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Author Topic: stock bore with .415/.395  (Read 14757 times)

Offline midnight black man

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stock bore with .415/.395
« on: October 29, 2007, 07:32:38 AM »
well...i'm intending to build a very powrfull stock bore busa...i'm hoping for approximately 200 on the wheel...now i have 188 with 12.8 cr(je 12.3 and block - head milled) ,tiforce sumo and yosh intake and stock intake on exhaust...

i've ported the head accordingly to withstand big cams,pushed the valve guides 1.3mm to have the adequate clearance for the cams and i'm going to buy heavy duty studs,webs .415/.395,cometic 0.46mm to achive 13.2-13.3 and  valve springs...deck height will be 1.1mm with the gasket...already have the high volume oil pump gear from ape...

my question is this...what kind of springs should i use,meaning how many lbs for that application...
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 03:20:19 AM by midnight black man »
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Offline SKILLZ

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2007, 10:01:05 AM »
We have really similar setups... I am stock bore also, and I have a set of the 395/378 cams I am going to install in a few weeks. I made 185.7 rwhp and 102.4 TQ with the dual intake setup, and am running the Sumo as well . This was on 93 pump gas. Kind of curious myself of how much the cams are going to pick my setup up. I got a set of hd springs in mine now, I believe they are 60lb.
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Offline midnight black man

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2007, 11:36:53 AM »
 carpenter's?
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Offline SKILLZ

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2007, 11:38:02 AM »
Nope i ported the head myself.
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Offline Steve S

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2007, 12:14:07 PM »
Quote from: midnight black man on October 29, 2007, 07:32:38 AM
well...i'm intending to build a very powrfull stock bore busa...i'm hoping for approximately 200 on the wheel...now i have 188 with 12.8 cr(je 12.3 and block - head milled) ,tiforce sumo and yosh intake and stock intake on exhaust...

i've ported the head accordingly to withstand big cams,pushed the valve guides 1.3mm to have the adequate clearance for the cams and i'm going to buy heavy duty studs,webs .415/.395,cometic 0.18 to achive 13.2-13.3 and  valve springs...deck height will be 0.41 with the gasket...already have the high volume oil pump gear from ape...

my question is this...what kind of springs should i use,meaning how many lbs for that application...

The 62# Carpenter or 65# APE should do the job. Separately, would you mind elaborating upon the porting you did to accomodate the larger cams?
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Offline midnight black man

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2007, 02:40:30 PM »
larger cross sectional areas...i was at 83% and went to 90% by flatening the floors a bit more and smoothening the turns on seilings...the bigger lift at the same duration would make speed very high due to the faster opening of the valve so i went with more volume to slow it down and keep relatively same speeds as before...i don't have any flow numbers to give you...i never flow my heads,especially after having seen big numbers on the bench resulting in poor numbers on the street...

skillz...i meant carpenter springs...
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Offline Quasar

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2007, 04:24:41 PM »
Quote from: midnight black man on October 29, 2007, 07:32:38 AM
well...i'm intending to build a very powrfull stock bore busa...i'm hoping for approximately 200 on the wheel...now i have 188 with 12.8 cr(je 12.3 and block - head milled) ,tiforce sumo and yosh intake and stock intake on exhaust...

i've ported the head accordingly to withstand big cams,pushed the valve guides 1.3mm to have the adequate clearance for the cams and i'm going to buy heavy duty studs,webs .415/.395,cometic 0.18 to achive 13.2-13.3 and  valve springs...deck height will be 0.41 with the gasket...already have the high volume oil pump gear from ape...

my question is this...what kind of springs should i use,meaning how many lbs for that application...

If you're going to install large cams, make them worth your money by also installing some higher compression stock bore pistons. Since you've pulled the head, it's a fairly simple matter to pop in some higher compression stock bore pistons to achieve some extra punch from idle through redline. :yes:

I've been using higher compression stock bore pistons for many years now with my Web .378"/.330" cams and I love the way it wakes up the engine. Even after all these years, it still puts a shit eatin' grin on my mug. You'd be surprised by the improvement made by 13:1 compression at the stock bore.
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Offline midnight black man

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2007, 04:46:22 PM »
quasar...i already have 12.3 je pistons...i have the head milled 0.6mm and the block 0.22mm(it was warped)..a total of 0.28mm which after my calculations has given me 12.9 cr... i intend to use 0.46mm cometic head gasket so i believe i'll be near 13.2-13.3...i know that my p/v clearance will be less by 0.6 mm but the je pockets are 0.7mm deeper than the  stock ones...with high lobe centers in the area of 108 i believe that my clearance will be adequate...

i know that a better solution would be the 13.5 cr je but bare with me...i only have 1000km on these ones... :cry:
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 03:40:26 AM by midnight black man »
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Offline Nosgsx1300

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2007, 05:04:03 PM »
Quote from: midnight black man on October 29, 2007, 04:46:22 PM
quasar...i already have 12.3 je pistons...i have the head milled 0.6mm and the block 2.2mm(it was warped)..a total of 2.8mm which after my calculations has given me 12.9 cr... i intend to use 0.18 cometic head gasket so i believe i'll be near 13.2-13.3...i know that my p/v clearance will be less by 0.6 mm but the je pockets are 0.7 deeper than the  stock ones...with high lobe centers in the area of 108 i believe that my clearance will be adequate...

i know that a better solution would be the 13.5 cr je but bare with me...i only have 1000km on these ones... :cry:
.18mm headgasket?
I would worry about the piston touching the head at high revs
casue the piston will rock in the bores a bit
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Offline gnd111

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2007, 05:59:24 PM »
.018 Cometic is what he means... :thumb:
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Offline gazza414

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2007, 07:12:01 PM »
Quote from: midnight black man on October 29, 2007, 04:46:22 PM
quasar...i already have 12.3 je pistons...i have the head milled 0.6mm and the block 2.2mm(it was warped)..a total of 2.8mm which after my calculations has given me 12.9 cr... i intend to use 0.18 cometic head gasket so i believe i'll be near 13.2-13.3...i know that my p/v clearance will be less by 0.6 mm but the je pockets are 0.7 deeper than the  stock ones...with high lobe centers in the area of 108 i believe that my clearance will be adequate...

i know that a better solution would be the 13.5 cr je but bare with me...i only have 1000km on these ones... :cry:

Just doesnt sound right 2.2mm off the block....you know that's 88thou?...the numbers dont add up unless you have a spacer under the block to compensate?
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Offline gnd111

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2007, 07:17:55 PM »
He probably means .022...  He does not seem good with math...   :lol:
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Offline Streaker00

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2007, 07:51:29 PM »
Quote from: gnd111 on October 29, 2007, 07:17:55 PM
He probably means .022...  He does not seem good with math...   :lol:
:rfl:
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Offline midnight black man

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2007, 03:08:10 AM »
Quote from: gnd111 on October 29, 2007, 07:17:55 PM
He probably means .022...  He does not seem good with math...   :lol:

correct...0.22mm...when the math teacher talked about numbers i had my mind on tight girl's asses... :lol:

cut me some slack here...i read here and everything is in inches while here in europe we calculate in mm...

so...from now on only mm...(edited all the above)  8)

« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 03:46:14 AM by midnight black man »
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Offline Nosgsx1300

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2007, 03:35:18 AM »
I wouls still worry that a .018 inch headgasket is still really thin

I still would worry about that being too close
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Offline midnight black man

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2007, 03:42:43 AM »
Quote from: Nosgsx1300 on October 30, 2007, 03:35:18 AM
I wouls still worry that a .018 inch headgasket is still really thin

I still would worry about that being too close

my deck height with that gasket will be 1.1mm...i believe its safe...
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Offline Nosgsx1300

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2007, 03:52:36 AM »
1.1mm is about .044 should be fine

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Offline crazybill

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2007, 12:33:02 PM »
stock bore/stroke motor i just did with the same pistons , much smaller cams than you mentioned and one of my heads .

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/crazybill1397/ADoddstockboremtr.jpg

(blue line was a 29 jet dry , obviously)

BTW , THIS WAS ON SPEEDWAY 93 OCTANE PUMP GAS !
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 04:21:37 PM by crazybill »
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Offline Yngve

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2007, 02:33:40 PM »
Thomas Johansson did this in 2001:


Red one is Stock bore, stock stroke Hayabusa.

The blue are 1400cc....

Edit because of wrong name ......
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 03:13:24 PM by Yngve »
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Offline Nosgsx1300

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2007, 02:48:36 PM »
AH
Stock "bore"
Not stock stroke
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Offline Steve S

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2007, 02:57:29 PM »
Patrick Johansson did this in 2001:


Yngve, was this with an epoxied head?


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Offline Yngve

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2007, 03:08:58 PM »
I really don`t know but I guess it was.

It also had one of his own Sidewinder 4-1 exhaust systems.

http://www.atomracing.se/

Take a look at the W-9 engine he made....

And his name was THOMAS Johansson....

« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 03:12:12 PM by Yngve »
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Offline crazybill

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2007, 03:48:31 PM »
5 hp from an extra 100cc ? sup with that ?

red and blue line look like the same motor... sure you dont mean the green line is stock bore/stroke ?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 04:06:25 PM by crazybill »
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Offline Yngve

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2007, 01:34:42 AM »
The green line is an all stock engine ( and that will tell you a little about if the dyno is happy or not...  a little happy maybye ).

And yes it looks like only 5hp from 100 cc but I don't know if its 10-1 or 14-1 the 1400.   This was way back and the first time I presented this graph Here on Suzukihayabusa everybody didn't believe it.   Nowadays its almost common with over 200+ rwhp from a Hayabusa.

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Offline gazza414

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Re: stock bore with .415/.395
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2007, 02:45:07 AM »
not stock bore , std stroke running pump
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