SuzukiHayabusa.org
GENERAL => MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE => Topic started by: THEMOTORHEAD on November 07, 2003, 09:05:00 PM
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WHAT TYPE YA LIKE?
STREET I HAVE BEEN RUNNING OEM BT56J
BONNEVILLE SHAVED PILOT SPORT HPX
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I'm a street only guy. I'll stick with the 020's.
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rennsports, gonna try shinko's soon....for runnin around O-town
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shinko for top end
hmm
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Can Shinkos be shaved?
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persobnally i hate shaved tires
i run oem non shaved tires
have gone 240 on em with no issues
oem tires grow less than the pilots and a few others
don't shinkos have a low ass speed rating ?
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Beats me.Going that fast on oem tires--man--how often do you check your tire pressure? (http://images/smiles/icon_wink.gif)
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Living over here in Germany, I have the opportunity to do 200+ at will, BUT... The last time out,on BT56's, I went 190 indicated for 15 minutes straight! When I pulled over to wait for the others my Tires had lost nearly all their tread! (http://images/smiles/icon_eek.gif) I don't think pushing 200 mph for a long period of time is worth it, regardless of brand. (http://images/smiles/converted/no.gif) They were Blistered!
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quote:
Originally posted by Scary-Jerry:
I have the opportunity to do 200+ at will, BUT... I went 190 indicated for 15 minutes straight!
Oh so there is a place called heaven?
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Heaven? Yes, it's called the autobahn. 300kph speed limit, hence the 186mph restriction. The proper air pressure and Rennsports and you wouldn't have that problem of blistering.
Guy (http://images/smiles/converted/kickass.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by Scary-Jerry:
Living over here in Germany, I have the opportunity to do 200+ at will, BUT... The last time out,on BT56's, I went 190 indicated for 15 minutes straight! When I pulled over to wait for the others my Tires had lost nearly all their tread! (http://images/smiles/icon_eek.gif) I don't think pushing 200 mph for a long period of time is worth it, regardless of brand. (http://images/smiles/converted/no.gif) They were Blistered!
was the bike evr on the dyno?
hell i have gone 200 for mile before
bout 5 or 6
and also done in the 220 230 ranges for several
no blister or anything
but i do not run tires run on dynos up top
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gps is super accurate up top
under hard early accelleration it can fall behind alot
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Yep gps is dead on at top speed as long as you give it a second or two to lock the speed.
obviously it's dead on at lower speeds as well just stays a step or two behind when your in it hard.
I'll set the cruise in my car sometimes and watch the speedo on the gps adjust in tenths of a mph. (http://images/smiles/icon_wink.gif) the're accurate trust me. (http://images/smiles/converted/yes.gif)
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Depending on conditions,air,traction etc,you will need a minimum of 200,more would be better.And at those speeds aerodynamics is more important than HP so anything you can do to get rid of drag will help.
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Running on salt lakes.What is the best tire?
You have bonneville,we have lake gardnier in Australia.
Is it best to put on slicks?
Whats shving the tires mean?
Any information will do.
Thanks.
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hay ozbusa where ya from mate ? Im in Canberra and run at Lake gairdner Im a DLRA member get in touch lsr350@hotmail.com
shaved tyres means that you have most of the tread removed by buffing , it helps in keeping the growth of the tyre down caused by centrifugal force im running michlin HPX 180/55 rear and same up front 120/55 both wheels and tyres have been statically and dynamically ballanced with steel stems and metal caps
Hawkwind (http://images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)
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Im suprised none of the "big" tire companies have an eye on this. They make special compound tires strictly for Daytona and roadracers. Surely LSR specific tires would sell pretty well!
Anyone got an inside track on motorcycle tire companies? Maybe sneak down to Daytona next month during testing?
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Rennsports. (http://images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)
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Hi can eney one help, I fitted a set of Pireli Diablos and thay are the dogs.I was in the bike shop speaking to the sales man and sed i have fited a 180 back tyre he went nut, saying that the hayabusa needs a 190 on the back the bike is handeling a lot better trning in a lot faster, can eney one help.
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I have been using the BT010. Just ordered another one. Very little spinnage. Great street tire in my opinion. I am not into the twisties. Just hammering it in a straight line.
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quote:
Originally posted by ROBBIE.L:
Hi can eney one help, I fitted a set of Pireli Diablos and thay are the dogs.I was in the bike shop speaking to the sales man and sed i have fited a 180 back tyre he went nut, saying that the hayabusa needs a 190 on the back the bike is handeling a lot better trning in a lot faster, can eney one help.
A 180 will fit on the Busa. And Yes it will turn quicker. (http://images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)
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180mm is slightly taller than a 190 in the tread center. Works good. I dont think you'll ever go back to a 190 or 200!!
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Does anyone know the circumference difference between a 190 and a 180? I love my Rennsport, but circumference was only 78".
Dennis, isn't any ZR rated tyre good enough for 250mph? The Shinko is ZR rated isn't it? I thought so. I'll have to go to the shop tomorrow and look at one.
Guy (http://images/smiles/converted/kickass.gif)
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If I remember correctly Z rated tires are up 199-nothing currently rated any higher.When I was talking to tire reps about sponsorship for running at Bonneville I was asked specifically how fast was the class record I was going for.If it had been over 199 they(Avon) would not have sponsored me.
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Dennis, try the BT-012's. They are a bit softer compound than the 56 and 010's. A little better traction.
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mcr2 "shootout" tire
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FiremanJim is correct. The LSR current rule readings(scta, ecta) state that the only tires approved for over 200mph are:
1. a shaved road race branded tires(good up to 250mph).
2. a LSR certified tire or tire certified by the manufacturer(which there are no such thing).
Motorhead, how did you go about shaving yours(or who did you have it done by)?
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nonono
in the salt they inspect tires after every 200 mph pass
there is no tire rated over 200 for bikes
the bt56j is rated in the 190s as it was oem spec on a machine capable of those speeds
zr i believe is speeds over 186 mph
15 min @180 190
thats 45 miles
thats a long ass straightaway (http://images/smiles/icon_redface.gif) (http://images/smiles/icon_redface.gif)
wait till ya try that with thet non intercooled kit (http://images/smiles/converted/lol.gif) (http://images/smiles/converted/lol.gif)
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I have tried the Mickey Thompson MCR street tire and it hook ok. The Shinko works much better and has allowed me to run as much as 40PSI of air on a properly prepped track. At that time, I was running 9.40-s and 9.50's. Neither one of these tires holds up on a dyno, they both crack badly-ouch!!!
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SHAVED PILOT SPORT HPXHow did you go about shaving this tire?
What SCTA or ECTA rules state are that a road race "branded" tire or a Z rated tire is good for 200mph. And a road race "branded" tire is good for an extra 50mph if shaved.
"Most manufacturers" state a "Y" rating as 186mph(which there are very few made) and "Z" rated tires as 149+ mph. The R in "ZR" ratings is simply stating it's a radial. Our busa has been 195+ on the salt and 205+ on the concrete naked(with no type of bodywork on it). I'm not concerned with street ratings but more-so with the LSR "rule book regs" and they state shaving the roadrace tires as being legal for where we are heading.
By the way, I mentioned your name and this site to Todd Brooks and he stated you are a very well respected man in the world of busa', sure nice hearing stuff like that about people in the industry - kudos to ya.
I'm simply wondering how to go about shaving the busa tires(as well as some V-rated tires to get over 150mph with them on the harley). The rear is no problem shaving as it could simply be a +50% worn tire, but the fronts are a little tougher to deal with. Any ideas?
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You could have it done at Nate Jones Tire,or perhaps Nate could give you some ideas,as he does do it at his shop.562-597-3369.Long Beach,Ca.
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Thank you Hank, I'll give him a call tommorow.
Todd-
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oh ok
ya try nate ours worked fine as far as the shaved tires go
(http://images/smiles/converted/thumb.gif) (http://images/smiles/converted/thumb.gif) (http://images/smiles/converted/thumb.gif)
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At this point in the discussion, we can see the problem that both the SCTA (Bonneville), and the ECTA (Maxton) face: There are no certified MOTORCYCLE tires that are "legal" for OVER 250 MPH.
And actually, according to the rules, the ONLY motorcycle tire that may be used OVER 200 MPH at either track is a "shaved" Road Race tire.
That means that at either track, if you show up with a street tire, even shaved, that you could be protested and the records taken away IF you ran OVER 200 MPH. (Dennis, Hank, John, Larry....are you listening?) I, of course would not make that protest, but I have heard at least one other well respected rider threaten to make that protest...
The reason that folks have been setting these high records (with the exception of Rich Yancy's bike)is that neither association is ENFORCING their own tire safety rules!
An interesting part of this is that the rules for BOTH racing acssociations, ECTA and SCTA allow a V rated tire (NOT a Z rated tire!) to be shaved to add another 50 mph of legal speed. That means that a shaved Z reated tire is STILL "legally" good for 200 MPH.
A close examination of Jon Minnono's purpose built Bonneville "double tripple" Triumph of 256MPH fame shows, in it's later configurations, that the bike has CAR TIRES at both ends! The particular tires Jon used are good for 300-350 MPH, and are probably as good as he needs, at least until they get both of the turbo Hayabusa motors into the frame for this year.
Let me hear you say.....1,000 HP
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That's incredible! 1,000, Really? Mind boggling. Target speed? (http://images/smiles/converted/kickass.gif)
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Interesting post Scott.I for one would welcome that protest.If for no other reason than to see the SCTA/BNI define and ENFORCE exactly ONE standard.I have not seen that so far.It has been a total crap shoot on both occasions I have been there.When the SAME person defines the SAME rule 3 different ways on 3 different occasions,it becomes a joke (unfortunatly) to attempt to satisfy the rules if they are going to define them on the fly.I certainly don't mind going out and trying to set another record with a "rule correct" motorcycle.The records are not important to me as you know.If knowledgeable and respected racers such as yourself,with no personal agenda to satisfy, were involved in the rule making process,on a regular basis,and perhaps took turns at the tech booth,I think this would be better for all the motorcycle racers.I am not saying that those who are doing it now are in any way less than qualified,but my experience has been "varied" to say the least. I for one would like to be part of the solution,and not the problem.I don't have enough experience to know what would be appropriate,but I am willing to help and learn in any way I could.
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I also would like to know if you find a Mfg. that has a "off-the-shelf" set of leathers that will satisfy the purposed new leathers rule.Not all motorcycle racers are capable of 250+ speeds.I have seen almost total euphoria in Impound over 70mph runs.I wonder if the new leathers rule is really needed for them,or is just another $1500+ additional burden for racers with as much enthusiasm as anybody.I realise the risks are the same with the exception of those that become greater with more speed,and I also realise that leather "patches" could be sewn over the "offending" areas(if allowed by the powers that be),but at some point,like helmets,if they meet "outside" standards,they should be allowed.Perhaps submitted samples by the mfg's for board approval could provide a basis for a list of pre-approved leathers for use.End of rant(for now).
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I've tried Nate 3 days now with no answer and no recorder to leave a message(thanks again and I will try him again next week). I've left messages a couple other places and if nothing else am sure to find out something from some of the guys at the cinci show in a 3 weeks. Would really like to find a place on the east coast that we can promote via ECTA for racers to have an option.
Did find out two things so far.
1- Shaving a new tire does not effect(harden) the chemical makeup of the tire like wearing one down does(the heat buildup in the proccess is minimal I guess).
2- You don't want to do a search on tire shaving in google.com and expect a whole lot back concerning tires(especially if you're at work and they monitor your whereabouts (http://images/smiles/converted/bah.gif) ).
TD
Anyone else have any names to drop on the east side of the country?
quote:
Originally posted by Hank:
You could have it done at Nate Jones Tire,or perhaps Nate could give you some ideas,as he does do it at his shop.562-597-3369.Long Beach,Ca.
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quote:
Originally posted by MOTORHEAD:
nonono
in the salt they inspect tires after every 200 mph pass
there is no tire rated over 200 for bikes
the bt56j is rated in the 190s as it was oem spec on a machine capable of those speeds
zr i believe is speeds over 186 mph
15 min @180 190
thats 45 miles
thats a long ass straightaway (http://images/smiles/icon_redface.gif) (http://images/smiles/icon_redface.gif)
wait till ya try that with thet non intercooled kit (http://images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif) Ya just seem to get there a lot faster with boost. (http://images/smiles/icon_eek.gif)
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Yikes! This one is after the last back-up pass at Bonneville during speedweek.
(http://images.snapfish.com/3396896323232%7Ffp58%3Dot%3E2326%3D%3A2%3C%3D%3C68%3DXROQDF%3E2323492%3C%3A3832ot1lsi)
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Lookin at #8's rear tire (http://images/smiles/icon_eek.gif) (http://images/smiles/icon_eek.gif) (http://images/smiles/icon_eek.gif) (http://images/smiles/icon_eek.gif) (http://images/smiles/icon_eek.gif)
(I'd cover that thing up, too).
I have ridden that bike several times, and like Wayne, I've been Top Speed Vehicle of the Meet on Yancy's #8.
The older gentleman in the leathers is Wayne.
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Hank, we had a tire that chunked "much" worse on Busa Todds bike at Maxton(we believe it was caused by a "rubber" (http://images/smiles/converted/25.gif) valve stem that split). it looked like oil spray coming of the bike when he came thorugh the traps around 190 on it with no air in it.
(http://images/smiles/converted/bah.gif)
And the #8 bike... well, I wouldn't mind those pictures(along with any tire near that condition) dissappearing. His cover may not keep him so lucky(or work so well) next time.
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quote:
Hank, we had a tire that chunked "much" worse on Busa Todds bike at Maxton(we believe it was caused by a "rubber" valve stem that split).
This one "chunked" because it was used on the Dyno before it was raced on.I think it "heat blistered" under the surface,then chunked when it got to this point on the salt.
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quote:
I think it "heat blistered" under the surface,then chunked when it got to this point on the salt.
Did you happen to check tire pressure and temperature while on the Dyno? I know that after every couple runs on the concrete with a tire similiar to yours I was shaving a 1/4"(i don't have to use millimeters here do I? (http://images/smiles/converted/lol.gif) ) at a 45* angle where it would roll up across the patch area(right where yours and ours chunked) and we had stopped cutting them off the meet before that happened. But at the end of the run we also found where the stem sheared(we figure the stem went first which caused the tire to go as it's doubtful the tire going caused the stem to shear). I think shaving is must on a tire with any tread reliefs cut between 45* & 90* across the tire patch. Brooks went from the Pilot Race to a Bridgestone after that episode I think? Maybe he could jump in here with the specific tires he's ran and what he thinks. Scott, what do you think about tire choices over 200(you've sure put enough miles on a multitude of tires over 200)? I still need to find a place that knows what they're doing to shave tires too(rule or no rule).
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At bonneville I ran the bt56 with no problems. The tire still looks like new. At Maxton with the old style race pilots. the rubber was curling up on the cross tread area. I am now running the new semi slick tread design race pilot with no problems. (http://images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) Todd B. Double Busa Racing
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post removed by request
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quote:
Originally posted by RAC4IT:
post removed by request
Thanks, glad to see both of those posts gone (http://images/smiles/converted/beerchug.gif)
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I'm still scared, I could have been on that bike with that tire! (http://images/smiles/icon_eek.gif) (http://images/smiles/icon_eek.gif) (http://images/smiles/icon_eek.gif) (http://images/smiles/icon_eek.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by TZ750:
I'm still scared, I could have been on that bike with that tire! (http://images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)
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Yes Dennis, it does take a special frame of mind (and confidence in the builder of the bike)to put aside all thoughts of "now that I'm going 240 MPH, what happens if my rear tire blows?" and just keep the throttle OPEN!
Few of us have done it, and I hope we can all have a big 100th birthday party together and talk about how fast we were!
I'll bring the bourbon, wine and Geritol.
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A lot of sports car racers use shaved tires, ask around if you know any of them and see where they get theirs done.
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Look on Google under "shaved racing tires" about 10 or more pages worth. Might try:
--- www.sascosports.com (http://www.sascosports.com) ---
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quote:
Originally posted by BiggerDanno:
Dennis, try the BT-012's. They are a bit softer compound than the 56 and 010's. A little better traction.
I'll give Danno a big amen on this one. I don't do anywhere near the top end runs you guys do (still speed limited, but I've been there several times). Replaced my original BT-56 with a BT-12SS and found it to be much better in the twisties. (http://images/smiles/converted/thumb.gif)
I've been running the Pilots Sports since then and I feel they are more "confidence inspiring" in the curves than the Bridgestones. Not that I'm a good enough rider to exceed the limits of either... (http://images/smiles/converted/no.gif) Both felt fine at my top end, which isn't saying much in this crowd.
I am getting ready for my next full set and am considering either the Michelin H2's or HPX's.
Also, about the 180 as opposed to the 190, as I understand it, the 180 turns in quicker because it has a 55 profile as opposed to the 50 profile of the 190. In actuality, I think the best of both worlds would be a 190/55. slightly less turn in but slightly more contact patch than the 180/55.. Problem is, this is not a common tire size so, if you can find it, it'd probably be more expensive. I'll have to check into when I get ready to order the next set. stilll a few months out.