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Author Topic: max horsepower out of a 1397?  (Read 29011 times)

Offline Stocker64

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max horsepower out of a 1397?
« on: March 20, 2008, 08:11:50 AM »
If any of you were trying to build a big 1397 what combo would you use,comp,cams ect. :?:
09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline Spaz Racing

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2008, 10:44:48 AM »
Street or drag only?

Offline Stocker64

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2008, 11:42:19 AM »
drag only spaz,I have one that makes 210 with mrx01.I want more!
09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline Johnnnycheese

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2008, 05:43:45 PM »

93 pump gas STOCK head and Yosh cams
tiforce pipe
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Offline glenn71

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2008, 04:18:24 AM »
that would be very close to the output of a gen2 tuned with a pipe.We have one in australia running 9.43@150mph and 120mph half track just lowered with a pipe untuned and airshifted.Stock length and 737lb total weight.
Gen1 the original and the best
8.76@165.42mph so far

Offline PetriK

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2008, 07:34:42 AM »
If any of you were trying to build a big 1397 what combo would you use,comp,cams ect. :?:

just went through the same process ... As building one.

First ordered wisecos, sent block for rebore and nikasil and was about to get yoshi cams.... But then start to talk with Brock. He explained how there is differences in pistons, how nikasil process is different in some places, how cams may require certain amount of additional spacers if targetting to run an extended ecu. Additionally he talked about the starter pin strengt in big bore high compression engines and gear pins requirements for higher power engines. Now I have two sets of parts to build a couple of engines ...

This reminded me about two key points:
1) The parts used should be a tested combination where the things like squish is known for intended piston/cam/rods/rpm target combo.
2) A highly experienced builder (and a good salesperson) can explain what is needed for a certain power target. Its a sum of details which works well together.

Therefore what ever is chosen, best way is to talk direcly with an experienced builder who can instruct in the parts selection process with in detail answers and installation instructions. In my case that was Brock (www.brockracing.com) because of knowledge and the very good installation instructions that is avail from their internet pages.


Offline Stocker64

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2008, 10:18:53 AM »
 :thumb:
09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline Stocker64

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2008, 11:05:54 AM »
My motor is a relitively mid combo consisting of a custom set of je,s with a modifyed compression height,a stock length carrilos,"small in racing terms" a web 378 intake cam with a stock intake on the exaust side,they are degreed at 106,108.I hand ported the head myself concentrating on velocity,instead of volume.I started by leaving the runner in front of the intake guide,and raiseing the roof slightly trying to create a slight turn into the bowl area,in where i worked the short turn radius and increased the bowl area silghtly.My theary was to speed up the air on either side of the guide in hope to increase velocity.I have seen on many of heads where the guide boss was removed completly up flush with the roof.I am not a head porter by no means,but i have seen alot of aftermarket automotive racing heads ported,and have flowed alot of heads myself.I think that velocity,not volume will make better power through the powerband,especially at mid lift since the valve will travel through mid lift twice,once on the way to peak lift and once to closeing.On the exaust side i did remove the runner and raise the roof slightly trying to create a smooth radius ot of the cylinder head,in theory that if i filled the cylinder with more volume by velocity,i would need a larger port to evacuate to cylinder.I know that there are alot of varibles that contribute to volumitric effencity.My bike is a full weight busa sitting at 64"On my first pass i left with a 1.51 60ft.went 123 in the 8th and 152 out the back,spinning from the 8th out.My datalogger also showed me a interisting thing,small spikes in rpm showing me that my clutch was also slipping!My goal is to put bigger cams with more duration and lift and see how fast a stock stroke motor can go wtih my knowledge.I want to raise the rev limiter and spin it up.I am reaseraching on how to do that now.I AM A RACER THAT WANTS TO GO FAST.I am not a engine builder.so any help towards my goals will be appreciated!
09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline RetiredUSAF

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2008, 09:26:36 PM »
Stocker64,
If I were you, I'd contact Bob Carpenter.  My buddy just got his Busa back from Bob; it's a 1397 with the 'bigger' cams and made 238 / 128 on Bob's dyno.  Bob is a very honest guy.  That 1397 package was advertised at $4800, but he only charged my buddy $4400, and told my buddy it was because he figured out a more efficient way to do it.

In 23 years of fooling with dragbikes, I have to say that is the 1st time I have EVER heard of a builder charging a little less than advertised ...... he could have kept the extra $400.

www.carpenterracing.com

Good luck & Happy Easter.
Mike
Michael Lewis
Glad to be USAF-retired

Offline Competition CNC

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2008, 06:42:46 PM »
Quote
My buddy just got his Busa back from Bob; it's a 1397 with the 'bigger' cams and made 238 / 128 on Bob's dyno.

Wow, thats big numbers for a 1397...    Has it been dynoed on another dyno to qualify those numbers?
Jim

Offline tapout

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2008, 07:53:54 PM »
Quote
My buddy just got his Busa back from Bob; it's a 1397 with the 'bigger' cams and made 238 / 128 on Bob's dyno.

Wow, thats big numbers for a 1397...    Has it been dynoed on another dyno to qualify those numbers?

That would be my bike Mike mentioned. It made 236 not 238 and 128 ft lbs.. It is a stock WB(short chain) Ti Force pipe. It is with oxygenated fuel as well. Don't know how accurate the number is but our other friend just dynoed his bike built by himself another 1397 at a different shop recently and it made 218 on pump gas. So if you take his bike and add oxygenated fuel and take my bike and run pump gas they would probably be within 6-8 hp of each other at most. I believe that my bike has a little bigger cam than his does also. The bike now has an arm +3 and is still in pieces but will be back together in a week or so. I have no clue how fast the bike will run but I have only heard good things about Bob and he was excellent to me and spent  quite a bit of time talking and explaining things at his shop which is extremely hard to do with a shop that had at least 25 bikes being worked on. I think everyone knows dyno numbers differentiate from dyno to dyno, and I built this bike to race so that's what matters to me.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 09:17:37 PM by tapout »

Offline Stocker64

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2008, 08:05:14 PM »
 :thumb: let it rip!
09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline mountainmotor

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2008, 08:40:59 PM »
Quote

That would be my bike Mike mentioned. It made 236 not 238 and 128 ft lbs.. It is a stock WB(short chain) Ti Force pipe. It is with oxygenated fuel as well. Don't know how accurate the number is but our other friend just dynoed his bike built by himself another 1397 at a different shop recently and it made 218 on pump gas. So if you take his bike and add oxygenated fuel and take my bike and run pump gas they would probably be within 6-8 hp of each other at most. I believe that my bike has a little bigger cam than his does also. The bike now has an arm +3 and is still in pieces but will be back together in a week or so. I have no clue how fast the bike will run but I have only heard good things about Bob and he was excellent to me and spent a quite a bit of time talking and explaining things at his shop which is extremely hard to do with a shop that had at least 25 bikes being worked on. I think everyone knows dyno numbers differentiate from dyno to dyno, and I built this bike to race so that's what matters to me.


Good post .

Bob's engines can move on out ------- enjoy your racing season  :thumb:

Offline tapout

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2008, 10:07:50 PM »
I can't wait for a little better weather and to get the bike running. I took a few years off from racing as I bought a house and didn't have as much spending money, but I still have a 92 1100 that is 64"WB that has been 8.81 @ 155 on motor, built by Rick Stetson/Rick Smith. I also had a 96 1100 stroker that Coby Adams built as well that went 9.20 @ 152 @ 60". I had to get my license renewed again last year as it was a year expired and that was my first time in a few years, but I always had the bug in me. Funny thing us dragracers always end up back where we started.  :thumb:
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 10:11:19 PM by tapout »

Offline RetiredUSAF

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2008, 11:48:04 PM »
Lee you're still my DOGG, man ..... sorry if I gave out too much info ..... Bob did you right, so I like to spread good news ..... see you soon.
Michael Lewis
Glad to be USAF-retired

Offline tapout

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2008, 09:35:21 AM »
Lee you're still my DOGG, man ..... sorry if I gave out too much info ..... Bob did you right, so I like to spread good news ..... see you soon.

Mike, I would have told anyone that asked about my experience with Bob Carpenter. The thing about him is he is not arrogant or big headed at all. He is as down to earth as anyone you'll ever meet.

Offline Johnnnycheese

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2008, 10:06:48 AM »
Graph?
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Offline whtrthanu

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2008, 12:43:08 PM »


Heres one i just finished, it has .385 intake, and this is on pump gas, so if we run mrxo1 I bet it would be over 230......The air has to be real good, but it can be done, with the right head on it...

And i have my 92 oil cooled it runs 161mph on motor @ 60".....its been 8.80s
« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 12:45:42 PM by whtrthanu »

Offline Stocker64

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2008, 05:10:19 PM »
has anyone used web 415/395 or 445/415 on a high compression 1397,say compression was around 15 to 1? what ones would you use?
09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline gsxrboy96

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2008, 05:20:12 PM »


Heres one i just finished, it has .385 intake, and this is on pump gas, so if we run mrxo1 I bet it would be over 230......The air has to be real good, but it can be done, with the right head on it...

And i have my 92 oil cooled it runs 161mph on motor @ 60".....its been 8.80s

thats some good numbers on pump gas.

Offline Johnnnycheese

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2008, 07:57:03 PM »
has anyone used web 415/395 or 445/415 on a high compression 1397,say compression was around 15 to 1? what ones would you use?
wouldn't your builder know this???
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Offline gnd111

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2008, 08:32:04 PM »
Gotta love the differences in the dyno numbers.... :lol:

Offline Stocker64

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2008, 08:34:52 PM »
jonny,I am my own builder?I am asking general questions about combs that may work for a high winding 1397 without spending a bunch of money!I have no problem in picking camshafts for my 600ci svo block c-460 headded race motor or my 520ci bluethunder/raised port cylinder head street class motors! I know that you know about strong motor combo's with bike motors,so instead of asking about engine builders,how about shareing some info?how do those cam combo's work?you must know,you are a engine builder!so how about some data?
09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline Competition CNC

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2008, 07:14:15 AM »
I see that 230 hp chart is "actual" hp.   Whats the corrected Hp on that pull?

You have to compare apples to apples. Corrected hp vs actual hp is like comparing a busa to a zx14.
Jim

Offline whtrthanu

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Re: max horsepower out of a 1397?
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2008, 07:39:08 AM »
Like i said Jim, it has to be in good air to make the big numbers, the corrected numbers for this motor were 217hp...that was for this graph, still not bad for a 1397. Dont forget it had a sidewinder, but it also was 66 inches long. The cams were laid back alittle bit more than i usually set them at. It also had an oring chain on it, the pipe had the packing in it still, Its in the head, I am trying something different, and it seems to be working, my .250-.300 lift flow numbers were improved alot, while the peak air flow didnt change at all. tHe head only flowed 255 @.450 in 28". Thats nothing really different compared to whats out there.
The motors that i finished with 2 intake cams will make around 195 or so corrected on pump gas, and around 200 or so actual. With fuel in them and really killer air you can bet they would make 210-215hp. Some days over here are crazy air days. c/f is around .92. You know that bob down by the water has the same air as us, so thats why he gets them big hp numbers........On a big motor you can see 15hp from good air............ :thumb: