guy so the Busa is it for me). I wouldnt race a GSXR1000 at a stoplight. R1 - I'll run em' anyday. Smoked one twice at the same race against an experienced drag racer.
Anybody race a new CBR1000 yet?
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If youre talking basically stock bikes, Id take any 1000 over a busa. Its gonna come down to rider, period. Most people cant ride a lick. Who ever can ride better will win if basically stock.
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Just outa curiosity, since I bought my Busa(24 hours ago) I have had tons of guys riding basiclly stock R1's CBR1000rr's, and Gixxer 1k's telling me that their bikes would blow my 07 Busa away.
Tell them to bring em on :
Money talks and bull shit walks , then listen to their excuses not too racing.
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Horsepower to weight...it's what it is all about. The drag strip is a totally different story.. a great rider will almost always out run a bad rider no matter what he is on.
Even older 1000's will outrun the older busas. I was actually able to find a guy with a "stock" busa that was really stock. That is hard to do.LOL.. I had just bought an 04 zx10 and he said he had wanted to do some roll ons on the expressway with a new 1000. I was about 80lbs heavier than him but my bike was 100lbs lighter than his. He had 8000 miles on his 02 busa and I had 200 miles on my 04 zx10. We rolled from every gear all the way to redline in 6th each pull and I slowly pulled him every time. He never gained anything back during any of the pulls. I know most people think the busa will come storming back in the higher gears but that's just not the case. The one from 2nd to sixth I put 15 to 20 bikes on him. My bike was dynoed a couple of days before and made 147 just like every zx10 I ever saw dynoed. His busa being truly stock was just like all of the gen 1s and probably made 152 to 153 stock. We were closed on weight counting my body weight and his but I was still just enough lighter as a total package.
LOL...The newer 1000s is a whole different story.... and for the guy that said he could outrun the BMW with his busa I have to say LOL... Stock for stock no way and equally piped and power commandered no way....... I will give him that he may do it at the track if he is a better rider but in a roll it would never happen.
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See, this is the bullshit I'm talking about. :td: This isn't fuckin NASCAR here, you hardly see ANY bike stock. But i find it hard to believe you pulled him by 15-20 bike lengths( :hys:) and if you did he's and idiot. I have had 4 1000cc bikes and still ride one. The point here is so many people talk shit and honestly have no idea what the fuck theyre talkin about. Anyone in the Seattle area riding a big bad 600 or 1000 wanna prove to me they can beat me through the twisties even on my Busa, hell i'd love to see it happen. Fact is it does come down to rider skill, so just like the man said....put up or shut up.
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LOL...As always....NO ONE has to believe anything...LOL. Everyoone is a better liar than the last guy...So you win..LOL
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But then after a couple of really small modifications I was able to put 10 to 15 bikes per gear on that old "stock" busa...LOL
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp8%3C4%3Enu%3D323%3A%3E9%3C%3B%3E9%3A%3B%3EWSNRCG%3D323%3A56%3A8%3C2577nu0mrj)
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Everyones bike is sooooooooooooo Fast.
Bet none of ya can out run this bike !
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But then after a couple of really small modifications I was able to put 10 to 15 bikes per gear on that old "stock" busa...LOL
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp8%3C4%3Enu%3D323%3A%3E9%3C%3B%3E9%3A%3B%3EWSNRCG%3D323%3A56%3A8%3C2577nu0mrj)
uh, yeah if you had mentioned you were on a turbo bike.......i would say that's believeable.
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lots of butt hurt going on in this thread
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:hys: nah
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LOL... The total "pre turbo" was 15 bikes....... After turbo was 15 bikes per gear...so hmmmmmmmm,, it adds up quick..LOL..... Don't hate,,, the gen 1 busas are just slow :lol:
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rename this site to haybusabutthurt.org
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Im new too bikes but I have noticed that there seems to be a rivalry between the GSXR1000 guys and the HAYABUSA guys. Its kinda funny seeings how it really is comparing apples to oranges.
Isnt a GSXR1000 considered a superbike and a BUSA considered a sport touring?
And there is what......................over 100lbs weight difference between the 2 bikes themselves?
Its kinda like comparing a corvette to a gto.......in reality. I mean I could see if the BUSA was making 15-20whp more stock to stock but from what I have seen stock 1000's make the same as stock gen 1's. Im not taking anything away from the 1000's but what is trying to be proven?
My favorite thing to hear is "stock motor"..... I love hearing that!!
I think the gsxr 1000 is a cool bike!! I personally think its uncomfortable to ride but I didnt buy one because it looks like a 600. Same everything...doesnt stand out. I dont like that where the gauges are its not all finished like a busa. Does plastic ready weigh that much they couldnt have made it clean.
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I definatly have to agree. Sold mine because it was uncomfortable. The Busa looks better for sure! :tu:
I don't care either way, I have just noticed a ton of shit talkers around where I am that barely know anything about bikes much less how to ride telling me their 600 or 1000 would smoke me in the twisties hands down. and yes i got a taker on a CBR 1000rr and lets just say he's done tellin everyone Busa's are drag queens.....LMAO. These bikes are awesome and they are not just straight line bikes.
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I know some butt hurting is coming my way. But I think I would pull on a busa with simular boost like mine you know something 6-8, stock motor and some pump around 40-180mph.
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My 05 when it was new and i was less experienced. I lowered it, strapped it, and went -1 in the front. Ran a 9.80@144. was around 180 lbs suited at that time. Also set it up for Prostar 1000ss...Brocks Megaphone , Milled head, degree'd cams, short stacks, pc, -1/+2. bike ran 9.4's at 150-152 consistantly. With the bike set up like that it made 175rwhp. I ran a guy that had a 1397 busa, exhaust, two intake cams, and a few other mods. made 191rwhp on same dyno. everytime we raced....slow 1st gear thru my 6th ....I pulled him every time by a few bikes to 6-10 bikes. A first gen busa has its hands full against any 05 up gsxr 1000.
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My 05 when it was new and i was less experienced. I lowered it, strapped it, and went -1 in the front. Ran a 9.80@144. was around 180 lbs suited at that time.
Thats moving out!!
I would like to see what it would run if you had a 100lb weight vest one.
Also set it up for Prostar 1000ss...Brocks Megaphone , Milled head, degree'd cams, short stacks, pc, -1/+2. bike ran 9.4's at 150-152 consistantly. With the bike set up like that it made 175rwhp.
I got a local guy that has a 06 with a stock motor {never been into} that went 9.1@151 and it was 109 degrees outside in texas humidity. You have all those mods to run 9.4@150-152. Just shows that all bike and riders are different.
I ran a guy that had a 1397 busa, exhaust, two intake cams, and a few other mods. made 191rwhp on same dyno. everytime we raced....slow 1st gear thru my 6th ....I pulled him every time by a few bikes to 6-10 bikes. A first gen busa has its hands full against any 05 up gsxr 1000.
Sounds like a slaughter!!!
I have a good friend with a 06 GSXR 1000. His race weigh is 585lbs and the bike put down 157whp/77wtq. Mine at the time was 750lb and making 163whp/96wtq. At the track the 1000 ran 9.98@143 the same night I ran 9.99@142. But from a roll I would pull away from him.
There are too many variables with motorcycles to say one bike would have its handful againest another. Alot of it comes down to rider,weight,etc,etc!!!
Didnt schnitz just go a 6.90@203 on a Hayabusa? :bike:
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Oh jeez, i give up. lol
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I've been 9.59 @ 146.27mph on my 99' Busa and 9.74 @ 146.62mph on my 05' GSX-R 1000. Both stock wheel base, foot shifted, pump gas stock motors. Both -1 on front, lowered/strapped. The Busa at the time had a small tube Hindle, small airbox mod, BMC filter, and powercommander. The 1000 has a BMC filter, homemade switchable TRE, and slightly modified factory stock pipe with a fully functional exhaust vavle! I ride both of these bikes a lot on the street and know that my 1000 is stronger everywhere. When taken to the strip on the same day, the 1000 will usually trap .5 - 1.5 mph better.
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Thats why i stripped 60lb out if mine and added 80 hp with a 1507,bring it
On litre bikes,bmw,s included. :D
How the hell did you get 60lbs off your bike?!
my busa weighs about 460lbs with a light fuel load,i got my dads down to 443lbs as a 1299cc bike.you just keep spending on weight saving over the years instead of buying a new bike every few yrs and you have a very light very fast gen1 busa.
heres a list of a few weight saving things,price on application,lol
ti force exhaust,22lbs lighter
,alloy subframe 5.7lbs
speedcell battery 6.6lbs
kevlar tank 7.3lbs
carbon glass bodywork 5.5lbs
carbon airbox 2.2lbs
titanium rear spring 1.5lbs
carbon wheels approx 16lbs
ceramic braketech rotors 4.8lbs
bar ends 2lbs
rearsets dunno
rear footpeg hangers dunno
So thats a likely 75lbs right there.mine has heavier headers,magnesium rims,iron rotors etc.
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My 2000 Hayabusa Supebike (with OE aluminum subframe) scaled at an honest 475 pounds wet which was about 75 pounds lighter than it's original 550 pound wet weight. It remained street legal, with the license plate mounted to the back of the battery box, minimalist lighting (individual bare LED tail/stop/turn lamps, and a pair of miniscule driving lamps hose-clamped to the upper fork legs under the fairing.
I used a Muzzy 4-1 titanium exhaust system, Marvic Penta II magnesium racing wheels, Sharkskinz race bodywork, and removal of all of the stupid heavy stuff that comes with the Hayabusa, to include:
Solid steel bar ends
Tool kit
Tank prop rod
ALL that black plastic under the tail, right up to the battery box
Engine counterbalancer
Footpeg weights
B-pegs
Grab handle
PAIR system
Airbox interior (large box mod)
Flapper valve, link, servo, vacuum line, etc.
OE Frankenstein bolts
2 of four grab handle bolts
...and so on.
The only expensive part was the wheels (the exhaust system wasn't really that expensive)
In the end, it was only about 25 pounds heavier than a stock Gixxer 1000, and had more horsepower.
On the street, at track day pace, or at novice race pace, it gave up nothing to 1000 cc bikes. At an expert's race pace, the additional 2.9" of wheelbase, and even more so, the width of the engine, were significant issues. This ultimately drove me to replace it with the R1, which was instantly 3 seconds a lap faster, simply because the engine was so much narrower.
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yep,busas are a frustrating track bike,no matter
how light you make them ,their width and wheelbase
along with their steering geometry and weight bias
make them a fruitless exersize in pursuing
ultimate lap times.once their tipped over their
width,wheelbase,geometry determine how tight a line
they will hold,shedding weight just means you
can tip in faster and the tyres will hang on for a while
longer but unless you were already sliding,the mid corner
speed has already been predetermined by
its architecture.
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I jacked the back end up about 1.5" with shorter dog bones, used a taller 195/55 rear tire, slid the fork tubes up in the triple clamps about 1/2", and shortened the wheelbase by 5/8" by taking two links out of the chain, but ultimately, the engine width required me to take classic arcing 125-like lines, and did not give me any lattitude as far as changing lines mid-corner. It wasn't long before everybody figured that out, and the jig was up. It still scared the crap out of everyone, and 1000 cc bikes fell out of my draft on the front straight, but I really did need a different bike for racing, especially since I showed a little bit of promise, and Suzuki wasn't paying any contingency money for the Hayabusa, but Yamaha was paying $2,000 for each win. Having the R1 set up as a Supersport made it eligible to race in Open Supersport AND Open Superbike, making a theoretical $4,000 income a weekend just from Yamaha, if I was fortunate enough to have gotten on the top of the box twice a weekend (I wasn't THAT good, but you gotta set goals). :lol:
The other issue was that the Hayabusa could easily shred a $500 pair of race tires in one race, but the same tires would last an entire day on the R1.
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...BUT...
For the other 99.9% of all riding situations, the Hayabusa just rocks. My wife and I have missed that bike every day since I sold it.
An important thing to remember, a lesson that all of us learn the first time we ever ride on the track, is that the fastest guy on the street is NOT the fastest rider OR the fastest bike- it's just the guy willing to take the most chances.
For all practical purposes, the Hayabusa has more lean angle available than reasonable people use in reasonable situations, so it's dimensions are not an impediment. And with it's wide-ratio transmission and excess of instantly-accessible torque, it doesn't require the furious down-shifting of a liter bike, especially a short-stroke liter bike and/or one with an OEM exhaust header containing an exhaust flapper valve (they generally cause a huge hole right in the middle of the torque curve). In spontaneous situations, the Hayabusa is always going to have an advantage.
it's also good to consider that unless you live IN the twisty bits, a Supersport really tends to wear you out on the way there and back, but the Hayabusa is very comfortable over the road. Two-up is another place that the Hayabusa shines. Two people on a 55" wheelbase make it hard to keep the front wheel on the ground under 150 mph, but the additional 3" or so of the Hayabusa allows you to get the front end down by about 120 mph or so.
The longer wheelbase of the Hayabusa also makes it easier and quicker to launch from a standing start than a 55" Supersport. And in straight-line acceleration, the start is everything.
Once you get much above about 150 mph, the aerodynamics of the Hayabusa make it the clear choice over any other bike. It requires an exponentially larger amount of horsepower to push a less aerodynamic shape through the air. I suspect that's why the 100 pound lighter and 15 horsepower stronger S1000RR has not established a history of putting down higher top speeds than unrestricted (or de-restricted) Hayabusa motorcycles.
So where does a 1000 have an advantage? The brief moment between the time the front tire touches the ground and when the aerodynamics of the Hayabusa take over. That's it. And even then, it's only true if the 1000 cc rider has had time to downshift three or four times first.
I'd rather have a Hayabusa with the suspension properly set up and a modicum of track experience, than a twin-turbo ZX-10 any day.
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Absolutely lightening up a Busa is a huge deal. Try running around a tight track with one weighing in at 550lbs full of liquids for 20 minutes in 90'+ weather......you'll appreciate the 600cc weights in comparison but trimming 50-75lbs off the Busa certainly makes it a lot easier to be fast and consistent on the Bus. The other caveat is less weight to tax the frame of the mid 90s technology to not flex as much. Now that I run full Ohlins full suspension on my Busa and dropped nearly 60lbs on the bike and over 50lbs myself the bike is so much more solid under rough conditions like the track we have here has....rough conditions.
If I lose the next 30lbs by January, the bike will only be limited by thickness of the bike.....big deal....cause I haven't been able to scrape the fairings that much yet and lean angle isn't necessary for a true test of corner speed....I can go as fast as most litres in some of these corners and be a heck of lot less leaned over than them.....it's all in traction and weight transfer....when I get faster then the lean angle will have to change to suit the speed but I am not quite there yet.
One last thing. Other than the usual weight loss from wheels, etc. removing the counter balancer and/or lightening a crankshaft as well as degreeing cams for more top end RPM power........the Busa will be able to accelerate out of corners faster without roasting even the most stickiest of slicks on just the littliest of wrist turn.....you will also notice turn in to be more controllable as well. The fun thing is that the Busa still has tons of TQ compared to the litres.....so instant acceleration will still be there.....Yay!
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Removing the engine counter-balancer also makes the bike flip from side to side significantly faster, and makes downshifts upset the chassis much less. I'd can't think of an application where I'd leave the counter-balancer in the engine. It's a free, easy, and very noticeable upgrade.
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I have owned a 2006 Busa and now a 2007 GSXR 1000. After the first ride on the 1K, I came home and hit the computer to find out how much HP it made because it felt faster than my Busa. The K7-K8 1K make more HP and at least 100lbs lighter than a Gen1 Busa. Both of mine with Brock pipes, extended, lowered, properly geared, clutch work, and MR12 ran good. However, the 1K is faster and better ET. I weigh in at 220lbs and my 1K is trapping in the 150s on motor. The 1K does not 60ft as good as my Busa and is harder to launch IMHO. These K7-K8 1Ks need a ton of gear for big guys. It does out do the Busa in the 330, 1/8th, etc.... My 1k actually traps higher in the 1/8th than my Busa did on a small shot of N2O. I will never buy another Gen 1 Busa after owning this bike and I bought my Busa brand new! I will try a Gen 2 for my next build though! Oh yeah, no more second gear issues with my 1K like on the Busa. I have no issues at the track against a Gen 1 or ZX 14. Then again, I beat the ZX14s with my Gen 1, lol. Last, with Nitrous, these 1K will 60 ft insane along with ET. Nothing like shifting at nearly 14K with a sidewinder, Nitrous, and 1000 or more cc motor!
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Yes, it is true, if you spend thousands of dollars butchering a couple of perfectly good motorcycles, to eliminate 99% of their abilities in the blind pursuit of slightly better 1/4 mile ETs, then anything's possible.
Most of us have no use for something that is geared like a tractor but has a close-ratio transmission, corners to the left like a sinking oil tanker, corners to the right like the same oil tanker running aground, can't go over a speed bump at all, runs on nitrous oxide and $20+ a gallon gas that you can't leave in the tank overnight, and has an unmuffled megaphone exhaust.
...especially when it's being used for general transportation on public roads 6 days a week, and hobby-level handicap ET racing on Sunday morning... :roll:
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Comparing these bikes is funny. Depends on rider skill and how well or type of mods have been performed on either bikes.
Mine was only putting out 160hp compared to a few litres here putting out around the same or a bit more. Sure they are lighter but if they don't gear the bikes appropriately and is in the sweet spot of the powerband, I really didn't have any issues beating or staying ahead on a small track where the top speed is lucky to be a little over 110mph on the longest part. Now on a faster track, if I wasn't on my game in corners I just can't keep up enough on some of the really long straights so power to weight will show. Not everyone "Super" mods their bikes but if the Busa owner chose tasteful and useful mods such as compression and cams, the Busa making 185hp will eff up any bolt-on litre.....except now the S1000R which is a bike in it's own class IMHO.
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The rider is the single most important component, but I'm assuming that all of these comparisons are, as a given, assuming comparable riders.
Yes, there are 1000cc bikes that make more horsepower at their peak, but fall off that peak, even just a little bit, and the Hayabusa is going to have an advantage.
I've never done any track time using the Hayabusa or a 1000cc bike on a shorter track.
On a larger track, I can speak from experience, that if you've got a front straightaway of 3/4 mile like I did, the aerodynamics of the Hayabusa is going to cause any normal 1000cc bike to fall out of it's draft. It is possible that the S1000RR may be able to get such a jump on the Hayabusa in the mid-range that the Hayabusa has trouble catching up by the end of the straight, but the top speed of a comparable Hayabusa, or even one within about 15 horsepower of the BMW, is going to be faster.
I'm not saying that the Hayabusa is the best choice, or even a good choice as a road-racing bike- it's not. I'm just saying, that unless you have a) a road racing track, and b) expert-licensed road racers, the Hayabusa is going to have an advantage everywhere, to include pretty much all street scenarios, which is where 99% of Hayabusa and 1000cc riders are going to meet. It makes no point to live in fantasy-land by saying "Yeah, well, Valentino Rossi on a BMW S1000RR could beat Casey Stoner on a Hayabusa at Mugello"- so flipping what. You're not Valentino Rossi, the other guy is not Casey Stoner, and the one-mile stretch of highway fronting In And Out Burger is not Mugello. BIG difference.
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like it was mentioned before,on the road it comes
down to the rider and the risks they are prepared to
take.i rode my 1507 busa with a guy on a dead stock
blackbird and a 08gixxer1000.my golden rule is slow in
fast out of corners on the road,loose gravel,blind corners
etc,no way would you see me running hot into a blind corner
on my knee on the street.these boys were backing it into the
corners and coming out the other side and just walking away.i could
run over them on the straights if needed but i didnt envy
the corner speed of a braver road rider.its all nice to say a litre bike
can smoke a busa but its very easy to drop alot of weight
off a busa and even easier to give it a stack more torque
and hp and have it all look undetectable.it then just comes down to comfort
and which your more comfortable steering over
bumpy country roads.in my case ive made mine a bit
too intense and want to try a naked bike for a change.
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The rider is the single most important component, but I'm assuming that all of these comparisons are, as a given, assuming comparable riders.
Yes, there are 1000cc bikes that make more horsepower at their peak, but fall off that peak, even just a little bit, and the Hayabusa is going to have an advantage.
I've never done any track time using the Hayabusa or a 1000cc bike on a shorter track.
On a larger track, I can speak from experience, that if you've got a front straightaway of 3/4 mile like I did, the aerodynamics of the Hayabusa is going to cause any normal 1000cc bike to fall out of it's draft. It is possible that the S1000RR may be able to get such a jump on the Hayabusa in the mid-range that the Hayabusa has trouble catching up by the end of the straight, but the top speed of a comparable Hayabusa, or even one within about 15 horsepower of the BMW, is going to be faster.
I'm not saying that the Hayabusa is the best choice, or even a good choice as a road-racing bike- it's not. I'm just saying, that unless you have a) a road racing track, and b) expert-licensed road racers, the Hayabusa is going to have an advantage everywhere, to include pretty much all street scenarios, which is where 99% of Hayabusa and 1000cc riders are going to meet. It makes no point to live in fantasy-land by saying "Yeah, well, Valentino Rossi on a BMW S1000RR could beat Casey Stoner on a Hayabusa at Mugello"- so flipping what. You're not Valentino Rossi, the other guy is not Casey Stoner, and the one-mile stretch of highway fronting In And Out Burger is not Mugello. BIG difference.
I like your posts Kirk. Very entertaining and informative.
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I like yours too. You seem to be pretty much on the money, and appear to speak from a position of experience. You appear to have put a lot of thought into what you do, without being limited by the general population's paradigm of how they perceive the Hayabusa.
The only thing that confuses me about your posts is that you aren't having problems with the width of the engine, but me and the others who have ridden the Hayabusa at race pace do have problems with it. It makes me think of a real tall, lanky guy I used to know who used to ride on the track with, and where most of us hang off the bike to increase our ground clearance, he was built like a spider and was just about crawling UNDER the bike in corners. I don't recall him actually getting an elbow down, but his body position was such that he would have had no problem getting an elbow or possibly even his shoulder down, before touching down any hard parts on the bike. So I'm kind of wondering if you're shaped like spider-man, or what.
For comparison, this is me riding the Hayabusa Superbike at race pace, knee down on the race track. Note the bulge in the fairing around the clutch housing is ground down a little:
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...and here is a shot of me on the R1, knee down in the same corner, grinding down absolutely nothing:
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That's because I may not be as good as you to be honest. I go pretty fast but I like I said before, lean angle isn't always an indicator of how fast you are for the average guy but at the same time most people have the perception that you have to have a knee down or even an elbow down to be fast....that's not entirely true. I've run with a few guys who are so leaned over you'd think they had the track record but here I am right behind them and they are not pulling away. Again the faster you become the lean angle needed will have to be utilized as there is no way around that unless you like going off the track at every corner :hys: .....
Most of my experience was on the street before doing track days. Come this next year I am actually going to try my take at racing but on a 600cc bike. Corner speed is so incredible on 600s.....
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The other issue was that the Hayabusa could easily shred a $500 pair of race tires in one race, but the same tires would last an entire day on the R1.
And that the truth!!!! Pain in my wallet....and I don't do that many track days......Street tires hold up better but damn if they suck after a few hard laps.....slip sliding.....all goooey and worthless until you rest for 15 minutes in the shade.....
For the money the Pirelli Superbike Pros are the best for fast track days and for average fast race day riders. They were designed for track day riders in the first place. They last a long effing time and only run $365 shipped......on a litre bike I have seen them last about 3 good track days in about 60' to 85' days.
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Come this next year I am actually going to try my take at racing but on a 600cc bike. Corner speed is so incredible on 600s.....
You should see the 125s. Watching 125s passing the 650s look about as safe as throwing steel lawn darts in a crowded shopping mall. :shock:
What kind of 600? I've always admired the Triumph Daytona 675. :tu:
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The other issue was that the Hayabusa could easily shred a $500 pair of race tires in one race, but the same tires would last an entire day on the R1.
And that the truth!!!! Pain in my wallet....and I don't do that many track days......Street tires hold up better but damn if they suck after a few hard laps.....slip sliding.....all goooey and worthless until you rest for 15 minutes in the shade.....
For the money the Pirelli Superbike Pros are the best for fast track days and for average fast race day riders. They were designed for track day riders in the first place. They last a long effing time and only run $365 shipped......on a litre bike I have seen them last about 3 good track days in about 60' to 85' days.
I have no experience with them, but I am a Pirelli rider. Those red-stripe slicks look like a good bet for an endurance bike if you're trying to get away without changing the front tire, or to minimize rear tire changes if you have an 8-gallon gas tank. :lol:
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Come this next year I am actually going to try my take at racing but on a 600cc bike. Corner speed is so incredible on 600s.....
You should see the 125s. Watching 125s passing the 650s look about as safe as throwing steel lawn darts in a crowded shopping mall. :shock:
What kind of 600? I've always admired the Triumph Daytona 675. :tu:
Well I picked up 2008 Ninja 250 to also race in a 250 class that may or may not happen but there is the Vintage class that allows the 250 Ninja in it......those are a hoot too but boring on the straights........if you have decent DOT tires on the 250 Ninja I have seen some killer corner speeds from a few good riders.....
A Kawasaki 636 by the way
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The 675 has top notch parts and is truly the best in the 600 class IMHO. I just don't trust Triumph reliability as well as repair cost associated with some European machinery......
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An '05-06 636 is fine for a novice 600 bike. A little extra engine displacement, and they should crash well, with the exhaust up under the tail.
I think it's a smart move to put the 250 Supersports on track at the same time as the vintage classes. Those guys tend to be real gentlemen (read: act like grown-ups) when they race.
The EX250 does have a lot less horsepower than a 125, the EX250 chassis is pretty crude as compared to a 125, and the EX250 weighs over twice as much as a 125, resulting in about a 40 mph greater top speed and phenomenally higher cornering speed for the slick-shod 125. 125GP and 250 Supersport would be a poor match.
Your corner speed would generally be higher than the vintage bikes, and some of them may be passing you on the straights, but your biggest challenge is to make sure to watch out for the 160s. A single race-prepped CB-160 is capable of about 75 mph all by itself, with a normal-sized rider in a full race tuck. Two or more drafting can reach speeds of 85 mph. As a race official, I have verified this multiple times by radar. I'm guessing that a Supersport-prepped EX250 is probably capable of just a hair over 100 mph, depending on rider size and how good your tuck is. Ass-packing 160s has never been a good idea, so just keep your eyes open, in case one of them comes out of a draft to attempt a pass and moves directly into your line.
The Bridgestone DOT-approved BT003RS radial tires for the EX250 work pretty well, with a 140 on the rear, which shouldn't slow down the handling or acceleration too much:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z193/Chester1469/Misc/DSC00139.jpg)
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The 675 has top notch parts and is truly the best in the 600 class IMHO. I just don't trust Triumph reliability as well as repair cost associated with some European machinery......
I see what you're saying, but I would trust it with a stock engine (just a full-race Arrow titanium exhaust system and a Power Commander, with pump gas), especially if I was the only one riding it (not using it for endurance races with other riders). A stock, piped 675 is going to produce more horsepower than a full-on Supersport-prepped Japanese 600 on race gas, the engine is going to be narrower (allowing higher mid-corner speeds), and they should crash pretty well with the exhaust up under the tail. It's also going to have LOADS more torque than any 600. The 675 would be my first choice for a 600 race bike.
I've lost count of how many times the Daytona 675 has slayed every other 600 in magazine 600 Supersport shoot-out testing.
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160 racing is cool:
http://www.youtube.com/v/zpc7GkgBDrE?version=3&hl=en_US
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125s are cool too.
11 year old Peter Lenz's first ride on a 125 (a 15 year old bike with a torched cylinder), showing us why 125s are only a foot and a half wide. Peter's death was a great loss to the sport- that kid would have been the next Valentino Rossi:
http://www.youtube.com/v/jnm5VeZIl_8?version=3&hl=en_US
Listen to his maturity as a racer:
http://www.youtube.com/v/RZiH8UT6hHA?version=3&hl=en_US
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250 Supersport (EX250 "Ninja" class):
http://www.youtube.com/v/2WOYlZai51M?version=3&hl=en_US
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sweet 250r clip
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stk for stk a 05-08 1000 is faster than a busa with a lite rider
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Why are the limitations of the busa vs the gsxr 1000 when it comes to going fast?
I have been told by many that a 1k even built is a ticking time bomb due to all the material and support that SUZUKI removed from the case,block etc to reduce weight.
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Why are the limitations of the busa vs the gsxr 1000 when it comes to going fast?
I have been told by many that a 1k even built is a ticking time bomb due to all the material and support that SUZUKI removed from the case,block etc to reduce weight.
You were told wrong.
They are both EXTREMELY reliable engines. It is not uncommon for racers to enter Gixxer 1000s in 4-hour endurance races, and recruit additional riders at the track, who will simply pitch in for tire expenses (and to pay for their own crash repairs). These bikes will do a bunch of regular races all year, do several 4-hour endurance races, with the engine spending around 12 hours at or near red line each season, and after several seasons, they are still as fast as they were when they were new. An engine failure would be EXTREMELY unusual. They are about as reliable as an anvil.
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stk for stk a 05-08 1000 is faster than a busa with a lite rider
Lol. :lol:
Under what conditions are you claiming this?
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You were told wrong.
They are both EXTREMELY reliable engines. It is not uncommon for racers to enter Gixxer 1000s in 4-hour endurance races, and recruit additional riders at the track, who will simply pitch in for tire expenses (and to pay for their own crash repairs). These bikes will do a bunch of regular races all year, do several 4-hour endurance races, with the engine spending around 12 hours at or near red line each season, and after several seasons, they are still as fast as they were when they were new. An engine failure would be EXTREMELY unusual. They are about as reliable as an anvil.
I was kinda refering to fast 1k's. Like 8 sec plus bikes. PHRASED MY STATEMENT WRONG
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I just re-read this thread, and I gotta admit, I got pretty choked up about the death of Peter Lenz.
We used to watch him when he was little, racing pocket bikes in the little race course we set up for them in the pits at our races. This was before he moved on to go-kart tracks on the NSR50(R?). He was always faster than everyone else. Not just a little faster, he just simply rode away from everyone else, like he was completely unaware that he was a little kid racing against other little kids. He had a racing maturity that always exceeded his years. If someone else got a hole-shot on him, he would sit back and study them, plotting a passing solution that he would then execute with surgical precision. That kid was really something.
Here he is racing his bone stock 2004 NSR50(R?) in 2006, at age 9, in both the stock and modified 50 classes at a go-kart track:
http://www.youtube.com/v/FyvzWnNnBgU?version=3&hl=en_US
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You were told wrong.
They are both EXTREMELY reliable engines. It is not uncommon for racers to enter Gixxer 1000s in 4-hour endurance races, and recruit additional riders at the track, who will simply pitch in for tire expenses (and to pay for their own crash repairs). These bikes will do a bunch of regular races all year, do several 4-hour endurance races, with the engine spending around 12 hours at or near red line each season, and after several seasons, they are still as fast as they were when they were new. An engine failure would be EXTREMELY unusual. They are about as reliable as an anvil.
I was kinda refering to fast 1k's. Like 8 sec plus bikes. PHRASED MY STATEMENT WRONG
Sure, I understand.
Although it is technically possible to put nearly stock ones in the 8s, I now understand that you are talking about bikes with substantial engine modifications. Yes, the Hayabusa is pretty "over-built", and will tolerate more than the lighter 1000 engine. But I would not term the 1000 "a ticking time bomb". Actually, my biggest concern about drag racing a 1000, would be the smaller 1000 clutch having to endure MUCH more abuse, from having to slip it so much more. They Hayabusa has a much larger clutch, and doesn't require nearly as much slip to get it going.
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'For all practical purposes, the Hayabusa has more lean angle available than reasonable people use in reasonable situations, so it's dimensions are not an impediment. And with it's wide-ratio transmission and excess of instantly-accessible torque, it doesn't require the furious down-shifting of a liter bike, especially a short-stroke liter bike and/or one with an OEM exhaust header containing an exhaust flapper valve (they generally cause a huge hole right in the middle of the torque curve). In spontaneous situations, the Hayabusa is always going to have an advantage.'
Hey Kirk,
Have you ever ridden an 05'-06' GSX-R 1000? There is no furious downshifting required at all !!! Ride it like a Busa...put it in 6th and use your right wrist. These will out roll-on a Busa in any gear! I own both and know what I'm talking about. They are mid range MONSTERS!
These are long stroke motors (59mm - same as old 1127 air/oilcooled gixxer motors) and make a lot of torque. The exhaust valve in the stock header actually prevents the hole in the middle of the torque curve that you are refering to... This is where people go wrong when adding a slip-on, it kills mid-range. The bike accelerates through this hole then "comes on the pipe" with a big hit which fools them into thinking that their bike is now stronger. (plus the louder exhaust helps this deception)They actually lost power & torque which results in slower acceleration. Like I said earlier, I've been 9.74@ 146.62 mph with a stock pipe! I'm old and rusty (made it to the dragstrip once in 2011 & twice in 2010), I actually feel that I should have at least been 9.60's. I do agree with just about everything else you have mentioned though... Busa is best all around bike that I have ever owned!! And I've owned more than I can count...
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I agree with the 05and 06s are excellent in the midrange. Those are still my first choice for a track bike at a lot of smaller tracks.
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Yeah, I'm in the process of building 2 different 06's... One for track days and the other a street/strip bike.
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I'll be the first to admit that the 77x53.6mm 5-valve motor in my R1 does not have the same area under the torque curve as compared to the 73.4x59mm 4-valve motor of the '05-'06 Gixxer 1000. That said, I've ridden WITH those bikes.
My Hayabusa vs. '05 Gixxer 1000 experiences include race track AND drag strip comparisons, including a VERY telling experience at the drag strip against a very well prepared Supersport race-prepped '05 with a top local (as in AMA pro racing capable) rider, alongside my Hayabusa (valve cover never been off), and I dumped him like a dirty shirt. At the drag strip, the additional 2.6" of wheelbase allowed me to get the jump on him, and at the race track, the aerodynamics of the Hayabusa causes them to fall out of my draft above 150 mph.
My R1 vs. '05 Gixxer 1000 experiences include race track AND drag strip comparisons as well. In the interest of fairness, I should note that my R1 is equipped with a full aftermarket racing exhaust that eliminates the "EXUP" exhaust flapper valve- with a decent map in the Power Commander, it fills in the "hole" centered at about 7,500 rpm, to the tune of about 20-25 horsepower (no kidding!), although the bike only gained about 6 horsepower up top. The '05 Gixxer 1000s are CLEARLY faster than the pre-'05 models. At the top of the powerband, they are comparable enough with my R1 that it obviously comes down to differences in skill between riders (as it often does in these types of situations). On the drag strip, I've done surprisingly well against them. On the road racing course, I've had them get away from me, and I've had them not able to keep up- either way, the bikes themselves seem pretty close.
To the average street rider, I'm sure that the light weight and low-rpm power of the Gixxer makes it feel really powerful, making them a lot easier to live with (especially if you gear them down a little), and the short wheelbase isn't as much of a problem, because you're not doing 8000 rpm race launches.
Due to it's shorter wheelbase, the '05 Gixxer 1000 is never going to perform like the 3.2" longer Hayabusa through first gear.
And due to the Hayabusa's better aerodynamics, the '05 Gixxer 1000 is never going to perform like a Hayabusa above about 150 mph.
The narrower engine and lighter weight of ANY 1000 makes it a better choice for EXPERT level ROAD RACING.
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My Hayabusa vs. '05 Gixxer 1000 experiences include race track AND drag strip comparisons, including a VERY telling experience at the drag strip against a very well prepared Supersport race-prepped '05 with a top local (as in AMA pro racing capable) rider, alongside my Hayabusa (valve cover never been off), and I dumped him like a dirty shirt. At the drag strip, the additional 2.6" of wheelbase allowed me to get the jump on him, And due to the Hayabusa's better aerodynamics, the '05 Gixxer 1000 is never going to perform like a Hayabusa above about 150 mph.
He was not preforming at a AMA pro racing capability that day if you shit on him under those circumstances. I have seen 05s with BA riders on them and they do the shitting!
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So Kirk... You have NOT actually ridden an 05'-06' GSX-R 1000. Please read my posts. I own both of these bike at the present time. I've owned my 99' Busa for 10 years and bought my 05" 1000 new! My 05' 1000 has more ROLL-ON power than my Busa with less mods... I do not get to the tracks nearly as often anymore than I would like, but I have 25+ years of dragstrip experience and 15 years experience on roadrace tracks... The R1's are notorious for lack of mid-range (post 03', pre crossplane). Did you notice that I trapped at 146.62 with a stock exhaust! Did it this year my only time to the track( Nov. 5th at Edgewater ) to make my NHRA licensing passes. These 05'-06's are not typical of most 1000's. I'm just replying to the original post and your own comments. You need to ride one! And not one that has been neutered of it's mid-range by a cheap slip-on with no tuning all in the name of "it sounds better".
Oh by the way...the picture up on the left is this old fart(me) 10 years ago on an ancient 85' GSX-R 750 (Canadien model)/ 1109cc(1052), ported head,38 Flatslides, Yosh duplex, Yosh underbraced swingarm, Fox shock, 90' front end, 17' wheels, etc. blah blah blah at Putnam Park turn 8# (Dead Bear)... :D
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So Kirk... You have NOT actually ridden an 05'-06' GSX-R 1000. Please read my posts. I own both of these bike at the present time. I've owned my 99' Busa for 10 years and bought my 05" 1000 new! My 05' 1000 has more ROLL-ON power than my Busa with less mods... I do not get to the tracks nearly as often anymore than I would like, but I have 25+ years of dragstrip experience and 15 years experience on roadrace tracks... The R1's are notorious for lack of mid-range (post 03', pre crossplane). Did you notice that I trapped at 146.62 with a stock exhaust! Did it this year my only time to the track( Nov. 5th at Edgewater ) to make my NHRA licensing passes. These 05'-06's are not typical of most 1000's. I'm just replying to the original post and your own comments.
Yes, however, your experience does not negate my experiences. My drag racing experience spans a third of a century, and I have served as a road racing instructor and a race official- I'm not just pulling this stuff out of someone's butt.
We've both owned unrestricted Gen I Hayabusas and '04-'05 1000 cc Japanese Supersports.
We both have drag racing and road racing experience, and our competency has resulted in both of us receiving (expert?) racing licenses.
We both agree that the '04-'06 R1 might as well be a turbocharged 600.
We both agree that the '05+ Gixxer 1000 is much better than the earlier ones, and among the stronger 1000 cc bikes.
And "roll-on" is a type of deodorant. Who freekin' cares. The race track (and drag strip, I guess) determines what is faster and what is not.
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Kirk,
I never said, nor even implied anywhere that my experience "negates" yours. If you look at page 2 of this topic, you will see that I've actually been quicker at the dragstrip on my Busa than my 1000.
These bike are very evenly matched and it comes down to the rider. I put a lot of street miles on both of these bikes, and can tell you that my 1000 is marginally stronger. Period. It is easier on a Busa to go fast than it is on a 1000 for the average rider, whether it's at the dragstrip or on the street. If your not careful, a 1000 wants to kill you on the street. ( I'm not talking stoplight to stoplight) Remember that torque rules on the street...meaning that roll-on power means way more than deodorant... You might not care, but most of us do. Unless you are constantly, or only on racetracks (maybe you are?) we all know that either of these bikes are way too fast to be pulling the trigger on the street very often. Meaning that instant grunt means everything on the street. That's why I love both of these bikes so much! Twist your right wrist and you are GONE!!! hehehehe :lol:
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Yeah, I'm really not trying for this to be any kind of an argument between you and I. Maybe my limited English skills are making that point less clear than it should be. Have a nice day. :bike:
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I say take it to the tracks.........
Roll-ons do matter as they can tell a lot on how a bike will motor out of a corner and short straights.......I haven't been at big enough tracks to showcase the Hayabusa's advantage after 150mph so I can't say much there. Average tracks the GSXR 1K is an animal but requires a good rider to tame it. Our local track is dominated by 600s. The nearest 1K is a second slower.
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Our local track is dominated by 600s. The nearest 1K is a second slower.
Oh...my...goodness.
Are you going to get everyone's panties in a twist by saying that the '05-'06 Gixxer 1000 is slower than the 600s at your track? :lol:
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Short straights, tight corners and narrow corners. You can't quite carry as much corner speed in some of those tight turns with a litre+ size bike.
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Yeah, I'm just kidding. Lighter, narrower bikes, ESPECIALLY ones with less flywheel effect from smaller engine internals. That's just the way it works. Any track day rider who's ever been fast enough to get his 1000 cc bike into the "A" group and then get dropped by a 125 understands what we're talking about.
Here's 10 year old Peter Lenz (before his death), on a 125 that's been DOWNGRADED with an engine that has only about half the horsepower of a full-boogie 125. His bike only had 22 horsepower, and a top speed of 90 mph, but during this day (a California Superbike School conducted at The Streets Of Willow), he made over 300 passes, against every kind of sporting motorcycle up to and including many 1000cc bikes. For context, the camera bike/rider is Will Eikenberry, the track record holder, on his 600 race bike:
http://www.youtube.com/v/kU6xrs7SOCc?version=3&hl=en_US
My best explanation for being on track with 125s is that their passes are like watching someone throw steel lawn darts in a crowded shopping mall.
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11 year old Peter's first time on a 125 (a clapped out 15+ year old one with a torched piston and a bent front end :lol: ):
http://www.youtube.com/v/jnm5VeZIl_8?version=3&hl=en_US
I get a little choked up watching him. We used to watch him when he was a little kid. He got his start with our racing association, racing in the pocket bike class. He was just always head and shoulders faster than anybody else. That kid would have been the next Valentino Rossi.
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11 year old Peter's first time on a 125 (a clapped out 15+ year old one with a torched piston and a bent front end :lol: ):
http://www.youtube.com/v/jnm5VeZIl_8?version=3&hl=en_US
I get a little choked up watching him. We used to watch him when he was a little kid. He got his start with our racing association, racing in the pocket bike class. He was just always head and shoulders faster than anybody else. That kid would have been the next Valentino Rossi.
Hell of a rider! Too bad the good do die young. I even got a little choked up watching the vid. reminds me of my friend who tough me to ride who is no longer around.
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The truth hurts. The best 1K rider could not beat the best 600 rider. Just the way it is. The second best 600 rider is quicker than the best 1K rider. The facts are the facts. Corner speed is better on the 600s......we have a few tight corners and even the widest turn is not advantageous for the 1Ks.....
Sandia Motor Speedway
(http://www.trackhq.com/forums/attachments/f108/49d1172441128-sandia-motor-speedway-info-trackmap-smp.jpg)
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The truth hurts. The best 1K rider could not beat the best 600 rider. Just the way it is. The second best 600 rider is quicker than the best 1K rider. The facts are the facts. Corner speed is better on the 600s......we have a few tight corners and even the widest turn is not advantageous for the 1Ks.....
Sandia Motor Speedway
(http://www.trackhq.com/forums/attachments/f108/49d1172441128-sandia-motor-speedway-info-trackmap-smp.jpg)
Just looked up the track info. I was getting ready to make a moderately clever comment regarding how a well set-up CRF450R 'tard might do as compared to the 600s that you mention, and then I took an onboard lap via youtube...holy crap- that has to be the most unsafe track I think I've ever seen. Zero runoff, followed immediately by freeking concrete. Who in their right mind would even run there? Who would allow them to? That's just messed up. Buddy- buy a little more gas and go somewhere safe. Anywhere. Damn.
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Well the dark path is the best path for bikes. Also running it clockwise is about the best bet well at least the fastest when coming out of what you see as turn 1 but is turn 7 when running clockwise. Of all the wrecks we have had almost all have been in a corner with enough room to crash plus the speed isn't fast enough in most of the corners. But I do agree it's not the safest track out there.
Oh the Pits are actually where the Paddock is located so you know. In turn 7 there is no wall there so you can run off quite a bit into an open area which I have had to do twice.
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This was filmed at our track as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYpOFimB7ZA
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Well the dark path is the best path for bikes. Also running it clockwise is about the best bet well at least the fastest when coming out of what you see as turn 1 but is turn 7 when running clockwise. Of all the wrecks we have had almost all have been in a corner with enough room to crash plus the speed isn't fast enough in most of the corners. But I do agree it's not the safest track out there.
Oh the Pits are actually where the Paddock is located so you know. In turn 7 there is no wall there so you can run off quite a bit into an open area which I have had to do twice.
The first video I looked up on youtube was a car running the track in the opposite direction, and all I saw was those concrete barriers. Either way, it looks like a fairly scary place to ride or race. Race tracks are supposed to be MORE safe than riding on the street, not less safe. :lol:
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This was filmed at our track as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYpOFimB7ZA
Dude...what was the point of that? :lol:
Drifting is not a motorsport. Show me motorcycle road racing. Show me supermoto. Heck, show me pocket bike racing. But don't show me stuff like that. :tu:
You've got more guts than I do, to ride your Hayabusa at that track. You have my respect. I like you, man. But as a friend, I have to ask- Please don't do stuff like that to my eyeballs again. :wink:
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This was filmed at our track as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYpOFimB7ZA
Dude...what was the point of that? :lol:
That was the gayest thing I've seen in a long time, and for reference purposes, I just saw an article on msn about George Michael's diminished T-cell count or something like that. :lol:
Drifting is not a motorsport. Show me motorcycle road racing. Show me supermoto. Heck, show me pocket bike racing. But don't show me stuff like that. :tu:
You've got more guts than I do, to ride your Hayabusa at that track. You have my respect. I like you, man. But as a friend, I have to ask- Please don't do stuff like that to my eyeballs again. :wink:
Kirk calm down,, your just jello you can't do that without taking a moonshot. :hys:
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This was filmed at our track as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYpOFimB7ZA
Dude...what was the point of that? :lol:
That was the gayest thing I've seen in a long time, and for reference purposes, I just saw an article on msn about George Michael's diminished T-cell count or something like that. :lol:
Drifting is not a motorsport. Show me motorcycle road racing. Show me supermoto. Heck, show me pocket bike racing. But don't show me stuff like that. :tu:
You've got more guts than I do, to ride your Hayabusa at that track. You have my respect. I like you, man. But as a friend, I have to ask- Please don't do stuff like that to my eyeballs again. :wink:
Hahah.....its cool....that was just a decent video to see the track as it almost appears to look like instead of the GoPros or Pen camsthat do not give you a better view of the actual action IMHO
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After I realized you guys run it in the other direction, my youtube-fu detected that "SMRI" is a more productive search criteria.
Still checkin' it out... :tu:
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Got side-tracked reading the SMRI's club racing rulebook. Looks like a CRF450R Supermotard fits in five classes, and the Daytona 675 fits in six:
A. Unlimited GP (Feature Race)
1. Season points determine the next years top ten expert number plate holders
2. Expert Only
3. Unlimited Configuration
CRF450R Supermotard or Daytona 675
B. Open Superbike
1. Production based 4 strokes
2. Unlimited displacement
3. Unlimited cylinder configuration
4. See Section 2.3 for further requirements
CRF450R Supermotard or Daytona 675
C. Formula 1000
1. Production based 4 strokes
2. 750cc displacement and above machines only
3. Unlimited cylinder configuration
4. See Section 2.3 for further requirements
Pass. No point in buying a Gixxer 750 for just one class. Probably be a good time to go visit the ambulance for a quick IV. :wink:
D. Middleweight Superbike
1. Production based 4 strokes
2. Up to 650cc, 4 cylinder
3. Up to 750cc twin, liquid cooled, 4 valve
4. Twin, less than 4 valve, unlimited displacement
5. Triple up to 900cc
6. Four cylinder, two valve, unlimited displacement
7. See section 2.3 for further requirements
Daytona 675
K. Amateur Super Twins
1. Open to Novice and Expert
2. Any non-four cylinder motorcycle
3. See Section 2.3 for further requirements
CRF450R Supermotard or Daytona 675
L. Amateur Club Sport
1. Open to Novice and Expert
2. Four cylinder, liquid cooled up to 560cc
3. Twin, liquid cooled up to 700cc
4. Four cylinder, air cooled up to 750cc
5. Twin, air-cooled up to 1200cc
6. Single, unlimited displacement
7. Two stroke, air cooled, unlimited displacement
8. Two cylinder, two stroke, liquid cooled, up to 250cc
9. Modern Vintage Bikes (10+year old VIN#)
10. See Section 2.3 for further requirements
CRF450R Supermotard (Note the rules also allow the TZ250, lol.)
M. Amateur GTU
1. Open to Novice and Expert
2. Same as MIDDLEWEIGHT SUPERBIKE
3. May be non-production based
4. See Section 2.3 for further requirements
Daytona 675
N. Amateur GTO
1. Open to Novice and Expert
2. Same as OPEN SUPERBIKE
3. May be non-production based
4. See Section 2.3 for further requirements
CRF450R Supermotard or Daytona 675
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Well because the club is overall small we combine a lot of different class bikes into one class. Yea you will find a ton more vids under SMRI on Youtube.
As far as Sandia Motor Speedway, SMRI club is the most lucrative of all club sports there.....
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Yeah, I watched a bunch of videos of SMRI racing. It looks like a fun club to race with. :tu:
I didn't link any videos here, because the cameras were either blurry, or shaking, or pointed in the dirt, or whatever. Just video issues, not having anything to do with the racing. I liked the 'tard gridded in the front row of the Super Street races (the guy in the white and black leathers with the aero back hump), racing against all the four cylinder bikes and doing well. :tu:
Thanks for sharing. :tu:
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Some interesting numbers here... Keep in mind that these bikes are bone stock with factory gearing. The 60-80 mph numbers are telling of the bottom end power with the stock gearing, and the 80-100 mph more indicative of mid range. Enjoy!
http://www.sportrider.com/performance_numbers/146_motorcycle_performance_numbers/viewall.html
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Those are top gear roll-on numbers. 6th gear in a Hayabusa is going to be MUCH taller than 6th gear in a smaller bike.
Apples to oranges.
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6th gear in a Gixxer 1000 is 5.263:1 overall.
The closest to that in the Hayabusa is 3rd gear.
http://www.aperaceparts.com/tech/specshayabusa.html (http://www.aperaceparts.com/tech/specshayabusa.html)
http://aperaceparts.com/tech/2010%20Suzuki%20GSXR1000.html (http://aperaceparts.com/tech/2010%20Suzuki%20GSXR1000.html)
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But those are real world numbers. Bikes are geared for their displacement, powerband, and rev range. 1st gen Busa redlines at 11,000, 05'- 06' 1000 13,500. Everything is relative. Mid part of the rev range is mid part regardless. That's why 10,000 RPM on a 600 is considered mid range. My point in the beginning of this whole thing is that an 05'- 06' GSX-R 1000 is just like a Busa in that it doesn't matter what gear, what rpm, or what speed you are travelling at, just twist your wrist and it GOES!!!
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I don't agree with that........real world is to be in the best gear to win.....the Busa sucks in 5th and 6th gear when the stock sprockets are in use.
The Blackbird rolls out better than the Busa in a couple gears and it is 30hp less than the Gen I Busa
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Yeah. When was the last time you raced someone starting out in 6th gear, especially on a Hayabusa- that's stupid.
If you want to make an apples to apples comparison, put the Gixxer 1000 in 6th, put the Hayabusa in 3rd, so that they both have similar gearing and are starting from similar engine speeds and road speeds, and then do a roll-on.
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Yeah. When was the last time you raced someone starting out in 6th gear, especially on a Hayabusa- that's stupid.
If you want to make an apples to apples comparison, put the Gixxer 1000 in 6th, put the Hayabusa in 3rd, so that they both have similar gearing and are starting from similar engine speeds and road speeds, and then do a roll-on.
That makes much more sence
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So... You guys actually think that a 3rd to 6th gear comparison is apples to apples? :shock: Considering they're both geared for somewhere around 200mph in 6th stock (Kirk please confirm this as I don't have the time to dig up the actual numbers) Hmmmmm
maybe the busa should start out in second gear and the 1000 in 1st since the 1000 has such a tall 1st gear because of the close ratio trans... You see where I'm going with this. You can't compare on hard numbers like gear ratios unless it's a busa to busa (or any other same bike) comparison. Yes, you can compare a busa to ZX14, or 1000's to each other, I can't believe I actually have to say that, but I do so that I don't get hammered for it as well... :| And of course, we all gear our own bikes for personal preferences, or needs.
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...maybe the busa should start out in second gear and the 1000 in 1st since the 1000 has such a tall 1st gear because of the close ratio trans... You see where I'm going with this. You can't compare on hard numbers like gear ratios...
No, actually first gear on the Gixxer 1000 is even deeper than first gear on the Hayabusa.
Two additional teeth on the back of the Hayabusa would make first gear about the same as a stock Gixxer 1000.
Any way you slice it, the Gixxer 1000 is at a disadvantage in a straight line.
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I fully understand the math... But if you factor in redline, the Busa is at 83 mph in 1st, the 1000 is at 101mph!!! Are you just messing with me or what??? Don't insult my intelligence. A Busa with the 1000 trans. ratio would suck! You'd be wasting it's torque. Gear a stock Busa for 6 gears at the dragstrip and see how much slower you go... :hys:
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...maybe the busa should start out in second gear and the 1000 in 1st since the 1000 has such a tall 1st gear because of the close ratio trans... You see where I'm going with this. You can't compare on hard numbers like gear ratios...
No, actually first gear on the Gixxer 1000 is even deeper than first gear on the Hayabusa.
Two additional teeth on the back of the Hayabusa would make first gear about the same as a stock Gixxer 1000.
Any way you slice it, the Gixxer 1000 is at a disadvantage in a straight line.
I was fucking around, I personally dont agree with that.
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There is a point where gearing too much can be detrimental to straight line performance especially in first gear but not as much as you seem to make it sound like.
I have mine geared +6 in the rear and it does just fine. When I had -1/+6 it seemed like a lot but it still accelerated better but to be in the right spot in every gear I short shifted a few 100 rpms than before. I preferred +6 only. I still use it everywhere drags/roadcourse/street......almost the perfect gearing for my bike's HP and my bike/rider weight.
My old 750 Turbo was geared -1/+2 5 speed trans and I foot shifted at 50ft out just before the 60ft, this was at 9200rpms..going through the traps in 5th at 9400rpms........that is a bitch with a decent launch on street tire..... :eek:
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stk for stk a 05-08 1000 is faster than a busa with a lite rider
Lol. :lol:
Under what conditions are you claiming this?
I live at the drag strip in the summer and have seen it time and time again. My son is 15 150 suited and has been 8.82 at 153 on my bone stk motor 06 1000. Aint many busas that will do that. Same power as a gen 1 busa and 100lbs lighter!!!!
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Amen.
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stk for stk a 05-08 1000 is faster than a busa with a lite rider
Lol. :lol:
Under what conditions are you claiming this?
I live at the drag strip in the summer and have seen it time and time again. My son is 15 150 suited and has been 8.82 at 153 on my bone stk motor 06 1000. Aint many busas that will do that. Same power as a gen 1 busa and 100lbs lighter!!!!
Interesting and yet intellectually dishonest manipulation of semantics. :tu:
"st[oc]k for st[oc]k" becomes bone st[oc]k "motor". No showroom stock '06 Gixxer 1000 has gone any 8.82 at 153 mph. You want to put up a picture of this bike so that we can see how heavily modified this allegedly stock bike is? :lol:
By the way, the word "stock" is not spelled "stk". :lol:
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Quit stirring shit Kirk..... :hys:
The word "Stock" sure gets thrown around in all directions. In the world of cars and bikes, stock means as bought from the showroom floor. My bike isn't stock. Once you do any mod no matter how small it may seem, it is no longer stock. Mine looks almost stock except for some bling (wheels).....so I usually lie and tell the ignorants that it is stock...... :eek:
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...mine has "cop shocks", and "cop tires", and it was built before the year of the catalytic converter, so it runs great on regular gas... :lol:
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Duplicate post.
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He said bone stock motor, not stock bike. I've always taken that as an internally stock engine... 8)
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Here you go!!!!!
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here is an 8.86 pass you can check out since Im full of shit!!! :hys:
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Yeah, that looks stock... :roll:
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Quit stirring shit Kirk..... :hys:
The word "Stock" sure gets thrown around in all directions. In the world of cars and bikes, stock means as bought from the showroom floor. My bike isn't stock. Once you do any mod no matter how small it may seem, it is no longer stock. Mine looks almost stock except for some bling (wheels).....so I usually lie and tell the ignorants that it is stock...... :eek:
Yeah:
I have a 06 1000 10 over...
So he took a perfectly good Gixxer 1000 and modified it so that it wouldn't turn, it wouldn't stop, and he'd reduced it's top speed by about 35 mph.
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If you "lived" at the dragstrip like bryanclapper69, would you bring your roadracer that's set up for roadracing? I think not! What's your point? Stock engine is the claim, NOT stock bike...
You're getting side tracked just to prove WHAT..............??? :?
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Quit stirring shit Kirk..... :hys:
The word "Stock" sure gets thrown around in all directions. In the world of cars and bikes, stock means as bought from the showroom floor. My bike isn't stock. Once you do any mod no matter how small it may seem, it is no longer stock. Mine looks almost stock except for some bling (wheels).....so I usually lie and tell the ignorants that it is stock...... :eek:
Yeah:
I have a 06 1000 10 over...
So he took a perfectly good Gixxer 1000 and modified it so that it wouldn't turn, it wouldn't stop, and he'd reduced it's top speed by about 35 mph.
so you like to cruz around, we like to go fast in a hurry. lmao Just givin ya what you asked for!!!
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tell your son good work!!! Thats some good riding :thumb:
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:thumb:
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tell your son good work!!! Thats some good riding :thumb:
Thanks man!!! Not to bad for only bein 15 lol
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Yes, that is impressive. I've never drag raced anything lower or longer than stock, but I'm assuming that even at 10 over and lowered three or four inches, that there is still a significant amount of skill required to 60-foot one of those.
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If you "lived" at the dragstrip like bryanclapper69, would you bring your roadracer that's set up for roadracing? I think not! What's your point? Stock engine is the claim, NOT stock bike...
You're getting side tracked just to prove WHAT..............??? :?
Actually, it is Bryan who is getting side-tracked. Let's go back and take a look at the beginning of this thread, which is entitled "1000cc bikes vs Busa's":
Just outa curiosity, since I bought my Busa(24 hours ago) I have had tons of guys riding basiclly stock R1's CBR1000rr's, and Gixxer 1k's telling me that their bikes would blow my 07 Busa away. All I can really do is laugh because I had an 04 Gixxer 1k, that was very quick. I'm talkin all i could really do to make it faster was boost it or spray it.....and that bike still didn't stand a chance against a Busa...So I guess I wanna know what makes these dip stick's think that they can magically destroy a busa. Now granted, if you throw a ton of money at a litre bike you can make it faster......than a stock or lightly modified busa.....but then what about a highly modded Busa??? I just don't get it I guess..... Alll I can tell these guys is google the numbers they speak for themselves. Oh well, I am much more comfortablt on the Busa and I can tell it's way quicker. I havent really ventured too much into the throttle....but where i have gone so far I have been severly WOW'd!! :tu:
This thread is not about Bryan.
This thread is not about Bryan living at the drag strip.
This thread is not about whether Bryan can spend thousands of dollars performing radical modifications to a Gixxer 1000 for it to keep up with a Hayabusa within the extremely narrow spectrum of a 1320 foot drag strip...as long as he uses a jockey that is 50 pounds lighter than him. :roll:
There's a whole big world out there- a three-dimensional world, that involves things like turning, stopping, and going faster than half-way through 4th gear.
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And like I said before... I OWN both of these bikes, and my 1000 is faster!!! :bah: My Busa is 25 lbs. lighter than stock, my 1000 is at stock weight with factory exhaust. My Busa has more mods than my 1000. I've lived with both bikes for 6 1/2 years. I'm stating fact from first hand experience. If my Busa was faster, I'd say so... This isn't about personal preferences. I'm just telling it like it is! What don't you understand/comprehend about this?
FYI.. I'm 180-185 suited and have trapped at 146.62 on my 1000. Stock wheelbase, stock exhaust, stock engine, 1 tooth down front, strapped.
Think about it!!! :bah:
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SEJ, I'm hearing you, and it's not my intention for you to get all worked up.
Can I ask under what conditions your Gixxer 1000 is faster than your Hayabusa, and can you give us a quick run-down on each bike, in terms of model year, modifications, etc.?
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Well basically my 1000 will out pull my Busa at almost any speed or gear. The exceptions are:
- From a stop due to the extra wheelbase and 1st gear of the Busa.
- Somewhere at BIG MPH's my Busa has an advantage strictly due to aerodynamics. Now where the cross over point is at, I don't know. I'd have to guess that if you were side by side at a steady 170 mph, then went for it, the Busa would out pull my 1000 due to aero & and as a rider being able to get fully tucked out of the windstream. This might happen at a higher speed, but since I can't ride them both at the same time, I can't be sure.
- Black/Gray 1999 Busa (aluminum subframe)
- Full Muzzy System
- Powercommander
- Small airbox mod
- BMC Filter
- Welded clutch Hub / Heavy Duty Springs
- Galfer Wave Rotors / braided lines
- Aftermarket top tripple plate
- Adjustable (threaded) dogbones
- 3 teeth up in the rear/ front stock
- Black/ Yellow 2005 GSX-R 1000
- BMC Filter
- Homemade switchable TRE
- Slightly modified stock exhaust with fully functional exhaust valve
- 1 tooth down on front/ rear stock
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its all simple math bro.
busa at lets say 500lbs and 160hp that is 3.25lbs per hp
06 1000 at 400lbs and 160hp that is 2.5lbs per hp
Which one is gona be faster?
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and I just got a 07 busa and had base gasket removed and dual intake cams. Im guessing maybe 170hp. I bet my 1000 is still faster at the 1/4 than the busa, but in spring time will let you know!!!
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Here's some hard numbers:
Best trap speed Busa - 146.27. 1/8 mile trap speed on same pass - 119.14 Back half gain - 27.13
Best trap speed 1000 - 146.62. 1/8 mile trap speed on same pass - 117.98
Back half gain - 28.64
Difference - 1.51mph to my 1000
This pretty much says it all... 8)
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Your own numbers indicate that the Hayabusa has an advantage up to at least 120 mph, and you also admit that above 170 mph, the Hayabusa has the advantage. So what's left? The 50 mph in between 120 mph and 170 mph? You gotta be kidding me- THAT's what you're staking your claim on?
In the REAL WORLD, we don't spend all of our time cruising around in a gear that puts us near the horsepower peak of our motorcycles. To make an extreme example, lets look at 600 supersports. Anything that can pull off mid ten second quarter miles is not exactly slow, but anyone who's ever ridden a 600 on the street can tell you that they can't get out of their own way in traffic. That's because 600 riders don't cruise around on the street at 15,000 rpms.
And the further we get away from the power peak, the more of a disadvantage the 1000 has, as compared to the Hayabusa. The close-ratio gearbox of the 1000 also places any meaningful acceleration further away from where you're at right now, in terms of the number of downshifts that you have to make in order to be able to accelerate with any meaningful thrust.
At 4000 rpms, the Hayabusa has about twice the torque and horsepower of a Gixxer 1000.
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Um Kirk... My Hayabusa numbers were from 2003 when I was still on top of my game. The 119.14 1/8 mile speed is also it's all time best, they happened on the same pass. The temperature was no warmer than 45 degrees. I just ran the 146.62 on my 1000 on 11/5/11 - the only time to the dragstrip all year! I'm not on my game at the present time. Also, the 117.98 is NOT my best 1/8 mile trap speed. I've been high 118's in my limited time of dragracing it. Remember that dragracing is about the rider! Mile an hour numbers indicate horsepower, and the fact that my 1000 was able to pull to a higher terminal speed at the same distance from a slower starting point says it all. I will do roll-ons from any speed in any gear and be quicker on my 1000 period. And as for the over 170? I'd like to find out since it could easily be a higher number than what I have guessed. I guarantee that it is not a lower number. In other words a roll-on in 1st gear between the two and it would be OVER for my busa!
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Kirk, You really need to read all of my posts... My 1000 will out roll my Busa in 6th gear from 40 mph. It will do it in any gear from any speed at any rpm!!! Get it! :bah: I never cruise around on the street in any gear but 6th! I don't need to! Your talking about optimum rpms and all of that... It doesn't matter on my 1000! I can't seem to get that through to you! It does everything just like my Busa, only a hair better!
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Here's some hard numbers:
Best trap speed Busa - 146.27.
Best trap speed 1000 - 146.62.
This pretty much says it all... 8)
Okay, well good luck with that one-third of a mile per hour there... :tu:
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Nice try Kirk! You asked for bike specs and then conveniently ignored the fact that my 1000 is at stock weight with stock pipe. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison... :wink: Don't you think? Oh... I conveniently forgot to tell you that my Busa was slammed on its nuts when I ran the 9.59/119.14/146.27 pass... sorry :( Yeah...it was set up for the dragstrip when I ran those numbers, even though it was at stock length and foot shifted. Hell, just give me the 58.5" wheelbase of the Busa on my 1000 and see what happens... You talk about 600's that can't get out of their own way unless revving to the moon, and I've been telling you that my 05' 1000 is more Busa like than a Busa. The problem here is that you've never owned, much less RIDDEN an 05'-06' 1000 gixxer... You want to compare your 05' R1 to the same generation GSX-R! Your R1 might as well be a 600... you DO have to row gears on those to go anything approaching fast. You talk about area under the curve, but have absolutely no seat time on an 05'-06' GSX-R 1000... YOU wanna feel "area under the curve"? Then get some seat time!!! :hys:
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I have a 01 1000 and a 00 busa. The motor is stock in both bikes, all that is done is exhaust and air filter on both bikes. The busa has a small box mod and tuned with a power comander. The 1000 is tuned on stock ecu. My gsxr 1000 is alot faster off the line then my busa, but from highway speeds on, the busa will leave the 1000. I leave alot of other liter bikes off the line as well. My friend has a 06 gsxr 1000 with motor work and my 01 with a stock motor will leave it off the line, he will come around me when im in low 3rd gear.
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I have a 01 1000 and a 00 busa. The motor is stock in both bikes, all that is done is exhaust and air filter on both bikes. The busa has a small box mod and tuned with a power comander. The 1000 is tuned on stock ecu. My gsxr 1000 is alot faster off the line then my busa, but from highway speeds on, the busa will leave the 1000. I leave alot of other liter bikes off the line as well.
Yup. And if you developed your launching skills, the additonal wheelbase of your Hayabusa would eliminate even that brief jump that the 1000 currently has.
My friend has a 06 gsxr 1000 with motor work and my 01 with a stock motor will leave it off the line, he will come around me when im in low 3rd gear.
3rd gear (with stock gearing and a stock sized tire) is from about 110 to about 135 if your running it all the way out. If you stay in it after third gear, the aerodynamics of your Hayabusa are going to cause you to motor on by. Unless you're using a turbo or a butt-load of nitrous, you can't put enough horsepower in a 1000 to overcome the poor aerodynamics. The horsepower required increases at the square of the wind resistance. That's why even a 200 horsepower S1000RR has a lower top speed than an unrestricted or de-restricted 160 horsepower Hayabusa.
Torque.
Wheelbase.
Aerodynamics.
[/quote]
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I have a 01 1000 and a 00 busa. The motor is stock in both bikes, all that is done is exhaust and air filter on both bikes. The busa has a small box mod and tuned with a power comander. The 1000 is tuned on stock ecu. My gsxr 1000 is alot faster off the line then my busa, but from highway speeds on, the busa will leave the 1000. I leave alot of other liter bikes off the line as well.
Yup. And if you developed your launching skills, the additonal wheelbase of your Hayabusa would eliminate even that brief jump that the 1000 currently has.
My friend has a 06 gsxr 1000 with motor work and my 01 with a stock motor will leave it off the line, he will come around me when im in low 3rd gear.
3rd gear (with stock gearing and a stock sized tire) is from about 110 to about 135 if your running it all the way out. If you stay in it after third gear, the aerodynamics of your Hayabusa are going to cause you to motor on by. Unless you're using a turbo or a butt-load of nitrous, you can't put enough horsepower in a 1000 to overcome the poor aerodynamics. The horsepower required increases at the square of the wind resistance. That's why even a 200 horsepower S1000RR has a lower top speed than an unrestricted or de-restricted 160 horsepower Hayabusa.
Torque.
Wheelbase.
Aerodynamics.
[/quote]
U talk out of your ass.
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1/4 Mile 6th Gear roll-on Stock gearing - Both bikes geared for 200+ in 6th
60-80 80-100
Hayabusa ('08) 9.68 @ 148.3 2.57 2.75
GSX-R1000 ('05) 9.79 @ 148.4 2.46 2.48
Well Kirk...I decided to compare with a second generation Hayabusa that we all know is much stronger than a 1st Gen...
The ET's support your wheelbase claim (which I completely agree with). The trap speeds indicate power to weight ratio, and the top gear roll-on numbers indicate torque to weight ratio. DO you still want to argue all of my claims about my 05' 1000? If you owned both bikes simultaneously and had tons of seat time on both, and I didn't. I sure as hell wouldn't be telling you that you are basically full of shit like you have been doing to me!
The problem with comparing 1000's to Busa's is that there are to many manufacturers, models, and generations of 1000's.
- Aprilia
- BMW
- Honda
- Kawasaki
- MV Agusta
- Suzuki
- Yamaha
Depending how you want to count, there are any where from 20-25 different models/generations!
That is why I'm only speaking of the generation of model that I own... Yeah I have ridden many others, and have even raced others for their owners, but I prefer not to debate what I can't be 100% sure about... 8)
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The ET's support your wheelbase claim (which I completely agree with).
Yeah...
The trap speeds indicate power to weight ratio,
Yeah...
...and the top gear roll-on numbers indicate torque to weight ratio.
Ahh, no. Like I said, 6th gear on the Gixxer 1000 approximates the same mechanical advantage as third gear on the Hayabusa.
DO you still want to argue all of my claims about my 05' 1000?
Now that we've settled the first quarter-mile from a standing start, I think the only part of this that remains unresolved is the top speed thing. I think that I've already spent way too much time with you on fundamental arithmatic at this point, so the answer to your question is "no"- I really don't care what you claim to believe.
I weigh 185 pounds (200 in gear), and in a straight line, I've repeatedly dumped every single '05 Gixxer 1000 (and every other year of Gixxer 1000, and every year of every other brand of 1000, and so on, and so on, and so on...) that I've ever come across with my Gen I Hayabusa, from drag strip to top speed runs, consistent with what the fundamental arithmatic supports, and I've never had the valve cover off.
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The ET's support your wheelbase claim (which I completely agree with).
Yeah...
The trap speeds indicate power to weight ratio,
Yeah...
...and the top gear roll-on numbers indicate torque to weight ratio.
Ahh, no. Like I said, 6th gear on the Gixxer 1000 approximates the same mechanical advantage as third gear on the Hayabusa.
DO you still want to argue all of my claims about my 05' 1000?
Now that we've settled the first quarter-mile from a standing start, I think the only part of this that remains unresolved is the top speed thing. I think that I've already spent way too much time with you on fundamental arithmatic at this point, so the answer to your question is "no"- I really don't care what you claim to believe.
I weigh 185 pounds (200 in gear), and in a straight line, I've repeatedly dumped every single '05 Gixxer 1000 (and every other year of Gixxer 1000, and every year of every other brand of 1000, and so on, and so on, and so on...) that I've ever come across with my Gen I Hayabusa, from drag strip to top speed runs, consistent with what the fundamental arithmatic supports, and I've never had the valve cover off.
And like I said, go ahead and put a 1000 ratio transmission in your Busa and see what happens to its top speed. It will then definitely be slower than a 1000!!! And you know it... 8) Better yet, let's stick a 600cc ratio transmission in your Busa and give it a REAL mechanical advantage. Have fun with your 120 mph Busa Kirk ! :hys: Like I said before, I FULLY understand the math. But I'm dealing with the real world. Everything is geared according to displacement, rpm's, weight, etc. Whether it's a 3000 rpm diesel, 7000 rpm V-8, or a 20,000 rpm 250. In other words, the FACT that both bikes are geared for the same top speed in 6th gear, makes it an apples to apples comparison, regardless of your "fundamental arithmetic". You really need to stop misleading the people who want a real world answer...
The FACT that 05-06 1000's have better roll on numbers IS real world...get it?
When my 1000 was showroom new and stock, it was already equal to my modded Busa and I couldn't believe it!!! My youngest son, who is 5" taller than me and outweighs me by 70 lbs., and I would take both bikes out and do numerous different gear/ rpm/ speed roll ons. The bike that I was riding, whether it was my Busa or 1000 would always pull the same advantage over the other bike.
When my 1000 had about 800 miles on it, a group of us took a couple hundred mile ride. There were three 01'-04' GSX-R 1000's, my 05' 1000, and 2 Busas. We were out in the middle of nowhere on state rt. 32 in Ohio. 2 lanes in each direction with a median separating them. We came to a traffic light for a small town on the left, the light was red...
Yeah, you know what happened next. All 6 bikes lined up across our 2 lanes, I was on the far right of the right lane. I'm thinking 'we're not really going to do this, are we?' I told myself that I wasn't... but you all know what happened when the light changed... It was surreal, like being in a movie and laughing hysterically! One of the Busas had hi-comp drop-ins, full Akropovic, lowered, geared, mapped, etc. He left everyone at the line and was gone. I was next, but then proceeded to leave the group I was with and not only catch, but pass that Busa... Everyone was in shock and disbelief! Yes the rider on that Busa weighs 230+, but still it was FAR from stock...
The fact that your Busa is/was FAR from stock, and I'm talking about the bike, NOT the engine, means absolutely nothing in this comparison. How much money did you throw at it Kirk? Remember...apples to apples
My 1000 still has the factory exhaust, and is still at stock weight. Just adding a aftermarket exhaust reduces the weight dramatically.
In other words: I'd be glad to spank your ass & "with what the fundamental arithmetic supports" claim anytime... Bring it on! :wink:
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(http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00NUTEKGanmugt/Roll-On-Deodorant-8xxxx-Series-.jpg)
(http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00MUQteFEcsuCP/Anti-Perspirant-Roll-On-Deodorant-8xxxx-Series-.jpg)
:wink:
:roll:
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kirk are the initial ratios meshing between the transmission and motor the same on a busa a 1000. maybe look that up before getting confused with 6th and 3rd gear.
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I just got my first busa 2011 just got twin two bro exhaust on it traded my 2011 gsxr. I'll be picking it up mid week I've had 600rr(07) 750(01) 954(04) so am really gone see what's faster in my hands I'll post later my thoughts on what I think. :o
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85A7ZRcSmEI&feature=player_detailpage please take a look at this
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Like nobody here on the .org has ever seen that video........your point? :td:
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hi busashot sorry for assuming EVERYONE on this site hadn't seen this video,the point is members seem to be bickering about how fast the busa as oposed to the smaller 1000 bikes ,this stops the arguing as in standard form the bmw wins it.
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No problem just busting your balls. I have ridden just about every bike made so I have an idea what I like. Even if the Busa or ZX14 aren't the quickest or fastest depending on mods, etc., they give the most smiles for the miles because of the "Big Block" feel of acceleration and relative comfort. To date the only litre bike that impresses me is the S1000RR. But not in stock form. Since I live up at mile high, it is very lacking in the low to mid acceleration but moves out once over 9k then it's just a matter of going for the ride. Now once you put some decent gears such as -1, +2 the bike wakes up nicely like most litre bikes do. A pipe, filter and tune then you have an animal. It really is nice bike and it should be since the engine is by far more advanced than the current crop of Jap machinery.
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hi busa shot i know what you mean i too like the big block four cylinders,just sold the new zzr 1441 ,as it was too much money lying in the garage for the amount of time i get to ride,i have had numerous zzr 1400's and 1200s,love them the new 1441 is stunning with a much better ride and perfomance than the older models,but the gearbox is awful the clunk into first gear is so harsh the bike sounds as if the box is going to explode,this is my first busa 2010 mint with 3400 miles on it i am yet to get it out on the road (due to our weather)but already i am loving the ultra smooth gearbox roll on the good weather !!
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I remember the 14s trans shifting very smooth especially compared to the Busas..........I don't know....I only ran a new 14 for about a couple miles and it was very TQ'y feeling especially compared to the old Gens and the Busas.
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rider has to do with it all! Well mostly..
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Out of the three fastest bikes I ever rode, my turbo Busa, a 14 with a pipe and lots of dyno time, and a stock Beemer 1000, the the Beemer was hands down the absolute smoothest shifting bike I have ever seen, the quik shift deal worked like butter, now the bike could never run with my Busa or even the 14, but if you got into any twistys at all the Busa or 14 would have a real tough time staying even close to that BMW
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Interesting.
Now I think the Busa makes a better, easier to ride STREET bike. My '07 1000 was a much better road racer. But how about a Busa engine in a 1000 frame?
G
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I have to say that my 2011 Busa, in comparison to the previous street bikes I have owned (08' CBR1000rr, 05' Raven R1, 2003 GSXR 750, and 2000 CBR F4) all of which were highly modified. I find my Busa is WAY more comfortable to ride, along with being a lot more powerful than my previous bikes. I think it all comes down to rider experience, with the right rider any bike can be fast.
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:thumb:
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I got to +1 that
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I know this is a 1000cc v. Busa thread but for what its worth I put a beating on this guy today... Im not really impressed with the ZX14... Nice bike tho, just not for me.