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Author Topic: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP  (Read 6223 times)

Offline BBP1 Busa

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Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« on: July 30, 2008, 06:16:41 PM »
 Ok guys would like to get the the boards opinion on my winter project.
Might as well start thinking about what to do. 

First off my goal is to get around 200 or so HP I like to see if this can be done with out going to a 1397 kit.
Right now I have a BDE GEN3 pipe, stock intake cam on the exh side, cams set at 106 in 108 exh,
PC3 usb, BMC race filter. Out side of that motor is bone stock on this 01 busa @ 27k on the clock.
What kind of mods will I need to do to reach my goal of 200 HP.  One more bit of info this bike does not See the race track its street use only.     THX for any advice guys! 

  P:
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Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2008, 06:27:29 PM »
everything you have done along with a 30-35 shot of nitrous should do it.

You will have to get high compression pistons, ported head, and bigger cams to even get close. Still likely will not break 200HP unless you are on a happy dyno.

For the amount of money, you might as well go with a 1397....only about $350 more to get the cylinder bored / plated if you get it all at once.

The amount of compression you will need on a stock bore will make it less streetable than a 1397.

How much power do you have now?

John
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Offline BBP1 Busa

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2008, 06:49:43 PM »
Quote from: sportbikeryder on July 30, 2008, 06:27:29 PM
everything you have done along with a 30-35 shot of nitrous should do it.

You will have to get high compression pistons, ported head, and bigger cams to even get close. Still likely will not break 200HP unless you are on a happy dyno.

For the amount of money, you might as well go with a 1397....only about $350 more to get the cylinder bored / plated if you get it all at once.

The amount of compression you will need on a stock bore will make it less streetable than a 1397.

How much power do you have now?

John



 John, I have a tune on this bike so I"m right about 179.2 right now
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Offline Mospeada

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2008, 06:56:11 PM »
Bigger cams
Ported head
Non-o-ring chain
MR9
Less than zero weight oil
clean injectors
Airbox lid
ceramic wheel bearings
Removal of base gasket

And you might get a solid 200 rwhp on a reasonable dyno. 179 rwhp right now sounds spot on. Honestly, just remove the base gasket, keep those injectors and chain cleaned, and that should be 'enough' for seat of the pants. You'll need to get at least a ported head and bigger cams to get that number.

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Offline Mospeada

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2008, 06:57:09 PM »
And I thought you're suppose to set intakes cams at 105/107?
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Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2008, 07:01:38 PM »
If you have 179 now, then you may get really close to 200 if you port the head and put in high compression pistons, but it will still require tuning and some luck.

I think the 179 that you have now is a bit higher than average, likely due to a happy dyno. Is this in SAE Hp?

John
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Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.392, 176.79mph 1/8th mile  6.610, 228.15mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline Gary B

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2008, 07:28:36 PM »
If you want an honest 200 on any dyno, you'll need at least a 1360 kit, with ported head and decent cams. A GOOD set up with stock bore engine will get you close and even over on some dynos, but for sure a big bore is needed.
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Offline BATTMAN

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2008, 08:13:38 PM »
Many of the tuners on here are getting 200hp on a stock bore.  You will need high compression pistons, a good head, and one hell of a tune.  it may be just about the same amount of money to put in a 1397 kit.  The big bore will run cooler and give you more torque.
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Offline moregpz

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2008, 09:38:17 PM »
The first setup I tried on my Busa was the Carpenter 200 hp kit. That kit used stock pistons removed base gasket ported and milled the head and used 385 mega cams Sure it made 198 hp but the low and midrange sucked. A stock busa with a pipe killed me in a rollon contest. So I ordered the 1397 piston kit and installed it and BOOM the whole powerband came back in spades to the tune of 219 hp and 119 tq. So dont spend the money to build it twice go with the 1397 kit you will be happier in the long run. 8)
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Offline BBP1 Busa

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2008, 09:58:54 PM »
Quote from: sportbikeryder on July 30, 2008, 07:01:38 PM
If you have 179 now, then you may get really close to 200 if you port the head and put in high compression pistons, but it will still require tuning and some luck.

I think the 179 that you have now is a bit higher than average, likely due to a happy dyno. Is this in SAE Hp?

John

 Don't quote me because it was done about three years ago,  I think it's SAE HP  not 100% shore.  How ever the bike runs real strong.  The dyno is a Mustang MD-750 Eddy.  I think the Eddy dyno are  measuring  CO...not AFR .

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Offline BBP1 Busa

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2008, 10:03:53 PM »
Quote from: moregpz on July 30, 2008, 09:38:17 PM
The first setup I tried on my Busa was the Carpenter 200 hp kit. That kit used stock pistons removed base gasket ported and milled the head and used 385 mega cams Sure it made 198 hp but the low and midrange sucked. A stock busa with a pipe killed me in a rollon contest. So I ordered the 1397 piston kit and installed it and BOOM the whole powerband came back in spades to the tune of 219 hp and 119 tq. So dont spend the money to build it twice go with the 1397 kit you will be happier in the long run. 8)


 That' very good info to go on... I'm  I going to need a 24v system to make this work right? also is the bike doing to run HOT?

 P:
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Offline moregpz

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2008, 11:16:31 PM »
I use one battery and bike does not run hot! I have never had a starting problem.
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Offline BBP1 Busa

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2008, 08:11:37 AM »
Quote from: moregpz on July 30, 2008, 11:16:31 PM
I use one battery and bike does not run hot! I have never had a starting problem.


 What CR is ideal ?  Also do I remove the base gasket.


 P:
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Offline moregpz

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2008, 08:59:15 AM »
I suggest you talk to Bob Carpenter and work out a package that is ideal for you. :D
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Offline THE ICE MAN

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2008, 09:21:59 AM »
You can do a very conservative 2 mill over at 12.7 compression small cams on pump gas at 200 H.P.


« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 09:24:29 AM by ACE PERFORMANCE / THE ICE MAN »
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Offline BATTMAN

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2008, 09:27:10 AM »
Just do a 1363 or a 1397?  Both of those will get you around 200hp or over and will give you the reliability you are looking for.  Both will start on one battery and both will not overheat.
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Offline crazybill

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2008, 09:43:29 AM »
 I have a head/cam combo that with JE slip fit pistons will net you NEARLY 200 on pump gas and start on one battery .
 Last one I built made over 196hp/112 tq with a muzzy pipe on 93 octane speedway gas .

  A very reputable local builder and good friend of mine put one of these heads on a mild 1397 with 2 intake cams last month and made 210hp and 125 FT LBS OF TORQUE on 93 octane folks !!!!!! now that makes for one phenominally fun street bike for little $  :thumb:

 Feel free to give me a call if you would like to discuss it .


 If you go big ports/big cams to achieve a dyno chart to show your buddies your power curve will be miserable on that little motor .
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 09:45:51 AM by crazybill »
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Offline midnight black man

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2008, 03:03:56 AM »
a little less than a  year ago i built a stock bore with je's,billet webs .395/.378 ported head and ti force sumo with a small box mod and bmc race...

runs with 93 pump all day long ,even at extreme heat (38C)...very good down low and middle with killer high rpms( for a stock bore) and starts every time on the stock single battery...

it made 196 on a superflow dyno (very very strict) with only 50 km on the clocks...

have to go with bills opinion though on the 1397 option...torque is where all the money is... :thumb:



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Offline Steve S

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2008, 09:06:42 AM »
Quote from: crazybill on July 31, 2008, 09:43:29 AM
I have a head/cam combo that with JE slip fit pistons will net you NEARLY 200 on pump gas and start on one battery .
 Last one I built made over 196hp/112 tq with a muzzy pipe on 93 octane speedway gas .

  A very reputable local builder and good friend of mine put one of these heads on a mild 1397 with 2 intake cams last month and made 210hp and 125 FT LBS OF TORQUE on 93 octane folks !!!!!! now that makes for one phenominally fun street bike for little $  :thumb:

 Feel free to give me a call if you would like to discuss it .


 If you go big ports/big cams to achieve a dyno chart to show your buddies your power curve will be miserable on that little motor .

Bill, have you developed a new profile?
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Offline BBP1 Busa

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2008, 10:32:56 AM »
Quote from: crazybill on July 31, 2008, 09:43:29 AM
I have a head/cam combo that with JE slip fit pistons will net you NEARLY 200 on pump gas and start on one battery .
 Last one I built made over 196hp/112 tq with a muzzy pipe on 93 octane speedway gas .

  A very reputable local builder and good friend of mine put one of these heads on a mild 1397 with 2 intake cams last month and made 210hp and 125 FT LBS OF TORQUE on 93 octane folks !!!!!! now that makes for one phenominally fun street bike for little $  :thumb:

 Feel free to give me a call if you would like to discuss it .

 


 If you go big ports/big cams to achieve a dyno chart to show your buddies your power curve will be miserable on that little motor .


 Very good info to go on Bill THX...question for you, better to leave base gasket off, or keep it on.
 What are the pro's & con's  I have concerns with the oil leaking from the base with no gasket.

 P:


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Offline crazybill

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2008, 12:51:41 PM »
If you dont use stock pistons youll have to have a base gasket in there to set the piston-head (squish) distance . it may be a .005 , it may be a .01... thats why ya have to assemble it and measure the piston depth in the block then add head gasket thickness to get your desired squish distance .
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Offline gazza414

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Re: Winter Project, Goal of 200 HP
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2008, 05:19:36 PM »
Setting squish you are always at the mercey of what thicknesses are available from suppliers...which is limited in order to achieve what you believe is the desired distance.

Better , although an added cost is to have the base of the block machined to achieve the "desired distance" working in with available base  and head gaskets.... and remember to understand what the compressed thicknesses are :?
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