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GENERAL => MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE => Topic started by: fatnslow on August 05, 2015, 02:06:36 PM
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Hey guys I noticed looking over some vids that there are a few cars going over 270 at the mile. Crazy I wouldn't have thought a car could run that speed in that distance. I figured bikes had them covered for at least that but I guess not.
Any how my question is if geared correctly could a prostreet setup power wise come close? Those guys are running over 200 in a 1/4. Just wondering probably stupid question but have time on my hands to think to much lol.
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Interesting questions......
The Bike drag guys have been exceeding 250
in the quarter mile for some years, so they would
seem to have the horsepoer and traction to
easilly do 300 in the mile........
The car guys have been beating 300 mph in the quarter
for many years, and for safety reasons have been "backed off'
to "only 1000 feet, and STILL go over 300 mph.
I watched a drag car go over 324 mph @ the Goliad mile
a few years ago, and had a squint at his data.
He was full power for MAYBE 2.0 seconds on the entire 324 run.....
I suppose the REAL questions are:
1) Why are bikes not FASTER ?
2) Why are cars so SLOW
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Good points . Maybe bikes need more power to push to higher speeds. Most people believe motorcycle aerodynamics are good but when compared to a modern sports car they suck. It would be expensive to create body work with better aerodynamics but just as bad as trying to make more hp.
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Interesting questions......
The Bike drag guys have been exceeding 250
in the quarter mile for some years, so they would
seem to have the horsepoer and traction to
easilly do 300 in the mile........
The car guys have been beating 300 mph in the quarter
for many years, and for safety reasons have been "backed off'
to "only 1000 feet, and STILL go over 300 mph.
I watched a drag car go over 324 mph @ the Goliad mile
a few years ago, and had a squint at his data.
He was full power for MAYBE 2.0 seconds on the entire 324 run.....
I suppose the REAL questions are:
1) Why are bikes not FASTER ?
2) Why are cars so SLOW
I think I can answer the bike question (why 250mph 1/4 mile bikes can't run 300+ in the mile): it's a combination of 2 things. 1) Those ~250 mph 1/4 mile trap speeds have been done on extremely well prepped tracks, so sticky that you have a hard time walking on them. How many 1 mile tracks are prepped? (zero is the answer). How important is track prep you ask? I recently tuned a 400+ HP drag bike that had run deep into the 7s. The owner decided to run it at our local track for a test/tune just to show his local buddies how well it ran. The bike spun all the way down the track ran low 9s.
2) It's about drive (how the suspension works in harmony with the rear tire). It's very difficult to "drive" for a mile and get traction without tons of practice with suspension/tire adjustments. We, LSR, don't get enough seat time to do such.
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I am going to yell like Scott! :hys: That was a jet car that went 324.
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Hey Fred, I thought
YELLING WAS BOLD IN ALL CAPS......
LIKE DENNIS USED TO DO......
Anyway, yes, it WAS a jet car.
The jet cars that run in NHRA are restricted
by the NHRA to speeds LOWER than the Top Fuel cars,
since the NHRA doesn't want to "ruin the show."
The Jet car driver told me privately that if he had used
more afterburner, and the whole mile, he
probably could have broken 400 mph.
He had been warned by the NHRA that
if he did than, his license would be canceled FOREVER.....
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Just messing with you Scott. :vl:
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Good points . Maybe bikes need more power to push to higher speeds. Most people believe motorcycle aerodynamics are good but when compared to a modern sports car they suck. It would be expensive to create body work with better aerodynamics but just as bad as trying to make more hp.
The fast guys on bikes have more power than they can use. Bill had to turn his engine down to go faster. It is very difficult to balance traction versus wheelies at those power levels. A lot of Bill's success was due to him being extremely methodical and analytical. Anybody can datalog, but the trick is to be able to decipher the data and make the proper adjustments. He was head and shoulder above anyone else in pavement LSR.
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Any how my question is if geared correctly could a prostreet setup power wise come close? Those guys are running over 200 in a 1/4. Just wondering probably stupid question but have time on my hands to think to much lol.
Power wise...yes. They're too long as is, and you can forget about the ones with the side mount turbos and intercoolers because of the obvious.
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Good points . Maybe bikes need more power to push to higher speeds. Most people believe motorcycle aerodynamics are good but when compared to a modern sports car they suck. It would be expensive to create body work with better aerodynamics but just as bad as trying to make more hp.
The fast guys on bikes have more power than they can use. Bill had to turn his engine down to go faster. It is very difficult to balance traction versus wheelies at those power levels. A lot of Bill's success was due to him being extremely methodical and analytical. Anybody can datalog, but the trick is to be able to decipher the data and make the proper adjustments. He was head and shoulder above anyone else in pavement LSR.
Thank you that was kinda what I was wondering . Didn't know they had power to spare, I figured by half track they had everything it could make in it.
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Any how my question is if geared correctly could a prostreet setup power wise come close? Those guys are running over 200 in a 1/4. Just wondering probably stupid question but have time on my hands to think to much lol.
Power wise...yes. They're too long as is, and you can forget about the ones with the side mount turbos and intercoolers because of the obvious.
OK thanks I figure the top prostreet bikes make North of 600 hp and are most likely using most of it. Not to sound stupid but I guess the top LSR guys aren't just throwing every bit of hp they have to the ground to go fast.
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Yeah we dont have a big slick and a prepped trac so sticky you will walk out your tennies. Try running one of those slicks for a mile or mile and a half.
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Any how my question is if geared correctly could a prostreet setup power wise come close? Those guys are running over 200 in a 1/4. Just wondering probably stupid question but have time on my hands to think to much lol.
Power wise...yes. They're too long as is, and you can forget about the ones with the side mount turbos and intercoolers because of the obvious.
OK thanks I figure the top prostreet bikes make North of 600 hp and are most likely using most of it. Not to sound stupid but I guess the top LSR guys aren't just throwing every bit of hp they have to the ground to go fast.
I'll bet the fast LSR guys are putting down every bit of the power they can TO THE GROUND to go fast. There's a very big difference between putting down a lot of HP on a VERY WELL prepared VERY sticky track for the full length of the 1/4 mile vice a generally unprepared racing surface - even if asphalt or concrete.
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Any how my question is if geared correctly could a prostreet setup power wise come close? Those guys are running over 200 in a 1/4. Just wondering probably stupid question but have time on my hands to think to much lol.
Power wise...yes. They're too long as is, and you can forget about the ones with the side mount turbos and intercoolers because of the obvious.
OK thanks I figure the top prostreet bikes make North of 600 hp and are most likely using most of it. Not to sound stupid but I guess the top LSR guys aren't just throwing every bit of hp they have to the ground to go fast.
I'll bet the fast LSR guys are putting down
every bit of the power they can TO THE GROUND to go fast.
I think this is probably true.
HOWEVER
1) The tires that can be expected to GO 300 mph are small
and have (relative to "wrinkle wall" slicks) very little traction.
2) The tires that may have good traction - like drag
slicks - would disintegrate at sustained high speeds.
3) Right now, it is generally thought the reason
Bill Warner died 2 years ago was a tire failure.
No easy answers..........
To go twice the speed takes more than four
times the power, which the tire must transmit.
The difference between 260 mph (which my riders
used to do all the time) and 300 mph is
probably at least NINE times the risk.
NOBODY has gone over 300 MPH
on a sit-on bike more than once,
AND lived...........
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Was it the tire or the carbon...
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Tom, no one knows what caused the accident. It is all speculation. Bill hit one of the concrete landing lights at over 250mph. The bike was taken to Bills parents house and as far as I know It is in the trailer in his parents back yard. It has never really been thouroghly inspected .
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Tom, no one knows what caused the accident. It is all speculation. Bill hit one of the concrete landing lights at over 250mph. The bike was taken to Bills parents house and as far as I know It is in the trailer in his parents back yard. It has never really been thouroghly inspected .
:thumb: no one will ever know and no one will ever top what he did.
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What he said!! :D
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Tom, no one knows what caused the accident. It is all speculation. Bill hit one of the concrete landing lights at over 250mph. The bike was taken to Bills parents house and as far as I know It is in the trailer in his parents back yard. It has never really been thouroghly inspected .
:thumb: no one will ever know and no one will ever top what he did.
Actually, a professional accident reconstruction
has been done, and we know a whole lot
about what happened.
With photo's
It's just not published.....
Aroostock County knows why.....
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Tom, no one knows what caused the accident. It is all speculation. Bill hit one of the concrete landing lights at over 250mph. The bike was taken to Bills parents house and as far as I know It is in the trailer in his parents back yard. It has never really been thouroghly inspected .
:thumb: no one will ever know and no one will ever top what he did.
Actually, a professional accident reconstruction
has been done, and we know a whole lot
about what happened.
With photo's
It's just not published.....
Aroostock County knows why.....
It would be of great benefit to all of us who race, especially the the real fast guys/girls as to what happened, why, and what can be done to prevent this in the future. I'm sure that Guy Caputo and Don Hass would be very interested...
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Tom, no one knows what caused the accident. It is all speculation. Bill hit one of the concrete landing lights at over 250mph. The bike was taken to Bills parents house and as far as I know It is in the trailer in his parents back yard. It has never really been thouroghly inspected .
:thumb: no one will ever know and no one will ever top what he did.
Actually, a professional accident reconstruction
has been done, and we know a whole lot
about what happened.
With photo's
It's just not published.....
Aroostock County knows why.....
Who is "we?"
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Tom, no one knows what caused the accident. It is all speculation. Bill hit one of the concrete landing lights at over 250mph. The bike was taken to Bills parents house and as far as I know It is in the trailer in his parents back yard. It has never really been thouroghly inspected .
:thumb: no one will ever know and no one will ever top what he did.
Actually, a professional accident reconstruction
has been done, and we know a whole lot
about what happened.
With photo's
It's just not published.....
Aroostock County knows why.....
Who is "we?"
what he said :zip:
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Okay I am gonna say something that REALLY bothers me
If we know a lot more about Bills and DaveOs accidents.....WHY the F has it not been published
aroostock county knows what good does that do to help prevent further incidents?
Same with Daveo's crash
sorry if this is off topic but really come on are these crash causes some kind of secret?
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Okay I am gonna say something that REALLY bothers me
If we know a lot more about Bills and DaveOs accidents.....WHY the F has it not been published
aroostock county knows what good does that do to help prevent further incidents?
Same with Daveo's crash
sorry if this is off topic but really come on are these crash causes some kind of secret?
I was in charge of the Professional Motorcycle
Homicide Investigation of Dave O's crash at Maxton.
The ECTA paid me to do the investigation,
and I gave them the only paper copy.
It is their intellectual property
to keep quiet or publish
They own it.
* * *
I have performed a professional homicide
investigation of Bill's accident.
I have made my own preliminary assessments,
but I need the information that Aroostock
County found at the scene.
I have asked the law enforcement agency
that investigated Bill's accident there (3)
times for the remaining information
that I need to finalize my conclusions.
They have never replied.
They know,
They ain't talking.
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BULLSHIT!
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Any how my question is if geared correctly could a prostreet setup power wise come close? Those guys are running over 200 in a 1/4. Just wondering probably stupid question but have time on my hands to think to much lol.
Power wise...yes. They're too long as is, and you can forget about the ones with the side mount turbos and intercoolers because of the obvious.
OK thanks I figure the top prostreet bikes make North of 600 hp and are most likely using most of it. Not to sound stupid but I guess the top LSR guys aren't just throwing every bit of hp they have to the ground to go fast.
I'll bet the fast LSR guys are putting down
every bit of the power they can TO THE GROUND to go fast.
I think this is probably true.
HOWEVER
1) The tires that can be expected to GO 300 mph are small
and have (relative to "wrinkle wall" slicks) very little traction.
2) The tires that may have good traction - like drag
slicks - would disintegrate at sustained high speeds.
3) Right now, it is generally thought the reason
Bill Warner died 2 years ago was a tire failure.
No easy answers..........
To go twice the speed takes more than four
times the power, which the tire must transmit.
The difference between 260 mph (which my riders
used to do all the time) and 300 mph is
probably at least NINE times the risk.
NOBODY has gone over 300 MPH
on a sit-on bike more than once,
AND lived...........
-
Okay I am gonna say something that REALLY bothers me
If we know a lot more about Bills and DaveOs accidents.....WHY the F has it not been published
aroostock county knows what good does that do to help prevent further incidents?
Same with Daveo's crash
sorry if this is off topic but really come on are these crash causes some kind of secret?
I was in charge of the Professional Motorcycle
Homicide Investigation of Dave O's crash at Maxton.
The ECTA paid me to do the investigation,
and I gave them the only paper copy.
It is their intellectual property
to keep quiet or publish
They own it.
* * *
I have performed a professional homicide
investigation of Bill's accident.
I have made my own preliminary assessments,
but I need the information that Aroostock
County found at the scene.
I have asked the law enforcement agency
that investigated Bill's accident there (3)
times for the remaining information
that I need to finalize my conclusions.
They have never replied.
They know,
They ain't talking.
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BULLSHIT!
I think you are quite right Tom.
There has never been published
a CONCLUSIVE explanation of why
Bill died so tragically a couple of years
ago, and it is about time !
My belief is that Bill would have wanted
a full and open explanation of his accident.
He made those explanations for his near-fatal accident at Beeville,
and I think we can expect that he would have wanted one
for his final accident - if only in the hope that nobody
else would suffer the same fate.
Aroostock county has one of the final pieces of the puzzle,
the police photo's and records of their post-accident investigations.
Perhaps the data from Bill's on-board data system still "lives" in the bike.
That would certainly be useful too........
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BULLSHIT!
I think you are quite right Tom.
There has never been published
a CONCLUSIVE explanation of why
Bill died so tragically a couple of years
ago, and it is about time !
My belief is that Bill would have wanted
a full and open explanation of his accident.
He made those explanations for his near-fatal accident at Beeville,
and I think we can expect that he would have wanted one
for his final accident - if only in the hope that nobody
else would suffer the same fate.
Aroostock county has one of the final pieces of the puzzle,
the police photo's and records of their post-accident investigations.
Perhaps the data from Bill's on-board data system still "lives" in the bike.
That would certainly be useful too........
wrong Tom... I don't think that you will ever see the data from Bills bike. How much do you charge to investigate these accidents that you speak of?
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wrong Tom...
I don't think that you will ever see the data from Bills bike.
How much do you charge to investigate
these accidents that you speak of?
[/quote]
Quite right. YOU are Tom.
I am retired now, and don't do any more
motorcycle accident investigation or
reconstruction any more.
Did it for 40 years,
that's long enough.
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wrong Tom...
I don't think that you will ever see the data from Bills bike.
How much do you charge to investigate
these accidents that you speak of?
Quite right. YOU are Tom.
I am retired now, and don't do any more
motorcycle accident investigation or
reconstruction any more.
Did it for 40 years,
that's long enough.
[/quote]so you retired even though you could not finish the investigation on Bill's accident? Who hired you to investigate Bill's accident and how much did they pay you?
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Just to make sure we are on the same subject here......
In the past, Bill posted video's and pictures of his accidents,
at least one of them ( at Beeville) was almost fatal.
Bill, I believe, wanted other racers, tuners, riders and organizers
to know what went wrong, so things could be changed for the better.
I believe BILL believed in saving lives.
I started a homicide investigation of Bill's fatal Loring accident.
My work lead me into the phase of the accident reconstruction
where accident scene photographs were necessary to continue my work.
I called Aroostock County three (3) times to order
THEIR photographs of the accident. They never
followed up and sent the photo's.
I had formed certain conclusions,
many of which I published on the internet,
and here on this website.
I have made certain preliminary conclusions about Bill's crash.
KNOWING that Bill's bike is still available for examination
(Including MAYBE Bill's data aqusition files), and KNOWING
that the Aroostock photo's exist but are currently unavailable
or my examination( AND they say the pictures are digital,
on a CD, and ready for email...) makes further work a waste
of time until the rest of the information is made public....
I was not being paid to do the work, I was doing it because:
1) I wanted to know the causes of the crash, and the
possible life-saving things that we others
could do to save ourselves and others.
2) I think BILL would have wanted the same thing.
A) It is difficult to prevent FUTURE crashes if
we don't know the causes of the present crashes.
B) It is easy to read other peoples conclusions
about crashes, and take action.
C) HOWEVER, there are many of us that would like
to ALSO study the same evidence,
and form our on conclusions......
D) We are RACERS, we ALL believe that we can
build a faster bike and/or ride it faster.
E) Why would we NOT also believe we would benefit
from the seeing facts upon which OTHERS form
conclusions about why a bike crashed ?
My previous posts show that I believed Bill Warner
was one of ( if not THE) most talented and thoughtful
folks to ever compete in pavement LSR.
It just HURTS that his accident will remain unexplained......
-
Just to make sure we are on the same subject here......
In the past, Bill posted video's and pictures of his accidents,
at least one of them ( at Beeville) was almost fatal.
Bill, I believe, wanted other racers, tuners, riders and organizers
to know what went wrong, so things could be changed for the better.
I believe BILL believed in saving lives.
I started a homicide investigation of Bill's fatal Loring accident.
My work lead me into the phase of the accident reconstruction
where accident scene photographs were necessary to continue my work.
I called Aroostock County three (3) times to order
THEIR photographs of the accident. They never
followed up and sent the photo's.
I had formed certain conclusions,
many of which I published on the internet,
and here on this website.
I have made certain preliminary conclusions about Bill's crash.
KNOWING that Bill's bike is still available for examination
(Including MAYBE Bill's data aqusition files), and KNOWING
that the Aroostock photo's exist but are currently unavailable
or my examination( AND they say the pictures are digital,
on a CD, and ready for email...) makes further work a waste
of time until the rest of the information is made public....
I was not being paid to do the work, I was doing it because:
1) I wanted to know the causes of the crash, and the
possible life-saving things that we others
could do to save ourselves and others.
2) I think BILL would have wanted the same thing.
A) It is difficult to prevent FUTURE crashes if
we don't know the causes of the present crashes.
B) It is easy to read other peoples conclusions
about crashes, and take action.
C) HOWEVER, there are many of us that would like
to ALSO study the same evidence,
and form our on conclusions......
D) We are RACERS, we ALL believe that we can
build a faster bike and/or ride it faster.
E) Why would we NOT also believe we would benefit
from the seeing facts upon which OTHERS form
conclusions about why a bike crashed ?
My previous posts show that I believed Bill Warner
was one of ( if not THE) most talented and thoughtful
folks to ever compete in pavement LSR.
It just HURTS that his accident will remain unexplained......
Who hired you to do the "professional investigation" that you said you did on Bill's accident?
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Crickets...kind of nice :mrgreen: