Haybusa Parts and Service Member Support

Author Topic: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted  (Read 13042 times)

Offline bigpawk

  • Rider
  • ***
  • Posts: 58
  • Gender: Male
Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« on: November 05, 2007, 10:16:57 PM »
Ok, i want to start by saying i read through the suspension posts and i need some more direct opinions. The weather i nicer than usually here in jersey for this time of year but i had a back operation today, so, i'm sure my riding season is over. I have an 07 and appearently counter to most busa owners i find my interest is the twisties.

Its time to think about winter mods.

First, geometry. I'm little over weight since hurting the back but my natural and relatively fit weight is around 250 lbs. I'm 6'1 with long arms and legs and the standard geometry of the bike fits me better than all the others i've been on. My higher than average weight allows me to throw the bike around like lighter riders on lighter bikes. I suspect minor adjustments can be made to better accomodate me and was hoping for suggestions from someone with experience at my relative size.

Second, front and rear suspension. I have no experience with adjusting suspensions and with the relative low cost of having a pro do it i'm leaning toward paying someone, but i prefer being an educated consumer so i can properly discribe what i want. All lot of the posts i read were a little over my head. Experienced suggestions would be greatlly appreciated.

third, usefulness of aftermarket steering dampeners. I won't be doing any track days in the near future, i'm much more concerned with more confidently keeping up with my boys with smaller, more manuverable standard and sportbikes.

Fourth, braking system settings or changes. I'm not sure if its just my bike, but i find it difficult to trail. the rear brake has an "on or off" quality i find disconcerning. Also, for a bike with this much ass they just seem a little substandard to me.

Fifth, any thoughts on the benefits of replacing the bridgestones it came with. they're not beat up yet but any significant improvement would be money well spent in my opinion. my joy rides take place between high speed highways and tight twisty back roads that are generally pretty well paved. Worth mentioning is the fact that i used my last bike for day to day errands and commuting when possible, so i don't want to totally sacrifice drivability. I put more miles on my bikes last summer than i did my car.

I know this is a tall order, and i'd like to thank anyone willing to help with this in advance.
today wasn't about results, it was about attitude...and I had a great one

Offline EtrnlSoldier

  • Mad Post Whore
  • ******
  • Posts: 2209
  • Gender: Male
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2007, 01:18:32 PM »
Hopefully Kirk will respond.  He's the man when it comes to this kind of stuff. 

I'll help with what little I can.  I ordered RaceTech springs for my bodyweight (I think mine were the 1.10) and valve kit for the front.  Had a local dealer install it. I had them adjust the adjust the sag front and back for my weight.  The rear didn't really need any more than that.  The front springs for my weight (235ish unsuited) made adjusting preload unnecessary.  For brakes, I used Galfer pads, changed to steel braided lines and pazzo shorty levers.  All of the above cured some problems I'd had at trackdays.  One problem was that I was bottoming out my front suspension in tight turns, making the bike wallow underneath me.  I also was having to brake earlier to get that mass of bike and me slowed down to an acceptable turn in speed.  Now I can run later into the turns and carry a bit more speed, without the front suspension bottoming out.  I also had to add rearsets (Gilles in my case) to raise my size 12 feet up a couple of inches as, I was going through toe sliders on my boots at an unacceptable rate (3 pairs in one trackday). 

I also raised the bike an inch in the rear (turned out to be more like 1 1/2 inches).  This also aided in resolving the toe dragging issue, seems to have helped the bike turn in easier, and pretty much eliminates the dragging of hard parts.  Well, that combined with changing the exhaust to HMF dual high mounts, as I'd lightly drug my cans a couple of times.  Helps get rid of unwanted weight and ups the horsepower too. 

For tires, I've got Pilot Powers on mine (not the 2CT yet, as I had a couple of sets of the originals laying around that I got on sale), and they also will make the bike dive in to the turns quicker than the stockers, due to the shape.  They stick well, even on a wet track during a rainstorm (knee down in the rain?  OK!).  I would probably go with the 2CT type now but, the originals have worked great for me so far. 

As far as the steering damper, well, the stocker works just dandy.  No need to change oil or buy a new one unless you just want to.  If you're riding with minimal pressure on the bars like you should be, headshake on a Hayabusa isn't an issue. 

You've probably already seen this section of the site but here it is anyway just in case.  Lots of good stuff here.

Lastly, the most important "mod" in my opinion is one that has to do with you.  Attend a good track school (the good ones are pricey, but worth every penny, I recommend this one), and then start participating in a few track days a year, always seeking to improve.  This alone will do the most for you being able to keep up with your buddies on their lighter bikes.  In fact, if they've not gone to school and/or the track, likely they'll be working to keep up with you.  No kidding. 

Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2007, 01:20:27 PM by EtrnlSoldier »
"Straights are for fast bikes.  Turns are for fast riders."

Me.

Offline bigpawk

  • Rider
  • ***
  • Posts: 58
  • Gender: Male
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2007, 05:12:32 PM »
thanks, pal. i did already read those tech posts. maybe kird will chime in. as far as the school goes, thanks, but i live in jersey and need to find something a little closer.
today wasn't about results, it was about attitude...and I had a great one

Offline CADDYWOMPUS

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Mad Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 3921
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2007, 04:10:59 PM »
Call ron at  Washington Cycle Works for suspension set up . Best road race orented shop ive found around Jersey .. I think he'll set your susp. for about 40 bucks.He's an honest guy that wont try to sell you shit you dont need.
  IMO the  bt  056s are OK if you get some heat into them .Sometimes hard to do in these lower temps  but when they come in you can rail .  Only 300 miles on my 07 busa but 37  psi frt and rear is working pretty well for me . The busa corners better than I thought it would .
 I also agree it needs no extra steering damper .
I would'nt  know about rear brake cause I dont like it or use it much out side of parking lots.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2007, 12:47:09 PM by zzr12pete »
"you are both queerbait and im the queer"-pat dietrich

Offline hayabusa36

  • Apprentice Post Whore
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Gender: Male
  • At 200mph You Have No Friends.....
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2007, 08:41:41 PM »
know any riding schools in n.y.?
2006 Black/Gray Hayabusa
Ram Air Seals
2 Air Box Mods
BMC Race Air Filter
Pair Valve Mod
Ti-Force Exhaust
Power Commander
Ivan TRE
12:1 JE Pistons
Custom Cut Race Cams
Ported/Polished Head
Large Stainless Valves
HD Valve Springs
Clutch Basket

Offline bigpawk

  • Rider
  • ***
  • Posts: 58
  • Gender: Male
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2007, 08:37:18 AM »
i've asked around and the closest road course to me seems to be in the poconos. it would be about the same distance if you live in the city, but i guess that depends what part of NY your from. search poconos raceway and you'll get a couple of hits.
today wasn't about results, it was about attitude...and I had a great one

Offline Ardec2

  • Rider
  • ***
  • Posts: 72
  • Gender: Male
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2007, 09:43:16 AM »
 Do alot of busa's      and it is true most busa riders seem to wanna go low and staright and fast!

on the other hand i get to ride alot of bikes,. and I love the busa for its nimble handling at speed.

If the post discussions are a bit over yer head IMHO   keep reading and asking questions. The concepts are not that difficult if broken down into steps. I'l be more than happy to explain any question or refer you to someone who can

As to your specific questions "more specific' id suggest getting help and learning to do your own sag and records,.. the biggest reason is no matter who helps you you can go back and double check to see that they did what they said,. and did it work or not!

  there are things about your post that i might question and make suggestions,... 1st the riders wieght is no more a factor then the ride geomety,.. in other words no matter how heavy a rider is if the geometry is low and soft all the weight and muscle effort is a waste!

 it is also true that a bigger rider might be stronger ,...   a bike that is taller is quicker to flick,.. thats why most race bikes sit higher!   Id suggest getting before and after sag numbers, and hopefully getting a spring rate that is in the middle of preload adjuster as it allows you to fine tune  quickly or change from a summer canyon carve to a winter rain freeway!  a few turns of the pre and a quick compression adjust makes the properly set up bike  easier to ride.   Dont worry about the specif numbers, record sag and then keep track of what you like!

on steering dampners remember that these are really nothing more then a bandaid or quick fix for a geometry or riders error, the ideal bike set up wont need one,... on the other hand,... I prefer easy to see and quick to adjust as i like to change my settings from road to freeway to garage!

on brakes,... personally stock brakes are fine ive run stock brakes and lines and the capacity of the stock stuf as well as the safety is beyond my abilities. My opinion is most street guys spend too much money improving brake systems that they arent even properly using!   

as for trail braking problems   I seldom if ever use the rear brakes,.. Its a fact that you can go faster than you think without ever using the rears,... My race partner rider never uses rears in thousands of race and street miles,.   also rears will get you into trouble quicker,... hit the rears too hard in the middle of a corner,.. wham instant rear induced low slide,.. too much fronts will stand the bike up a bit and slow it much quicker!

as for tires   if youve got the money and love great handling bikes spend yer last dimes and gets some great pilots or similar  tey are worth every penny!

robert


robert-  to most a "YANKEE",.  i live in the south and tell em "but i'm from "southern" california!

Offline CADDYWOMPUS

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Mad Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 3921
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2007, 12:43:59 PM »


on steering dampners remember that these are really nothing more then a bandaid or quick fix for a geometry or riders error, the ideal bike set up wont need one,...

on brakes,... personally stock brakes are fine ive run stock brakes and lines and the capacity of the stock stuf as well as the safety is beyond my abilities. My opinion is most street guys spend too much money improving brake systems that they arent even properly using!   






damn, we're startng t agree on a few things
"you are both queerbait and im the queer"-pat dietrich

Offline CADDYWOMPUS

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Mad Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 3921
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2007, 12:51:01 PM »
i've asked around and the closest road course to me seems to be in the poconos. it would be about the same distance if you live in the city, but i guess that depends what part of NY your from. search poconos raceway and you'll get a couple of hits.
All the local clubs use Pocano . I highly recomend their East course for a beginner . A little bumpy but very fun . A great place to learn . Forget the FUSA course it blows. Its just very high speed mayhem.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2007, 12:52:34 PM by zzr12pete »
"you are both queerbait and im the queer"-pat dietrich

Offline LE05BUSA

  • Rider
  • ***
  • Posts: 492
  • Gender: Male
  • If you say so...
    • LABusas.oRg
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2007, 01:24:52 AM »
Sorry...I haven't been around much lately. For your weight, you want 1.1kg/mm springs up front with 10wt oil at the stock level. In the rear, either have the shock revalved and resprung with a spring around 850lb/in (Eibach is your best bet) or buy a new shock from Elka, Works, FG, Hyperpro, Ohlins, Fox, etc. with the correct spring. Use +1" (+25mm) dogbones!!! If you need help, I can supply everything you need. Give me a call at Suzuki Of Van Nuys (Tue-Fri/9:30-6:00 Sat/9:30-5:00) and I'll get you squared away and at a good deal. The telephone number is (818) 994-2882.

-Steve


This is my bike at Irwindale Dragstrip earlier this year...

1.2kg/mm Racetech's, Works Performance revalved shock with 900lb/in Eibach spring, +1" links, Sato Rearsets, Mikuni top clamp & clip-on's, Brembo's, etc.




Offline canyon carver

  • Rider
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
  • Gender: Male
  • Another sunny day in LA
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2008, 07:14:01 PM »
I have an 03 I use in the canyons. I found that swapping out the swing arm for a GSXR 1000 shortened it up around 1-3/8" and really helped in tight turns. This was not an easy mod. I had Race-Tech re-spring and valve my forks which is a no brainer for anyone over 180lbs. The front brakes suck a Busa is an easy 100lbs heavier than a liter bike, wave rotors are a must for anyone without chicken strips. I run 40mm sag in front and 35mm in the rear. I set up my compression as soft as possible in front and match the rear. I set up my rebound front just enough to not po-go on me and dial in the rear a little stiffer (I use rearsets that set me back 1.25" an the same up. I also dropped my forks just enough to eliminate the isolators. Lastly with your stock rear sets, go down to your hardware store and get 12mm washers, remove your rearset bolts insert washers and replace bolts. This will give you a much better road feel when weighting your pegs. I also went for a set of Carrozzeria wheels and run Mich. CT's. I have 46k on my Busa with no complaints other than needing to have 2nd gear undercut.
Faster is Better

Offline Ardec2

  • Rider
  • ***
  • Posts: 72
  • Gender: Male
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2008, 09:40:41 AM »
swap swing arm,.. pop-pop settings, ?   i thought we were beiing serious that last post destroys any idea of a stock type bike or decent geometry,.. 
robert-  to most a "YANKEE",.  i live in the south and tell em "but i'm from "southern" california!

Offline LE05BUSA

  • Rider
  • ***
  • Posts: 492
  • Gender: Male
  • If you say so...
    • LABusas.oRg
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2008, 12:57:36 PM »
swap swing arm,.. pop-pop settings, ?   i thought we were beiing serious that last post destroys any idea of a stock type bike or decent geometry,.. 

'01-'04 1000 arm is a no-brainer, provided you use the pivot link and associated hardware.

Offline canyon carver

  • Rider
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
  • Gender: Male
  • Another sunny day in LA
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2008, 07:39:51 PM »
Ardec,
You misread po-go as pop pop.
Leo,
With the 750 or 1000 swingarm there is deffinitely modification. There is less modification if you use the 1000 bell crank, but you lose too much travel witnessed by my 1st attempt. If you want this mod, make sure the stock bell crank will work. You will also need to have dog bones made, the only real plug and play part is the 1000 brake arm.
If you are serious about canyons I could'nt reccomend a better set-up. I also went up one tooth in the rear and dialed the spedo in with a spedo-healer. I've had no head shake at high speeds, the front end lifts easy under power in 1st and 2nd so drag racing from a dead stop can be........exiteing.

Faster is Better

Offline canyon carver

  • Rider
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
  • Gender: Male
  • Another sunny day in LA
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2008, 07:54:42 PM »
Leo, I noticed you're in Northridge. I'm usually at the Rock Store Sundays from around 11:30 to 12:30. Silver and Grey, hard to miss. I usually have a silver helmet on the mirror.
Faster is Better

Offline LE05BUSA

  • Rider
  • ***
  • Posts: 492
  • Gender: Male
  • If you say so...
    • LABusas.oRg
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2008, 11:40:10 PM »
I hardly ever go to the Cock Store anymore...too many morons there for my taste. People can't stay on their side of the road, keep the bike upright, or learn to use their brakes before a corner instead of in the middle of it. I am at Suzuki Of Van Nuys everyday and you are always welcome to stop by if you so desire.

Offline CADDYWOMPUS

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Mad Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 3921
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2008, 05:35:15 PM »
I hardly ever go to the Cock Store anymore...

the  COCK  store  ???  :shock: :shock: :shock:
Oh wait ,I forgot you're in California  :lol:
"you are both queerbait and im the queer"-pat dietrich

Offline LE05BUSA

  • Rider
  • ***
  • Posts: 492
  • Gender: Male
  • If you say so...
    • LABusas.oRg
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2008, 05:24:00 AM »
I hardly ever go to the Cock Store anymore...

the  COCK  store  ???  :shock: :shock: :shock:
Oh wait ,I forgot you're in California  :lol:

It's full of dickheads so I tend to refer to it as that.  :lol:

Offline EtrnlSoldier

  • Mad Post Whore
  • ******
  • Posts: 2209
  • Gender: Male
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2008, 12:16:51 PM »
I hardly ever go to the Cock Store anymore...

the  COCK  store  ???  :shock: :shock: :shock:
Oh wait ,I forgot you're in California  :lol:

Maybe he's gonna buy a holster there.  Maybe he already has one.  Dunno...
"Straights are for fast bikes.  Turns are for fast riders."

Me.

Offline canyon carver

  • Rider
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
  • Gender: Male
  • Another sunny day in LA
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2008, 01:37:19 PM »
Whenever you have a couple of hundred bikes in one place your bound to run into a few idiots. Granted, the Rock Store has more than its fair share of weekend warriors and credit card wannabes. Hey, It's LA, where else can you see $50,000 + bikes with movie stars that don't know where the spark plugs go. Jay Leno typically stops by Sundays around lunch with a unique car or bike. It's a scene and an institution, a must see for any biker visiting LA. Within 10min there's at least a dozen canyon roads most people only dream about. An hour at the Rock Store Sunday afternoon, I wouldn't miss it, the Yahoos seem to dissapear in the canyons.
Faster is Better

Offline Mospeada

  • Post Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1785
  • Gender: Male
  • Representing San Diego's back roads. Woot!
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2008, 03:23:49 PM »
Roughly where is the Rock Store anyway? I'm in San Diego, but am looking to expand to new roads and explore. If you even come down this way, I can tell you where all the good roads/hangouts are.
Take off like a 13, flick it like a 6


Offline canyon carver

  • Rider
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
  • Gender: Male
  • Another sunny day in LA
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2008, 02:37:39 AM »
Try to get there around 11 and you will more than likely catch Leno. Ed and Vern are the owners, the most "Mature" people you will see, a pretty damn cool Husband and Wife team. There's usually a couple of turbo Busas and 3 or 4 "regular deal" Busas there at any given time. Burgers are exactly what you would expect and talking to complete strangers is part of the scene. Being part of the family requires only that your there. Allways a couple biker babes (usually before noon) that can run circles around 90% of the gathering an perty dern easy on the eyes. Finding a group to run with is easy, ask Vern where either Phil, Gene, Rick, Lane, Crash.... oh yea, me, Mykl with the Hayabusa are. If you like the canyons prepare for twisty heaven. Oh and a couple of spots you can check out your rev limiter. I meet a couple of guys in the Valley around 9 if you want to get out earlier.
Faster is Better

Offline gouveia

  • New User!
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Serious Suspension Experience Wanted
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2008, 09:26:41 PM »
Ok, i want to start by saying i read through the suspension posts and i need some more direct opinions. The weather i nicer than usually here in jersey for this time of year but i had a back operation today, so, i'm sure my riding season is over. I have an 07 and appearently counter to most busa owners i find my interest is the twisties.

Its time to think about winter mods.

First, geometry. I'm little over weight since hurting the back but my natural and relatively fit weight is around 250 lbs. I'm 6'1 with long arms and legs and the standard geometry of the bike fits me better than all the others i've been on. My higher than average weight allows me to throw the bike around like lighter riders on lighter bikes. I suspect minor adjustments can be made to better accomodate me and was hoping for suggestions from someone with experience at my relative size.

Second, front and rear suspension. I have no experience with adjusting suspensions and with the relative low cost of having a pro do it i'm leaning toward paying someone, but i prefer being an educated consumer so i can properly discribe what i want. All lot of the posts i read were a little over my head. Experienced suggestions would be greatlly appreciated.

third, usefulness of aftermarket steering dampeners. I won't be doing any track days in the near future, i'm much more concerned with more confidently keeping up with my boys with smaller, more manuverable standard and sportbikes.

Fourth, braking system settings or changes. I'm not sure if its just my bike, but i find it difficult to trail. the rear brake has an "on or off" quality i find disconcerning. Also, for a bike with this much ass they just seem a little substandard to me.

Fifth, any thoughts on the benefits of replacing the bridgestones it came with. they're not beat up yet but any significant improvement would be money well spent in my opinion. my joy rides take place between high speed highways and tight twisty back roads that are generally pretty well paved. Worth mentioning is the fact that i used my last bike for day to day errands and commuting when possible, so i don't want to totally sacrifice drivability. I put more miles on my bikes last summer than i did my car.

I know this is a tall order, and i'd like to thank anyone willing to help with this in advance.

I'm 6'4" and 230 pounds, so I need a bike that can accommodate my ergos. I do prefer the Twisties than the whole 200M/H thing. I'm also looking into doing some re-work on my front fork. I have an 05 with 15K Miles. Last year I spent 1 week doing Tail of the Dragon and stuff. Before getting there I went to a local shop (extremely reliable) and I put the Pilot Power 2CT front and rear and they adjusted the Busa's suspension to my weight. HUGE DIFFERENCE between the tires and suspension. The bike will dive into the corners.

Now that I've experienced some of the curves with the Busa I was easily able to bottom the front suspension. Like someone else in this thread mention, with stock hardware you find yourself breaking way before the turn to "stabilize" all the busa's weight so you can have decent in turn suspension play.

I'll be taking my busa to my mechanic soon and I'll let you know what I have done to the forks. Don't have much to spend on it, so probably will be springs and oil only.

Last but not least, you have to do the breaks. EBC HH pads and breaded lines. It will make a BIG difference. If you don't, and you probably know this already, you'll be running in to brake fading (as I did) and it is freaking scary. :)

Good luck with your mods.