SuzukiHayabusa.org
GENERAL => MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE => Topic started by: knecum on September 04, 2017, 08:08:31 AM
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We went back to Loring to enter the 2000 and 3000 class up from last yrs 1350 class. We had a 10mph cross wind all day which I sat out most of the day. I decided to take a safe check out pass and was sideway the whole run and ran 199 in the mile on a 155 record and a 203 on a 205 in the 1.5. I waited until close to 6pm to make my 2nd pass and ran 210 in the 1 and 214 in the 1.5 to take both records. We came back Sunday with predictions of 213 and 217 1.5 but I ran 217 mile and 219 1.5 with maybe a 2-3 mph tail wind. I decided to make 1 more to seek 220, but during all the passes I was experiencing the front end dancing side to side under acceleration in the lower 3 gears and I was after it very early to seek 220, well my eyes were distracted off the tach because of this and went into the limiter hard in 3rd almost to the point of aborting the run. I recovered fairly quick and pinned it as fast as i could to atleast get a decent 1.5 speed. I was going throught the 1.5 traps higher in the revs then my previous 3 runs so I knea it had to be pretty decent. I got back to the truck and told my buddy I screwed up that pass. He said well you didn't screw up that bad you went 220 + !!! And 217 in the mile. I told him if I wouldn't of hit the limiter I really think I could've went 220 in the mile and 223 in the 1.5. I decided to call it a day until I settle the front end down with a nice Scotts dampener. Thank you Larry Forstall for this opportunity. Whats next? Will see. Many different options to choose from.
https://youtu.be/LA9GQLjGHho
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:tu: :tu: :tu:
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Absolutely outstanding! I think no one really appreciates those speeds until you actually run in Production class. Incredible!
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What does production class mean ? We dont have it here
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Production Class. The bike "looks" exactly stock, except for safety stuff, all modifications are "hidden" from the eye. Stock fairings, stock tank, stock ride height, even stock exhaust (what you can see that is). Your suppose to have a picture of the bike from the manufacture for comparison.
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Has to be a handful to drive that 1700cc monster at stock height and length. great job!
Question, is a modified header(or aftermarket) with stock mid pipe and can legal? i mean you can peek into the fairings. how picky are rules on this sort of thing? im thinking about doing a smaller cc production bike with a buddy.
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I can't answer for all situations, but I would guess if it is obviously different it could be protested. I know on a Busa you can see the step headers on some exhaust through the fairings, but a slightly larger h eader painted OEM black you really can't tell. The big difference is the cans must look stock even if you look down them....
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So, you cant open up the cans if it can be seen from the tip. Must be a pain to tune that kind of motor.
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You can gut the cans as long as they are stock appearing. You can tell by the sound. Our stock exhaust is the same one used at Bonneville which is the most scrutinised venue in LSR. There was a bike that had the ends drilled out and went 212 in July that was also lowered. We also use OEM airbox and OEM ram air tubes. I personally dont agree on the .5mm overbore allowance. Yes its a handful riding it and foot shifting without the aid of a quick shifter. Would the rules allow a Scotts dampener to be added? I feel I needed one or the stocker worked with thicker oil.
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Congrats Steve and Larry! 220+ on a production bike is ridiculous! -Dean
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To answer your question on its size its a 1679cc. 85x11. Tons of torque and it has Carpenters best head on it. Ti rods, billet crank etc
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What you mean this little old 1999 stocker. :huepfenicon111: It put me in the 2 Club in 2000 and Mark went 220 one way for a 217.9 record in 2002 that still stands. LSL
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/001084528552/media/53313071020/medium/1504721999/enhance)
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To answer your question on its size its a 1679cc. 85x11. Tons of torque and it has Carpenters best head on it. Ti rods, billet crank etc
How much on the wheel ?
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To answer your question on its size its a 1679cc. 85x11. Tons of torque and it has Carpenters best head on it. Ti rods, billet crank etc
How much on the wheel ?
With a sidewinder 285
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So it a 1679cc motor in there, right ??, Production you say ??
SCTA Rules, section 7.J.1 states:- "OEM engine ""displacement"" determines the displacement class for competition. Displacement "may not" be increased beyond that class limit,,
1999 Hayabusa, 1299cc, which as a Production bike "locks" it into 1350 class, :?
I congratulate you on the speed attained, however, although the bike looks innocent as a Production class bike, Suzuki did not produce a 1679cc OEM engine package in the Gen1 Hayabusa,,
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I personally dont agree on the .5mm overbore allowance. Yes its a handful riding it and foot shifting without the aid of a quick shifter. Would the rules allow a Scotts dampener to be added? I feel I needed one or the stocker worked with thicker oil.
I would argue that a Scotts dampener would be a safety feature and should be allowed. I started to state earlier that you need to swap out some heavier oil in the dampener after seeing all the shaking going on....
The 0.5mm overbore rule was removed from the Production class a few years back.
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Yes I'm aware of changing the oil in them. I just didn't do it to this one. Lets all be thankful that I didn't.
Scott, last I checked they don't make any 2000 or 3000 or even an inline 1650 cc Prod bikes. If ECTA and LTA offers these classes then we will take advantage of it. I mean the class is there, what am I suppose to do not enter it? Or because I'm worried about what people think. I never said I have a 1300 cc motor, I have a 1679 in a 2000 class. Technically I could run 2000ccs. Everyone is invited to give it a shot right? What about the records I broke, theirs are ok because it only 205? Look in the book the classes are there in print with records attached to them. I broke them. If I didn't break them and especially go 220 everything would be fine? Btw I have been running this type of Prod bike way back in 06 and 07. Same big engines same classes!!
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Scott didn't question the class/displacement, I did,,
I have stated in the post what the rule says, I have nothing to justify,,
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My bad, but even the 1650 class, do you think those records are held with a bike thats 1300, 1400 or 1441 cc motors? No they are built motors up to 1580cc that I've seen on a zx14 motor application. If it was meant to be stock displacement why not have a P/P 1300 class, instead its 1350? So now its a built motor up to 1350cc. We're not claiming worlds fastest stock motor Production bike, just the fastest speed recorded in any type of Prod class at any venue but in the designated class we happen to fit in and we're damn proud of it !!! Its stock height, stock seat, stock modified exhaust, stock throttlebodies, stock airbox and ram air tubes, stock wheelbase down to the bar-end weights. Its not like I entered the 1650 class even though I could go the same speed with 1634 motor. You also are referring to SCTA, we are racing ECTA and LTA venues.
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"OEM Engine Displacement", read, "OEM ENGINE DISPLACEMENT" determines the displacement class for competition,,
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"OEM Engine Displacement", read, "OEM ENGINE DISPLACEMENT" determines the displacement class for competition,,
We run in the LTA P/P 2000 and P/P 3000 class and set the Production record @ 220MPH!!!!!!!!!! Our motors have the SCTA Records as well !!!
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I just grabbed this from the lta site
7. MOTORCYCLES
MOTORCYCLE OVERVIEW
Motorcycle records are kept in 6 Categories:
OHC (Overhead Cam), Pushrod, 2-Stroke, Twins, Classics, Electric
Motorcycle Records are comprised of three components:
Motorcycle Class, Engine Type, Engine Displacement/Voltage
For example: MPS/CBG-1350/4 Class –Modified Partial Streamliner
Type – Classic Blown Gas
Size - 1001 - 1350cc. /4 stroke.
CHASSIS AND BODY DESCRIPTIONS
PRODUCTION (P)
A: Production Class is for motorcycles that are stock IN APPEARANCE.
B: Visible engine components must be OEM for the model.
C: Changes to the fueling system, engine, air intake, computers and exhaust
system that are not apparent to exterior view are permitted.
MODIFIED (M)
A: The modified class is for motorcycles BASED on production models.
B: No aerodynamic aids on the front. Commonly referred to as “NAKED”.
C: Removal of the front fairings is usually all that is required. (see rules.)
D: Modifications to the other bodywork is limited.
E: Modifications to the engine, swing arm, tank, pegs are allowed.
MODIFIED PARTIAL STREAMLINER (MPS) Same as Modified(M) with:
A: Aerodynamic aids allowed per rules.
B: Most modern sport bikes with a “chip and can” fall into this class.
C: Custom bodywork is allowed as defined in the rules.
ALTERED (A)
A: Altered is for specially constructed and purpose built race bikes.
B: Aerodynamic front fairings are not allowed.
C: May use 1 or 2 engines of any design.
D: May use non-motorcycle engines. (PRIOR APPROVAL REQUIRED)
ALTERED PARTIAL STREAMLINER (APS) Same as Altered(A) with:
A: Aerodynamic fairings allowed. The rider must be visible per the rules.
B: Modified Class motorcycles with custom APS fairings fall into APS.
SIDECAR (SC)
A: Modified or Altered class motorcycles with a sidecar attached.
B: Riders are not permitted.
STREAMLINER (S) AND SIDECAR STREAMLINER (SCS)
A: Extensive design and construction required.
B: Roll cage, fire suppression, driver restraints, fire suit, etc. required.
C: May use 1 or 2 engines of any design.
D: May use non-motorcycle engines. (PRIOR APPROVAL REQUIRED)
ENGINE TYPE DESCRIPTIONS
MOTORCYCLE ENGINE DEFINITION
A: Engines originally designed for use in motorcycles.
b: Engines originally designed for motorsports vehicles that were also offered
in motorcycles in a volume of 500 units.
NON-MOTORCYCLE ENGINE DEFINITION
A: Engine originally designed for automobiles or non-transportation purposes.
B: Motorsports engines not sold in motorcycles in a volume of 500+ units.
51
PRODUCTION – (P) For all engine classes.
Production engines must be the same model as the model of the frame being
used and must have STOCK EXTERNAL APPEARANCE with OEM cylinders,
heads and crankcases. OEM engine displacement determines the displacement
class for competition. Starter must be retained and operable. Carburetors or
throttle bodies must be OEM for that model production engine. ALL
PRODUCTION ENGINES RUN IN GAS (G) CLASS.
VINTAGE – (V) For all Engine Classes except Classic.
Limited to motorcycle engines produced prior to 1956. Non-OEM cases and
heads allowed so long as dimensionally equivalent to OEM.
2-STROKE (/2)
Defined as an engine operating in a 2-cycle fashion.
A: Motorcycle Engines Only - Production and Modified Frame Classes.
OHC
An engine with overhead cam operated valves as defined below.
The camshaft location must fall within the following limitations:
A: Above the valve train.
B: No more than the crankshaft stroke below the OEM cylinder deck.
C: Pushrod length less than twice the crankshaft stroke. (BMW air/oilhead.)
PUSHROD (P)
Any engine with push rod operated valves as defined below.
The camshaft location must fall within the following limitations:
A: At least one crankshaft stroke below the OEM cylinder deck position.
B: OEM pushrod length at least twice the crankshaft stroke.
C: Replacement heads must have the same number of valves as originally
produced for engines of the same series in Production.
TWIN (T)
Any 4-stroke single or twin cylinder motorcycle engine:
A: Pushrod and OHC engines (as defined above).
B: Any cylinder angles between 0 – 180 degrees for twins allowed.
C: Motorcycle Engines Only.
CLASSIC (C)
Any 4-stroke air cooled motorcycle engine:
A: Manufactured between 1956 and 1986 inclusively.
B: Non-OEM cases and heads allowed so long as dimensionally
equivalent to OEM.
C: Alteration of cooling fin design, size and placement is allowed.
D: Enhanced cooling is not permitted. (ie. water injection, nitrous oxide or
water spray, radiators, enlarged or modified oil systems.
E: Fuel system may be upgraded. OEM carbureted to remain carbureted.
F: OEM fuel injection may be retained, modified, replaced by carburetors.
G: One distributor or magneto allowed.
H: Computers allowed for data collection purposes only.
Electric (E)
Electric is defined as propulsion via electric motors only.
A: Hybrid or ICE generators used to power electric drive motors not allowed.
C: Dual drive motors allowed in Altered class only.
Electric power shall be designated in the LTA records as a fuel class:
i.e. M/E-48 = Modified/Electric – 48 volt.
my interpretation of the production rules would be that a busa must be in the 1350 class, a zx14 would be in the 1650 class, a goldwing would be in the 2000 class and a Rocket 3 would be in the 3000 class.
You would have to talk to one of the race directors to know for sure. we are allowed to race higher displacement classes in mps and aps at a disadvantage where there is no size limit based on oem specs. whatever your motor size is in that case you race that class or higher. looks like the size limit rule has been forgotten???
it would be nice to know what the rules really are as i have a friend that may have a big change in build plans for either 1350 or 1650 production
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Great speeds Steve with a bike that anyone at the corner burger joint would pawn off as stock regardless of the rules or class it fits in.
Looks like the rules would even prohibit a spacer plate under a cylinder as it states even the engine itself must have stock external appearance?
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Great speeds Steve with a bike that anyone at the corner burger joint would pawn off as stock regardless of the rules or class it fits in.
Looks like the rules would even prohibit a spacer plate under a cylinder as it states even the engine itself must have stock external appearance?
Any modifications must be out of view, and if you use a certain piston you can eliminate 90% of a spacer. No words in the rulebook say (no use of thicker base gaskets allowed) but you can't run a 1679 in a 1650 class either. But I did stay at the Caribou Inn :tu:
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Those Ti rods must be shorter than stock, i cant see that much lower piston fitted it would not need thick base plate.
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I just grabbed this from the lta site
7. MOTORCYCLES
MOTORCYCLE OVERVIEW
Motorcycle records are kept in 6 Categories:
OHC (Overhead Cam), Pushrod, 2-Stroke, Twins, Classics, Electric
Motorcycle Records are comprised of three components:
Motorcycle Class, Engine Type, Engine Displacement/Voltage
For example: MPS/CBG-1350/4 Class –Modified Partial Streamliner
Type – Classic Blown Gas
Size - 1001 - 1350cc. /4 stroke.
CHASSIS AND BODY DESCRIPTIONS
PRODUCTION (P)
A: Production Class is for motorcycles that are stock IN APPEARANCE.
B: Visible engine components must be OEM for the model.
C: Changes to the fueling system, engine, air intake, computers and exhaust
system that are not apparent to exterior view are permitted.
MODIFIED (M)
A: The modified class is for motorcycles BASED on production models.
B: No aerodynamic aids on the front. Commonly referred to as “NAKED”.
C: Removal of the front fairings is usually all that is required. (see rules.)
D: Modifications to the other bodywork is limited.
E: Modifications to the engine, swing arm, tank, pegs are allowed.
MODIFIED PARTIAL STREAMLINER (MPS) Same as Modified(M) with:
A: Aerodynamic aids allowed per rules.
B: Most modern sport bikes with a “chip and can” fall into this class.
C: Custom bodywork is allowed as defined in the rules.
ALTERED (A)
A: Altered is for specially constructed and purpose built race bikes.
B: Aerodynamic front fairings are not allowed.
C: May use 1 or 2 engines of any design.
D: May use non-motorcycle engines. (PRIOR APPROVAL REQUIRED)
ALTERED PARTIAL STREAMLINER (APS) Same as Altered(A) with:
A: Aerodynamic fairings allowed. The rider must be visible per the rules.
B: Modified Class motorcycles with custom APS fairings fall into APS.
SIDECAR (SC)
A: Modified or Altered class motorcycles with a sidecar attached.
B: Riders are not permitted.
STREAMLINER (S) AND SIDECAR STREAMLINER (SCS)
A: Extensive design and construction required.
B: Roll cage, fire suppression, driver restraints, fire suit, etc. required.
C: May use 1 or 2 engines of any design.
D: May use non-motorcycle engines. (PRIOR APPROVAL REQUIRED)
ENGINE TYPE DESCRIPTIONS
MOTORCYCLE ENGINE DEFINITION
A: Engines originally designed for use in motorcycles.
b: Engines originally designed for motorsports vehicles that were also offered
in motorcycles in a volume of 500 units.
NON-MOTORCYCLE ENGINE DEFINITION
A: Engine originally designed for automobiles or non-transportation purposes.
B: Motorsports engines not sold in motorcycles in a volume of 500+ units.
51
PRODUCTION – (P) For all engine classes.
Production engines must be the same model as the model of the frame being
used and must have STOCK EXTERNAL APPEARANCE with OEM cylinders,
heads and crankcases. OEM engine displacement determines the displacement
class for competition. Starter must be retained and operable. Carburetors or
throttle bodies must be OEM for that model production engine. ALL
PRODUCTION ENGINES RUN IN GAS (G) CLASS.
VINTAGE – (V) For all Engine Classes except Classic.
Limited to motorcycle engines produced prior to 1956. Non-OEM cases and
heads allowed so long as dimensionally equivalent to OEM.
2-STROKE (/2)
Defined as an engine operating in a 2-cycle fashion.
A: Motorcycle Engines Only - Production and Modified Frame Classes.
OHC
An engine with overhead cam operated valves as defined below.
The camshaft location must fall within the following limitations:
A: Above the valve train.
B: No more than the crankshaft stroke below the OEM cylinder deck.
C: Pushrod length less than twice the crankshaft stroke. (BMW air/oilhead.)
PUSHROD (P)
Any engine with push rod operated valves as defined below.
The camshaft location must fall within the following limitations:
A: At least one crankshaft stroke below the OEM cylinder deck position.
B: OEM pushrod length at least twice the crankshaft stroke.
C: Replacement heads must have the same number of valves as originally
produced for engines of the same series in Production.
TWIN (T)
Any 4-stroke single or twin cylinder motorcycle engine:
A: Pushrod and OHC engines (as defined above).
B: Any cylinder angles between 0 – 180 degrees for twins allowed.
C: Motorcycle Engines Only.
CLASSIC (C)
Any 4-stroke air cooled motorcycle engine:
A: Manufactured between 1956 and 1986 inclusively.
B: Non-OEM cases and heads allowed so long as dimensionally
equivalent to OEM.
C: Alteration of cooling fin design, size and placement is allowed.
D: Enhanced cooling is not permitted. (ie. water injection, nitrous oxide or
water spray, radiators, enlarged or modified oil systems.
E: Fuel system may be upgraded. OEM carbureted to remain carbureted.
F: OEM fuel injection may be retained, modified, replaced by carburetors.
G: One distributor or magneto allowed.
H: Computers allowed for data collection purposes only.
Electric (E)
Electric is defined as propulsion via electric motors only.
A: Hybrid or ICE generators used to power electric drive motors not allowed.
C: Dual drive motors allowed in Altered class only.
Electric power shall be designated in the LTA records as a fuel class:
i.e. M/E-48 = Modified/Electric – 48 volt.
my interpretation of the production rules would be that a busa must be in the 1350 class, a zx14 would be in the 1650 class, a goldwing would be in the 2000 class and a Rocket 3 would be in the 3000 class.
You would have to talk to one of the race directors to know for sure. we are allowed to race higher displacement classes in mps and aps at a disadvantage where there is no size limit based on oem specs. whatever your motor size is in that case you race that class or higher. looks like the size limit rule has been forgotten???
it would be nice to know what the rules really are as i have a friend that may have a big change in build plans for either 1350 or 1650 production
[/quote
Goldwings and Rockets have never raced on paved venues that I know of. Its easier to just have it like it is, that way eveyone has a chance with a nice stroker 14 or Busa build like all P/P1650- 3000 records bikes are now. Its been this way since the early Maxton days. Norhing has changed. That would be silly to think Goldwings would show up. Never once.
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Those Ti rods must be shorter than stock, i cant see that much lower piston fitted it would not need thick base plate.
Short rods for tons of torque
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Goldwings and Rockets have never raced on paved venues that I know of. Its easier to just have it like it is, that way eveyone has a chance with a nice stroker 14 or Busa build like all P/P1650- 3000 records bikes are now. Its been this way since the early Maxton days. Norhing has changed. That would be silly to think Goldwings would show up. Never once.
Would it still be nice to see more different bikes, even if they dont come even close to Busas speeds.
During the 12 years i been going to local speed events, i wanted to see more Italian bikes, Hondas, Yamahas, but no, sometimes its been 32 Busas, 3 Kawasakis, and one BMW.
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Goldwings and Rockets have never raced on paved venues that I know of. Its easier to just have it like it is, that way eveyone has a chance with a nice stroker 14 or Busa build like all P/P1650- 3000 records bikes are now. Its been this way since the early Maxton days. Norhing has changed. That would be silly to think Goldwings would show up. Never once.
Would it still be nice to see more different bikes, even if they dont come even close to Busas speeds.
During the 12 years i been going to local speed events, i wanted to see more Italian bikes, Hondas, Yamahas, but no, sometimes its been 32 Busas, 3 Kawasakis, and one BMW.
That's because they are speed events...there are plenty of others at road racing events, and usually no Hayabusas. Every once in awhile you get an oddball that tries to use some off the wall platform in drag racing as well.....if they stick with it, it usually results in whining that somehow the rules aren't fair :liebe084:
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Sorta like the cookie cutter pro street class!!! it gets old seeing the same old busas with the same configuration. I would like to see the rules change to allow a more variety of bikes like BMW 1000s, MVs, and maybe a few Goldwings, Rockets and a Slinshot or two. The gray areas in their rulebooks just get taken advantage of. Sometimes in certain racing venus those type of bikes just aren't built to compete at such a high level of performance.
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Steve, what kind of rules changes do you think might work?
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Just being nice.
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I just grabbed this from the lta site
7. MOTORCYCLES
MOTORCYCLE OVERVIEW
Motorcycle records are kept in 6 Categories:
OHC (Overhead Cam), Pushrod, 2-Stroke, Twins, Classics, Electric
Motorcycle Records are comprised of three components:
Motorcycle Class, Engine Type, Engine Displacement/Voltage
For example: MPS/CBG-1350/4 Class –Modified Partial Streamliner
Type – Classic Blown Gas
Size - 1001 - 1350cc. /4 stroke.
CHASSIS AND BODY DESCRIPTIONS
PRODUCTION (P)
A: Production Class is for motorcycles that are stock IN APPEARANCE.
B: Visible engine components must be OEM for the model.
C: Changes to the fueling system, engine, air intake, computers and exhaust
system that are not apparent to exterior view are permitted.
MODIFIED (M)
A: The modified class is for motorcycles BASED on production models.
B: No aerodynamic aids on the front. Commonly referred to as “NAKED”.
C: Removal of the front fairings is usually all that is required. (see rules.)
D: Modifications to the other bodywork is limited.
E: Modifications to the engine, swing arm, tank, pegs are allowed.
MODIFIED PARTIAL STREAMLINER (MPS) Same as Modified(M) with:
A: Aerodynamic aids allowed per rules.
B: Most modern sport bikes with a “chip and can” fall into this class.
C: Custom bodywork is allowed as defined in the rules.
ALTERED (A)
A: Altered is for specially constructed and purpose built race bikes.
B: Aerodynamic front fairings are not allowed.
C: May use 1 or 2 engines of any design.
D: May use non-motorcycle engines. (PRIOR APPROVAL REQUIRED)
ALTERED PARTIAL STREAMLINER (APS) Same as Altered(A) with:
A: Aerodynamic fairings allowed. The rider must be visible per the rules.
B: Modified Class motorcycles with custom APS fairings fall into APS.
SIDECAR (SC)
A: Modified or Altered class motorcycles with a sidecar attached.
B: Riders are not permitted.
STREAMLINER (S) AND SIDECAR STREAMLINER (SCS)
A: Extensive design and construction required.
B: Roll cage, fire suppression, driver restraints, fire suit, etc. required.
C: May use 1 or 2 engines of any design.
D: May use non-motorcycle engines. (PRIOR APPROVAL REQUIRED)
ENGINE TYPE DESCRIPTIONS
MOTORCYCLE ENGINE DEFINITION
A: Engines originally designed for use in motorcycles.
b: Engines originally designed for motorsports vehicles that were also offered
in motorcycles in a volume of 500 units.
NON-MOTORCYCLE ENGINE DEFINITION
A: Engine originally designed for automobiles or non-transportation purposes.
B: Motorsports engines not sold in motorcycles in a volume of 500+ units.
51
PRODUCTION – (P) For all engine classes.
Production engines must be the same model as the model of the frame being
used and must have STOCK EXTERNAL APPEARANCE with OEM cylinders,
heads and crankcases. OEM engine displacement determines the displacement
class for competition. Starter must be retained and operable. Carburetors or
throttle bodies must be OEM for that model production engine. ALL
PRODUCTION ENGINES RUN IN GAS (G) CLASS.
VINTAGE – (V) For all Engine Classes except Classic.
Limited to motorcycle engines produced prior to 1956. Non-OEM cases and
heads allowed so long as dimensionally equivalent to OEM.
2-STROKE (/2)
Defined as an engine operating in a 2-cycle fashion.
A: Motorcycle Engines Only - Production and Modified Frame Classes.
OHC
An engine with overhead cam operated valves as defined below.
The camshaft location must fall within the following limitations:
A: Above the valve train.
B: No more than the crankshaft stroke below the OEM cylinder deck.
C: Pushrod length less than twice the crankshaft stroke. (BMW air/oilhead.)
PUSHROD (P)
Any engine with push rod operated valves as defined below.
The camshaft location must fall within the following limitations:
A: At least one crankshaft stroke below the OEM cylinder deck position.
B: OEM pushrod length at least twice the crankshaft stroke.
C: Replacement heads must have the same number of valves as originally
produced for engines of the same series in Production.
TWIN (T)
Any 4-stroke single or twin cylinder motorcycle engine:
A: Pushrod and OHC engines (as defined above).
B: Any cylinder angles between 0 – 180 degrees for twins allowed.
C: Motorcycle Engines Only.
CLASSIC (C)
Any 4-stroke air cooled motorcycle engine:
A: Manufactured between 1956 and 1986 inclusively.
B: Non-OEM cases and heads allowed so long as dimensionally
equivalent to OEM.
C: Alteration of cooling fin design, size and placement is allowed.
D: Enhanced cooling is not permitted. (ie. water injection, nitrous oxide or
water spray, radiators, enlarged or modified oil systems.
E: Fuel system may be upgraded. OEM carbureted to remain carbureted.
F: OEM fuel injection may be retained, modified, replaced by carburetors.
G: One distributor or magneto allowed.
H: Computers allowed for data collection purposes only.
Electric (E)
Electric is defined as propulsion via electric motors only.
A: Hybrid or ICE generators used to power electric drive motors not allowed.
C: Dual drive motors allowed in Altered class only.
Electric power shall be designated in the LTA records as a fuel class:
i.e. M/E-48 = Modified/Electric – 48 volt.
my interpretation of the production rules would be that a busa must be in the 1350 class, a zx14 would be in the 1650 class, a goldwing would be in the 2000 class and a Rocket 3 would be in the 3000 class.
You would have to talk to one of the race directors to know for sure. we are allowed to race higher displacement classes in mps and aps at a disadvantage where there is no size limit based on oem specs. whatever your motor size is in that case you race that class or higher. looks like the size limit rule has been forgotten???
it would be nice to know what the rules really are as i have a friend that may have a big change in build plans for either 1350 or 1650 production
Goldwings and Rockets have never raced on paved venues that I know of. Its easier to just have it like it is, that way eveyone has a chance with a nice stroker 14 or Busa build like all P/P1650- 3000 records bikes are now. Its been this way since the early Maxton days. Norhing has changed. That would be silly to think Goldwings would show up. Never once.
its not that silly, it leaves records available for people with big displacement production a bikes a place to race and get records. maybe not a goldwing, but a vmax. they cant compete with bikes like yours with more into the motor than they spent on their whole bike so why would they show up? the name of the game is getting more racers and fans there right? so that the events continue to happen? we might have 5 racers go if there was just 1 unlimited class, the event would be unaffordable, and would cease to exist after a couple races. if your motor doesnt fit into a production class, you race where it fits, like MPS 2000 or 3000.
just my 2 cents on my interpretation of the rules.
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the name of the game is getting more racers and fans there right? so that the events continue to happen?
This is what i been thinking for years, you cant have these events too big,
When some biker been asking me what is this land speeding about, and next comment was , he wants to come but wont when he does not have what it takes to compete with fast bikes... what the hell... its about the experience and getting better on what ever bike he rides.
( i am not sure how it is in US , but here it also includes getting few beers afterwards and talking about the experiences with both, pros and amateurs)
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Roo you make a great point, I've been saying for years that there are too many fabricated records, like, worlds or earths fastest without FIM timing slips, people just make them up to fit their configuration, ego,and speed. The only true production class records are sanctioned by the AMA and displacement, configuration, and modifications are all inspected. ECTA, SCTA and the others are just club racing, records are club, track or event records, nothing else period, there are no World or National records at these events, same for Speed Week, World of Speed Etc....
I might agree if it wasn't a team that has such a long and storied history at Bonneville. I think the Forstall crew can compete anywhere (and have, with huge success), but chose this bike and venue according to the rules. So what's your point? It doesn't meet your standards? I bet Steve is OK with that. -Dean
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Dean,,,Your first statement is contradictory, work on that please.
Its all about protecting the sanctity and validity of the sport, its not mine or any one individuals standards.
Before you know it there will be 15 people making same claims of the fastest in whatever class they chose, especially on this forum, it has become rather silly to hear of all the fabricated records on this forum.
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Dean,,,Your first statement is contradictory, work on that please.
Its all about protecting the sanctity and validity of the sport, its not mine or any one individuals standards.
Before you know it there will be 15 people making same claims of the fastest in whatever class they chose, especially on this forum, it has become rather silly to hear of all the fabricated records on this forum.
Fabricated records? I'm done with trying to explain what we've been doing for years in multiple venues. Just Google me!! No more comments from me. SMH!!
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:playnice:
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I almost took the bait. Thanks for your service to the sport Kerry, you are a true hero.
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I almost took the bait. Thanks for your service to the sport Kerry, you are a true hero.
Stink bait!!! :punk:
But really,, all 15 of you here on this forum cant claim to be the worlds/ earths/ nations, fastest, you guys just make up shit on a whim and expect your 14 other buddies on the forum to believe that you and they are the fastest in the world/ earth.
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There was a Kawi a few months ago claiming to be the earth fastest production bike, so many here (all 15 of you )
really flamed that story. His claim is just as valid as other claims on this forum. Garbage in-Garbage out.
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Here is my new RSV4, just got it today. What an amazing bike, its the earths fastest 1000cc bike and I have not even raced it yet!!!
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Fabricated records? I'm done with trying to explain what we've been doing for years in multiple venues. Just Google me!! No more comments from me. SMH!!
[/quote]
Rules is rules, play within them and theres nothing to explain,,
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There was a Kawi a few months ago claiming to be the earth fastest production bike, so many here (all 15 of you )
really flamed that story. His claim is just as valid as other claims on this forum. Garbage in-Garbage out.
Kenan from Turkey ?
I hear about him every now and then. Just recently one friend found the article and said if i know about this Kawasaki rider who ran 0-400kmh (248.5mph) in 26 seconds, haw fast were you ?
At first i told him that it was only speedo reading on the H2R , and no-one truly knows how fast he went.
Also my turbobusa goes 23s from 0-400kmh.
My intention is to get the best speed without using aftermarket ecu or boost control, is there a class for that ?
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Well, I’ve read enough.
Let’s see are we talking about FIM? The organization that turned their back on Bonneville for 20+ years, until they started getting paid to attend? Funny how this site tries to maintain/combine records from more than 12 different international venues, which are nearly equally represented. While 95% of the FIM world speed records come from how many different venues? So, who is keeping club or track racing records?
Yes, I do respect FIM records, but also SCTA, LTA, as well as others. Is there issues and concerns about these records? Of course they are, but I am aware of most of those issues. Does it upset me? NO. I know what the rulebook says and what speeds are “reasonable” for each class. But personally, I am not after a piece of paper or accolade from others, I compete against myself.
Should we police ourselves? Yes. But “in the real world” that includes the self-centered narcissist masses who believe and react to everything they see on the Internet; they don’t care. “They” believe that an H2R going a speedo indicated 400 kph is the fastest motorcycle on earth.
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Is there a Production/F class so you could throw on a Tiger Racing bracket and a nitrous bottle under the hump?
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Is there a Production/F class so you could throw on a Tiger Racing bracket and a nitrous bottle under the hump?
I believe thats covered by this:
ALL PRODUCTION ENGINES RUN IN GAS (G) CLASS.
but if we are ignoring this:
OEM engine displacement determines the displacement class for competition.
Whos to say someone wont try to run a hidden nitrous system next? a 50 shot is a lot more affordable than a monster motor
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As unpopular as I or my opinions may be at least there discussions are starting and some are able to see that we do need to police our selves and compare Apple's to apples, have some sense of regulation and rules instead of several racers making the same claim. Just last week at the Colorado Mile a racer ran high 240's and claimed the track record which is correct. There are several of the earth or world fastest production bikes , who has validity?
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A few years ago a guy on a 600 was trying to have a record for having the most records and pay tribute to bill by getting 311 records, he was upclassing, sideclassing, running NA in forced induction classesand running multiple classes in the same pass for multiple records, basicly cherrypicking , and finding flaws within event rules, how valid is that? And the club or event let it happen.
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So now you are going to Bash Greg Neal?
Why in non production classes do you have a problem with people running "up classes"
Do you even race at any of the venues we are discussing?
Just wondering
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Greg Neal has the worlds fastest standing mile and 1.5 mile naturally aspirated 650 class speeds of 190.9 and 195.6 respectively. Chew on those numbers...
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Greg Neal has the worlds fastest standing mile and 1.5 mile naturally aspirated 650 class speeds of 190.9 and 195.6 respectively. Chew on those numbers...
650 :nannybobo:
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Great job Steve and Larry.
Congrats to you both!!! :tu:
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As unpopular as I or my opinions may be at least there discussions are starting and some are able to see that we do need to police our selves and compare Apple's to apples, have some sense of regulation and rules instead of several racers making the same claim. Just last week at the Colorado Mile a racer ran high 240's and claimed the track record which is correct. There are several of the earth or world fastest production bikes , who has validity?
I have an idea. If I read the FIM rules correctly, while they have some very specific regulations about the venue size, I do believe that Loring, Maine meets the venue requirements for the standing mile. Why don't you check and see what it would cost to have FIM to be present for an event at Loring?
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That would be great if someone got the FIM involved in these events. Cost would be high and Their track requirements are strick.
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I thought the biggest problem was they insist on running both directions
most track will have a problem with that
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"OEM Engine Displacement", read, "OEM ENGINE DISPLACEMENT" determines the displacement class for competition,,
I guess their rules are pick and choose the ones you comply with.
Pretty soon Club LSR will become a shit show like NASCAR and pro wrestling.
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I thought the biggest problem was they insist on running both directions
most track will have a problem with that
FIM World Records have been set at Elvington,,
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Fabricated records? I'm done with trying to explain what we've been doing for years in multiple venues. Just Google me!! No more comments from me. SMH!!
Rules is rules, play within them and theres nothing to explain,,
[/quote]
True.
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Straight from Wikipedia!!! Describing Professional Wresting and how it used to be a valid sport, do we want the same for Motorcycle Land Speed Racing? I think not.
Professional wrestling in the United States, until the 1920s, was viewed as a legitimate sport. This view did not endure into the 1930s, as professional wrestling became identified with modern theatrics, or "admitted fakeness" ("kayfabe"), moving away from being a showcase for true competition. The scripted nature of the art has made critics view it as an illegitimate sport, particularly in comparison to boxing, mixed martial arts, amateur wrestling, and the real sport itself, wrestling. No major promoter or wrestler denies that modern professional wrestling has predetermined match outcomes.
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I thought the biggest problem was they insist on running both directions
most track will have a problem with that
FIM World Records have been set at Elvington,,
Where is it? Is it a dry lake bed?
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In England, old RAF runway.
https://straightlinersonline.co.uk/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2789118/fastest-woman-world-revealed-british-mother-two-scunthorpe-smashed-land-speed-record-going-264mph-motorbike-husband-built-garage.html
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Ive contacted the LTA race director and the event director and they say running a production bike in an engine displacement class above what the oem size falls into makes it ILLEGAL. so the maximum size for a hayabusa or zx12 would be 1350cc. the max size for a 14 would be the 1650 class. A Hayabusa bigger than 1350cc has to run in MPS in the appropriate displacement class even if it appears to be oem. They allow running up in displacement in other classes as theres no oem size limit rule in those, just Production.
Sorry Steve, its a great accomplishment, but you entered a class that was not available. I was thinking about building a 1650 production bike with a friend, but using his 12 would render that illegal as well.
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@Scott,, Interesting,,, I bet that makes a lot of prior records invalid. Again,, we all need to protect the validity of our sport.
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:fiddy:
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World records are only sanctioned by the FIM, period....
Is that some generally agreed upon thing or is it just a statement made by FIM to get folks to pay for their services?
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Ive contacted the LTA race director and the event director and they say running a production bike in an engine displacement class above what the oem size falls into makes it ILLEGAL. so the maximum size for a hayabusa or zx12 would be 1350cc. the max size for a 14 would be the 1650 class. A Hayabusa bigger than 1350cc has to run in MPS in the appropriate displacement class even if it appears to be oem. They allow running up in displacement in other classes as theres no oem size limit rule in those, just Production.
Sorry Steve, its a great accomplishment, but you entered a class that was not available. I was thinking about building a 1650 production bike with a friend, but using his 12 would render that illegal as well.
Whats funny is, I told the event director my engine size right to his face. He knew I was running Production and my exact engine size and I passed tech. I think we hurt some feelings with my 220+ speed ! For someone that doesn't run the class and to go out of his way to make sure that I am certainly in a wrong class, for I assume mainly because I went 220. I ran 220 with a stock appearing, foot shifting, stock height Production bodied class motorcycle. I didn't enter the 1350 class, I didn't spray NOS, I used VP race fuel. I didn't do anything different then I have since the Maxton days of doing the same thing, and there are other racers that hold records in the Prod class that are stll in the books of Ohio and LTA that run strokers. So they are invalid as well?
How is it fair for a 14 to be able to stroke and bore their motor to 1650 and run PP 1650?. That means only a 14 would hold the Prod records in PP1650 class. It would only make sense to allow a Busa to do the same thing. So you say a Busa couldn't even run up a class to 1650?, but a 14 can be bored and stroked. Thats just stupid. I think if maybe I would've kept it to a speed of 210, there wouldn't be big stink about all this. My goal was to go the fastest as a Production bodied bike and I did it!!! regardless of the class CC limit rules that you inforced. Maybe you should start analyzing the current record book for some more illegal entrants.
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World records are only sanctioned by the FIM, period....
Is that some generally agreed upon thing or is it just a statement made by FIM to get folks to pay for their services?
That means even in all of NHRA and IDBL they are not World Records are they ? They are club records and I would be ok with that!! They are Personal Records for me, thats all that matters. I've had FIM records, they were broke like records are meant to be
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World records are only sanctioned by the FIM, period....
Is that some generally agreed upon thing or is it just a statement made by FIM to get folks to pay for their services?
and isn't it funny how FIM uses SCTA timing equipment on the same track as SCTA for their own "world" records?
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World records are only sanctioned by the FIM, period....
Is that some generally agreed upon thing or is it just a statement made by FIM to get folks to pay for their services?
That means even in all of NHRA and IDBL they are not World Records are they ? They are club records and I would be ok with that!! They are Personal Records for me, thats all that matters. I've had FIM records, they were broke like records are meant to be
Very true about records being meant to be broken, I land speed race for me. I have a long term goal and if someone goes faster than me , yes I have a momentary paing of jealousy But then smile and am happy for them. I have never told anyone I have a "world record" I HAD a naked record at Loring,
I am Not a fan of "one governing body" in sport.
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Posts: 624Gender:
Re: FASTEST PRODUCTION BIKE ON EARTH
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2017, 11:27:10 AM »
Quote
Ive contacted the LTA race director and the event director and they say running a production bike in an engine displacement class above what the oem size falls into makes it ILLEGAL.
One Adam 12, One Adam 12, see the man that complaining about a Prod Bodied Busa going about as fast as an MPS bike!! :moon:
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Ive contacted the LTA race director and the event director and they say running a production bike in an engine displacement class above what the oem size falls into makes it ILLEGAL. so the maximum size for a hayabusa or zx12 would be 1350cc. the max size for a 14 would be the 1650 class. A Hayabusa bigger than 1350cc has to run in MPS in the appropriate displacement class even if it appears to be oem. They allow running up in displacement in other classes as theres no oem size limit rule in those, just Production.
Sorry Steve, its a great accomplishment, but you entered a class that was not available. I was thinking about building a 1650 production bike with a friend, but using his 12 would render that illegal as well.
Whats funny is, I told the event director my engine size right to his face. He knew I was running Production and my exact engine size and I passed tech. I think we hurt some feelings with my 220+ speed ! For someone that doesn't run the class and to go out of his way to make sure that I am certainly in a wrong class, for I assume mainly because I went 220. I ran 220 with a stock appearing, foot shifting, stock height Production bodied class motorcycle. I didn't enter the 1350 class, I didn't spray NOS, I used VP race fuel. I didn't do anything different then I have since the Maxton days of doing the same thing, and there are other racers that hold records in the Prod class that are stll in the books of Ohio and LTA that run strokers. So they are invalid as well?
How is it fair for a 14 to be able to stroke and bore their motor to 1650 and run PP 1650?. That means only a 14 would hold the Prod records in PP1650 class. It would only make sense to allow a Busa to do the same thing. So you say a Busa couldn't even run up a class to 1650?, but a 14 can be bored and stroked. Thats just stupid. I think if maybe I would've kept it to a speed of 210, there wouldn't be big stink about all this. My goal was to go the fastest as a Production bodied bike and I did it!!! regardless of the class CC limit rules that you inforced. Maybe you should start analyzing the current record book for some more illegal entrants.
I would guess they forgot about the rule as running in bigger displacement classes is common and allowed in MPS and APS. However most people building bikes for a specific class tend to look at the rules... Im guessing you forgot about the rule as well, or (unlikely) you hoped nobody would call you on it. I didnt even know it existed until it was mentioned in this thread and i looked it up. Like i said above, Im interested in doing a production bike with a friend, so im now interested in the rules as i dont want to take an illegal bike like you did.
regardless of what you consider stupid, a zx14 is under the 1650cc limit and over 1350cc so yes it can be made bigger, the same as any other bike that falls in that class. so you dont have to worry about any 14s taking a legit 1350 production record. you may need to be wary of a 12 ;)
ps how am I enforcing rules? im just talking about it.
im perfectly fine with you claiming to have the worlds fastest production looking bike, you did a great job building and driving. but claiming worlds fastest production bike is a bit of a lie if it was illegal for the class is it not?? production looking could have a 150 shot added if its stealth and blow that 220 out of the water, hence the need for rules and classes
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RANT OVER !!!
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Maxton in its inception, let (ALL) classes bump up an engine size class, not DOWN. This was done to bring in more revenue to the organization. LTA to my knowledge followed the same PAVEMENT rules when it became LTA, as did The Ohio Mile. If you look at the Ohio Mile Pavement records, the Production 1650 and 3000 records exist with engines built like mine, actually one of them I built. These are existing records that are retired. Maxton did the same thing and they are retired as records STILL!!! My records that I broke in the 2000 and 3000 class were EXISTING records, and they were set in 2017 and that person got into the 200MPH club in the class P/P 2000-G setting a record. They were Production bikes that are built in the same manner as mine. They were stroker mountain motors! That follow the Pavement LSR rules. These are not SCTA rules!!! So that being said, why would all of the sudden my records be invalid when a I broke an existing record that was held by a Prod bike built the same way? Ok so now you want to change the rules, that's fine!! but you would change them for 2018. It would be totally unfair to take my records away when I broke existing records as stated earlier. So what you would do is RETIRE those existing records that has everyone's pantys in a bunch. That should clear things up for the existing records and records set in the future for the Production Class.
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Rant over
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This guy has the Worlds Fastest production bike. :punk: :deathmetal:
https://www.knfilters.com/news/news.aspx?id=2461
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Some sections of this thread do appear to be a "rant", (muddying the waters) however this discussion has to be had,, I agree totally with KZScotts comments, thay are factual and right on subject 🙂
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A
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So you employ jockeys and don't race your own bikes?
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Dont you think you have too many different classes in US for land speed bikes.
If you define the bike to last detail what it can have or cant have, there is very small window what the speed will be.
Years ago when i rode my n/a Busa and changed the motor and setup every year, of course to make it faster every time, my friend stepped up with this simulation software, he asked me the power curve, gearing i was using and the weather for the day when the event was. He calculated the speed in less than 1mph, and since then the LSR never been the same for me, no magical speed increases or records anymore, and if there is , you should check the timing , there is always an explanation.
If we had the same rules you have in US, we could stay at home and calculate what the speeds would be.
But, fortunately , there is the weather , and turbos , which can create surprises, also mr Murphy.
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Dont you think you have too many different classes in US for land speed bikes.
If you define the bike to last detail what it can have or cant have, there is very small window what the speed will be.
Years ago when i rode my n/a Busa and changed the motor and setup every year, of course to make it faster every time, my friend stepped up with this simulation software, he asked me the power curve, gearing i was using and the weather for the day when the event was. He calculated the speed in less than 1mph, and since then the LSR never been the same for me, no magical speed increases or records anymore, and if there is , you should check the timing , there is always an explanation.
If we had the same rules you have in US, we could stay at home and calculate what the speeds would be.
But, fortunately , there is the weather , and turbos , which can create surprises, also mr Murphy.
No we are fine with the classs. We actually run those speeds, not calculated speeds.
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If your meaning SCTA, USFRA, yes there are a lot of classes,AMA is pretty close to them too , FIM is much more simple if you can work out there terminology and actually find the records listed
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My opinion is this:
The rulebook says, for PP, "OEM engine displacement determines class for competition."
That would seem to be cut and dry. But if we have people on ZX14R's running PP3000, and getting in the club (which recently occurred, I believe I witnessed)....then I am not sure how we interpret that rule.
For clarity, maybe it needs to be specified in the rulebook..."no running above maximum base class displacement".
As far as what Steve has said, if he told Tim the details, and then Tim allowed it...well, you would have to ask Tim.
Nonetheless, it will all get square, one way or the other, I am sure of that. :)
Shane
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No we are fine with the classs. We actually run those speeds, not calculated speeds.
That is fine then sir, so do we.
It just takes part of the fun out when guy comes to pit and goes through the bikes and says what speeds they will run, and he is mostly right.
But then, the riders know each other for years, and know the builds and projects beforehand, (this also includes drinking beer together)
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Thats cool too !!! As long as we are all having fun right?
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So you employ jockeys and don't race your own bikes?
Haha, you so funny ;) they pay me..
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LTA, SCTA and DLRA rules state that the competitor is responsible for nominating which class he runs in, it is not up to the officials,,
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My team first ran in the "production" class
at Bonneville in 1976 - so it's been more than 40 years for us.
My memory is that most venues require the PROFILE
of the bike to be "standard," any look "showroom."
In the 1970's, there was (the very faint) hope this would
lead to more "factory interest in LSR, and so
more visibility for the sport - with the assumption
that the factories would use
their accomplishments in advertising.
Early on, the displacement was
NOT limited to the "original" class.
Many competitors would "bore and stroke"
a bike to enter a higher displacement engine class.
HOWEVER, they were limited to the original
size and type of carbs and exhaust pipes.
My eventual partner in the CAR side
of the team, JACK DOLAN, always
thought that "boring out" was silly !
"The problem with that is if you
enlarge a 750 bike to 999cc,
the carbs and pipes are too small.
Let's take a 1000cc bike,
and reduce it to 750cc,
and get big pipes and carbs 'for free.'"
Over time, most rules change and mature.
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Speaking of factory bikes: It was great to see Polaris, uh I mean Indian, on the salt this year. Maybe some of the other bike companies will get the hint.
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"OEM engine displacement determines the displacement
class for competition"
I must be missing something here, which is not unusual.
So humor me, but I have a question.
My question is this:
It says oem engine size determines the class.
So, for "Production", you are required to enter the class of 1299 cc if you have a Busa. There is no 1299 class, and assuming the way things normally work, you enter the class that is not OVER the engine size you have, which would be the 1350 class.
But this is not the normal case. Normally, at pavent tracks, you are always allowed to enter in a BIGGER class than what your engine would fit UNDER.
However, where does it say in the in the rules quoted above that your engine cannot be MORE cc's (larger) than the "Production" class it is REQUIRED to enter based on it's ORIGINAL size? It just says that is the CLASS you have to enter, along with the stock appearance stuff. I do not see where it says it cannot be a LARGER engine if it is stock in appearance. Is that written somewhere else? Specifically, as to the "Production" class? I would think that would be the case in this instance. If not, it should be explicitly stated, not implied. The way the rule is written, as quoted above, is very specific regarding the ENTRY into the "Production" class regarding ORIGINAL engine size. This would appear that is something, to my somewhat limited knowledge, that is unique to that class. I do not believe any other class "REQUIRES" entry into a specific class based on what the model's ORIGINAL engine size was.
Enlighten me, please.
Thanks,
Walt
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And if Steve cleared it with race direction, what more could he possibly do?
Even if he didnt, common practice has always been to allow someone to run up in class.
For decades.
From what I read, and again, I may be wrong, in most legal venues, regardless of what is on the law books (or race rule books), what is commonly practiced in the "real world" that my be unclear or even contrary to what is written in the law (race rule books) can be interpreted by the courts (or race direction) as what has become "reasonable and customary", and is/will be allowed to continue to occur.
It is called "precedent" (old race records set).
Walt
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Walt, the 1999-2017 Busa would fit into the 1350cc P class, the ZX14 would fit in the 1650 P class and so on. You can run up the classes like we have been. Starting next yr there will be a True Prod class where none of that's allowed. So it opens up another set of classes that people can go after records in a Prod class. My records will still be there for people to break and should not be that hard as long as they have about the same HP. I don't know about installing straps to lower the frontal area in the Prod classes though. I don't feel that's legal.
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I think steve got shafted... director should have chirped right away about the bike being noncompliant... he knew the engine size before the run.....steves reputation and status in the industry has never been disputed by anyone.... unless u think steve is a liar and has no integrity.... that's like calling Muhammad Ali a pussy.
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I think steve got shafted... director should have chirped right away about the bike being noncompliant... he knew the engine size before the run.....steves reputation and status in the industry has never been disputed by anyone.... unless u think steve is a liar and has no integrity.... that's like calling Muhammad Ali a pussy.
Thank you, but I didn't get shafted. My records stand.