Elka vs Penske

[phierce]

Looking at both of these shocks for my '02
I would like some input on the Pro's and con's on both.
2-way adjust.
Most riding twisties and some light touring

Thanks

[mike46]

 Either would be OK. Make sure you get it with a remote preload adjuster and the right spring. Either company will help you out with that

[Mospeada]

Both are awesome. Got an Ohlins on the Busa, and a Penske on the 750. But both were put on years ago.

The Elka's however, are new and have already proven to be a very, very good contender. The are easy to adjust, have more range, and don't require you to break you knuckles if you want to span the height. The roller bearings for the spring adjustment is just one of those things that SHOULD have been invented years ago, but Elka got to it first in mass production.

Both are excellent, but personally I would go with the Elka. The adjustability, and cost factor, are unmatched.

[Ardec2]

i'm not a big fan of the "remote" preload adjusters,... they cost alot more and most people will never use it more then a couple times. Another reason is it adds weight, and the worsed thing in my opinion as a tuner is,. it makes big changes impossible while on the bike (ohlins for example) the adjuster is "supposed" to provide X mm range but in fact seldom provide that much. Ive taken both of mine off my race bikes, as I do alot of spring and preload changes.

[mike46]

i'm not a big fan of the "remote" preload adjusters,... they cost alot more and most people will never use it more then a couple times. Another reason is it adds weight, and the worsed thing in my opinion as a tuner is,. it makes big changes impossible while on the bike (ohlins for example) the adjuster is "supposed" to provide X mm range but in fact seldom provide that much. Ive taken both of mine off my race bikes, as I do alot of spring and preload changes.

If you ride on the street and have the right spring to begin with why would you need big changes. What do you mean by big? 1/2" or 3/4"of preload? Get a different spring as you are changing the rate characteristics of the spring by compressing it that much.

[phierce]

Ended up going with a Penske and couldn't be happier.
The Penske has a "one ring" preload collar with locking pins. Very light weight and accurate.

[Ardec2]

big is obviously a relative term,...  define "rate characteristics",.. that is not a normal spring technology term,.. or did you just make that up?,.. and i was specific that some people like tune their equipment to different tracks/riding environment,. im not dissing the hyd preload, im just pointing out an opinion as to its use and cost!

[Ardec2]

i should also point out that the "correct" spring for a rider is not a "Fixed" number you can get the exact same total or rider sag from two very different spring rates by adjusting the preload.  I read these boards now and then and there seems to be a lack of true understanding as to how suspension especially spring are selected and adjusted.  The so called best writers here are usually missing  one or more important points.  (me includied except my is usually typo rather then factual)

[mike46]

big is obviously a relative term,...  define "rate characteristics",.. that is not a normal spring technology term,.. or did you just make that up?,.. and i was specific that some people like tune their equipment to different tracks/riding environment,. im not dissing the hyd preload, im just pointing out an opinion as to its use and cost!

"Big" means measurement in my mind. If you crank a large amount of preload into a spring it can do everything from coil bind to no longer work as the spring it was intended to so. It's rising rate changes. I don't "make things up"....I do ...however....work within parameters.  If you are a "local" roadracer....I've dealt with them many times.....you don't have the many springs and rates available. Define "big" and I'll respond.

[Ardec2]

 ok back my 1st post I stated that the remote adjuster only moves X amount (ohlins is 10mm but it actually only moves about so big is related to that! If you installed a spring/shock/remote assy, and then in the course of adjusting the sag initially or changing it at a later time, IF you needed to go beyond the 10mm of the remote adjuster, (which in my experience is common track or street), Then you'd have to take the shock assy back off the bike and reset the preload adjusting screws.

As to you making things up, you have been doing just that or at least making statements that imply to me you don't understand. For example in this last reply of yours you stated that "Its rising rate changes" that implys to me you dont know about springs as nobody sells rising rate (progressive) springs for bikes! all the manufacturers sell linear rate. Anyone who understands springs would KNOW that "Spring Rate" is built into the spring and does not change from preload.  There is rising rate built into the bike linkages, but thats something very few people mess with (aside from the raising or lowering of a bikes ride hieght)

As a local budget rider racer tuner I'd rather spend 2-3-400 bucks on several different springs that allow BIG (as in 75-100lb) changes in spring rate, then use the same money for a cool looking lil gizmo that doesnt do much other then move up or down by 10mm!

Also according to you a street guy is going to set it up once and then never change it so WHY? do you need an expensive adjuster hanging there that never or seldom gets used!

It would take a HUGE (not big) amount of prelaod change to coil bind a spring unless the spring was so far off in the 1st place.

[Ardec2]

oh and the guy bought a Penske and is happy so this  whole conversation is moot

[mike46]

 You're certainly right about rising rates and progressively wound springs. I should have choosen my words better. On the other hand if you need more than 10mm of preload I'd get a stiffer spring. As for "nobody sells progressive springs for bikes......Progressive Suspension sells progressive fork springs and have done so for years. Hyperpro too. Dual rear shock bikes often use progressive springs.....I have a set of progressive rear springs on my Hyperpro shocks on an older bike. Many BMW's have a single rear shock with no linkage. They use progressive springs but maybe you don't consider them bikes?  I've seen guys who race use a Progressive spring in one fork and a straight rate in the other. Where you get my statement about a street guy never needing more spring preload is a mystery to me. If you ride a passenger frequently the adjuster is very handy. Who wants to lay on the ground and try to fit a preload wrench in a cramped space. You couldn't even get to the adjuster collars on the ZX-11's without pulling the wheel. In comparision I guess you can start a fire by rubbing 2 sticks together but it's a real pain in the ass.
   Rather than having a pile of springs I'd say your money would be better invested in new fork valves/custom shim stack or whole cartridge replacements (what's better....20mm or 25mm?). And how about a compression screw that actually does something.

[Ardec2]

whatever mike, go back re read the posts,.. stick to the topic,.  instead of rubbing em together

[mike46]

whatever mike, go back re read the posts,.. stick to the topic,.  instead of rubbing em together

OK. I mispoke and I'll be honest. I admit it and I was wrong in regard to straight wound springs. You are right...the rate doesn't change. Is that straight enough or do you need something else? Now..... about the "NOBODY sells rising rate (progressive) springs for bikes!" part like it was friggin Gospel. Your turn big guy. I did know a guy from Alabama who couldn't admit he was wrong but he was from Alexander City.

[Ardec2]

Hey im wrong im wrong im wrong<>>> BIG mike you got me should I commit suicide?,... BUT NOT WITHIN the topic!   Sure i KNOW you can buy  multi-rate springs, yes I know many bikes come with them especially in the forks,

BUT within the ORIGINAL TOPIC,... Elka vs Penske, etc,... NO-one i repeat NONE- of the builders of these high end shocks are going to reccommend multi-or progressive rate springs,..   I apologise if I hurt yer feelings BUt,.. all I did was present a different opinion to you , (i believe you were the one who said "make sure you get a remote preload adjuster")

I'm sure some people will like it and on some bikes it will speed changes, BUT I stick to my own belief that its a waste of money, even you said that (instead of a pile of springs you can invest the same money in better forks, or something like that)

hey no offense dude chill out, if you write something here and someone comes along who disagrees, don't attack thier every word and try to "out techno-babble" 

I'm just happy to be here and offer Factual technical info based on my years of racing tuning and being a professional sportbike mechanic.   you don't need to reply and I'm outah here!

[gixxerblackbird]

Their both good i think.

[BlueCat!]

Guys...guys...! Next generation shocks will all be done with rubber bands, anyway!

Lift your arse off of the seat, ride with the balls of your feet and your thighs and just throw the thing away!