SuzukiHayabusa.org
GENERAL => MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE => Topic started by: scott g on June 26, 2016, 09:13:38 AM
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With the Hayabusa dominating all the classes of 1350cc and over,
there is increasing attention on the 1000cc class.
Here are the fastest records world-wide in the 1000cc class:
251.718 TEAM AMO GUTHRIE (Joe Amo) 2009 @ Bonneville
245.108 SABATINELLI GUTHRIE RACING (Dean Sabatinelli) 2011 @ Maxton
243.1…..HASS-SERAFINI (Don Hass) 2013 @ Wilmington
241.128 RALPH HUDSON (Ralph Hudson) 2013 @ El Mirage
Amo, Sabatanelli and Hass have long found
a productive home in the one liter class, while
Hudson is an experienced racer
who has recently joined "the Club."
Amo has several records at Bonneville.
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I think Ralph has run 260 or so at Mojave Magnum.
Don't know if that is a record but it is pretty frickin' fast!!!
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Not sure why we grouping and comparing numbers from one way runs avg speed maintained over a 160 ft timing trap , to 2 way runs , avg speed maintained over a 5280 ft timing trap...but that's none of my business
ps Al Lamb FIM record is the fastest sit on bike two way avg record in the world...
it's not a mighty Busa...little old 1000 cc Honda at over 262....
not an exit speed...not one way ..a speed averaged over a 5280 ft speed trap ..twice ...and the engine displacement was verified ..at the meet ..
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I think Ralph has run 260 or so at Mojave Magnum.
Don't know if that is a record
but it is pretty frickin' fast!!!
Are we pretty sure that is a RECORD ?
I was just looking up the obvious RECORDS........
You know, with proclaimed displacement........
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Not sure why we grouping and comparing numbers
from one way runs avg speed maintained
over a 160 ft timing trap , to 2 way runs ,
avg speed maintained over a 5280 ft timing trap...
but that's none of my business
..
The common denominators are 1000cc,
sit-on bikes, and best record speed.[/b][/font][/size]
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ps Al Lamb FIM record is the fastest sit on
bike two way avg record in the world...
it's not a mighty Busa...little old 1000 cc Honda at over 262....
not an exit speed...not one way ..a speed averaged over a 5280 ft speed trap
..twice ...and the engine displacement was verified ..at the meet ..
Joe is right, Al Lamb is at the top of this list
with a best 1000cc record of 262.471mph at
the Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials in 2012.
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Ralph ran 262.6 at the Mojave Magnum April 12, 2015, 2003 GSXR 1000.
I'm guessing Ralph's bike is 1000cc since it probably has been pulled down at SCTA meets.
Al's achievement is impressive not only because it is averaged over a mile twice but also Al is not um... the most petite rider in the paddock.
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Al's achievement is impressive not only because
it is averaged over a mile twice but also Al is not um...
the most petite rider in the paddock.
He and I are a little "aerodynamically challenged ?"......
Also, He did it with an "M" class bike.
Others ran in the "A" classes......
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Ralph ran 262.6 at the Mojave Magnum April 12, 2015, 2003 GSXR 1000.
I'm guessing Ralph's bike is 1000cc since it probably has been pulled down at SCTA meets.
Al's achievement is impressive not only because it is averaged over a mile twice but also Al is not um... the most petite rider in the paddock.
Two words there, "guessing" and "probably" :wink:
SCTA require a capacity check to verify a record, was this speed a certified SCTA record ??
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No it is not an SCTA certified, verified record.
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ps Al Lamb FIM record is the fastest sit on bike two way avg record in the world...
it's not a mighty Busa...little old 1000 cc Honda at over 262....
There has been a lot of discussion about "2-way averages."
In "The Olde Days," than meant going one way on the track,
and turning around - properly within an hour or two - and
then running over the same ground in the opposite direction.
Some time ago, that changed to repeating the above process,
but being timed in the "same relative mile" on the return run.
example: somebody runs "The Long Course, and receives a
time slip for mile 1, mile 2 and the last mile - mile 3.
I believe that BMST - where Al Lamb was timed - can also use an extra mile, or mile 4.
For safety reasons (Cars were running out of room to stop)
The SCTA changed to making two runs (on successive days) in one direction.
SO, for many years, the SCTA records have NOT been "down and back."
Which format and distance did Al Lamb use for his fabulous 262mph Run ?
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And, just as a BTW, when Dean rode my "Anvil" to become
the "World's Fastest Stock-Bodied Motorcycle", he did that
with two BACK TO BACK and SUCCSSSIVE runs -
within LESS than 1/2 hour.........
8/1/2010 4:37 1110 Dean Sabatinelli Scott Guthrie Racing APS/BG-3001+/4 269.332 New Record
8/1/2010 4:42 1302 Joe Timney Twin Jugs Racing APS/F-3000/4 200.619 Final
8/1/2010 4:59 1110 Dean Sabatinelli Scott Guthrie Racing APS/BG-3001+/4 269.776 Final
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Al's requirement was 2 way within a 2 hr turnaround ,FIM regs and at the Shootout not BMST
there is only one timed mile that can time from either direction , but you could decide where you wanted to start the run
Most start from whatever distance they need and run towards the pits (at Zero mile ) so you can cool down or service if need (under scrutiny from officials)
I was starting at 2 1/2 miles from the timing , i think Al was about 1/2 mile further out
Reality of the motorbike turnaround it most can back to back runs, Richard Assen took a little longer as his rear radiator took longer to get back to a safe starting temp range
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Oh and records aside, some of the one way passes by the 1000cc bikes are more than impressive , Joes in particular , and Als not too bad either
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AT Bonneville wind can be a big factor, it usurally blows at some quarter from the Interstate end,, Good for your down run but can really affect your speed on the return run,, With FIM, the average of both runs is your record,,,
I would be interested to know Al's fastest run, as it would be faster than the stated record,,
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i think it was 265.xx
And we have salt , 8 miles so far :D, looks damp from the pics but at least its there
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Joe's 272.610mph full-mile time at Bonneville in 2009
is VERY impressive, and more so for a sit-on 1000cc bike
Al Lamb's 265.698mph at Bonneville in 2012 is fabulous.
Joe's speed is third (3rd) on the World's Top Speeds list,
behind only Bill Warner at 311mph
and and Eric Tabouli at 281mph.
Al's speed is 6th.
After a certain point, Horsepower and
displacement don't matter as much as before.
It becomes Riding ability and aerodynamica.........
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Great points,,, I also think too many racers are fabricating records. How many people claim to be the "Worlds Fastest" at the club events. The proper term would be an event record, or a club record where tail winds count greatly, and everybody might get the same 40 MPH tail wind.
When you talk about the real AMA and FIM sanctioned records, with a two way pass, within a time limit, and a wind speed limit , as in tail winds dont count, the course is certified flat and distance and timing rules are more stringent, in and out of impound stringently controlled, these are the real World and National Records Folks, everything else is club racing.
Search and you will fined several performance shops making false claims who have never been to the AMA/FIM event at Bonneville.
I think Ralph has run 260 or so at Mojave Magnum.
Don't know if that is a record
but it is pretty frickin' fast!!!
Are we pretty sure that is a RECORD ?
I was just looking up the obvious RECORDS........
You know, with proclaimed displacement........
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Great points,,, I also think too many racers are fabricating records. How many people claim to be the "Worlds Fastest" at the club events. The proper term would be an event record, or a club record where tail winds count greatly, and everybody might get the same 40 MPH tail wind.
When you talk about the real AMA and FIM sanctioned records, with a two way pass, within a time limit, and a wind speed limit , as in tail winds dont count, the course is certified flat and distance and timing rules are more stringent, in and out of impound stringently controlled, these are the real World and National Records Folks, everything else is club racing.
Search and you will fined several performance shops making false claims who have never been to the AMA/FIM event at Bonneville.
I think Ralph has run 260 or so at Mojave Magnum.
Don't know if that is a record
but it is pretty frickin' fast!!!
Are we pretty sure that is a RECORD ?
I was just looking up the obvious RECORDS........
You know, with proclaimed displacement........
People's concept of a "record" varies.
At the AMA/FIM, records are set with 2-way averages,
within a 2-hour period. This is the most difficult way to do it.
The SCTA /BNI (Bonneville) has a 2-run average, and a team
has a 4-hour period to maintain the bike.
Both runs are in the same direction,
but the 2nd run is on the next morning.
El Mirage (SCTA) has a 1-run rule, no back-up.
Bikes are measured.
Loring Timing has a 1-run rule, and no back-up.
Bikes are not measured, but they are examined.
Same with the ECTA.
Mojave, Texas, Colorado, Arkansas, Georgia, Nebraska,
Sand Hills, North Carolina etc races
have no measurement, no classes, etc....
(Unless "Fastest Nissan GTR..." is a record)
ALL the clubs and associations measure speeds very well,
but most no NOT verify displacement, and MOST do NOT
understand the AMA/SCTA records and rules.
In fact, the AMA often has trouble understanding and applying
their own rules. They have been observed to make mistakes like
putting a bike with a full fairing in a "naked" class.....
Some clubs do not make a distinction between nitrous and turbo (!)
IT PAYS TO KNOW WHO YOU ARE COMPETING WITH.
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Great explanation.
To preserve the sanctity of the sport some of the organization need to tighten up their rules or not issue records like pills being handed out at a hospital. I was following someone who was trying to get a great number of records, although for a good cause, after following for a bit and understanding what they were doing, they were up classing, down classing, side classing and getting multiple records in multiple classes on the same run , same bike, my only though was garbage in- garbage out. Stuff like that hurts the sport IMHO.
Take Al Lambs fantastic run in 2012, I watched him doing it, he has the 1000cc AMA National and FIM World records in the MPS aspirated class, and he is the only person who can who can legitimately make that claim, until someone is faster at the AMA/FIM event. Anyone else making a claim as worlds fastest 1000cc aspirated bike is making a false claim. May sound petty but having 10 worlds fastest in the same class is not good for the sport......
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Great points,,, I also think too many racers are fabricating records. How many people claim to be the "Worlds Fastest" at the club events. The proper term would be an event record, or a club record where tail winds count greatly, and everybody might get the same 40 MPH tail wind.
When you talk about the real AMA and FIM sanctioned records, with a two way pass, within a time limit, and a wind speed limit , as in tail winds dont count, the course is certified flat and distance and timing rules are more stringent, in and out of impound stringently controlled, these are the real World and National Records Folks, everything else is club racing.
Search and you will fined several performance shops making false claims who have never been to the AMA/FIM event at Bonneville.
x2,
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Search and you will fined several performance shops
making false claims who have never been
to the AMA/FIM event at Bonneville.
Could you post several of those ?
Be nice to see an "example."[/b][/font][/size]
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Haha No I cant do that LoL Come on Scott you know who they are.
I'v got a World Record Bike to build, time to get busy.
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Come on Scott you know who they are.
I DON'T know...I have never seen that.......
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Interesting point to note,, off "all" the siton bikes that have exceeded 250mph, only four, "Only Four", have backed their record up with a return pass in the opposite direction,, John Noonan, Richard Assen, Greg Watters, Al lamb
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This run by Jon Minonno was made in 1992, on a double engine Triumph.
He attempted to back up the record but the SCTA "denied" him
the opportunity due to "standing water" on the track.
23) Jon Minonno (sponsored by Jack Wilson) ...256.+++mph......Tri x 2....Bonneville.......1992
Many years ago, with a pair of '70's Triumph pushrod motors
World's fastest sit-on pushrod engine bike. (now Age 70+)
The #23 tells us that he is #23 on the list of World's Fastest Sit-on Riders with this path.
That list is for best official speed, doesn't have to be a record.
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Interesting point to note,, off "all" the siton bikes that have exceeded 250mph, only four, "Only Four", have backed their record up with a return pass in the opposite direction,, John Noonan, Richard Assen, Greg Watters, Al lamb
History is important !
Most of us want our "best efforts"
to be remembered with respect.
I would add JASON MC VICAR TO THE 2-WAY LIST:
MPS-BG-1350 JASON MC VICAR (Scott Guthrie Racing) Suzuki 8 /08 253.297MPH Bonneville / SCTA
AND, he has done it at least twice,
since BOTH these records are current !
MPS-BF-1650 Jason McVicar (Scott Guthrie Racing) Hayabusa 8 /07 250.135 mph Bonneville / SCTA
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Jason is #22 on "The List."
22) Jason McVicar..(Scott Guthrie)...256.+++mph...Busa....2008....Bonneville / SCTA.
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Lists, I'm confused, there are so many replys and amended LISTS :?,,
Jason at #22, where do I find this list in its entirety ???
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Yes thats another great point, and you know none of them had a great tail wind, thats the reason for a backup return run within a time limit to further unsure a true average speed with no tail wind assistance.
With the sport growing like it is, and to protect validity of those who earn the real National and World Records the LSR community should start correcting it's self so we dont have 10 people claiming to be Worlds fastest. Instead they should claim track or event fastest, or records. I personally have corrected people and explained the differences. They are usually humbled when they know the difference.
Interesting point to note,, off "all" the siton bikes that have exceeded 250mph, only four, "Only Four", have backed their record up with a return pass in the opposite direction,, John Noonan, Richard Assen, Greg Watters, Al lamb
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In the Olympics,
do the runners and swimmers
go "both ways" to "back up" a record ?
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Haha Not even a close analogy. But I'm sure they have their own set of rules to follow.
We are talking about LSR not Olympics.
In the Olympics,
do the runners and swimmers
go "both ways" to "back up" a record ?
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Haha Not even a close analogy.
But I'm sure they have their own set of rules to follow.
We are talking about LSR not Olympics.
In the Olympics,
do the runners and swimmers
go "both ways" to "back up" a record ?
WHICH set of rules do
LSR competitors follow ?
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Of course they have to follow event, track or sanctioning body rules.
Not sure what point of argument you are trying to make, my point is if someone get a greatest speed at a track or event they they have the event or track record only, and its improper to self proclaim being the Worlds Fastest unless they do it at an FIM event where true speeds, unaided by the wind, with a back up run is recorded. Thats just the way it is. Otherwise, again, you get 10 people claiming to be worlds fastest, sorry garbage in = garbage out. Even when I'm the second fastest, I don't claim to be the "Second Fastest World Record Holder" I'v seen that claim out there also, LoL Where does it stop?
Ok i'm done on this, have fun with it. :tu:
[/quote]
WHICH set of rules do
LSR competitors follow ?
[/quote]
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these days the "lists" already compare apples and oranges..."their both fruits so its valid mentality"...
historically World land speed records are and average speed maintained for a kilo or a mile
but again the lists and other fodder...compare ONE WAY EXITS speeds over a 160 ft timing trap, no engine measurment/certification,
to average speeds over a surveyed and certified 5280 ft or 1000 ft trap with engine measurement.......
so with that add this one to the "list"
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a29797/kawasaki-h2r-249-mph/
"look at me and my accomplishments...because you don't know any better"
i set 18 more "records" today....wow...what records did you "break"....often...silence....
ps...fim/ama is respected...BUT...when many FIM records are 20-30-50 etal mph slower than SCTA records over
the same certified distance...using the SAME Certified clocks and the SAME certified course...one has to wonder....
ps when the fim/ama bike only meet has a history of pics of bikes during record runs blatatly illegal in configuration...is provided
to sanctioning body...and nothing done...one has to also wonder....YES this has happened on numerous occassions...a search on landracing.com provides much of this "history" ....hence is WHY the SCTA 200 mph Club, with its stringent and respected history and LSR
legends keeping it sacredly legit....had to NOT allow many to enter from said AMA bike only meet....
Mr. Guthrie is MOST qualified to speak to many of these issues....as he is the MOST knowledgeable...and involved.....!!!!!
disclaimer...yes NO one , or sanctioning body is perfect....but is does cause one to pause a bit
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FIM and AMA are very stringent and your speed is averaged over a mile, the Whole Mile, not the last 60ft
Then you have 2 hours to make a back up run the same day. Yes speeds might be lower in some classes, because you do have to back it up in the other direction, to insure you are not aided by the wind, thus it is a more accurate speed of what the bike and rider can really do.
And it is very hard to get a AMA FIM record, and you surly most likely will not get a tail wind in both directions like you could running the same direction.
Great discussions. But when it comes to Worlds Fastest there can only be one! FIM
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What attracts me to FIM records is the history/legitimatise associated with them,, We all look back at Ernst Henne, Johnny Allen, Don Vesco, Dave Campos, etc in the knowledge that thay all set "World Records" under the same rules (although tweeked a little),,
Today, as AlterEgo points out, a kid can go down to the Scrubby Airport, pay their entrie, make a pass(with a ? mph tailwind/headwind) and ride away, sproking that he is the worlds fastest, go figger :shock:
To set a FIM record, with the stringent entrie procedure its almost a record in itself just to get to the startline :lol:,,
I work and build a Japanese bike here in Australia, enter it in a sanctioning orginashion based in Switzland, to compete in the USA, in the knowledge that all those that have gone before have had to comply with the time honered FIM procedure,,
sortta makes the kids record at Scrubby look a little hollow, huh :)
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FIM and AMA are very stringent and your speed is averaged over a mile, the Whole Mile, not the last 60ft
Then you have 2 hours to make a back up run the same day. Yes speeds might be lower in some classes, because you do have to back it up in the other direction, to insure you are not aided by the wind, thus it is a more accurate speed of what the bike and rider can really do.
And it is very hard to get a AMA FIM record, and you surly most likely will not get a tail wind in both directions like you could running the same direction.
Great discussions. But when it comes to Worlds Fastest there can only be one! FIM
I am now (ever more than usually) confused.
I know the FIM, when running at Bonneville,
returns backwards over the same course.
Does the AMA do this also ?
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Exactly Thanks Roo
I think there is a little rivalry going on here too, there was mention of someone running illegal config in AMA and still setting a record. Along with all the other rules, there are clear and specific rules to enter into a protest also, sure things do get missed and the AMA and FIM use the same tech guys with AMA and FIM as overseers and the final word according to the rules, if you did not follow protest rules, then again, SOUR GRAPES, and now the AMA has the 201 MPH club vs. the SCTA 200 MPH club. Funny how 200MPH club was trumped by its own arrogance, and they dont recognize AMA but do recognize FIM hummm.
I have spotted people running out of class and brought it to the attention of the official IAW the RULES and they follow up and correct the issue. I have also seen things done at a SCTA event and thought hummm... No one is perfect.
What attracts me to FIM records is the history/legitimatise associated with them,, We all look back at Ernst Henne, Johnny Allen, Don Vesco, Dave Campos, etc in the knowledge that thay all set "World Records" under the same rules (although tweeked a little),,
Today, as AlterEgo points out, a kid can go down to the Scrubby Airport, pay their entrie, make a pass(with a ? mph tailwind/headwind) and ride away, sproking that he is the worlds fastest, go figger :shock:
To set a FIM record, with the stringent entrie procedure its almost a record in itself just to get to the startline :lol:,,
I work and build a Japanese bike here in Australia, enter it in a sanctioning orginashion based in Switzland, to compete in the USA, in the knowledge that all those that have gone before have had to comply with the time honered FIM procedure,,
sortta makes the kids record at Scrubby look a little hollow, huh :)
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Yes Scott AMA run both ways
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FIM and AMA are very stringent and your speed is averaged over a mile, the Whole Mile, not the last 60ft
Then you have 2 hours to make a back up run the same day. Yes speeds might be lower in some classes, because you do have to back it up in the other direction, to insure you are not aided by the wind, thus it is a more accurate speed of what the bike and rider can really do.
And it is very hard to get a AMA FIM record, and you surly most likely will not get a tail wind in both directions like you could running the same direction.
Great discussions. But when it comes to Worlds Fastest there can only be one! FIM
I am now (ever more than usually) confused.
I know the FIM, when running at Bonneville,
returns backwards over the same course.
Does the AMA do this also ?
Yes Scott, AMA rules say within same day FIM is 2 hours
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[quote author=AlterEgo link=topic=165378.msg1588398#msg1588398 date=1467498789]
Yes Scott, AMA rules say within same day FIM is 2 hours
[/quote]
I sit corrected !
Is that, for the AMA
the same PHYSICAL mile,
or the same RELATIVE mile ?[/font][/size]
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...What attracts me to FIM records is the
history/legitimatise associated with them,,
I do NOT share your
enthusiasm for the FIM...........
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Thats debatable also by his own admissions and not knowing how FIM and AMA works. What I see he is tainted against both sanctioning bodies, just like the SCTA vs. AMA. Sure there is a nice list showing some fine speeds but its a one man's list, vs. two historical and legendary organizations list.
Mr. Guthrie is MOST qualified to speak to many of these issues....as he is the MOST knowledgeable...and involved.....!!!!!
disclaimer...yes NO one , or sanctioning body is perfect....but is does cause one to pause a bit
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LOL Scott you dont understand the FIM. They are the most valid organization in the World my friend.
...What attracts me to FIM records is the
history/legitimatise associated with them,,
I do NOT share your
enthusiasm for the FIM...........
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Scott did you know that when you compete for FIM records you also compete for the Mile and Kilo. On the same run you could break the National Mile record the World Mile and kilo record..... that will make some heads go pop!!!
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I think there is a little rivalry going on here too, there was mention
of someone running illegal config in AMA and still setting a record.
I am one of those people who protested.
My protest was upheld.
The record was canceled.
The rules were re-written the next winter.
The AMA inspectors could not correctly
apply their own rules.
One example: An (unnamed) rider was competing
in a no fairing class, but in fact HAD a fairing.
I asked how this could be.
"They" said that as per road-racing rules, there had
to be a "belly pan" to catch the oil of an engine failure.
It was a "safety" rule.
I asked how there could be all these "naked" bikes
running WITHOUT belly pans, if it was a safety rule.
(NO answer)
THEIR (AMA) rules said"No aerodynamics below the level of the axles."
That means no Belly Pans.
My day was done.......
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Thats debatable also by his own admissions and not knowing how FIM and AMA works. What I see he is tainted against both sanctioning bodies, just like the SCTA vs. AMA.
You are getting in over your head.
I am a LIFE MEMBER of the AMA, first joined in 1971.
I set several AMA national LSR records under
the old 3-run system (remember that ?).
I helped Denis Manning (Is THAT name familiar ?)
set up the rules for BUB / BMST.
Who are you, and what are YOUR
qualifications for your bogus opinions ?
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Relax Scott I know who you are, just look at your past comments about how the AMA and FIM works and how you hate them both, you have great knowledge but its tainted.
Thats debatable also by his own admissions and not knowing how FIM and AMA works. What I see he is tainted against both sanctioning bodies, just like the SCTA vs. AMA.
You are getting in over your head.
I am a LIFE MEMBER of the AMA, first joined in 1971.
I set several AMA national LSR records under
the old 3-run system (remember that ?).
I helped Denis Manning (Is THAT name familiar ?)
set up the rules for BUB / BMST.
Who are you, and what are YOUR
qualifications for your bogus opinions ?
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..., and now the AMA has the 201 MPH club vs. the SCTA 200 MPH club. Funny how 200MPH club was trumped by its own arrogance, and they dont recognize AMA but do recognize FIM hummm.
Again, you are WAY over your head !
I was, at the time, a member of the Board of Directors for the
Bonneville 200 MPH Club, and "inspected the AMA operation."
As per my above post, the AMA was found to not be able
to enforce their own rules, or establish the correctness of the entries.
The AMA was found "not ready for prime time.
The FIM was fine.
The Bonneville 200 Club recognizes records set under the FIM.
It is in our by-laws, and in our soul.
It is the BONNEVILLE 200 CLUB,
NOT the SCTA 200 club.
ALL Bonneville records (including the snow-mobile-classified-as-a-motorcycle)
set under FIM rules may be included under the BONNEVILLE 200 club rules.
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Relax Scott I know who you are,
just look at your past comments about how the AMA and FIM
works and how you hate them both, you have great knowledge but its tainted.
Well, I assume from your comment that
you think I am "against" FIM and the AMA.
I prefer to think of it this way:
I am NOT "against the FIM" I just think
they are overblown, not good public servants,
and riding on an outdated reputation.
I am NOT "against" the AMA - I am a life member !
I am often disappointed in how the AMA "front office"
treats the racers, and I am often disappointed
by the way they operate their races.
I think our disagreement is this:
I DISAGREE with the AMA and FIM from time to time,
while supporting (sometimes with money)
more than 90% of what they do.
YOU, therefore" seem to feel that since I do not support the AMA
and the FIM 100%, than I MUST be "AGAINST them.
I disagree.........
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Yes Scott, AMA rules say within same day FIM is 2 hours
Right !
I sit corrected !
Is that, for the AMA
the same PHYSICAL mile,
or the same RELATIVE mile
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Relax Scott nothing over my head that I cant handle. Not looking for a pissing contest, just facts, as I'm making observations trying to figure out all the animosity towards the AMA and FIM. I do find it weird they 200 club accept FIM but not AMA, same track, same timing, same inspectors, same run.
Sorry that my observations and curiosity bothers you and is real. I always wondered what was up with that now I have a first hand account of what happened. Was it just one instant from the AMA or multiple, like I said I'v made a few observations of people in the wrong class and they corrected it on the spot.
FIM rules are lots looser than AMA. Overall they both do a great job putting on an event.
[/quote]
Again, you are WAY over your head !
I was, at the time, a member of the Board of Directors for the
Bonneville 200 MPH Club, and "inspected the AMA operation."
As per my above post, the AMA was found to not be able
to enforce their own rules, or establish the correctness of the entries.
The AMA was found "not ready for prime time.
The FIM was fine.
The Bonneville 200 Club recognizes records set under the FIM.
It is in our by-laws, and in our soul.
It is the BONNEVILLE 200 CLUB,
NOT the SCTA 200 club.
ALL Bonneville records (including the snow-mobile-classified-as-a-motorcycle)
set under FIM rules may be included under the BONNEVILLE 200 club rules.
[/quote]
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Anyone involved in motorsport in general soon realizes that when it comes to dealing with different sanctioning bodies its all part of the game :twisted:,, I guess we "all" have a story of injustice :?
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Same mile just in reverse direction.
Yes Scott, AMA rules say within same day FIM is 2 hours
Right !
I sit corrected !
Is that, for the AMA
the same PHYSICAL mile,
or the same RELATIVE mile
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Yes i was robbed out of two World Records once, but it came down to me not making sure my run was logged it.
Anyone involved in motorsport in general soon realizes that when it comes to dealing with different sanctioning bodies its all part of the game :twisted:,, I guess we "all" have a story of injustice :?
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""SOUR GRAPES, and now the AMA has the 201 MPH club vs. the SCTA 200 MPH club. Funny how 200MPH club was trumped by its own arrogance..."
well "The Bonneville 200 MPH Club" began in the 50's to recognize spectacular history making feat...200 then was just that...
the "integrity" of the Club and hence entry into this CLUB is ensured by requiring "history making" accomplishment...
not "breaking 200"...
not just breaking a record of 200....As we ALL know, WHAT THE RECORD IS THAT IS BROKEN is "paramount" to the achievment
so The Bonneville 200 MPH Club requires the 200 plus record to be monumental through establishing MINIMUMS based on CLASS POTENTIAL based on records over history in and around the class ...
ie some classes at Bonneville require cars to exceed 300...360 etal MPH to gain entry into the Club, some bike classes minimum based on potential could be 220, 230, 260 etc..
ie a Hayabusa running in blown class going 200 is NOT a monumental achievement and does not garner recognition and entry into The Bonneville 200 MPH Club....
its to protect what the club stands for...the integrity of the achievment...
so MINIMUM history setting achievement mark to gain entry is listed in the Two Club, for each class
SO, you can decide which 200 mph club you aspire to...and which you feel has the greatest "integrity"...
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Back in the day achieving 200mph was a "Real Achievement",, (pie in the sky stuff)
Technology today has seen that mitigated,,
Integrity is evident regardless of class and speed,,
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Yes, you can buy a stock bike and hit 200 pretty easy out of the box.
Back in the day achieving 200mph was a "Real Achievement",, (pie in the sky stuff)
Technology today has seen that mitigated,,
Integrity is evident regardless of class and speed,,
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This deserves bold type......
and is so RIGHT !
""SOUR GRAPES, and now the AMA has the 201 MPH club vs. the SCTA 200 MPH club. Funny how 200MPH club was trumped by its own arrogance..."
well "The Bonneville 200 MPH Club" began in the 50's to recognize spectacular history making feat...200 then was just that...
the "integrity" of the Club and hence entry into this CLUB is ensured by requiring "history making" accomplishment...
not "breaking 200"...
not just breaking a record of 200....As we ALL know, WHAT THE RECORD IS THAT IS BROKEN is "paramount" to the achievment
so The Bonneville 200 MPH Club requires the 200 plus record to be monumental through establishing MINIMUMS based on CLASS POTENTIAL based on records over history in and around the class ...
ie some classes at Bonneville require cars to exceed 300...360 etal MPH to gain entry into the Club, some bike classes minimum based on potential could be 220, 230, 260 etc..
ie a Hayabusa running in blown class going 200 is NOT a monumental achievement and does not garner recognition and entry into The Bonneville 200 MPH Club....
its to protect what the club stands for...the integrity of the achievment...
so MINIMUM history setting achievement mark to gain entry is listed in the Two Club, for each class
SO, you can decide which 200 mph club you aspire to...and which you feel has the greatest "integrity"...
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Back in the day achieving 200mph was a "Real Achievement",, (pie in the sky stuff)
Technology today has seen that mitigated,,
Integrity is evident regardless of class and speed,,
My first MOTORCYCLE 200 mph record was a
2-way average of 201.+++ mph in 1990.
700cc
Original frame, forks, engine, bore
and stroke of a 1974 motorcycle.
NO turbo, just carburetors and pump gas
NO PART on the bike was newer
than 1980, 'cept the tires.
Factory ignition, heads etc.
NO technology,
just smarts........
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Yup :), we move on and along with todays technology accelerate towards the next benchmark of 300mph :D
which reminds me, I have a LandSpeed bike in the garage that I should be working on, not sitting here at this laptop talking with folks on the other side of the world due to "Technology" :lol:
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Yeah back in those days that was fast!!
Back in the day achieving 200mph was a "Real Achievement",, (pie in the sky stuff)
Technology today has seen that mitigated,,
Integrity is evident regardless of class and speed,,
My first MOTORCYCLE 200 mph record was a
2-way average of 201.+++ mph in 1990.
700cc
Original frame, forks, engine, bore
and stroke of a 1974 motorcycle.
NO turbo, just carburetors and pump gas
NO PART on the bike was newer
than 1980, 'cept the tires.
Factory ignition, heads etc.
NO technology,
just smarts........
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Today the Ducati 1299 stock but for gearing and race fuel will do 204.2 in the 1.5 mile with a little practice she would have had 200 in the mile.
Stock for stock the 1299 is the fastest N/A in production right now. We proved it, not bad for a V-Twin.
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Yup me too! I'm working on my 250MPH project now and I'm behind.
Great conversation guys. Cheers!!!!
Yup :), we move on and along with todays technology accelerate towards the next benchmark of 300mph :D
which reminds me, I have a LandSpeed bike in the garage that I should be working on, not sitting here at this laptop talking with folks on the other side of the world due to "Technology" :lol:
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Boy this topic headed down some roads I never expected. :eek:
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:lol:
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Just racers talking shit like racers do.... Poor Scott gets a little bent once in a while then he realizes his errors.
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some things are "better" than records...being the "first" to do a big thing...
Roo...cheers to you mate...NO one else in the world...can every be the "first Australian to
ride a motorcycle 200 mph at Bonneville"
a most sincere congrats and massive kudos to YOU..
ps...ego..Scott does get a little "bent" when it comes to "history"...and for good reason, he
was "there" for nearly ALL of it...he may be a great resource for you in your 250 mph project..as he
did that a long, long, long time ago, he and I do not always see eye to eye as well...and thats ok, he is still there for all
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...I'm working on my 250MPH project
now and I'm behind...
I looked up the FIM world records,
and they are in the link you published.
Good on you, mate !
PS: They have a bunch of records from "Nardo."
Did they run those "backwards" as well ?
The main point of this response is to point out that
MAYBE you have suggested your life's Goal:
an FIM sit-on record over 250 mph at Bonneville.
I only counted three guys that have done that,
and YOU would be in a VERY small group
of VERY accomplished racers !
A worthy goal, yes ?
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250 is going to be tough, my other bike handled the salt at 222 ok, this one is better!
...I'm working on my 250MPH project
now and I'm behind...
I looked up the FIM world records,
and they are in the link you published.
Good on you, mate !
PS: They have a bunch of records from "Nardo."
Did they run those "backwards" as well ?
The main point of this response is to point out that
MAYBE you have suggested your life's Goal:
an FIM sit-on record over 250 mph at Bonneville.
I only counted three guys that have done that,
and YOU would be in a VERY small group
of VERY accomplished racers !
A worthy goal, yes ?
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Thankyou Joe, but a huge"Thankyou"to Richard and Jason (both New Zelanders) for giving me the opptunity 8)
Concerning the "three" at Bonneville, didn't John Noonan set a FIM Record (250+) but never accepted it ??,(which would make it four), (ive not checked the FIM list lately)
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Thankyou Joe, but a huge"Thankyou"to Richard and Jason (both New Zelanders) for giving me the opptunity 8)
Concerning the "three" at Bonneville, didn't John Noonan set a FIM Record (250+) but never accepted it ??,(which would make it four), (ive not checked the FIM list lately)
I think you are correct.
Make it four (4)
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250 is going to be tough,
my other bike handled the salt at 222 ok,
this one is better!
The difference between 222
and 250 both ways is substantial.
Hope you are up for it.............
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ps...ego..Scott does get a little "bent" when it comes to "history"...
and for good reason, he was "there" for nearly ALL of it...
he may be a great resource for you in your 250 mph project..as he
did that a long, long, long time ago, he and I do not always see
eye to eye as well...and that's ok, he is still there for all
Thank you for the kind and understanding words Joe.
I have asked AlterEgo, here on this thread,
who he is, and what his LSR qualifications are.
No answers............
I am afraid, until I am educated otherwise, I
am going to have to assume he is some know-nothing twit,
that has no accomplishments of note, and is just hiding behind a screen name.
All talk no action...........
I have helped six(6) riders get over 250 mph.
AlterEgo will not be in that group anytime soon !
Prove yourself first my friend, and I may
help you beyond your wildest dreams.
Until you prove yourself........you are nothing........
(Hows THAT for motivation ?)
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LoL
All the help I need is in my head
You are alright Scott just picking at you a little.
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And your ticking the right boxes , was that a few bikes over 200 a few weeks ago