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Author Topic: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!  (Read 79801 times)

Offline Busa Quick

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2008, 08:25:13 PM »

Using Petrik's advice and info I have built the Rs232 converter. I got the parts from Digi-key electronics. The kit came in piece form and did not come with a board. Therefore, using a diagram call Max232ACPE I was able to assemble the board then power it with 3 AA alkalines to test it. Using Windows Hyperteminal set at COM1 serial I was able to get my typed letters repeated to me while the TX and RX connections were jumped together.

Here is a picture of the board and the diagram

Black and Purple 04, MY MODS: Turbo, .08 spacer, s2000 injectors, yosh cams 7.2 spring, heavy clutch springs, APE valve springs, raised rev limiter to 11,500 rpm with ignition cut only, using only stock ECM with Petrik reprogramming method,

Offline Busa Quick

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2008, 08:25:45 PM »

Here is a photo of the Yosh plug Petrik has spoken of as it sits untouched from the factory. It is found under the passenger seat at the rear of the bike.





Mark

Hopefully, I will do some more work and see if I can program my computer and return the results.
Black and Purple 04, MY MODS: Turbo, .08 spacer, s2000 injectors, yosh cams 7.2 spring, heavy clutch springs, APE valve springs, raised rev limiter to 11,500 rpm with ignition cut only, using only stock ECM with Petrik reprogramming method,

Offline jscarb2

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2008, 11:32:48 PM »
rr has done some cool work i have followed it for the past year or so. i am new here but been over there on the kawa side for years!

Offline busa2001

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #53 on: March 07, 2008, 10:14:37 PM »
JUST FINISH UPGRADING MY 01 FROM 16 BIT TO 32 BIT ECU.....FIRED IT UP IT RUN AND SOUNDS GOOD, INTERFACE IS READY JUST HAVE TO REPIN ECU....THEN I CAN FLASH IT......... :D :thumb: 

Offline glenn71

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #54 on: March 07, 2008, 11:36:32 PM »
petrik can you confirm if theres a difference in the ignition advance curved at wide open throttle in each gear.I measured a tre,s torque output and it only made an improvement up to 10% throttle.If this is the case a tre is a waste of time for the drags.
Gen1 the original and the best
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Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2008, 01:46:13 AM »
Busa2001 - looks like youre moving fast forward...

petrik can you confirm if theres a difference in the ignition advance curved at wide open throttle in each gear.I measured a tre,s torque output and it only made an improvement up to 10% throttle.If this is the case a tre is a waste of time for the drags.

Not every gear. There is two banks (inner/outer cylinders) and for those these maps:
Gear 1 map
Gear 2 Map
Gear 3,4 Map
Gear 5,6 Map
Clutch/Neutral Map
Additionally you can select a second set of maps with a switch, e.g. nitrous maps with less advance.

At WOT maps 1&2 are similiar and 3&4&5&6 are similiar at WOT. Anyhow there is a big difference in Gear 3,4 and Gear 5,6 maps when cruising (parth throttle).

I believe there is more tq to be gained at high RPM area by modifying the maps, depending on your tq curve & stuff...

You can also see this by yourself also by following these simple instructions to download the map editor and map files.

Quote
You can download the two files needed from here:
http://www.bikeland.info/petrik/Busa/BUSAK6USA.bin  -> This is the actual eprom contents of K6Busa / USA model
http://www.bikeland.info/petrik/Busa/BUSAK5.xml      -> This is the enginuity definitions file
Save both files with mouse right click and save as... to your own hard drive.

Enginuity map editor for you to download you can find from here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/enginuity/

After installing the enginiuity you first need to make the BUSAK5.xml definition file as the active definition file. First add the BUSAK5.xml (ECU Definitions -> ECU Definitions manager -> ADD) to your active definitions file list. Then remove the other definition files from the list to avoid any confusion.

Then open the image, i.e. the BUSAK6USA.bin file. You do that by going to File -> Open image.

Now after some numbercrunching the computer is performing you should have on the left hand side a list of the maps visible for you. 

I will make the map and other variable namings more descriptive when more people is using the stuff. Also it is my intention to continue building the mapping software of my own to make some adjustments and particularly enginen logging more simplier.

Have fun...

« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 01:53:14 AM by PetriK »

Offline glenn71

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2008, 01:29:46 PM »
thanks alot.My only concern with modifying ignition is has anyone succesfully fitted a knock sensor to prevent detonation damaging the motor whilst finding optimum ignition curves.
Gen1 the original and the best
8.76@165.42mph so far

Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #57 on: March 08, 2008, 01:34:56 PM »
thanks alot.My only concern with modifying ignition is has anyone succesfully fitted a knock sensor to prevent detonation damaging the motor whilst finding optimum ignition curves.


Knock sensors are usually "tuned" for a certain type of knock and only work very low in the RPM band. I used to use a laptop and a microphone to detect any detonation with cars. With busa have not tried out the mic trick, but I hope that the Innovate DL-32 microphone logging featyre will become handy soon.

if you look at the usa ign curve on different gears its fairlly easy to detect where you could put more advance. Obviously also fuel needs to be set accordingly.



Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #59 on: March 08, 2008, 07:56:05 PM »
well i successfully flash my ecu today..remove the six gear limiter...and increase the red line a little... :D :thumb:

Well done !

Any plans to utilize the dual maps, e.g. one for street second for track with way aggressive ignition and optimized fuel. Street fuel is more about keeping the consumption down ? Its pin12 on harness to which you put the map select switch, just ground it when you want the ms_off.



« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 08:00:12 PM by PetriK »

Offline busa2001

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #60 on: March 08, 2008, 08:25:36 PM »
well i successfully flash my ecu today..remove the six gear limiter...and increase the red line a little... :D :thumb:

Well done !

Any plans to utilize the dual maps, e.g. one for street second for track with way aggressive ignition and optimized fuel. Street fuel is more about keeping the consumption down ? Its pin12 on harness to which you put the map select switch, just ground it when you want the ms_off.






yes that's next but i'm still learning the fuel maps...and the ignition maps...trying to be careful as i'm running a turbo, you mean pin 21 for map select right and not 12.....

Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #61 on: March 09, 2008, 12:43:56 AM »
Yep, pin 21 - sometimes my fingers type characters in wrong order. Have noticed the same with some others too...

Offline busa2001

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #62 on: March 09, 2008, 03:21:41 PM »
hi petrik i have flash the stock ecu, do you have any ideas on how to improve the cold start, it sucks when you try to  start it on a cold day it cranks over and over before it fires....but when it's warm it works like a champ... :thumb: motor is low compression 8:1  JE turbo pistons, carillo h-beam rods, 65lbs valve spring, stock cams 105/107, high volume oil pump gear, i don't run a power commander..and battery is always fully charge   

B/W thank for sharing the info on the stock ecu i'm very impress with the stock ECU'S ability...

Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #63 on: March 09, 2008, 04:06:21 PM »
hi petrik i have flash the stock ecu, do you have any ideas on how to improve the cold start, it sucks when you try to  start it on a cold day it cranks over and over before it fires....but when it's warm it works like a champ... :thumb: motor is low compression 8:1  JE turbo pistons, carillo h-beam rods, 65lbs valve spring, stock cams 105/107, high volume oil pump gear, i don't run a power commander..and battery is always fully charge   

B/W thank for sharing the info on the stock ecu i'm very impress with the stock ECU'S ability...


A good question. Spent today a good few hours in investigating the coolant temperature effect to the fuel mix. In general the effect of coolant seems to be very small compared to any other sensor. The coolant has much more effect to the ignition timing.

The fuel delivery is basically calculated with the following formula:

(air_temp_map+0x180) * water_temp_map* ambient_pressure_map * TPS_pulsewidth_map * RPM_pulsewidth_map * TPS_opening_change_map  * (Fuel_map * injflow_parameter)  + (opening_time_map*Voltage_compensation_map)

That should help anyone doing ecu tuning in understanding how different parameters affect the fuel flow. Regarding cold starts a couple of parameters to be named:

injflow_parameter is the 1 / injector size. So if you have increased fuel pressure of have a regulator for turbo that adjusts according to the pressure it may deliver less fuel than expected when at vacuum. So changing the inector size bigger, i.e. reducing the inj_flow paramete A and B should increase the overall fuel flow.

If you have a turbo its possible that the intake air pressure calculated fuel delivery may not reflect the true need of your engine. Therefore the best bet would be tuning the fuel maps (IAP maps), particularly the neutral/cluch on maps for cranking area should be noted. My personal first bet would be to check out the idle maps, maybe even with an old yoshbox. That has helped us here locally to smoothen a few turbo bikes which otherwise have suffered from non smooth idling. For other than idle area I can not recommend yoshbox to be used.

Of course also water temp maps play role, but like said I have not been able to generate a significant difference to the fuel amount when testing with different coolant sensor values. It looks like the coolant sensor value is more affecting to the ignition than fuel.

As you propably know, when the ecu is turned on it squirts a good amount of fuel to the engine. You can e.g. turn kill switch on/off for several times to pump fuel into the engine just to test if its lack of the fuel that prevents starting.

Logging the data parameters during cold start should help in resolving what parameter to change. I dont know if you have tried the software I wrote, but that should be easy to use and log the engine data in this kind of situations.  Its only two wires to hook into the ECU harness and you have full engine logging capability for trouble finding and tuning... I would start this by using it and comparing the data with results when actually running the engine to find what are the key differences.

Hope this helps...






Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #65 on: March 10, 2008, 12:29:48 AM »
The data logging is somewhat picky on both operating system (windows xp tested only) and hardware (only external usb to rs232/TTL modules tested).

EDIT - forgot that if you dont have Innovate wide band sensor or other products, which I highly recommend - you may need to install Innovate logworks/sdk with the current version of the software.

You can find the SDK from the bottom of this page:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support.php

Maybe in the future I will make the innovate as a separate program to benefit those who have e.g. LC-1 and keep this simple freeware version without innovate support to simplify installation. If you could kindly try again after installing SDK. Sorry about inconvenience.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 04:48:57 AM by PetriK »


Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2008, 01:34:37 AM »
Btw. as written on the other thread: To synchronize to the datastream you need to turn the power off and on on the bike. I.e. resetting the ecu will allow the program to synchronize. If at any later stage you get a message "synchronizing", its time to restart the bike (power off, power on).

Alternatively "synchronizing" may mean that the interface is not compatible and does not support the data communications speed (baudrate), but with latest version of the software it should detect non compatible interfaces quite well.




Offline busa2001

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2008, 08:05:43 PM »
Btw. as written on the other thread: To synchronize to the datastream you need to turn the power off and on on the bike. I.e. resetting the ecu will allow the program to synchronize. If at any later stage you get a message "synchronizing", its time to restart the bike (power off, power on).

Alternatively "synchronizing" may mean that the interface is not compatible and does not support the data communications speed (baudrate), but with latest version of the software it should detect non compatible interfaces quite well.




i tried resetting  the ecu but it's still trying to synchronize, is there a way to change the baudrate of the usb ttl converter port?

Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #69 on: March 12, 2008, 03:02:18 AM »
i tried resetting  the ecu but it's still trying to synchronize, is there a way to change the baudrate of the usb ttl converter port?

Its likely a different interface/version you use or a wiring mistake/problem. Its also possible that there is an issue with signal levels in which case it will take a good few days to come up with a solution. The baudrate (the speed that the software communicates with ECU) is set automatically within software. I have tested this with 2 ecus and 2 different computers and all works fine, but obvioulsly that is not very comprehensive testing. Anyway we are still in early stages. All this is very new, its less than 2 months since the ECU progtocol was first time understood and this early there will be some issues.

Lets try to pinpoint where the problem lies:
1) What is the interface you use ? Exact link in internet or a very descriptive text ?
2) How is that connected ? Which wires are connected and how is the ground signal provided ?

When the software is in next stage I will write detailed instructions "how to" connect and troubleshoot problems. This discussion helps writing a document that helps others to resolve alike problems.

The reason I am asking you to use the software is to find a root cause of your cold start problems. The software will show us the injector pulse, tps position, intake vacuum sensor values and even ignition advance from the ECU. This means that we can see if any of the sensors give faultry readings or if there is a problem with flashed contents with incorrectly set values when coldstarting. I know from DaveO that several persons have done a troublefree upgrade from 16bit ECUs from to 32bit so there is something in the setup. Unfortunately there has been a delay in the interface shipment (should receive end of this week) so I have not been able to validate interfaces to work in high volumes (i.e. more than 2) and send those out for other persons to be tested. In USA DaveO will receive the first units for local testing.



« Last Edit: March 12, 2008, 04:21:12 AM by PetriK »

Offline busa2001

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #70 on: March 12, 2008, 05:11:38 AM »
i tried resetting  the ecu but it's still trying to synchronize, is there a way to change the baudrate of the usb ttl converter port?

Its likely a different interface/version you use or a wiring mistake/problem. Its also possible that there is an issue with signal levels in which case it will take a good few days to come up with a solution. The baudrate (the speed that the software communicates with ECU) is set automatically within software. I have tested this with 2 ecus and 2 different computers and all works fine, but obvioulsly that is not very comprehensive testing. Anyway we are still in early stages. All this is very new, its less than 2 months since the ECU progtocol was first time understood and this early there will be some issues.

Lets try to pinpoint where the problem lies:
1) What is the interface you use ? Exact link in internet or a very descriptive text ?
2) How is that connected ? Which wires are connected and how is the ground signal provided ?

When the software is in next stage I will write detailed instructions "how to" connect and troubleshoot problems. This discussion helps writing a document that helps others to resolve alike problems.

The reason I am asking you to use the software is to find a root cause of your cold start problems. The software will show us the injector pulse, tps position, intake vacuum sensor values and even ignition advance from the ECU. This means that we can see if any of the sensors give faultry readings or if there is a problem with flashed contents with incorrectly set values when coldstarting. I know from DaveO that several persons have done a troublefree upgrade from 16bit ECUs from to 32bit so there is something in the setup. Unfortunately there has been a delay in the interface shipment (should receive end of this week) so I have not been able to validate interfaces to work in high volumes (i.e. more than 2) and send those out for other persons to be tested. In USA DaveO will receive the first units for local testing.




i'm using this one, it receives power from the usb port....
 http://www.superdroidrobots.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=795
i tap into the black/green wire at ecu...pin 33 data stream wire...

Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #71 on: March 12, 2008, 06:31:04 AM »
OK - its like this then should be good:

Interface          -> ECU
Green + Yellow -> greenblack
Black                -> blackwhite

When you have the software running and saying "Synchronizing" and the interface is connected does the gauge cluster on bike say "CHECK" and the temp gauge go up to red ? It should do so...

If you get check I will need to check the voltage levels when I get more interfaces at the end of this week. It is possible that the USB interface Tx/Rx (Green/Yellow) interfere with the base voltage from the ECU - I.e. both giving +5V TTL level signal to the gauge data wire. Happened to me with one interface. Should be fairly easy to fix with an additional resistor.
 

Offline busa2001

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #72 on: March 12, 2008, 05:58:43 PM »
OK - its like this then should be good:

Interface          -> ECU
Green + Yellow -> greenblack
Black                -> blackwhite

When you have the software running and saying "Synchronizing" and the interface is connected does the gauge cluster on bike say "CHECK" and the temp gauge go up to red ? It should do so...

If you get check I will need to check the voltage levels when I get more interfaces at the end of this week. It is possible that the USB interface Tx/Rx (Green/Yellow) interfere with the base voltage from the ECU - I.e. both giving +5V TTL level signal to the gauge data wire. Happened to me with one interface. Should be fairly easy to fix with an additional resistor.
 

yes the gauge cluster say "CHECK" and the temp gauge goes to red... :thumb:  but still just trying to synchroniz.... :?

Offline PetriK

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #73 on: March 12, 2008, 06:10:34 PM »
That is partially very good news - tells the cause of the problem. It is either a baud rate or a signal level problem. The chip in your interface is FDTI so it should support the 7812 baud rate straight out of the box - so I suspect the later. Signal level problem is most likely caused the fact that both the interface you have and the ECU try both to push +5V to the line. I saw this happening when I used an external processor card to send data to the gaugecluster. Basically the TX pin from the USB TTL interface should only ground the signal, not push +5V back to the ECU.

If you can spare for a few more additional days after I have received the USB TTL interfaces I can dig deeper into this. Currently I have only RS232 level interfaces with additional MAX232 TTL converters at hand which use the +5V from ECU. Those work just perfectly which of course does not help you ...

Offline busa2001

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Re: hi tech guys: electronics whiz has hacked into ZX12 ECU!!!
« Reply #74 on: March 12, 2008, 06:19:00 PM »
That is partially very good news - tells the cause of the problem. It is either a baud rate or a signal level problem. The chip in your interface is FDTI so it should support the 7812 baud rate straight out of the box - so I suspect the later. Signal level problem is most likely caused the fact that both the interface you have and the ECU try both to push +5V to the line. I saw this happening when I used an external processor card to send data to the gaugecluster. Basically the TX pin from the USB TTL interface should only ground the signal, not push +5V back to the ECU.

If you can spare for a few more additional days after I have received the USB TTL interfaces I can dig deeper into this. Currently I have only RS232 level interfaces with additional MAX232 TTL converters at hand which use the +5V from ECU. Those work just perfectly which of course does not help you ...
no problem. :thumb: keep me posted.