AMS-1000 ins was:Turbo 1000 will not start, PLEASE HELP!!! ***PING EVERYONE***

[Oz Booster]

Usually have to put a bigger fuse(15 instead of 10)  in unless your running a extra relay and powering your pump direct from the battery.

[Busa for hire]

PULL A PLUG!! if you've been cranking this thing as much as it sounds like you have been and you initially have at least some sense of it wanting to start you may of just gotten the plugs wet to a point they won't fire. I hate to see you chasing a problem that isn't there. if you had pulled a plug already you'd of already known for sure if you had a fuel or a spark issue.

[BLUR AKA SIDEWAYS AKA KING OF SOUTH FLORIDA]

 

[badass1000]

Not being a smart ass, but are you pulling the clutch in when trying to start?
I had zx9's before the 01 1000 came out.  I got one and tore it all down to nothing to powder coat, paint, engine work, etc...  I put it back together and it wouldn't start.  I checked every thing out and got out the multi meter and started going through the wireing schematic.  Turned out the clutch switch was not passing power.    Pulled the clutch lever in and it started. 
Didn't have to pull the clutch lever in on the zx9's if it was in neutral.

[1BadAssBusa]

Not being a smart ass, but are you pulling the clutch in when trying to start?
I had zx9's before the 01 1000 came out.  I got one and tore it all down to nothing to powder coat, paint, engine work, etc...  I put it back together and it wouldn't start.  I checked every thing out and got out the multi meter and started going through the wireing schematic.  Turned out the clutch switch was not passing power.    Pulled the clutch lever in and it started. 
Didn't have to pull the clutch lever in on the zx9's if it was in neutral.

Nothing is a stupid thought at this point, because the answer will be simple once it's found...

But the 2004 1K has a clutch safty switch and will not start without the clutch depressed...

I will be pulling the plenum off this weekend, too HOT and HUMID right now.  I need to leave the plenum off, it's too hard to work on with that massive thing.  I will be able to try a lot more things without it connected.  I will just pull the Air Temp sensor off the old airbox and plug it in hanging there.  The motor will run this way and I can check a lot of things at once.

If I took a picture of the cams, do you think you guys could tell me which is indexed wrong????  I mean the cams I already pulled out of it, not the two in it now.

First thing I am going to do is pull a plug and check if it's wet.  Then I will check for spark.  Next I will check the cam sensor PIN.  We will see where that leaves us.  I think I will have a much better picture of what's going on once i CHECK THOSE THINGS....

[turbojonn]

 If it's a simple stupid problem them I'm your guy...wait, did I just slam myself? Once mine wouldn't start after I messed with the fuel lines. I thoght I had them in backwards. It turned out to be that I had put the tip over sensor back in upside down. It looked right, but it was upside down. Maybe yours is just not throwning a code? I've also heard many times of run switches becoming faulty. No code from that.

[1BadAssBusa]

If it's a simple stupid problem them I'm your guy...wait, did I just slam myself? Once mine wouldn't start after I messed with the fuel lines. I thoght I had them in backwards. It turned out to be that I had put the tip over sensor back in upside down. It looked right, but it was upside down. Maybe yours is just not throwning a code? I've also heard many times of run switches becoming faulty. No code from that.

Where is the tip over sensor on a 1000????  Is it in the fuel pump???  I have all those wires hooked up correctly and I didn't touch anything after Dave sent it tooo me and it ran on his bike.

I also think it's VERY FUNNY I'm not getting any codes??  Down right strange.  But if the tip sensor was bad or wrong, I guess it wouldn't throw a code, it would just think it was tipped over????

[badass1000]

tip over sensor mounts to the plastic batery tray right in front of the battery.  It is a plastic box with a rubber sleeve over it.  3 wires. 2 black one red.  it even has a arrow on it to point wich way up.  wires should be coming in from the left if it is mounted right.

[joea]

fuel,  timed spark...................compression.....

do you have all three..........

I thought you posted weeks ago about 1000 all finished...........

Joe

[turbojonn]

The tip over switch is suppose to throw a code. The run switch won't though. Have you tried testing the run switch?

[1BadAssBusa]

The tip over switch is suppose to throw a code. The run switch won't though. Have you tried testing the run switch?

I am going to pull the plenum off today.

That way I will be able to check FUEL, SPARK and COMPRESSION.........

I will also measure the Cam Sensor PIN on the INT Cam.......


I guess I could check the Tip Over Sensor and the RUN SWITCH...  But I didn't touch these, I really feel I should stick to what I touched and not start chacing things I never messed with.  I will exhaust all those options, before looking at switches.  Process of elimination and all...

[1BadAssBusa]

I think I may have figured out the problem.  CAMSHAFTS!!!

The first set I used the exhaust cam sprocket was installed 180 degrees off.  Now I beleave that the intake cam in the motor is indexed 180 degrees off.

This second set was installed in the bike before, but they where degreed in by someone else and I didn't take account of how they looked at TDC.  I just ASSUMED they where installed like the factory.  But we know what ASSUMPTIONS lead too.....

Now why do I think this.............

The first set of cams at least made a slight popping sound when trying to start the bike.  Indicating I was getting both SPARK and FUEL, as a BIG FLAME out the exhaust usually means I have both.  But since I installed the old cams, I don't even get that, so I start tracking down if I have fuel or spark.  WHY!?!?!?!?!  I KNOW I DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not too mention I pulled the intake off today, strayed Staring Fluid right into the cylinders and GOT NOTHING< NO REACTION AT ALL!!!!  Then i pulled the plugs and checked for spark, YEP WORKS FINE!!!!!!

But then i noticed the motor turns over without spark plugs at the same speed as with them installed.  The ONLY thing that could mean is NO COMPRESSION!!!!!  I went to check compression, but I don't have the right adapter for the plug hole, ordering one today, just too have.  So I can't check it, but I know there must be no comression, because it turns over way too easy with plugs in it.

That must mean I am getting no compression on ANY CYLINDERS......  Before anyone asks, I am always careful about the piston ring gaps and off-setting them so they don't line up and bleed compression.  I can just see that comment comming.  So it must be the cams installed incorrectly..........

I'm calling APE and asking them to fax me the instal instructions for thier sprockets and then we will see........


Who sells a compression tester of simply the proper fitting as i have 2 testers?????

[1BadAssBusa]

I called APE and asked them to FAX me a copy of the instalation instructions for thier Adjustable Cam Sprokets.  I got a fax from them in less than 5 minutes.  THANKS A LOT GUYS!!!!!

Well some good news....  I was right.  The exhaust cam was 180 degrees off.  The single dot should line up with the two lines on the adapter, but it was directly across from it.  That's why it wasn't building any compression and popping out the exhaust at WOT.


What have i learned????

1.  The bike backfired out the exhaust a 2 foot flame with the cams that are sitting on my bench (the ones w/ the ex cam 180 degrees off).  Which tells me with these cams the bike had both spark and fuel.  I mean you need both to create a flame out the exhaust correct?!?!?!?!?!?

2.  The CAM SENSOR PIN is .311 out on the INT Cam I have on my bench.  I have NO IDEA about the one in the motor now.

3.  The cams in the bike are NOT 2004 1000 cams, actually I have NO IDEA what they are out of (but they where running in this 1000 motor and made 175HP w/ an Akra exhaust).  They have YOSH Adjustable Cam Sprockets on them.  I have no idea how they are degreed in, but how fast the motor turns over, I would say the INT Cam is 180 degrees off...




This is the way I see it.  The first set of cams had FUEL & SPARK, just the EXT cam was 180 degrees out.  So if I reinstall these in the motor, after correcting the EXH Cam, it should run?!?!?!?!?  I can just advance it a little on the adjustment, I have an idea where the number fall on these already.  I mean it will run and that's all we need to know. 

I think I will do it tonight, as it is cool out.........

Thoughts???????????

Can everyone cross thier fingers!!!

[Busa for hire]

Your scaring me with all of this cams off 180 degrees talk..    You must have a spacer in that motor or by now you would of banged some valves.. I hope that is your problem though.
i broke a cam chain on the dyno at about 9000 rpm and I was fortunate enough to not do any valvetrain damage.. that spacer saved my butt!! good luck.

[smithabusa]

Your scaring me with all of this cams off 180 degrees talk..    You must have a spacer in that motor or by now you would of banged some valves.. I hope that is your problem though.
i broke a cam chain on the dyno at about 9000 rpm and I was fortunate enough to not do any valvetrain damage.. that spacer saved my butt!! good luck.

I be that sounded wild, what was the cause?

[1BadAssBusa]

I am running an 0.80" Cometics Head Gasket.  Although the motor shouldn't touch 180 degrees off, as I know a few people this has happened too and none experienced parts touching.


I really hope that's the problem, atticdog and myself will install the original cams back in tonight with the exhaust cam properly indexed.  Cross your fingers!!!!!!

[Busa for hire]

Your scaring me with all of this cams off 180 degrees talk..    You must have a spacer in that motor or by now you would of banged some valves.. I hope that is your problem though.
i broke a cam chain on the dyno at about 9000 rpm and I was fortunate enough to not do any valvetrain damage.. that spacer saved my butt!! good luck.

I be that sounded wild, what was the cause?

It didn't sound like anything it just shut down....   we thought it blew the fuel pump fuse at first. after we tried to crank it though it was obvious I had no compression,  the cam chain had a broken pin not sure why though.

[Pinky]

being 180 off wont hurt anything it wont hit if exactly 180 which is what he could be seeing
my 1100 did that with no damage

[Pinky]

180 off wont hit

[Oz Booster]

Cams are 180 deg off every second rotation, as they only travel at 1/2 crank speed.But that is different to the indexing been 180 out.
Be absolutely sure the valves have not touched pistons before fitting cams and starting, putting some pressure in the cyls with the cams out can check the valves are seated, but still won't tell for sure if there has been some minor contact that could haunt you later .

[FastGixx]

sweet man!  Sounds like I was right too!! 

When I heard the engine cranking over the phone, the first thing I said to you was...  crank it again so i could hear it again... didn't sound right like the cams were in it right!!     

the spacer is your friend here..  giving you a little extra clearance..  lets hope you didn't damage the valves, head, cam, or even pistons / bearings.   You would have heard something NOT sound good if that were the case though.

I also told you to use the indexing mark ON THE CAM, not on the sprocket.   Anyone could have pressed the sprockets on wrong.    You posted somewhere that the cams were degreed in though.   If you find true TDC and degree the cams correctly, this problem should have been found long ago.   .311 is good on your ckp pin.

call me if you have any other q's on getting the cams in that thing right.

I was hoping it would have fired when you located that blown fuse while i was on the phone..  I actually had my fingers crossed for you but i knew from the first time you cranked it that it didn't sound right. 

I called APE and asked them to FAX me a copy of the instalation instructions for thier Adjustable Cam Sprokets.  I got a fax from them in less than 5 minutes.  THANKS A LOT GUYS!!!!!

Well some good news....  I was right.  The exhaust cam was 180 degrees off.  The single dot should line up with the two lines on the adapter, but it was directly across from it.  That's why it wasn't building any compression and popping out the exhaust at WOT.


What have i learned????

1.  The bike backfired out the exhaust a 2 foot flame with the cams that are sitting on my bench (the ones w/ the ex cam 180 degrees off).  Which tells me with these cams the bike had both spark and fuel.  I mean you need both to create a flame out the exhaust correct?!?!?!?!?!?

2.  The CAM SENSOR PIN is .311 out on the INT Cam I have on my bench.  I have NO IDEA about the one in the motor now.

3.  The cams in the bike are NOT 2004 1000 cams, actually I have NO IDEA what they are out of (but they where running in this 1000 motor and made 175HP w/ an Akra exhaust).  They have YOSH Adjustable Cam Sprockets on them.  I have no idea how they are degreed in, but how fast the motor turns over, I would say the INT Cam is 180 degrees off...




This is the way I see it.  The first set of cams had FUEL & SPARK, just the EXT cam was 180 degrees out.  So if I reinstall these in the motor, after correcting the EXH Cam, it should run?!?!?!?!?  I can just advance it a little on the adjustment, I have an idea where the number fall on these already.  I mean it will run and that's all we need to know. 

I think I will do it tonight, as it is cool out.........

Thoughts???????????

Can everyone cross thier fingers!!!

[1BadAssBusa]

Looks as if I was dead nuts on RIGHT!!!!!!!!!   The Intake cam was installed 180 degrees off!!!!  Installed the original cams, with the exhaust sprocket on correctly and it started right up.......

I KNEW once the problem was found, it would be an obvious problem.  At least overlooking somone elses work is something I will never mess up on again......LOL


Only issue now is, it's running HOT!!!!  205 when I shut it off.  Maybe it has air in the system???  How should I fix this on a 1000???

I am running ENGINE ICE and no Thermostat, per Richards instructions.....  Right now it's running with NO PC III USB, so I could issolate the problem.  But it MUST be running LEAN as a bastard now, that could be causing the engine to overheat????  Maybe if I install the PC III USB and richen up the low RPM 500-4000rpms and give like 5-15% more fuel in this range it may cool it off enough not to overheat.  I am sure at cruising speed it will be OK.

Maybe it needs to be riden a little to get the air out of the system????

Any ideas guys?????  What cooling tricks are there for a 1000???????????




PS:  I would really like to thank Atticdog (Jay) for staying until 11PM tonight to help me get it running!!!!  Your a good friend, i hope your wife is not mad at you......  We will install a Turbo on your BUSA this winter!!!!!!  Thanks to everyone else for all your ideas and support.  Now let's get this bitch running cool............

[Shamrock]

new gsxr fans dont kick on untill  220  if your running secondery fueling system  like you are you should be fine just set fuel presuure at 43 psi 

[1BadAssBusa]

new gsxr fans dont kick on untill  220  if your running secondery fueling system  like you are you should be fine just set fuel presuure at 43 psi 

WOW 220    Are you serious???  My old fan use to kick on at 179.  But something is wrong, it's not kicking on at all and needs to use the switch I installed to make it turn the fan on.  But I turned it on at 180 degrees so i wouldn't know.......

[atticdog]

PS:  I would really like to thank Atticdog (Jay) for staying until 11PM tonight to help me get it running!!!!  Your a good friend, i hope your wife is not mad at you......  We will install a Turbo on your BUSA this winter!!!!!!  Thanks to everyone else for all your ideas and support.  Now let's get this bitch running cool............

no problem bro
she wasnt mad till i just woke her up lol at11:50

I think we just need to get more air out of the system and it will run cooler