SuzukiHayabusa.org
GENERAL => BIKE TALK => Topic started by: turbojonn on March 21, 2017, 11:51:41 PM
-
Professionally done. Zero compression in #2. New rings, new rods, fresh head etc! About 3 minutes run time. Happened at 2k rpm at first time at 1/4 throttle. They are saying "we"ll tear it down, but you did supply the parts...".
-
F-CK!!!!!!! :smashfreak:
-
I WOULD BE PISSED... I JUST HAD MY MOTOR BUILT AND KNOW HOW I WOULD FEEL
-
John, guessing no external holes, so if 2 is not going up and down it pitched a rod... could be an oiling issue, tight rod bearings... new motor failure always sucks.... let us know what gave up
-
It makes no noise (metal to metal) and still runs...just on 3 cylinders. We'll know soon, but Im guessing (Ok hoping) its not a rod. They were brand new Carillos installed by APE and we spun the oil prior to start up.
-
Damn, that does make sense though.
-
I tossed one on a 10K 30 second pull, my only guess was I must have pumped all the oil up and let some foamed oil into the system... Don't really know, but I put a 3 inch pan on it with almost 6 quarts of oil and it survived the dyno and performed well at Bonneville.
There was one clunk sound and the motor ran ragged... but idled on 3, one piston was at the top, all the time.
Hope you can find a definitive cause.
-
I noticed that many people do not true valves. What this means is that they will take new valves and use them without grinding them first.
This is wrong. They are called "blanks" for two reasons.
One is they are rarely ever true or straight, and the other the face angles are usually close but not correct!
I do this every day, even out of box heads don't come with true'd valves and with high pressure stronger springs, they do not seat flat and are prone to breaking off the head of the valve.
This is why the Corvettes have been having valve failure. Gm blames the guide, that's not the case as I do those valves and they are rarely straight! I've seen nothing but crooked valves on anything Gm makes. They good news is they really run good after a valve job!
But getting back to the rebuild, I'd be willing to bet they didn't true the valves and just put in fresh valves and one or more broke the heads off! When they are operating at high speeds they need to be perfect!
-
One of the most aggravating parts of this is that the motor ran perfectly when pulled. It just had a very tiny gasket failure that pressurized the coolant system, barely. In any event it will be on a pallet on the way to Steve Knecum in a couple of days. If I chase this problem down with the local shop and try to make things right out here I will still end up with a questionable motor, in a 230 mph bike.
-
That sucks John, keep us posted as to what you find.
-
John, I won't try to piss you off with my do your work sermon, because I have some very good friends who don't do there own stuff, its just not there thing, if you want pull #2 plug, and pull the connectors off the others, spin it over and see if #2 is moving, if so it would be a ring/piston issue, not say it can't be a rod but being you said there was no noise its possible, I have been where you are with my race car so many times I can't count, but I stayed with it, spent a fortune several times over, but I would not trade those years for nothin :thumb:
-
Thanks Rocketgeezer. The piston does move up and down. They were going to scope it today. The shop is as curious as I am at this point. I'm sure they can't feel good about this. Ive known some of these guys from the mc World for years.
-
Damn...I hate this for you, been in the same situation, just makes you sick at the stomach...My 2nd bike is surely staying stock...Seems to me at some point the shops should take the hit and make things right!!!
-
Stock certainly has it's plusses. Maybe its a broken ring? Of course, that means a jacked cylinder. Knecum will make it bad ass once it gets to him.
The shop manager at the Dealership told me they always use new parts on rebuilds (not used like mine). This was not mentioned even once before the failure. I asked him how they can rebuild anyting if all they do is replace EVERYTING with new parts, like new cylinder, head, crank, cases, pistons, transmissions, etc?! He pointed to a dirt bike and said a motor in a race bike gets rebuilt every 6 to 10 hours. At that point I was done engaging in any further conversation, as I'm not really a proponent of replacing my motor on a weekly basis with a brand new factory replacement that I would THEN put new performance parts in. I did remind him that EVERY part was either new or freshly serviced/machind and inspected by his tech.
I'm still waiting to see what caused the failure. If they are fair, I'll be reasonable, if they are to blame and jack me around at all they will not like the bad pr they wont be able to avoid. My bike is well known in this area and and like most places, the bike clubs communicate. I doubt they want to be known as the 1000 foot rebuild shop. I won't need to say one word to anybody about it.
This sort of story spreads by itself, good or bad.
I'm ranting now. We're still at the "discovery" stage. With Kneecum rebuilding Everett Powersports rebuild we'll get to find out exactly how they did.
On another related topic: a big name machining company installed my rods for this build. We'll get to verify that those are good too.
Please know that if this had lasted even for 20 or 30 rides I would have a lot more room for patience and understanding. 1000 feet and maybe 20hp worth of load and it was done. Then I get the "new parts" speech. Maybe they'll suprise me and do more than I'm expecting...we'll see.
-
Stock certainly has it's plusses. Maybe its a broken ring? Of course, that means a jacked cylinder. Knecum will make it bad ass once it gets to him.
The shop manager at the Dealership told me they always use new parts on rebuilds (not used like mine). This was not mentioned even once before the failure. I asked him how they can rebuild anyting if all they do is replace EVERYTING with new parts, like new cylinder, head, crank, cases, pistons, transmissions, etc?! He pointed to a dirt bike and said a motor in a race bike gets rebuilt every 6 to 10 hours. At that point I was done engaging in any further conversation, as I'm not really a proponent of replacing my motor on a weekly basis with a brand new factory replacement that I would THEN put new performance parts in. I did remind him that EVERY part was either new or freshly serviced/machind and inspected by his tech.
I'm still waiting to see what caused the failure. If they are fair, I'll be reasonable, if they are to blame and jack me around at all they will not like the bad pr they wont be able to avoid. My bike is well known in this area and and like most places, the bike clubs communicate. I doubt they want to be known as the 1000 foot rebuild shop. I won't need to say one word to anybody about it.
This sort of story spreads by itself, good or bad.
I'm ranting now. We're still at the "discovery" stage. With Kneecum rebuilding Everett Powersports rebuild we'll get to find out exactly how they did.
On another related topic: a big name machining company installed my rods for this build. We'll get to verify that those are good too.
Please know that if this had lasted even for 20 or 30 rides I would have a lot more room for patience and understanding. 1000 feet and maybe 20hp worth of load and it was done. Then I get the "new parts" speech. Maybe they'll suprise me and do more than I'm expecting...we'll see.
John, you said 0 compression, was its 0 or did it have 15-20lbs + or- ? cause you see that the piston is going up and down, it would have to be a ring, piston, cly, issue ths scope ch should tell if it does not tell them to air charge the cly with the piston up on the comp stroke, and see if any air come out the intake, exhaust, or crank breather, I don't remember you saying but was this shop also responsible for the install and dyno tune, ?? also you said something about 20HP of load do you mean nitrous ? if so is it a wet or dry setup ? because even if it was just 20hp of spray, if #2 leaned out for whatever reason it would turn the piston and rings to toast, especially if the rings were not set up correctly with the clearance necessary to run nitrous,....or they could tear it down and fix it like they should
-
John, I just did some checking on Everett, with the BBT, and just king of poked around to see if there were any consumer complaints, could not find nothing, they have a BBT A+ but no reports, so ether there good or nobody bitches, but I'm inclined to think nobody bitches, my experience has found the only time you get anything good out of a dealership is if you know one of the guys in the back he takes care of you, without the front knowing about it, now don't think for a minute that I'm defending those people, but there really is no shop that would guaranty a race motor, but from a business standpoint, the least they could do is offer to fix it for cost of parts, what the bitch is they don't seem to care, they got your money, so what if you bitch to everybody and there brother, Everett don't care, especially if there busy, all that being said, if it were me in your situation I would bring it to Knecum to, good luck, and please get back with what you find,
-
Thanks for the reply and effort Rocketgeezer. They were blowing air into the cylinder but I could not see the gauge. They said the needle would rise but not hold. They scoped it and saw nothing inside. My guess is broken rings like you said or maybe a head gasket. Probably not a head gasket though. The piston looked good and was moving.
There are other issues I noticed along the way with this particular place and this process. In any event, it's on its way to Knecum Tuesday.
The 20 horsepower part I was referring to is the maximum horsepower I estimate it made before it fell apart. It's running the same map it ran when taken apart, which is a map that worked great for 25000 miles for 18lbs on pump and 20 something on race, but I never ran race fuel or went over 18lbs.
I'm going to have the injectors checked and cleaned too. Three plugs were souty and one (#2) was too clean. Makes me wonder if a lean melt down or lean inbuced head gasket failure can occur at 2k rpm and no boost? My guess is that it was fine until the failure kno running issue oresented) then it failed, the the 3 good cylinders got too much fuel.
-
If the piston is moving and there I nothing viewable on the scope, it might just have thrown a valve shim.
-
The leakdown was 4% across all (according to the shop)? Could this still be the case? If so, how does a valve shim get thrown (I don't know)?
-
The leakdown was 4% across all (according to the shop)? Could this still be the case? If so, how does a valve shim get thrown (I don't know)?
They put air in the cly it leaked, but they could not tell where, BS on that for one, also no way its going to have 4% across and one cly that cannot hold air, and I don't buy can't see nothing on the scope or they did and not known what there looking at, and as John said it could be a throw shim which could be caused by a jackass setting up the head and getting clearance wrong, or possibly severe valve float, from weak springs or a combination of the weak springs and the jackass, and I understand what you meant by the 20HP, but 20HP on a turbo bike running 18 psi boost ain't nothing, should not have effected jack, you said nothing on your original tune up was changed, the rebuild basically was freshen up what you had??? compression, cams, injectors, or anything in fuel system or ign system was not changed, and bike ran fine until it got revved up good when you made the pass???, if the scope check really was OK the thrown shim could be a possibility, that the shim or a part of it has a valve slightly jammed and holding it open a bit, you may or may not see this on a scope check but you would sure as hell see it when blowing air in the cly, it would ether leak out the throttle body (intake), or exhaust, tell Steve you need to know what exactly caused this cause you got a forum full of guys that need to know, also if you need them I have a spare head and a cherry stock bore cly,
-
You guys are such a blessing to thus forum. I am so grateful for your interest and help.
It's people like you and like Steve Knecum, Richard Peppler, and a number of others that make me owning and riding a bike like this possible out here in WA.
One positive bit about this; now I'll have a motor by Knecum! One of the toughest parts of this build, besides throwning the money away, was NOT having every part and process evaluated by someone who has "been there and done that" a thousand times. I may vey well get a call from Steve saying "we need xyz", or "we don't need to do that" and I'll be able to know that it's flat out 100% true. I have a suspicion he WON'T tell me I need to replace everything with all brand new parts. I still can't believe the shop manager considers that a normal practice (or a believable excuse). I'm 52 and posses what I like to think us at least a standard I.Q. This manager presented his position like I was wearing a hockey helmet and a drool bib. Damn, now I'm ranting again. This may happen for a few weeks more, lol.
Thank you again so much for mentioning the parts (head and cylinder). I may need to hit you up on those depending on Knecums investigative results in the tear down? It is so hard to find trusted source for parts. A new OEM cylinder is 1200!
Oh, in answer to the scope of rebuild: Yep, just a stock rebuild. I did change or add a couple of things while it was apart:
-had the crank lightened and balanced and inspected at APE
-switched to Carrillos
-switched to ARP head studs, 10mm (not the 1/2"/12mm)
-undercut 2nd and new tranny bearings
-valve job and a swt of APE springs, both with APE
-reused the same ss Ferrara valves
-put in APE case studs, main studs and output shaft stud
-installed a cystom head gasket, multilayer from John Noonan
-had the head milled at APE
-had the cylinder bores checked and honed and the top checked for flatness at APE
-switched to an APE manual cam chain tensioner.
The rest was just bearings and seals.
I'm betting we'll know what went wrong in a few weeks. Sad part is, it may be just one little thing, but I have no faith in the motor currently. Cool part, in a month or two it will be a beast!
-
John, I think Wossner is making new Hayabusa cylinders for less than $1200.00. Noonan would be the hook up on that.
-
You guys are such a blessing to thus forum. I am so grateful for your interest and help.
It's people like you and like Steve Knecum, Richard Peppler, and a number of others that make me owning and riding a bike like this possible out here in WA.
One positive bit about this; now I'll have a motor by Knecum! One of the toughest parts of this build, besides throwning the money away, was NOT having every part and process evaluated by someone who has "been there and done that" a thousand times. I may vey well get a call from Steve saying "we need xyz", or "we don't need to do that" and I'll be able to know that it's flat out 100% true. I have a suspicion he WON'T tell me I need to replace everything with all brand new parts. I still can't believe the shop manager considers that a normal practice (or a believable excuse). I'm 52 and posses what I like to think us at least a standard I.Q. This manager presented his position like I was wearing a hockey helmet and a drool bib. Damn, now I'm ranting again. This may happen for a few weeks more, lol.
Thank you again so much for mentioning the parts (head and cylinder). I may need to hit you up on those depending on Knecums investigative results in the tear down? It is so hard to find trusted source for parts. A new OEM cylinder is 1200!
Oh, in answer to the scope of rebuild: Yep, just a stock rebuild. I did change or add a couple of things while it was apart:
-had the crank lightened and balanced and inspected at APE
-switched to Carrillos
-switched to ARP head studs, 10mm (not the 1/2"/12mm)
-undercut 2nd and new tranny bearings
-valve job and a swt of APE springs, both with APE
-reused the same ss Ferrara valves
-put in APE case studs, main studs and output shaft stud
-installed a cystom head gasket, multilayer from John Noonan
-had the head milled at APE
-had the cylinder bores checked and honed and the top checked for flatness at APE
-switched to an APE manual cam chain tensioner.
The rest was just bearings and seals.
I'm betting we'll know what went wrong in a few weeks. Sad part is, it may be just one little thing, but I have no faith in the motor currently. Cool part, in a month or two it will be a beast!
Thanks John, I just try to help guys as I have been there, done that.... to often..... those are all good parts used but nothing there that would change a tune up, provided they were assembled correctly, you also may want to have Steve check that they did what they claimed, mainly to be sure it was done and you were not just charged for it, especially the stuff you cant see, internal motor parts, trans mods, because how would you know unless you tore it down and new what your looking at, like the undercut tranny gears unless you had it in your hand and new what to look at it would not look much different than a stock gear, same thing with bearings good used will work just the same as brand new, I'm sorry that I may come off like a pessimistic SOB about people, but after have it done to me like you have I don't trust nobody working on my shit, cars, bikes, lawn mower, guns, yes I do my own gunsmith work, (as I don't trust those tricky pricks ether $150, + parts to do a job that takes me maybe 15 mins and $10,) a problem I have right now is I have to find a new shop to work with for machine work and dyno time, the dude I was using retired, sold his stuff, can't blame him he was in his 70s, used to race sort of semi pro back before dirt was invented,... a bud at work has a GSXR 1K, local shop (dealer) wanted $250 for fork seal job, told him I'd do it for $100 if he helped, I ordered the stuff seals, oil, all of it was like $40? I had some homemade tools work great, had him done about 3 hrs total, (he watched more than helped)LOL, he wants me to put nitrous on it I said No way in hell, he asks why, I said cause when you burn it up I don't want to fix it, and then you be pissed at me, he says why should it burn up, I said leave it alone and ride it, if you want mods like that done find somebody you don't know and see every day, or do it yourself............don't mean to go on like this but I'm sitting here, its raining mamas busy and there's nothing else to do, LOL....if you do end up needing that stuff and Knecum don't have spare's..... like I said the cly is cherry, the head needs a seat fixed, a simple valve job may fix it, I just have not looked at it in a couple years
-
It's a mercifully rainy day here too. Makes it easier to be bikeless.
I had looked into shipping the entire bike to RCC. I got a $1200 quote...one way!
The bike was fully dialed in when torn down, so I feel good about that portion of the project. Every part the dealership put in was one I saw, except the bearings. I feel they meant well, and did their best, but something did go very wrong for sure. Knecums skills are the best there are, so I fell fantastic about having his name on the build.
Also, another guy on a different board was/is bashing the heck out of APE for allegedly not getting rod tolerances correct. In tearing down my fresh build we'll be able to see how APE did on the rod bearings (they installed the rods). I truly like the APE guys, so my hope is I can help support their good name by proving mine were/are spot on.
I'm curius to see what Knecum recommends for needed parts for a proper build. I did not use big head studs or oversized intake valves. I wanted a 500 hp build, nothing more. In any event, I'm actually happy my motor has a spot in Knecum's calendar. :D
-
Perhaps I am missing something here, but I am fairly confident this has nothing to do with the bottom end / bearings. Bottom ends just hold things together, and ALWAYS make noise and / or fill the oil with shit when there is a major issue. The only thing power relatedwrt bottom end is the extra power consumed by a bearing as it is tightening up around the crank journal, usually identified by a bike that I very difficult to turn over or won't stay running at idle.
The problem could be a head gasket or some other top end issue. Perhaps valves that are bent from hitting pistons due to improper cam timing or moving sprockets, spit shim, head gasket, cracked head piss in coolant into the cyl, etc.
From your description, it may have nothing at all to do with the engine and could be a bad coil or even sparkplug/injector causing it to only run on 3 cyl.
-
#2 won't hold air. Now that I have a spot on Knecum's calendar I am way more than happy to have him tear it all the way down and check/rebuild it all to his liking. He is a motor God in my eyes.
-
It's a mercifully rainy day here too. Makes it easier to be bikeless.
I had looked into shipping the entire bike to RCC. I got a $1200 quote...one way!
The bike was fully dialed in when torn down, so I feel good about that portion of the project. Every part the dealership put in was one I saw, except the bearings. I feel they meant well, and did their best, but something did go very wrong for sure. Knecums skills are the best there are, so I fell fantastic about having his name on the build.
Also, another guy on a different board was/is bashing the heck out of APE for allegedly not getting rod tolerances correct. In tearing down my fresh build we'll be able to see how APE did on the rod bearings (they installed the rods). I truly like the APE guys, so my hope is I can help support their good name by proving mine were/are spot on.
I'm curius to see what Knecum recommends for needed parts for a proper build. I did not use big head studs or oversized intake valves. I wanted a 500 hp build, nothing more. In any event, I'm actually happy my motor has a spot in Knecum's calendar. :D
One of the guys here looked into having Richard do his bike, he was going to take his vacation time truck it up there and wait, I think never got coordinated on the parts/waiting deal, he did eventually took it to a guy in NC, Lees Performance I think it was, got to the track went down on his second pass, did not get hurt, bike got tore up, sold everything within a month, don't remember what lee charged him, did not seem out of line at the time??, and I'm sorry if I come off sounding like I'm bashing a shop and I doubt that anything APE did caused this, as you said it made no noise it was still running, all the pistons are going up and down, I wish you were able to see the cly with the scope and see what the top of the piston and cly wall looked like, if the top of the piston was all still there, and the cly wall was not torched, and the piston was going up and down that really only leaves the valve train, and the dealer said when they put in air it would not hold, could defiantly be a screwed valve, as you see from Johns (Sportbikeriders) post and has been into 50 times the Busa motors than I have, also thinks its in the valve/head area, his, Rodneys, and I'm sure other cust bikes they work on at that shop run well into the 6s and live, so he knows what he's talking about, maybe the guys at Everett did do a conscientious job, but there blasé attitude helping you out after taking your 5K sucks, now if they really did the whole job as you say used all the parts you listed and your bill was 5K that's not out of line cost wise, whats out of line is its supposed to stay together for more than 1/2 a pass, as you said if you had some good passes out of it it might be a different story, my friend with the shop and the dyno that retired, years ago I burnt some pistons, was super busy at work, to have time to do much so I had him tear the bike apart and fix it, new Wossners/ valve job/springs, he got the motor together on a Friday afternoon he said if I came over sat we could stuff it back make a couple pulls and I could take it home I said great, anyways we got it together it sounded fine it was late so we didn't monkey around on the dyno, by the time I got home maybe 5 miles it was making a funny noise and smoking out the exhaust, I pulled the plugs 3 looked fine one looked like shit, leakdown ck (air in the cyl) found #4 with about 80% leakage, into the crankcase, I'm getting super pissed by now, did not sleep a lot that night, got up sun got the motor out, tore down, my bud had left a pin lock out of #4 and the pin came out enough to start rubbing on the wall, about rubbed through it, one good hit on that ride home and the motor would have been shrapnel, after I settled down I called told him what happened, took him the screwed parts, in a week he had me a new piston, a good cly, which I got put the bike back together myself, took it down we run 7 or 8 pulls and I have used the shop machines, and dyno many times since, but he never put another wrench on my bike, and since then if I did not have time to do it myself it waited till I did, so I hope you understand my attitude about doing my own stuff, he screwed up, he new it, he made it right, the Everett guys could have done more for you than lip service, he would done the whole job, but that was the very last time anybody worked on any of my stuff, as I have said several times since if I have something I can't fix, I won't have it,
-
Were the valves ground or not? I still haven't read that anywhere.
You can't or shouldn't ever put valves in without grinding (truing ) them !
If you do, they tend to snap off the heads of the valves when you put stronger springs spin it up real fast, it exaggerates the issue!
-
All nice and freshly ground by APE. Also, when it was running poorly it was quiet as far as no noise from bouncing thinhs inside the cylinder.
-
I think I said this on another board, but if the valves are not tapped when installed; the keepers may not seat and cause a valve to drop.
-
I think I said this on another board, but if the valves are not tapped when installed; the keepers may not seat and cause a valve to drop.
Yes very true!
-
Were the valves ground or not? I still haven't read that anywhere.
You can't or shouldn't ever put valves in without grinding (truing ) them !
If you do, they tend to snap off the heads of the valves when you put stronger springs spin it up real fast, it exaggerates the issue!
I've installed many valves and never once touched the valve face. Perhaps this is in reference to some automotive after market valves?
I'm pretty sure we Rev them high enough and put them through at least a little abuse now and them :D
There is a kwikway machine in the shop. Hasn't even been turned on in years.
-
Thing that lights a bulb for me is the manual chain adjuster at a dealership
Also very rarely touch the valve faces
-
The dealership called today. They said it was a head gasket failure although they could not find any parks that are defective. I am going to inspect the mating surfaces as I suspect they got gouged them on assembly. The head was fresh and back from ape And the cylinder top was inspected there as well.
-
That is a heck of a head gasket "failure". I'd go with gasket failure secondary to workmanship issue.
-
Me too for sure. Gaskets dont fail with freshly milled heads, news studs @ 60 lbs and a checked and certified flat cylinder. APE said they could check the head the same day they receive it (love them). My guess is that the unprotected storage next to the bottom of the cylinder led to bumping of the heads sealing surface and gouged it. Good thing is there will be discernable evidence if this happend. You cant just dissassemble a failed motor and put it back together and call it good. Something was off.
-
Or the head was not clamped hard on the gasket, perched by something like wrong dowl pin ,or just not tensioned ???
-
Hmmm, can a stock length dowel pin be too long for a milled head?
-
So you've determined it was just a head gasket failure... have you looked at both surfaces.... are there problems with either? Pics of the failure path and any issues with the surfaces would help diagnose your issue.... excessive clamping force can distort the engine and cause failure as easily not enough force... did the head gasket look evenly clamped when it was removed?
Careful analysis of the parts may lead you to your issues.
-
That'll be Tuesday. The dealership assembled it. APE fresh mill on the head and they both (APE and the dealership) checked the cylinder prior to assembly. Arp head bolts they say were clamped to 60 lbs.
On Tuesday it is apart again and I'll get pics and look for issues. The dealership daid they found nothing.
-
Sorry about the many typos. Sometimes I use the talk to text or try to one hand it.
-
Hmmm, can a stock length dowel pin be too long for a milled head?
It would had to have been milled a lot, and that is something any eng builder worth a crap would ck, that the dowel will have room enough to not bottom before the gasket is clamped, of course they may have forgot, not bothered, said fuck it, or whatever
-
I went to the shop today. Yesterday via phone one guy said "nothing wrong they could find". Today another guy (name withheld" said that when it left the shop it had proper valve clearance and now it has zero. I told them this is news to me, as the last guy told me zero problem found. Then thd guy says "we just put the head on thay you gave us and maybe something was inside it". Maybe be professional and check the parts you bolt together?! At this point I got the owner and had a seious talk with him.
They've colectivelly escalted this to a personal issue for me. It's ON. Worst case for me, Im out the rebuild price. Worst case for them, there name will be shi% in this state. My bike is probably the most known Busa in the sate, and people are always asking who did what to it. I'm happy to tell them all about it.
The owner appears to see things my way (THEY needed to check everyting, THEY unboxed APE's fresh parts and stored them in a fuc%ing construction zone, etc).
Oh, they also bzpsgd me 3 hours for installing an APE dummy shaft while the engine was apart (I have the receipt).. This is at most a 10 minute job. They also DESTROYED my carbon fiber front fender.
In order to file a claim I will need to give them opportunity to repair the motor to proper working order. If they can't,
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g157/turbojonn/20170401_185430_zpsg2ir9ivc.jpg)][URL=http://s55.photobucket.com/user/turbojonn/media/20170401_185430_zpsg2ir9ivc.jpg.html](http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g157/turbojonn/20170401_185430_zpsg2ir9ivc.jpg) (http://[URL=http://s55.photobucket.com/user/turbojonn/media/20170401_185430_zpsg2ir9ivc.jpg.html)[/url]
-
Is that the front or rear of the fender???Make sure you keep all paperwork associated with this incident in a folder, just a reminder as I'm sure you have been...
-
Dam dude, I'm sure it has escalated to the point where they see you coming they lock the door and run for the shitter, don't know what to say that I have not said already, ....... one thing please clarify, you said the charged you 5 grand? what exactly did that include, did you already pay APE and whoever else for the shipped in parts plus the 5K or what........ where I'm going here is, I would be tempted to just get my money back at least whatever labor they charged, grab my shit and get out of there before they finish the rectal exam you seem to be getting, there are several eng builders across the country that would do a conscientious job and you would get your moneys worth, you mentioned Steve Kechum, what going on there, other than he may be booked up for months....again sorry about mu negative attitude but at this point I would not trust them to wheel my trash to the curb let alone touch my bike,
-
Valve clearance doesn't just go to zero immediately. It usually does decrease over time, but if it really did have clearance, and all of a sudden has zero, the shims or keepers likely moved. Doubt it happened to all valves though.
-
Hi All. 3k $ is their part. I just erased what I was trying to type. I was typing how "I'm giving them a chance to make it right" and "they asked to tear it down". Trying to find something to type just made me have to think about the situation more and ir ended up basically reinforcing getting my stuff the heck out of their hands. So wierd that this has devolved to this level. This guy has been doing builds around here forever?! His builds are (were) good.
If I get so much as one more inkling of any "shinanagons" I'll put their "rebuild attempt" back on a pallet and get it to Steve. I know if I end up doing this I wont see any of the 3k back (judge would require me to allow the shop to have the chance to make good the deficit) but like I said, it's gotten personal.
The "zero clearance" story that was initially witheld from me, and then followed by basically "maybe something was in the APE head" was total BS and at that point I pretty much switched to bully response mode, which is seek and destroy. Thats when I unloaded on the owner (one of them). The other partial owner is also the shop manager.
The you Sportbikerider. It's nice to have logical backup to help keep these clowns in check.
Oh, almost fotgot, its the front fender. They called me when it happened, and were very upfront with me, and paid for a new one. If it had just been this nobody would ever have known but me. I'm all about trying to forgive and understand. At leat I WAS all that.
-
Getting a strait answer out of those people looks like its going to be tough, you got the assembled head from APE? or did they set it up, in any case the shop should have checked valve clearance when they degreed the cams or did they not do that?....and as John said for a valve to loose clearance all of a sudden something had to come out of place or break, but how is my question, ..............and I'm not so sure about the small claims court deal, if a reasonable judge heard the whole story a decision in your favor is possible, that provided hiring a attorney did not cost more than you would get back I mean getting a different story from three different people, wtf is that? if I were the judge that all I would have to hear
-
Perhaps I am missing something here, but I am fairly confident this has nothing to do with the bottom end / bearings. Bottom ends just hold things together, and ALWAYS make noise and / or fill the oil with shit when there is a major issue. The only thing power relatedwrt bottom end is the extra power consumed by a bearing as it is tightening up around the crank journal, usually identified by a bike that I very difficult to turn over or won't stay running at idle.
The problem could be a head gasket or some other top end issue. Perhaps valves that are bent from hitting pistons due to improper cam timing or moving sprockets, spit shim, head gasket, cracked head piss in coolant into the cyl, etc.
From your description, it may have nothing at all to do with the engine and could be a bad coil or even sparkplug/injector causing it to only run on 3 cyl.
Good point had my motor go south or so I thought. It dropped a cylinder and shut off during a pass. Tried to start it and it sounded bad wouldn't stay running. Brought it to a shop they said it was leaking down in number 3 bad. They said it was most likely a piston so i bought new motor parts pistons rods everything. Brought it to a guy to build it and I got a call that said the motor was good. I was shocked and said no way but upon looking at the parts it was fine, came to the conclusion it was either a coil or injector but it definitely wasn't what the shop said or I thought. John I hope for you it gets taken care of man and for as little money as possible .
-
Maybe an injector stuck open and flooded the cylinder? Could this cause massive blow by and a dead cylinder, and then be fine on dissambly? Of course, one of the guys said it had zero valve clearance?
The #2 plug (dead cylinder) was super clean, while the other 3 were wet and dark.
-
One other option you have may be this...If you paid for the work by credit card you can file a dispute directly with the issuer of the card...The card company will pull the money back and place a hold on the payment until the dispute is concluded...If by chance you did pay by card, I would get the bike and all parts from that shop ASAP, then immediately file the dispute...I pay for all major purchases or work in this manner and the card company generally agrees with the customer...
-
Thanks for the reply Stunnah. I paid cash though. :(
-
Probably too late but an oil sample would tell you if it had gas, antifreeze or whatever in the bottom end.
-
Any update???