200 mph on a stock busa with cheap mods under $1000?

[warezdog]

07 busa, motor untouched (if the motor is untouched I call it stock, I think the majority will agree with that)

TRE $35
USBIII $242
PAIR VALVE $12
SMALL BOX MOD $30 bought here
HMF  4 2 2  $600 bought here
custom map dyno at 171 http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=78904.0 he made 170!

Queston is can it go 200 now OR do I have to get into gears?

If I have to get into gears is there a sweet spot/perfect pair where I won't have to change length of chain?

Oh sure I'd love to go boost but the idea here is to join the 200 club by makin cheap ponies!!

[Mospeada]

Honestly, you got the right idea. You're going to hear a lot of different answers. The bike, all things being good, lots of air in tires and a clean chain/oil will go about mid 190's if you're not 300 lbs and against a headwind. To get to 200 takes a LOT of work because it's so hard to push the bike that extra 5 mph. But there is one more mod that I think will get you there,

Worldwide ceramic wheel bearings. About $400. Not cheap, but they will make a very big difference in acceleration and it will help with your top speed. The level of acceleration that you get with these, when you're already doing 100 mph, is noticeable. The bike, really, just feels that it's not be held back (unbelieveable, I know, when you're on a Busa). The bearings help a lot.

Some others;

K&N/BMC - clean filter, no lube

Ditch the ram air duct metal grates on the front of the bike. Some will say this does nothing, but I swear to god I felt it smooth out just a little bit doing this. You're filter will catch the bug pieces anyway.

Do NOT over tighten the rear axle. Or the front one for that matter.

Some one on here posted a guy that will drill up/out your stock rr rotor to make it look like a wave rotor. Saves weight, and rotating mass. Throw on some Ti rotor bolts while your at it. You only need 6, and that doesn't cost too much....

Adjust TPS to make sure it's correct.

Remove mirrors, bar ends.

Tuck tuck tuck tuck and get your ass far back into the seat. Get as low as possible, bring your elbows in, legs in. Full leather suit, no flappy jeans!

Got a mud flap? Ditch it. Remove rr seat/grab handle, use speed hump (I know I know, obvious).

$17 ($14?!) R1 throttle mod. Don't want you killing your wrist now holding it open.

[gazza414]

Worldwide ceramic wheel bearings. About $400. Not cheap, but they will make a very big difference in acceleration and it will help with your top speed. The level of acceleration that you get with these, when you're already doing 100 mph, is noticeable. The bike, really, just feels that it's not be held back (unbelieveable, I know, when you're on a Busa). The bearings help a lot.

You've tested these back to back with hard data to support this statement I assume ?

[warezdog]

I won't have it all together in time for texas in march but Oct for sure unless there is another sanctioned run within 600 miles of Tampa.
Right after the the next service at 3500-4000 and go synthetic I'll rip it apart.

I forgot to mention the undertail is already in and aluminum sub.

Honestly I'd rather put 400 bucks into pads, lines, and ZG DB screen first, the wave rotors are nice and all but not in my budget for the payoff, heck I passed on a 5" over arm @ $300!! Powder coated black to match the 07!!

I'm a cheap bastard by nature and my goal was to buy a stocker, try to dump under a grand, some sweat, and come out with a 200mph bike, something that would get the average guy like myself that 200 mph cert with a little money and some efforte.

Bonnieville would be nice but at 5000 ft above sea level and you're losing a good percentage of hp, the hat is really cool though!

Oh well, Texas this year doing it budget to prove my theory, and if I can save $3-5K by fall of 09 for a stage 2 then I'll try bonnie.

This board has a ton of good info, for a mid age old fart llike myself and a little hands on, these bikes are truly the modder/enthusiants dream.

[Mospeada]

You've tested these back to back with hard data to support this statement I assume ?

I don't have to. I'm just a customer. And I noticed a difference myself. A difference of acceleration, smoothness, and more importantly, acceleration when you're already at a high rate of speed.

However, feel free to ask any landspeed, AMA, WSB, & MotoGP racer. The very high majority of them all use ceramic wheel bearings for a reason. They work. While you're at it, feel a regular bearing removed from a wheel, and spin it in your hand. Then do the same with the ceramics. Just on that alone, you will feel a difference of how much smoother the ceramics are.

Now, imagine how fast it's spinning when you're doing 100, 150, 200 mph. The ceramics offer far, far less parasitic loss (?) than regular bearings.

Lastly, I don't know who it was, someone on this site, actually DID do a back to back test. He ran about 198 at Bonne, I think. With no other changes except for swapping to ceramic wheel bearings, he went 202 next time out. It was his opinion that the ceramics free'd up the drag from the stock bearings that allowed the bike to push that extra mph. Of course I know the conditions probably changed, but he felt a difference, and he felt it pull harder. AGAIN, I can't remember who posted it, but this was a while ago.

Oh, and one last-last thing. Take a bike, push it around the garage or the street. Then take the same bike, with ceramic wheel bearings, and walk it around. The bike with the ceramics 'feels' like it lost 75 lbs! It just rollls so much easier around.

[Blue]

A local shop here said on the dyno the ceramic bearings are worth 4 hp at peak; pretty good, but on the top end that amounts to almost nothing.

Also, it would be pointless to run a clean, un-oiled filter if you had it dyno-tuned with the filter correctly oiled.

Not to be a ballbreaker, but you really think you can feel seat-of-the-pants improvement by removing the screens on the ram air intakes?   

Optimum gearing for top end has the engine reaching the power peak at top speed.  Properly geared, 170 dyno hp in good atmospheric conditions should get a small rider up to 200 mph.

[Mospeada]

It's very rare for a shop to measure an improvement with the ceramics. Usually, it's very minor, as it doesn't add hp, it just makes what the bikes got more effiicient.

Correct, the filter, with no oil, would also be best to have it dyno'd the same. Oiled fliters when dirty flow less than stock. And since I do so many oil changes, I simply clean the filter, change the oil every 1500-2000 miles, and the t/b's every 5k or so.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me on the ram air ducts being open, that is just my preference and what I felt. Probably does nothing. But, again, to me, it did feel to smooth out. But then again, I also did notice that the 08 Gixxer 6/7's don't have any metal mesh anymore.

Warezdong - I know what you're saying. I think we're all cheap on parts, and we all like to find good deals. If the conditions are right, sure, it can happen. But it's not easy. The last 5 mph to hit 200 is difficult. To give an example (this is grossly approximate), it only takes something like 350 horsepower for a Bugatti to get to 200. It takes the rest of the 700 horsepower to get to 254. Aerodynamics are a bitch.

[fvance]

At Bonneville they figure a busa needs about 200hp to go 200mph, of course it is 4200ft elevation and usually 95-100deg. at speedweek. Where is the best.cheapest place to buy ceramic bearings?

[Mospeada]

http://www.worldwidebearings.com/

Dave at 800-575-3220 

You need to tell him exactly what you have as far as wheels. If you have aftermarket wheels, you'll need to tell him the bearing codes on the side of the bearings (these are measurements). Otherwise, Dave is familiar with Gixxer/Hayabusa rims, BST's, and such.

[gazza414]

warezdog , wise move , spend your $400 bucks on other stuff.

[warezdog]

Now if I could just find out if its enough to make 200 and change or if I need gearing and what combo will get me there but allow daily driving as well!
PS I just ordered the speigler lines for the front, once the pads go I'll go ebc thought it a wise investment for 125 to go dual to the front until I can afford the brembo setup.

I wouldnt mind shelling out for bearings, just that its not on the poor mans build list at the moment!

[ira1031]

Honestly, you got the right idea. You're going to hear a lot of different answers. The bike, all things being good, lots of air in tires and a clean chain/oil will go about mid 190's if you're not 300 lbs and against a headwind. To get to 200 takes a LOT of work because it's so hard to push the bike that extra 5 mph. But there is one more mod that I think will get you there,

Worldwide ceramic wheel bearings. About $400. Not cheap, but they will make a very big difference in acceleration and it will help with your top speed. The level of acceleration that you get with these, when you're already doing 100 mph, is noticeable. The bike, really, just feels that it's not be held back (unbelieveable, I know, when you're on a Busa). The bearings help a lot.

Some others;

K&N/BMC - clean filter, no lube

Ditch the ram air duct metal grates on the front of the bike. Some will say this does nothing, but I swear to god I felt it smooth out just a little bit doing this. You're filter will catch the bug pieces anyway.

Do NOT over tighten the rear axle. Or the front one for that matter.

Some one on here posted a guy that will drill up/out your stock rr rotor to make it look like a wave rotor. Saves weight, and rotating mass. Throw on some Ti rotor bolts while your at it. You only need 6, and that doesn't cost too much....

Adjust TPS to make sure it's correct.

Remove mirrors, bar ends.

Tuck tuck tuck tuck and get your ass far back into the seat. Get as low as possible, bring your elbows in, legs in. Full leather suit, no flappy jeans!

Got a mud flap? Ditch it. Remove rr seat/grab handle, use speed hump (I know I know, obvious).

$17 ($14?!) R1 throttle mod. Don't want you killing your wrist now holding it open.

Good shit dude  i would even say with that "HMF" thing mid 190's are a Lil high  MORE LIKE LOW 190'S, Buddy need's to get a new exhaust an if he is really trying to do a 200 mph pass with what he has now  - for $350 you can can spray a 40 shot an between the juice an everything else - you would do at least 201-202  . i would like to add something else on the mod list an alot of guyz well probably bash me for it , but i run it on my bike ... if you are not drag racing run a 520 chain and sprocket i run a 17/41 an love it good luck maN

[ira1031]

One more thing if your gonna be going out an taking passes , at a sanctioned event something else that makes a Lil improvement remove your rear rotor , an caliper less rotating mass an less weight ....

[Blue]

It's very rare for a shop to measure an improvement with the ceramics. Usually, it's very minor, as it doesn't add hp, it just makes what the bikes got more effiicient.

Rare or not, I know who did it.  And I told you what it was worth...four horsepower.  And it does add horsepower to the rear wheel, what difference does it make whether it is more power created by the engine or more power allowed to get to the ground by better bearings?  Four HP to the ground is four HP to the ground.

[Mospeada]

Well, then it's 4 hp to the ground. Don't have to convince me, I've got 'em! And they are well woth it.

[DaveO]

Fastest I have gone with 170rwhp is 193 at Maxton...could prob goe a bit faster with more room....Stock engine BDE pipe 17/41 gearing...

Dave

[DahMurf]

Fastest I have gone with 170rwhp is 193 at Maxton...could prob goe a bit faster with more room....Stock engine BDE pipe 17/41 gearing...

Dave

Me too thanks to you!

17/42 gearing.

Deb

[Pete]

One of the guys on 200mph asked a very valid question:

If the ceramic bearings are making such a difference by reducing frictional losses, where is all the energy lost by the frictional losses of the less efficient bearings going?

[warezdog]

Fastest I have gone with 170rwhp is 193 at Maxton...could prob goe a bit faster with more room....Stock engine BDE pipe 17/41 gearing...

Dave

Did you have 5th gear timing and a PCIII as well as the airbox mod to do 193? How much more did you think it had if you had another mile?

TX for the input on the gearing still stuck between the 41/42

[DaveO]

Stock airbox...NO tre(00 model)...lowered with airshifter to get myself out of wind.....Maybe high 190's on good day lonnngggg road...Most think a busa will break 200mph easily....NOT. Usually 200rwhp to break 200mph for most people..if they are good.

Dave

[warezdog]

Guess I'lll find out in October but I'll have it dyno'd long before then, probably early april.

When is Maxton's runs? Is it sanctioned? Expensive? Sounds like a short run, where do they set the traps>?

So no PC3 to tweak your fuel mixture either and obviously you had no ignition map problems being an 00 (what I like to call the Glen Gary busa's!)
But you didnt mod the airbox to get more air with that pipe, mind if I ask why?

I see that in no power added class a few have been just breaking the 200 mark, they can't be using nitrous shots in that class can they?

Thanks for info!

[Blue]

One of the guys on 200mph asked a very valid question:

If the ceramic bearings are making such a difference by reducing frictional losses, where is all the energy lost by the frictional losses of the less efficient bearings going?

Good observation, energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only change its form and in this case that 4 hp of extra friction is turned into thermal energy (heat).

Blue

[Pete]

Right, so if the bearings are producing 3Kw of heat, why does the grease not all run out?

[Mospeada]

Well, that's one of the points, ceramic bearings don't produce as much heat. And they're harder than most steel bearings, and they are supposed to last a lot longer than conventional bearings.

Here;

http://www.engineersedge.com/bearing/ceramic_bearings.htm

[warezdog]

wow maybe I should save my pennies for these later on down the road, its like right out of star trek~

"the balls are elevated with a magnetic field and then polished in a plasma stream"

now I know why they're 400 smackers!!