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Author Topic: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!  (Read 79490 times)

Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #100 on: April 26, 2008, 03:14:52 PM »
Depends where you would have set those to be if the ecu has been reflashed. For stock its about 200rpm before the hard limiter when the soft limiters hit by cutting the fuel for about 50% of the rev cycles - if I remember correctly. Its some time since I looked the code.

Anyway, think what this means if you turbo fuel computer is connected to an outer cylinder (cyl 1 or 4) to which the fuel cut first hits ;-)


Offline glenn71

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #101 on: April 27, 2008, 05:52:36 AM »
so i take it on a standard ecu you shift by 10600 if you don,t want to drop off power.I was running throught the traps at 10800(coil rpm) and it was dying.
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Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #102 on: April 27, 2008, 06:52:04 AM »
About so - I recall vaguely some differences also between US and EU models on how the settings are implemented. DaveO should know the exact values due to the testing effort he has but into US model ECUs.

Offline RidgeRacer

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #103 on: May 12, 2008, 09:49:41 AM »
I figured out this weekend how to reflash the 05/06 GSXR1000 so everything discussed here should soon be possible on the GSXRs soon.

Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #104 on: May 23, 2008, 02:09:54 PM »
A quick update on this topic...

During past month we have now reflashed the fuelmaps and extended limiters for following bikes:
- Busa 1298cc, piped
- Busa 1397cc
- Turbobusa (MC express)
The models have varied from K2 to K6.

The initial mapping of a completely new configuration takes about 2-3 hours. After having a rough map we can now have a complete fuelmap tune in less than 2 hours per bike. This flashing includes not only TPS maps but also remapping the vacuum (IAP) maps making the driveability of the bikes much better than with any other mapping method. Particularly for turbo bikes this has improved the road behaviour of bikes much more.

Of course also reflashing the limiters, tuning the ignitionmaps and particularly generating fuelmapping with a fixed ram air compensation have proven to be a very good concept in seeking the optimum tune for any of the bikes. We have now reached the point where the dynoshop is not anymore recommending using powercommander or alike piggybacks for hayabusas - they rather now offer this as a standard method of tuning a busa.

I think we have now reached a point where we can say that this works, maybe better than expected. Now its down to individual busa owners to start demanding better tuning capabilites from their dynoshops ...


Offline Stocker64

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #105 on: May 23, 2008, 02:45:10 PM »
great work petrik,when will you test the a/b mode,because i am getting ready to tune for nitrous and need a different ign map?
09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #106 on: May 23, 2008, 03:33:40 PM »
great work petrik,when will you test the a/b mode,because i am getting ready to tune for nitrous and need a different ign map?

That will be the next step. It involves a quite a few things anyhow ...

- Increasing fuel pressure by crunching the regulator by 0.9mm
- Reprogramming the ECU for increased fuel pressure so that no tuning of the maps is needed
- Verifying on the dyno the increased fuel pressure / ECU fuel pressure reprogramming so that no map changes are needed

- Wiring up a two switch relay to the flap control solenoid. Negative from ecu, positive from high beam flash button.
- Wiring A/B map switching signal from relay
- Wiring a nitrous solenoid to the relay
- Wiring a datalogger with AFR & EGT sensor (Innovate LC-1 and DL-32) for monitoring these key values
- Dynoing for optimum afr (11.5) by tuning the fuel map
- Dynoing for optimum egt (950F, if I rememer correctly, need to check the exact temp target) by tuning the ignition map

This will take a couple of weeks (or even more depending on free time) to implement. The next PSB race is in two weeks still involving quite a lot of things to be implement on race bikes. Dont know if I have time and dyno avail until after that.

Tomorrow it will be quartermile day just for fun... I mean testing the 1397 ;-)



Offline Stocker64

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #107 on: May 23, 2008, 04:13:31 PM »
ok,good luck in testing,can i use a new .bin and create a new ign map using the editor? i have had good luck in flashing my ecu using enginuity and ftd.I have another computer that i can flash for nitrous until you can finish it.The only thing i had changed is removing soft cut and raiseing all gear related limitors,because of nitrous.I am using a wet nitrous setup,so i can change a/f with jetting.
09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline Stocker64

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #108 on: May 23, 2008, 04:22:35 PM »
everytime i flashed my ecu i verifyed all my changes on a dynojet250i,i would post my dyno sheet,but we dragrace alot around here,i live ten minutes from dragstrip.
09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline busa2001

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #109 on: May 25, 2008, 06:39:13 PM »
A quick update on this topic...

During past month we have now reflashed the fuelmaps and extended limiters for following bikes:
- Busa 1298cc, piped
- Busa 1397cc
- Turbobusa (MC express)
The models have varied from K2 to K6.

The initial mapping of a completely new configuration takes about 2-3 hours. After having a rough map we can now have a complete fuelmap tune in less than 2 hours per bike. This flashing includes not only TPS maps but also remapping the vacuum (IAP) maps making the driveability of the bikes much better than with any other mapping method. Particularly for turbo bikes this has improved the road behaviour of bikes much more.

Of course also reflashing the limiters, tuning the ignitionmaps and particularly generating fuelmapping with a fixed ram air compensation have proven to be a very good concept in seeking the optimum tune for any of the bikes. We have now reached the point where the dynoshop is not anymore recommending using powercommander or alike piggybacks for hayabusas - they rather now offer this as a standard method of tuning a busa.

I think we have now reached a point where we can say that this works, maybe better than expected. Now its down to individual busa owners to start demanding better tuning capabilites from their dynoshops ...


did you have to pull any timing out for the turbo busa? how much?   

Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #110 on: May 25, 2008, 11:48:30 PM »
On this one as its a low power turbo (250hp) we did not do it, even the exh temps indicated that the bike would benefit from ignition mapping.

Offline GBUSA

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #111 on: May 26, 2008, 07:18:30 AM »
 8) 8)
9.36@148 wit bone stock motor @ 60"

Offline ddahlgren

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #112 on: July 12, 2008, 04:15:08 PM »
Map scaling and how final pulse widths are calced. I have been following this along and have a couple of questions that I could not find an answer to.With the busa ecu is the timing table 0 degree based in that a value of 32 is 32 degrees btdc? In the fuel tables what unit are the numbers such as 4200 is there an implied decimal point or is it in clock ticks that the injector drivers are being timed with for how long to activate the injector. IE if 4200 the injector is turned on and the software checks that at 4200 tick the injectors is deactivated in Siemens speak at cap/com type output. I am trying to get a handle on duty cycle and actual timing vs. table values. Lastly is it documented anywhere either partially or fully how the ecu works as in what table is an adder or multiplier to another to arrive at final timing and final injector pulse width. Last has anyone come up with a way to artificially simulate the crank and cam sensors and feed this into the ecu with all the other hooked up so a pulse width or timing might be data logged as if the bike was running, include various clutch switches gear position tps etc so the ecu thinks it is on a running bike? I have more than a little bit of embedded experience and would be glad to help a bit but don't want to duplicate what has been done to date all over again but add to what is not known.
Dave
« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 04:32:31 PM by ddahlgren »

Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #113 on: July 12, 2008, 08:32:03 PM »
Most of your questions have been aswered in some postings I made at Ecuhack board:

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=99460&p=1

E.g. the fuel calculation algorithm is there. Also you can read between the lines that scaling is not needed as the inbuilt maps already have rpm and load ranges for most common purposes. The tables we tune are rather VE tables than actual millisecond opening times. There is too many other variables included for calculation. Anyway with e.g. ECUeditor software you can monitor almost any variable that allows you e.g. to estimate (calculate) the duty cycles.

For practical purposes we have a working tuning tool with map tracing capability, the ECUeditor. Currenly I am working on finding a way to implement fuel consumption gauge readings to match larger injector sizes. The ECUeditor can program bigger injectors but I suspect that the fuel consumption number on gauge goes down a bit too much.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2008, 08:34:16 PM by PetriK »

Offline glenn71

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #114 on: July 19, 2008, 06:10:26 AM »
So botom line from all of this has anyone got a dyno chart showing how this style of tuning has picked up torque down low on a piped bike or a turbo one or picked up horsepower from equalising fuel and ignition maps for equal length stacks etc.I,ve noticed with my 16/42 gearing the air fuel does weird delayed enrichment in 5th gear confirming the ram air compensation is heavily dependant on rpm rather than actual air box pressure.Its believable as ive logged the map sensor results up to 135mph and it just pulses from the induction resonance and if anything reduces pressure.Suzuki doesn,t have a map sensor logging air box pressure just throttle body average resonance pressure.So perhaps keying in the numbers to correct for gearing would help.In regards to a fixed ram air compensation number wouldn,t that be like fitting a tre?I logged that and it just got leaner each gear,assuming the acceleration maps were richening it up in the lower gear a bit as well.I,m guessing here but going from standard mixed stacks to all shorts is likely to affect the map sensors affect on air fuel based on the fluctuations every 150rpm that i saw in a 5th gear rollon measuring at 10 samples per sec.
Gen1 the original and the best
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Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #115 on: July 19, 2008, 10:51:51 AM »
yes - gear compensation is rpm dependant only -but you made an interesting point. If i have time i can make ecueditor to shift the gear compensation rpm range up and down for different gearing settings.

Then about the proof - i am writing from the summer house so dont have dyno logs with me, so you just need to take my word on this. Can dig out some graphs later.

Currently we are tuning a bike or two with ecueditor each week. Most often these are more than piped engines equipped with powercommanders. The users come to us because they have heard from the others how tuning the vacuum maps can improve the cruising throttle area driveability. As you know pc can only tune for tps/rpm so the cruising area is usually far from optimum. Particularly the turbos and 1397:s are benefitting from tuning the vacuum maps - the feedback from bike owners has been very positive about the changes we are making.

At peak power side we dont usually see so much improvement. A couple of ponies only because of being able to tweak the ignition maps. But with turbos and nitrous that is also an additional safety factor to keep the egt:s down.

When we tune bikes it takes anything between 20-50 dyno runs depending if we have a base map or if we need to start from scratch. What i do is using the load settings tune the vacuum map and each throttle position above 10%. Between those runs we see and feel the improvement of the bike behaviour. To make things easier i have considered to build a tuning link between ecu and innovate wbo - but dont have time for that right now as even without its a very straight forward excersise. For each bike we of course have the starting point dyno graph and end result dyno for each tps position.

The bikes have ranged from standard slipon busa to outlaw turbo with around 400rhph - and not to forget some around 250rwhp nitrous busas that we have tuned with A/B map switching feature. 

Additionally the ability to adjust ignition, nitrous maps, fuel pressure/injector size and now even to calibrate the fuel consumption setting we are really only starting to understand how much inbuilt functionality the busa ecu has as a stock.

Hope this helps - digging out more hard facts can be done, but best results you get by trying out this stuff by yourself. I know that a couple of other local dyno stations are planning to get ecueditor and a cable too - as you know the software is free and the diy cable costs < 30usd.



Offline glenn71

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #116 on: July 19, 2008, 04:09:11 PM »
I,m in australia and tuneboy says they are close to being ready,will there software give me the flexibility of tuning ecueditor provides?I,m ready to try this as i have a spare 04 ecu on hand.For the tuning is any style of dyno better than the other for tuning the vacuum maps?The one i had in mind is a dj250i
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Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #117 on: July 20, 2008, 04:14:51 AM »
I,m in australia and tuneboy says they are close to being ready,will there software give me the flexibility of tuning ecueditor provides?I,m ready to try this as i have a spare 04 ecu on hand.For the tuning is any style of dyno better than the other for tuning the vacuum maps?The one i had in mind is a dj250i

i always tune the bike with dynomode on as it gives a flat gear compensation for dynoing. If you have gear compensation on then its possible that the bike is leaning out on lower gears.

Ah wayne - yes, after giving him some source code and other info he promised to send me tuneboy for testing - never heard him since. That information highway has been one way street so far. Having used tuneboy with one Triumph I dont really need that anymore - way too complex for dynoing a bike, unless the next version has some major improvements. But thats just my personal opinion and i am also biased as i write the free ecueditor software myself. For australia it may be better as you guys can just call him... ?

For standard tps maps (>10% tps) we just do normal dyno runs for each tps setting, with any dyno that has afr logging can be used for that. The stepped load could be also used, but it heats up the engine/exhaust piping giving some problems. With one turbo we even got the exhaust piping to burst to flames because the bike was set so rich before we tuned it.

For the vacuum map tuning we tune each rpm area with various load settings and just use the on line map display to see which area to tune. I.e. We set rpms to 3000 and then vary the load from dyno during the run to get various vacuum map points. Then move to 4000rpm and repeat the excersise. so the dyno must be able to hold a set rpm against all <10% throttle positions. I dont know how well dj250i supports that - would be interesting to know.

Btw the gear calculation for e.g. 17/40, 16/40, 18/40 is now implemented to the ecueditor. Will post it for downloading as soon as i am back to sivilization. that also replaces the dynomode setting by allowing "dynomode" gearing that has appr 25mph constant ram air compensation gearing. I guess that for turbos we should implement a different gearing too as instead of ram air we are running boost after certain rpms... Or alternatively let it to dynomode to have a flat ram air compensation.

Are there other std gearings I should add ?

EDIT - here is the screen I meant in the previous text. The nitrous solenoid control is activated for 7000-10500RPM range, the fuel pressure is set to 62psi (135=35%), the fuel consumption setting is se to 120(1.2x normal consumption) and gearing is 18/40 modifying the ram air compensation maps accordingly. The acceleration enrichment is left to stock. Also no RPM range extension is used. Also IAT sensor setting is left to stock.



« Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 07:49:50 AM by PetriK »

Offline glenn71

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #118 on: July 20, 2008, 07:37:13 AM »
perhaps 18/42 or 18/43 for gen2 busas or gen1,s with stronger motors that want longer chain life.
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Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #119 on: July 20, 2008, 07:56:22 AM »
perhaps 18/42 or 18/43 for gen2 busas or gen1,s with stronger motors that want longer chain life.

OK - added those to latest version...

Name:  Hayabusa ECUeditor for K2-K7 models
 
Version:  1.2.0.2


Offline leathalbusa

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #121 on: March 31, 2009, 02:04:16 AM »
So Now that ecu editor has nearly completed world domination on the busa scene. what about the zx-12? how would one flash that old girl?

I have a racing mate who is still slower than me. I might want to help him go a little faster. but not too fast... :vl: :twisted:

Offline LeasingGuy

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #122 on: March 31, 2009, 08:37:33 AM »
Here is your old school ZX-12 info   :thumb:  These guys are on it
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AMA D-18 MX #775