SuzukiHayabusa.org
TECHNICAL => MODS => Topic started by: Deiv on November 04, 2013, 05:05:46 AM
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Hy all
Need to swap on my GEN1 turbo Busa electronics to GEN2 to get the boost / MAP based fuelling !!! Tired of those FMU -s and stuff :evil:
At the moment 1:1 regulator , 850 cc. main injectors , ECU Editor - still I need boost based fuelling system !!!
What exactly do I need to change for swap to GEN2 electrycs - main harness, ECU :?
Couldn`t find any link to help me out !!! Has anybody done that ???
Many thanks already :tu:
Deiv :D
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Best to speak to Sportbikeryder on here, he has done it and he can give you the low down on all the things that need to be changed to get it to work.
Also a link to his build and comments
http://ecuhacking.activeboard.com/t38224981/gen2-ecu-conversion-for-a-gen1-for-use-in-a-prostreet-bike/
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Thanks for that one .
But I´m afraid , that there are a lot of things that need exact answere :D
Like - will the gen1 lights,controls , sensors work with new gen2 harness ??? But that I can figure out myself also I think.
What about this cam sensor and generator stator issue - what parts exactly needed to change or modify ???
Where to connect MAP sensor and what part # it is - where to buy it ???
What to do with gen2 sensor connectors that gen1 motor doesn`t have , like oil picup,secondary throttles,secondary injectors ...... ???
Lots of stuff for me to find out :lol: But I have the best possible help I think :tu:
Gen2 harness is ordered so no turning back now :wink:
Deiv 8)
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Thanks for that one .
But I´m afraid , that there are a lot of things that need exact answere :D
Like - will the gen1 lights,controls , sensors work with new gen2 harness ??? But that I can figure out myself also I think.
What about this cam sensor and generator stator issue - what parts exactly needed to change or modify ???
Where to connect MAP sensor and what part # it is - where to buy it ???
What to do with gen2 sensor connectors that gen1 motor doesn`t have , like oil picup,secondary throttles,secondary injectors ...... ???
Lots of stuff for me to find out :lol: But I have the best possible help I think :tu:
Gen2 harness is ordered so no turning back now :wink:
Deiv 8)
Unless you really have a great understanding of ECU editor and all of the functions of the ECU, you will likely be better off not converting the bike. It is not really trivial to do. The conversion itself isn't a big deal, but the possible troubleshooting may be more than you are into.
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Yeahh - that`s why it took me two seasons to make this decision to swap . :? Although I work as a bike mechanic for years in Honda center !!! I just don`t know much about Gen 2 .
So far I have been doing all technical stuff on my Gen1 bike myself - becides ECU Editor tuning .
But my tuner is Sami Vittaniemi in Finland / Helsinki and he has been the codeveloper of this ECU Editor with PetriK (Petri Tikkari)!!!
So I`ve got quite good help . :tu: Sami told me just to order the Gen2 Harness and ECU and he supposed to get my Busa working properly . He will be doing all the minor harness modifications and tuning !!! I just have to install the harness to the bike !!!
But I just want to get as good knowlage about all this , that I would be able to do as much work for Sami as possible .
Don`t really want to go to dyno and start messing with some major issues , that woul`d have been able to fix/prepare before , like rotor mod and cam sensor wireing or something like that !!!
Looking for MUST things to do , that needs to be done in Gen1 to gen2 swap :wink:
Thanks Deiv :)
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That`s my bike , that I´m working with : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jGevJ3FCWY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HalOWS3G4Jk
Deiv :bike:
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But my tuner is Sami Vittaniemi in Finland / Helsinki and he has been the codeveloper of this ECU Editor with PetriK (Petri Tikkari)!!!
Well you didn't mention that 8)
Just do whatever he says and it will work just fine.
Only thing you will really need to do is grind a tooth off of the crank rotor and swap out a cam sensor, either an 07-08 gsxr1000 in your valve cover or swap to a gen2 hayabusa cover and sensor.
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John, can one fit the Gen2 throttle bodies and air box onto a Gen1 head with a bit of work and then wire the Gen2 harness, ecu, cluster and switches onto the Gen1 bike?
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John, can one fit the Gen2 throttle bodies and air box onto a Gen1 head with a bit of work and then wire the Gen2 harness, ecu, cluster and switches onto the Gen1 bike?
Anything is possible, but swapping to a GEN2 head would be MUCH easier.
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Thanks
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I have all the stuff, air box, throttlebodies, harness, sensors, ecu.sensors, key switch . But my injectors were modded by injector clinic in fla.
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Are You willing to sell some parts or are You makeing the same swap ???
I`m interested of ECU for start .
Already got harness from Ebay.
And my plan is to use the same Gen 1 throttles and Bosch EV-14 850 cc. injectors that are currently already on the bike !!! If it turns out to be possible :)
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Got `09 year ECU from Ebay :tu: Waiting for harness and ECU to arrive . Then I can start mess with the wireing :D
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And my plan is to use the same Gen 1 throttles and Bosch EV-14 850 cc. injectors that are currently already on the bike !!! If it turns out to be possible :)
Certainly is possible to do that.
I have 1000cc injectors on my gen1 tb's, good enough to run 7.35 and make just under 550rwhp with a shinko tire on it.
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Jeahh I read Your thread in ecuhacking forum :wink: Impressive numbers on You`r bike :tu:
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Hy - happy holidays :tu:
Gen 2 ECU and harness arrived and slowly getting started with the swap .
Need to do the TIP OWER SENSOR eliminator . As I understand it needs 60-64 kOhms resistor , but between what wires ??? Between red and black - right ???
Deiv :)
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Hy - happy holidays :tu:
Gen 2 ECU and harness arrived and slowly getting started with the swap .
Need to do the TIP OWER SENSOR eliminator . As I understand it needs 60-64 kOhms resistor , but between what wires ??? Between red and black - right ???
Deiv :)
You can just eliminate it from within the ECU Editor software. (Also secondary injector fault and ISC fault can be eliminated). THe STPS and STVA faults will remain, but they do not seem to impact anything.
Are you are using Injector Dynamics ID1000 injectors (or willing to buy a set and use them)?
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Thanks Sportbikerider :tu: I hoped , that in can be disabled with ECU Editor . Just want to make a temporary restrictor/eliminator to be installed before I make it to the dyno . I want to make as much as possible just to get it fired up at all :wink:
I am going to use "Bosch" EV-14 850 cc. injectors , "Walbro" 255 pump , "Sard" 1:1 fuel regulator
(I have here 98 octane pump fuel ) that are currently on the bike for last two seasons and work greate :tu:
Greate news about secondarys,STPS,STVA,ISC and stuff disable possibility :tu:
Did You connected the ID 1000 injectors to the primaris wires on Gen 2 harness ??? Have to connect my EV-14 injectors also somewhere :D
Today I take a good look at the Gen1 gauges and Gen2 harness also and most of the wires seem to be possible to connect if I rewire the connector :thumb: Still some wire colors are a secret to me like data wire and taco wire - does it use the same impulses as Gen1 :|
Also I don`t know what to do with the fan switching - Gen1 is useing separate temperature switch in radiator hose,but Gen2 uses engine temperature sensor I belive and ECU turns on the fans :wink:
Handlebar wires seem to be quite easy to rewire :thumb:
Lets see how it turns out 8)
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Rail and EV-14 injectors
(http://www.upload.ee/thumb/3796361/DSCN1008.JPG) (http://www.upload.ee/image/3796361/DSCN1008.JPG)
(http://www.upload.ee/thumb/3796370/DSCN1009.JPG) (http://www.upload.ee/image/3796370/DSCN1009.JPG)
And one from last dyno session at Samis dyno in Helsinki / Finland :tu:
(http://www.upload.ee/thumb/3796383/DSCN0067.JPG) (http://www.upload.ee/image/3796383/DSCN0067.JPG)
Regards Deiv :D
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Injectors connect to the primary connections.
I don't have any gauges or fans on my bike at all so I cannot help you there.
Since you probably only have one fan, you can hook it up just as a GEN2 with your temp switch in the radiator if you like or run it off of the ECU controlled fan relay. You can also wire one to the radiator switch and add a second controlled by the ECU if you like.
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Thanks :tu:
Few pic. to remind this year :D
Alastaro/Finland FHRA/EDRA Finals 2013 ( Got there the best time so far 9.279 / 255KPH )
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.565208400182524.1073741841.292828577420509&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=565209440182420&set=a.565208400182524.1073741841.292828577420509&type=3&theater
https://plus.google.com/photos/103950832502306682374/albums/5919453629455245393#photos/103950832502306682374/albums/5919453629455245393
Maby faster next year :bike:
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Hey
Does anybody know , can I use Gen1 coolant temp. sensor ??? Connectors are different , but the service manuals say , that the sensors work with the same values --- maby I can just rewire old connector to new harness ???
And Gen1 TP sensor is OK with Gen2 harness when rewired - right ??? Service manuals show the same values to both !!!
Deiv :D
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Hey
Does anybody know , can I use Gen1 coolant temp. sensor ??? Connectors are different , but the service manuals say , that the sensors work with the same values --- maby I can just rewire old connector to new harness ???
And Gen1 TP sensor is OK with Gen2 harness when rewired - right ??? Service manuals show the same values to both !!!
Deiv :D
Yes to both.
The intake air temp sensor is different. I don't use an air temp sensor on my application. If you are going to use one, I'd go with a GEN2.
If you look through my very long post on the ECU Hack forum, I list all of the values of the sensors somewhere in it.
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Thank You Sportsbikerider :tu:
I saw this post of Your`s about sensors values table on ecuhacking forum - this all thread there is like a " HolyBible" for me :ntwrthy: But it was really a long time ago , thatswhy I wanted to confirm .
Fortunatelly the Gen2 harness came with the intake air temp.sensor - so I´m good with that one :thumb:
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I received my 08 harness, gauges, and hand controls from RCC last week to start the conversion on my 00 yellow bike, woohoo. :thumb:
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Great :D Welcome to the club :thumb: All discussions here on this topic please - we do have the same goal :tu:
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Got the main harness installed :tu: Left and right controls and instrument panel/gauges rewired !!!
Still few minor things to rewire or remove from Gen2 harness and install again water-meth.injection kit and all the other additional switches/relays/electrics :id:
Deiv 8)
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Is there any difference which way the crank sensor wires are connected in the connector ??? :?
Deiv :)
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Connect the Blue on the sensor to the green in the harness, and the green on the sensor to the blue on the harness.
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From where I have to take the vacuum/boost signal to GM 3 bar. MAP sensor - from plenum or from under the throttle blades ??? :wink:
Deiv
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Exactly as the stock sensor was plumbed
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Thanks Greg
Never seen under a Gen2 tank so I checked from repair manual and it shows , that from throttels :thumb:
PS !!! How is your swap progress ???
Deiv :D
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Hei
I started the bike today with Gen2 electrics and it fired up quite easely . At the moment it runs very bad under 5000 rpm and has got no idle - and backfires a lot to the throttles and to the exhaust !!!
I tried to start the bike without intake plenum on the bike and with stock exhaust - no turbo on the bike .
But past 5000 rpm. it revvs quite good !!!!
The engine coolant temp gauge is not working properly also with Gen1 clusters !!!
And I think the fan switching from Gen2 ECU is not working properly - atleast Gen1 stock sensor was first to switch the fan on !!! I jumped the fan for in case from relay during testing . I think I will use the Gen1 sensor to switch the fan relay for to be sure :?
The FI light is blinking constantly and on Gen1 clusters on little upper displey it shows several fault codes:
(The Gen2 ECU is already "on the table pre flashed" to eliminate all the not needed sensors :thumb:)
C25 - ignition signal #2
C31 - GPS signal ( I put new Gen2 GPS sensor in )
C33 - primary injector signal #2
C35 - primary injector signal #4
C41 - fuel pump control system ( I use the original fuel pump wires to switch the extra relay to the pump strait from battery voltage . Like I had it with Gen1 ECU )
C42 - ignition switch signal (immobilizer)
All the other stuff is OK !!! : )
At least it starts - little progress .
Deiv :wink:
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I use the GSXR 1000 cam pos.sensor with Gen2 ECU - does it matter which way the sensors wires should direct - left or right :? I read from some topic , that the wires should point to left (frame side ) . And the sensor picup tip has a cut edge .
Deiv :)
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Try adding more fuel down low. Mine was backfiring alot when I first started it and I ended up needing to add more fuel.
Mine only has the lower injectors though (ID1000's) , no secondaries.
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I`ll try that :thumb:
I also use only 4 lower injectors - Bosch EV-14 850 cc.
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Success :D
Increased fuel pressure a little ( I can`t flash the ECU myself) and it stopped backfireing :tu:
Also I turned the GSXR 1000 cam sensor around (wires point to the right now ) and bike runs OK .
PS !!! Interesting thing is,that when the cam sensor was installed wrong , the bike was sputtering a lot and was throwing a lot of blue engine oil smoke from exhaust , but now it`s not doing that anymore :thumb: Runs quite clean and revvs good and is not blue smokeing :D
How can the engine burn oil , when just not working smoothly :?
Now will install the turbo/plenum/up-pies and other stuff on and up to the dyno ASAP :bike:
Deiv 8)
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Glad you got it going.
The oil smoke could just be from sitting and never getting it very hot to burn it off.
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Overall runs great with Gen2 ECU/harness :D
MAP based fuelling is totally different - bike runs so smoooooth :tu:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYN_HQuBG9U
http://www.upload.ee/image/3972424/DSCN1518.JPG
Still need Gen2 clusters cuz the coolant temp. gauge is not working and fuel level and tacco are acting up also sometimes :? And the FI codes appear and disappear during rideing :|
And when it gets really hot,like in traffic jam,then it statrs to lean up a little while in idle and won`t revv up so good anymore. But as soon as it gets to free traffic - all is well again :bike:
http://nagi.ee/photos/arendaja/23304083/in-set/385231/
Deiv
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Never realy look into the mods section
My gen1-2 conversion works great , its the management i used during the 2012 LSR season at Bonneville getting me both scta and FIM records in the 250's
using gen 1 head and secondarys in the plenum, modified gen 1 rotor , now with a hi output stator and reg
Going to start another conversion on a similar setup real soon :D
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Still in search for Gen2 clusters/speedoblock - if somebody has a idea where to get one with good price , then I´m opened for offers :D
And I wrapped the MAP sensor into heat resistant wrapping and bike runs OK even when it`s getting hot !!! Maby the problem is, that I have a really cheap GM 3 bar. map sensor replica :?
What sensors are You guys useing on Your bikes - replicas or only GM original part ???
Part # or link of the good MAP sensor would be good info :thumb:
Deiv :bike:
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Keep haunting ebay for the gauges
they fit on the gen 1 bracket with minimal mods, but you will need to cutout some of the bracket backing before bolting them down , you will see what needs cutting or spacing up when you get them
never had an issue i noticed with any map sensors, but i do avoid the cheapest
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OZ did you have any big problems using the secondary injectors in the plenum? I have everything needed except stator for my gen1 to gen2 electronics conversion. Running an RCC billet a/w with 1000cc secondaries and stock primaries. PM me if you could OZ for any pics or any added tidbits to help watch out for would be great!
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OZ did you have any big problems using the secondary injectors in the plenum? I have everything needed except stator for my gen1 to gen2 electronics conversion. Running an RCC billet a/w with 1000cc secondaries and stock primaries. PM me if you could OZ for any pics or any added tidbits to help watch out for would be great!
You can use a gen1 rotor and stator. Just need to remove a tooth from the rotor to make it 24-2 instead of 24-1
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Ok i knew about the removing a gear, thought i still needed a gen 2 stator! Sweet the helps sportbikeryder
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Ok i knew about the removing a gear, thought i still needed a gen 2 stator! Sweet the helps sportbikeryder
The stator and crank pickup are compatible. You will need a different cam sensor though as the GEN1 is a VR sensor and the GEN2 is a Hall Effect.
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yep already have a gen2 cover and sensor with gen2 cams when i go to install everything! waiting for r1 rims to get back from getting polished and i have my forks torn apart so i can lower them. isnt there an easy button i can push and everything will be poooof, done?! lol
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Plenum secondarys worked great, just changed out and extended the injector clips to suit my Deka injectors on the secondarys and put Kehin injector clips on the primarys and tuned from there
pm me your email and i will send my map as a starter, my secondarys are much smaller being 650cc but you can adjust from where they stage in
and my motor is 1407, again not perfect for your combo but a starting point
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I know this is a old post but I need some help. I have a gen 1 motor with all the Gen 2 conversion. I have gen 1 395 385 cams with a brocks offset pin degreed at 106 108. I have a 08 gsxr cam sensor with wires towards frame. Gen 2 rotor and stator . All gen 2 sensors. 3 bar map sensor. The bike has a gt35 turbo with a ultra plenum and 80lb secondary injectors. Stock gen 1 primary injectors. We are having hell for some reason getting this bike to run decent and make some power. ..it will free rev great but under a load it just breaks up and runs like poo. Any help please and thank you very much.
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Sorry forgot to put it's throwing a cam code for some reason and it's acting like the ignition is bouncing under a load. We checked all wires and all connections.
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As I mentioned, The cam signal needs to be right. If you cant get it to work, you will need to put an oscilloscope on it. If you don't have a logger, you have about a 2% chance you are going to figure it out. Otherwise you are just guessing on what the problem is.
If it is throwing a cam code, it isn't right. Fix that first.
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Put my motor on a scope today and it showed that the dwell time was to long but the trailing edge was damn near right on...how do I shorten up dwell time
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I ground the width of the pin to ~.155" on mine when I was setting it up.
That said, the scope trace that Greg sent me looked very similar to a stock GEN2 trace. When I was doing mine, I didn't have a GEN2 to check. May have just been coincidence with mine as I was modifying multiple things at once to try to get it to run.
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i did the same with my 750 conversion initially , ground it to std pin size at the tip , but maintained the offset
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Soon we will also join in this swap club! :)
Recently we installed a similar system for suzuki rf 1117 motorcycle start. But need adjustment.
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Deiv
Hi mate!
You have solved the problem with the disconnection of STVA and STPS?
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you need to get a stv assembly and connect to remove the fault code
i have 1 laying against the starter motor on my gen 1 , takes a short shaft between the 2 parts to work
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I mean, how to get rid of all STVA and sensor? And it does not receive an error. :mrgreen:
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I don´t have the TSVA sensor or motor on the bike - I even cut the connectors from harness . The bike shows the Fi codes for those two missing parts but that doesn`t affect engine work cuz they are disabled in ECU . The FI light doesn´t bother me . But if You want to remowe the codes also then You probably need to connect the motor and sensor and leave those under the tank somewhere like was told few posts back :tu:
And I got the bike running as it shold finally :tu: Had some troubles but got them sorted out eventually :D
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This way I know.
I would like to delete these sensors and errors :)
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I think it can´t be done as You expect it this way,but I may be wrong though :?
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Has anyone tried putting gen 2 cams in a gen 1 head? What sensor and valve cover combo would be necessary with that? Is the offset pin still needed?
Edit- went ahead and bought Web gen 2 cams and a valvecover with cam sensor
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offset pin is dependant on your cam timing , you need to check it and use if needed , i have a couple of gen 1 bikes running fine with gen 2 cams and no offset pin, and one with gen 1 cams no offset pin
Gen 2 cams need the bearings flipped to get the locating clip in the right position
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lots of time passed since this Gen1 to Gen2 electric swap of mine . Still I have to say,that this is the best mod for my turboBusa . Bike has been running good and has been faster and faster every year . I have put better/stronger in it every winter and tuned it several times in Sami Vittaniemi s dyno . He has been total "fast bikes guru" for me and I have had so mutch help and info from him,that I can not thank him enaff I suppose like - never :wink:
Bike has different color few years now .It is in my everyday street use,utilies all the stock stuff,mirrors,lights etc. and has best 1/4 time so far 8.8 sec. about 265km/h !!! Boost is at 1.5 bar. and it made 350 engine hp. last time at dyno.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZuPI-QGRG4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I3E-3BUxjk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6PDZgLiIQ0
Waiting for new season !!!
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Here is a tested and working solution to permanently eliminate the STV sensor and motor so,that the FI is OFF and all works as stock .
1x REGULAATTORI SMD 0,8A +3,3V SOT223 [LD1117S33C SMD] 1 0,97e
4x PALAMATON VASTUS 0,5W: 15 ohm [FRES 05W 15R] 4 0,32e (*paraller connection 2x15ohm=7.5ohm)
STP MAP should be open (100) in every step
https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/u/0/?ui=2&ik=1fd80bd784&view=att&th=155a1725b51d8d63&attid=0.1&disp=safe&realattid=ii_155a171556a6680f&zw&saddbat=ANGjdJ9EXI3uzqkwQY8tlgq8ltVlz_baDp0YQ6uRplvnbRxzKwCBdXR3XNasTASHo8gJ8ySNvxFX987Uj-l3A3C4O24fByMC-woFOPDy4aCEBlpwNtcGqEJEEJFxD7LhmVZ6Ddrk8DA7ICqFmcl9KMStYvnzyTustkrhfS9_SPWkKc2SjwF_8cEt2y7sTOdxe0oPNYlBMQgZsCGBpe9hT7_plftoQejmHB_4ZALPGN2ETu5MoHtrrID9cuwksW5NmSNlN192kv_dvR7eVCitr9yH0xoatN0zoHv2BLZKZw9rfqQJDS-aRA7QvK8e6wlAsf0Ip3FpcBK5wjfPLJVJrkdjwhFjAwARBgbiYmU9gtWeMp0IJhEdoidlSF2x2JW_zFAI_sIjbyvKSb9LLMT3WPKF_oV6i715MlLYdNKNGG3igAeglTAXyNjQuGvjsyEqj4M1MB76OVFsYdRVVizc12_-bbF25KGrysJWBVUfasde_EhrPeNunIe1s0zzMt6xU2ao85O9qdfMkBnR6Z5uF-717Y1-Jx7yYPf8ndnnBM7QEMfF6G2bsUesRCSHG0b368WP2vIvrlbG6pczaFmuOz8esaGvaI3fEDl2L_wVUg
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Great to see you've figured out the STV error. During the initial work on my old bike we were not able to sucessful eliminate the error flag in software.
My bike has long since been changed, but we still do use the turbo software on some turbo bikes that don't get standalone ecus
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Now STP can be disable in WRT.
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So it`s even simpler now - right ? :wink:
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So what would be the advantage to this over a PCV-TPI with ID1000's?
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Hello
I am looking to do this gen2 ecu conversion too. I have read thread many times.
So these are the parts I need from GEN2?
- ECU
- Wiring harness
- RH bar controls
- Speedometer cluster
- GSXR/gen2 cam position sensor
- Airbox temp and vacuum map sensor
And i need to:
- Gring one tooth (the correct one) of the flywheel
- Reverse wires from crack sensor (green and blue wire)
- Disable STVP, secondary injectors
Questions:
- Do i need gen2 gear position sensor, or can I use gen1?
- Do i need Brocks cam pin re-locator for my stock gen1 cams?