SuzukiHayabusa.org
GENERAL => MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE => Topic started by: toledoupsguy on June 10, 2015, 05:29:10 PM
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For you guys running nitrous I hope you don't mind a kawasaki guy asking a few questions.
Are you running it from first gear on or activating it further down the track?
At wilmington I never checked at the VP truck but I'm guessing there wasn't any refilling station. Are you bringing a bunch of bottles or are you refilling it yourself from a big tank? And along the same lines how many runs can you get in on a tank?
Thanks
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I activated in second or third gear on old system. New system trying first or second, still working on it.
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Amount of spray and size of bottle has an effect on how long you are in the nitrous. The later you wait in the run to start spraying, the less mph gain you will see. However, the longer you spray the less bottle pressure (less nitrous) you have at the fast end, slowing you down. It's a balance. In addition, EGTs always rise during the entire run on nitrous. Time wise, the longer your spray and bigger the shot, the greater chances you will heat the exhaust valves up enough to detonate. Once again, it's a balance.
I have on hand multiple bottles when I race. The number of runs per bottle is based on your shot size, bottle size, and how long your spray. And once you drop below 1/2 full, it is near impossible to keep any reasonable amount of pressure on the fast end.
What size shot? And bottle?
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great info RansomT! :thumb:
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+1 for Ransom. On the ZX10 I sprayed in 5th and 6th, and refilled the bottle after every pass using a mothership bottle. The nitrous guys at Bonneville run HUGE bottles to minimize pressure loss through the run.
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How much you can use in a bottle is based on the way you are tuned on N20. The longer you are on the button, the colder your bottle gets and cold bottles have less pressure. We tuned based on 750 to 800 PSI, the bottle pressure after spraying... yes you will have to waste a little if you are serious and test... test... test... before you run any through your motor. Know what you need to put in the motor and then test to insure that is what you are doing. N20 use based on weight and mixture with fuel will keep your motor alive. Unless you have it backed with a nitrogen push you will only be able to use about 80% if you tune that way. We kept our bottles cold until use and put a jacket on it to keep it cold. The only consistent way to use it is in liquid form.
The rule of thumb is 1 lb per minute is 10 HP... when mixed with the correct amount of fuel. The correct amount of fuel is 5:1 if you want to be rich and 6:1 if you want to be lean... stoichiometric is around 9:1 and will burn your engine down in microseconds. The most power is made at about 6:1 but if you plan to be on the button for 20 seconds, I would probably be at 5.5:1. Very little power is lost but your engine will appreciate the extra gas. N20 should only be used at WOT and the engine should be properly tuned to run extended periods at WOT before N20 if added in it's correct ratio.
I think my max time on the button was around 56 seconds, the motor lived until we increased the power level beyond the ability of the rods to stay straight.
I would suggest when you exceed the motor's base HP with N20 you will drastically shorten its life. :hys:
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Thank you for the replies. Ransom I really can't answer that question as I've only just started to think about spraying. Something about being so close yet so far away from the magic 200mph in the mile has me considering it.
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How much you can use in a bottle is based on the way you are tuned on N20. The longer you are on the button, the colder your bottle gets and cold bottles have less pressure. We tuned based on 750 to 800 PSI, the bottle pressure after spraying... yes you will have to waste a little if you are serious and test... test... test... before you run any through your motor. Know what you need to put in the motor and then test to insure that is what you are doing. N20 use based on weight and mixture with fuel will keep your motor alive. Unless you have it backed with a nitrogen push you will only be able to use about 80% if you tune that way. We kept our bottles cold until use and put a jacket on it to keep it cold. The only consistent way to use it is in liquid form.
The rule of thumb is 1 lb per minute is 10 HP... when mixed with the correct amount of fuel. The correct amount of fuel is 5:1 if you want to be rich and 6:1 if you want to be lean... stoichiometric is around 9:1 and will burn your engine down in microseconds. The most power is made at about 6:1 but if you plan to be on the button for 20 seconds, I would probably be at 5.5:1. Very little power is lost but your engine will appreciate the extra gas. N20 should only be used at WOT and the engine should be properly tuned to run extended periods at WOT before N20 if added in it's correct ratio.
I think my max time on the button was around 56 seconds, the motor lived until we increased the power level beyond the ability of the rods to stay straight.
I would suggest when you exceed the motor's base HP with N20 you will drastically shorten its life. :hys:
Methanol as fuel?
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Thank you for the replies. Ransom I really can't answer that question as I've only just started to think about spraying. Something about being so close yet so far away from the magic 200mph in the mile has me considering it.
2.5 lb bottle spraying a 50 HP shot, 3-6 gear. You can make 3 passes before the volume drops too low to keep pressure.
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Methanol as fuel?
No, 110 race gas, The ratios are not the overall AFR after burn it is how much N20 and gas, by weight, that is required after your motor is properly tuned on just gas. Knowing what you are putting in will help you prevent failures. We burned the motor down several times on manufacturers jet combo numbers. The drag race numbers were a little dangerous for a long button push... if I remember that far back the jet recommendations actually weighed out at 7:1, way to lean.
Recommend using quality oversize solenoids for any push over 20 seconds... Had the ones that the manufacturer recommended for the 1 liter freeze open... that did not go well :eek:
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Stainless, no bottle heater? I ran one with pressure switch so heater came on if pressure dropped below threshhold.
Big yes to quality solenoids!
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No Jim, we ran the bottle cold, tuned for 775 PSI, it keeps itself cold so it is easy to use that. The pressure doesn't matter if you plan for it and the cold/lower pressure keeps the N20 Liquid so you get the benefit of expanding gasses and high O2 if you give it enough fuel.
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Methanol as fuel?
No, 110 race gas, The ratios are not the overall AFR after burn it is how much N20 and gas, by weight, that is required after your motor is properly tuned on just gas. Knowing what you are putting in will help you prevent failures. We burned the motor down several times on manufacturers jet combo numbers. The drag race numbers were a little dangerous for a long button push... if I remember that far back the jet recommendations actually weighed out at 7:1, way to lean.
Recommend using quality oversize solenoids for any push over 20 seconds... Had the ones that the manufacturer recommended for the 1 liter freeze open... that did not go well :eek:
O.K. I've heard of calculations like this based on weight amounts, just never did the math to figure it out. Doing a dry shot, like I do, I've just learned to run "more" richer the bigger the shot....and switching to ethanol didn't hurt either :wink:
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About ten years ago, WAYNE POLLACK and I won
a couple of ECTA #1 plates with the
Wayne-built Hayabusa called "The Blaster."
Over two (2) seasons of multiple passes
every race day for six (6) races per year.
The bike put six(6) folks over 200 mph at Maxton.
The engine was TOTALLY stock, with a 120HP shot of nitrous,
with 260 RWHP, using C-14 and enriching with methanol.
NO engine repairs in three (3) seasons.
Spark plugs lasted the entire racing career
of the bike, and were never changed.
Once the bike was set-up for nitrous, the
mapping, timing and valves were never
adjusted over three (3) racing seasons.
Nitrous done right can be very powerful,
and very fast for a minimum of expense.
Done wrong, it gets very expensive in a real hurry !
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I would reccomend finding one of the replacement
STEEL seat-support assemblies, and mounting
a 10 pound bottle.
Since using nitrous moves the bike to the "fuel" class:
1) Just run methanol or E85 for fuel.
2) Increase compression to maybe 16-1 in the N/A classes.
3) Build the motor for the expected 320-400 HP.
4) Methanol is very friendly to a turbo bike, so:
5) Build a 600-680 rwhp turbo bike on methanol,
and give it a 120hp nitrous "hit" in the top three gears.
6) Use a 20 tooth front sprocket, and use an
aftermarket rear wheel so you can run a 33-35 tooth rear sprocket.
7) With proper riding, ballast and aero, the bike should
run 280-300 mph in the mile for
less than the cost of a used corvette.
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"You will shoot your eye out"....
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"Hey man.......What kind of slurry
you poring into that engine, anyway....?"
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It's certainly infinitely easier to talk about recipes that "should "
result in what hasn't ever been done before by a long shot
"A Christmas Story" can be a guide to the emotions/scenes that may be enjoyed
Strong caution coming to fruition ie you'll shoot your eye out
curiosity of just not believing the hype just a little bigger nitrous jet.... tongue to flag pole ...
Oooooooh F x c k descriptor ... Losing dad's Lugnuts
Feeling compelled to pummel someone one or thing relentlessly ... Beating up the bully
Crying ...internal and External
Really bad taste in your mouth.... Soap scene
Perfectly prepared gem blown apart for all the world to see.... Golden brown turkey ripped to shreds by wild dogs
All kidding aside ....nitrous ......it will have you laughing hysterically..
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:D :D :D
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All kidding aside ....nitrous ......it will have you laughing hysterically..
Joe is also warning you to NOT
plumb the bottle into the helmet....
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All kidding aside ....nitrous ......it will have you laughing hysterically..
Joe is also warning you to NOT
plumb the bottle into the helmet....
now you tell us.... :)
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Never changed a $3.95 plug??? C'mon!!! With NOS too??? for 2 seasons?? Let me guess never changed the oil too. You had to pull the plugs at some time, so why not replace them while your there?
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Thank you for the replies. Ransom I really can't answer that question as I've only just started to think about spraying. Something about being so close yet so far away from the magic 200mph in the mile has me considering it.
2.5 lb bottle spraying a 50 HP shot, 3-6 gear. You can make 3 passes before the volume drops too low to keep pressure.
For some reason I never get an email saying there are replies. That answer I can understand, thank you.