2008 Hayabusa vs 2008 ZX-14 on the dyno

[Bruce Bohannon]

Wasn't "Rickey's" 08 14 bike also running way too rich at a recent Drag Event?  Perhaps Dynojet doesn't have their PCIII sorted just yet? 

[1300hemibusa]

Wasn't "Rickey's" 08 14 bike also running way too rich at a recent Drag Event?  Perhaps Dynojet doesn't have their PCIII sorted just yet? 

Dynojet Doesn't have a p/c yet for the 08 zx14   and a 06 07 will NOT work as he found out ...  The map in a zx14 changes with every gear change so  using 5th  may make a tad more HP....  The zx14 is mapped very rich  and that is plane to see on the 06 ,07 and now the 08 ...Ram air does play a big part on the zx14 ...The sensor in the air box is a temp sensor only , no closed loop system or O2 is used .. Ricky Gadson bike picked up a great deal on the dyno by just pulling the air filter...  I run a BMC race filter in mine but it will still go faster with the filter removed but i hate running without a filter of some kind ..

[Gary B]

Rickeys 08 bike at G-Ville was very LEAN after he had his pipe on with no tuning. The dyno was fine, but with ram-air of racing, it became lean. Rather than hurt it, he parked it.

[1300hemibusa]

Rickeys 08 bike at G-Ville was very LEAN after he had his pipe on with no tuning. The dyno was fine, but with ram-air of racing, it became lean. Rather than hurt it, he parked it.

Very true  and the U4.2  he was using helped lean it out also ...

[EtrnlSoldier]

The Kaw maybe mapped for the street and not the dyno....

I've run a 14 with my 08 Busa over and over, and the results aren't consistent with an 11hp difference between the bikes. 

So the 14's are kicking your ass or other way around or are they close enough that 11rwhp seems right since that would be less than 2mph in the 1/4.

D: None of the above

We've run the two bikes against each other probably 6 or 7 times now and every time it's the same. The Busa pulls the 14 maybe one or two bikes at the hit. (usually around 50 mph) The 14 starts pulling it back slowly and we've shut them down around 170. At that speed they've been next to each other within a half bike length.

His 14 is an 06, he pulled the flies and added a PC3. He probably has the af cleaned up with the pc. My Busa is just as it sat on the dealers floor, now with 300 miles on the clock, less some stickers...

Just saying, real world riding, the bikes look to be closer than the dyno shows.

Umm, a 14 with the flies pulled and a PC3 makes quite a bit more power than a stock 14.  This might explain why it's so close to a stock 08 Busa.  If anything, this only confirms what rotts is saying.

[gnd111]

All kawasaki bikes are dyno tested at the end of the assy line, if there are any issues with power output they are sent back to repair to get corrected.

Really?  I don;t think they have time to do that to 40,000 bikes every year...  No matter what happens Hemi14R will not let the Busa win...

[BikeMech]

The Kaw maybe mapped for the street and not the dyno....

I've run a 14 with my 08 Busa over and over, and the results aren't consistent with an 11hp difference between the bikes. 

So the 14's are kicking your ass or other way around or are they close enough that 11rwhp seems right since that would be less than 2mph in the 1/4.

D: None of the above

We've run the two bikes against each other probably 6 or 7 times now and every time it's the same. The Busa pulls the 14 maybe one or two bikes at the hit. (usually around 50 mph) The 14 starts pulling it back slowly and we've shut them down around 170. At that speed they've been next to each other within a half bike length.

His 14 is an 06, he pulled the flies and added a PC3. He probably has the af cleaned up with the pc. My Busa is just as it sat on the dealers floor, now with 300 miles on the clock, less some stickers...

Just saying, real world riding, the bikes look to be closer than the dyno shows.

Umm, a 14 with the flies pulled and a PC3 makes quite a bit more power than a stock 14.  This might explain why it's so close to a stock 08 Busa.  If anything, this only confirms what rotts is saying.

  reading is fundamental.....

[Dannygzx14r]

so the busa made 170 out ofthe box and the 14 159 correct ? I just want to make sure what i am reading is right

BULLSHIT!!!!

[ZX-ALAN]

Very good test, good tracking of the variables but honestly, something is fucked on that ZX14, look at the AFR curve, its horrible....that thing is so rich up top i am suprised it even pulls to the limiter cleanly....Once that bike is tuned and/or repaired, its going to match that 170hp..... There is AT LEAST 10hp lost from that AFR.....

Basically, the bikes are dead even powerwise....IMOP

[grecco]

kinda what i was thinking...

[BikeMech]

Very good test, good tracking of the variables but honestly, something is fucked on that ZX14, look at the AFR curve, its horrible....that thing is so rich up top i am suprised it even pulls to the limiter cleanly....Once that bike is tuned and/or repaired, its going to match that 170hp..... There is AT LEAST 10hp lost from that AFR.....

Basically, the bikes are dead even powerwise....IMOP

  there is nothing wrong with afr on that 14..... once the bike is rolling and the ram air starts pressurizing the airbox i bet the af ratio will come right back to 13 to 1.......   

[BLUR AKA SIDEWAYS AKA KING OF SOUTH FLORIDA]

All kawasaki bikes are dyno tested at the end of the assy line, if there are any issues with power output they are sent back to repair to get corrected.

Really?  I don;t think they have time to do that to 40,000 bikes every year...  No matter what happens Hemi14R will not let the Busa win...

They might...I saw a show about an automobile assembly line(I think Ford) and every car went on a wheel dyno as the final step. I think with a bike it would be much more time consuming. And arent bikes shipped only partially assembled with no fluids??? Do they put them all together and then take them apart???

I wish you and Hemi would just thumb wrestle and get it over with already

[moregpz]

It's part of the quality control process. They run them thru a test cell/dyno to check power, gauges, tranmision ect. I used to work in the Lincoln Neb Kawasaki plant and my roommate was the testing engineer and took the bikes thru this process!

[jeffw]

159 -vs- 170... not bad at all.

All you wanna be dyno tuners out .... need to back off. We all know that numbers on a dyno mean nothing at all, unless the zx14 made more... they the kawa fans would be screaming out loud.

[rotts4u]

A call to Dynojet and they advised there is a grounding issue on the zx-14 and the powercommander has to be grounded somewhere else to make it work and that the 07-07 unit is supposed to work as is. I just talked to the owner and he is trying to get time today to install the PC and get it back on the dyno for some tuning. If I get any more updates I will post the data or chart

[Black-n-Blusa]

Check the intake of that 14 for a buzzard or something....

[ChrisCoupe]

buzzard ???..........nah dont ya know any true kawi fan would have said a falcon.... .......but your probably like myself not a kawi fan......

ChrisCoupe.....

[Black-n-Blusa]

Actually I am.  Suzuki fan too.  I even own a Yamaha.     I like anything that goes so I can be objective about it.  Something's not quite right there.....

[FearsomeKawasaki]

Ha ha, how anyone can take anything from that dyno run baffles me.

1) 07 14s make much more hp than that 08 14 and the 14 is stated as being stronger uncategorically by kawasaki.

2) The A/F tells the WHOLE story about this dyno run. It's a mess and to claim ram air will sort it is folly as the ram air on the 07 is precisely the same and it doesn't have such a disaster of a fuel curve.

3) Running so poorly, the 14 produced better torque. When dialled in with a decent map that torque will translate into alot of hp, probably at least the same as the new Busa. With it's ram air hp advantage the 14 will be stronger in flight. Aeros v hp again.

As for the saps who take this one run as read, please remember to pick up your packed lunches on the way to meet your school bus.

[nitrod86gt]

I think that Don made it very clear that the 14 obviously had a terrible fuel curve from the factory....i think the first test was dead nuts stock for both bikes...with this being the case, stock for stock, out of the box, the Busa is makeing more power...i would say the ram-air is definitly a factor to clean the Kawi up...I personally know Mark and Don and they are two very fair guys with nothing to prove...they were just trying to show u guys a back to back competition and provide you guys every factor to form your own opinions...there shouldnt be bitching either way because it REALLY DOESNT MATTER!!!! thanks for the comparison guys...im interested to see the 14 with the PCIII on it

[EtrnlSoldier]

Ha ha, how anyone can take anything from that dyno run baffles me.

1) 07 14s make much more hp than that 08 14 and the 14 is stated as being stronger uncategorically by kawasaki.

2) The A/F tells the WHOLE story about this dyno run. It's a mess and to claim ram air will sort it is folly as the ram air on the 07 is precisely the same and it doesn't have such a disaster of a fuel curve.

3) Running so poorly, the 14 produced better torque. When dialled in with a decent map that torque will translate into alot of hp, probably at least the same as the new Busa. With it's ram air hp advantage the 14 will be stronger in flight. Aeros v hp again.

As for the saps who take this one run as read, please remember to pick up your packed lunches on the way to meet your school bus.

Ah, so, then what you're saying is that this particular 14 was a lemon?  Kinda gets back to what I said in another thread about quality control and Kawasaki parts/labor being contracted out to China. 

But then, you don't own a ZX-14 or a Busa so, why do you care, troll boy?

Got that ancient ZX-12 paid off yet?  Didn't think so.   

[jeffw]

FK would not know a good dyno run if it bit him in the ass...... lets blame all of Kawa's problems on a poor dyno, or a single lemon of a bike.
Dyno is nothing more than a tuning tool..... never has been anything else. It appears that stock zx14's have plenty of room for tuning.

[rotts4u]

Day two update. The dyno operator Mark at Dynomasters called me back today and he got the Power commander working. So back to the dyno to map the bike tonight. I did not re run the Busa but here is the graph today with yesterday's 14 data on it too. As you can see the air fuel cleaned up a LOT and the bike gained some HP. He spent over 2 hours mapping the bike to do everything possible to get the most power he could. He also ran it in 4th and 5th gear as someone asked about and it made no difference. So the bike is making more HP but still several short of the Busa even mapped.

We also got another confirmation run today on a different dyno and they too are reporting lower HP on the 2008 ZX-14 compared to the 08 Busa. The dyno reads a little happier than this one but the difference stock for stock was still about 8-9hp. About the same as we saw.

So here is the Dyno of the 14 mapped and notice the Air fuel is now much closer to ideal compared to before.

[Gary B]

WOW! I didn't expect results so soon....again, very articulate and informative...thanks!

[Tybalt71]

Wow even with fixing the PC for the 14, the Busa is still on top , it's a close race, they are very good bikes, Congrats to both, busa stepped it up to be a strong contender where it should be