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Author Topic: CO2 explosion  (Read 28846 times)

Offline DahMurf

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2008, 10:03:47 AM »
Todd,
Will you have your NOS fill station with you at the track this week end?  I ask because I was wondering if I need a little in my shift bottle, would it be possible to get a little.  (like 1/2 lb in my 1 lb bottle)  My spare is gone so I only have the one thats on the bike.  Don't know if I can get some where today to top it off.  Has 500 left in it.

Bill

Soo...... I guess that means the bike is together & you're coming.... ???? (since you won't answer my questions!  :P  :P  :P  :P Good thing you asked Todd! :rfl: )

Deb

I don't know if I'll be there until I pull into the pits.  Anything can happen, and I am very superstitious. (I will not even sign my name with a red pen)

Bill

OIC & understand, so the fact that we run the 1300 series as our bike numbers must freak you the hell out!!!!  :shock:  8)

So I guess Todd's answer to you is we have a few spare bottles and a little spare N2O/CO2 (not enough for the whole Maxton camp mind you) but, if you should find yourself at maxton and wander by our pit wondering if we could spare a 1/2 lb of N2O it would be safe to say you'd be covered!  :thumb:

Hopefully that's the non-jinx answer!

Ask Todd what happened the last time he made a comment like, hey, we're doing good on time, we're even a little ahead of schedule! I looked at him & said oh great, you just jinxed it! (and I was right!  :bah:  :lol:  :( )

(BTW, what's the red ink thing? I'm not familiar with that?)

Deb

(pssst, Todd, go check the burst disks on those bottles you're thinking of lending Bill!  :shock: )

Offline WildBro

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2008, 10:04:46 AM »
No problem Bill, but if using it for your shifter or boost i'll have my Co2 fill setup with me too(cheap setup to have and alot less expensive in the long run if all you need is shifting and boost control pressure).
We'll tell Deb it's co2 instead of nitrous from her stash, but I'll fill and bring a few 1lber's with n2o before I leave today that I can just loan ya for the weekend in case you're spraying a little cooling or dead set on running n2o.... either way consider you taken care of.
Todd

Thanks Todd,
CO2 is what I would like. I did not know you had that and the nos.

Bill

Offline WildBro

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2008, 10:07:48 AM »
Todd,
Will you have your NOS fill station with you at the track this week end?  I ask because I was wondering if I need a little in my shift bottle, would it be possible to get a little.  (like 1/2 lb in my 1 lb bottle)  My spare is gone so I only have the one thats on the bike.  Don't know if I can get some where today to top it off.  Has 500 left in it.

Bill

Soo...... I guess that means the bike is together & you're coming.... ???? (since you won't answer my questions!  :P  :P  :P  :P Good thing you asked Todd! :rfl: )

Deb

I don't know if I'll be there until I pull into the pits.  Anything can happen, and I am very superstitious. (I will not even sign my name with a red pen)

Bill

OIC & understand, so the fact that we run the 1300 series as our bike numbers must freak you the hell out!!!!  :shock:  8)

So I guess Todd's answer to you is we have a few spare bottles and a little spare N2O/CO2 (not enough for the whole Maxton camp mind you) but, if you should find yourself at maxton and wander by our pit wondering if we could spare a 1/2 lb of N2O it would be safe to say you'd be covered!  :thumb:

Hopefully that's the non-jinx answer!

Ask Todd what happened the last time he made a comment like, hey, we're doing good on time, we're even a little ahead of schedule! I looked at him & said oh great, you just jinxed it! (and I was right!  :bah:  :lol:  :( )

(BTW, what's the red ink thing? I'm not familiar with that?)

Deb

(pssst, Todd, go check the burst disks on those bottles you're thinking of lending Bill!  :shock: )

Sign your sole to the devil with red.

Bill

Offline DahMurf

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2008, 10:08:11 AM »
No problem Bill, but if using it for your shifter or boost i'll have my Co2 fill setup with me too(cheap setup to have and alot less expensive in the long run if all you need is shifting and boost control pressure).
We'll tell Deb it's co2 instead of nitrous from her stash, but I'll fill and bring a few 1lber's with n2o before I leave today that I can just loan ya for the weekend in case you're spraying a little cooling or dead set on running n2o.... either way consider you taken care of.
Todd

Thanks Todd,
CO2 is what I would like. I did not know you had that and the nos.

Bill

We have all the fun stuff in our trailer Bill, you should stop by & visit some time!

Offline DahMurf

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2008, 10:09:34 AM »

I don't know if I'll be there until I pull into the pits.  Anything can happen, and I am very superstitious. (I will not even sign my name with a red pen)

Bill

(BTW, what's the red ink thing? I'm not familiar with that?)

Deb


Sign your sole to the devil with red.

Bill

 :bah:

Offline Ksana

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2008, 10:16:26 AM »
Holy crap!!

I know a mechanic who works on tractor/trailers. Since they use air brakes(compressor, tanks, etc).
He once saw a faulty system. And it went through 2 concrete walls, completely through!
Like a missile.

Glad you weren't in there. And the trailer wasn't mobile :thumb:

Offline Greg

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2008, 05:47:40 AM »
Hope Wayne went to see his doctor afterwards... he's gonna have to get those wounds cleaned out before he gets a nasty infection... glad no one got hurt any worse
Let's Roll!!

Offline MICHAEL MATHEWS

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2008, 08:09:38 AM »
I always fill mine up by weight.On an accurate scale.Never by pressure

Offline SPEED KING

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2008, 12:08:32 PM »
I always fill mine up by weight.On an accurate scale.Never by pressure

I did not know you could weigh CO2
First sidecar over 200mph @ 218+ also the fastest ever record!
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Offline Canadian Mike

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2008, 12:17:06 PM »
the paintball shop that fills mine,also weighs it...

Offline SPEED KING

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2008, 12:22:42 PM »
the paintball shop that fills mine,also weighs it...

Thanks, I thought they just went to whatever pressure the bottle was designed for when filling CO2

J
First sidecar over 200mph @ 218+ also the fastest ever record!
Fastest Open bike over a mile from 2005-2008 @ 259.393
Fastest NAKED record El Mirage @ 240+ come get some!
Fastest bike ever at ELMO 240.197  "NAKED BABY"
Congrats to Richard Assen 260.7

Offline MICHAEL MATHEWS

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2008, 12:26:35 PM »
No,they are supposed to be filled by weight.Thats why the bottles are labeled 9oz. or 20oz.

Offline narider

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2008, 09:56:22 PM »
Co2 like n2o is a liquid and is based on volume which is measured by weight. The weight(or volume) is just the source of the product, the application of the prodcut is determined by pressure. Pressure is determined by a combination of volume and temperature. Temperature can change from pressure release(purging or use) as well as external modifiers like bottle warmers and/or cooling packs(or I use co2 bottles now to cool  over pressure co2 and n2o bottles as it doesn't lower the volume when attempting to lower the pressure). The pressure reduction from purging is not all from lowering the volume, but also(or even moreso imo) from the temperature drop by releasing product (product increase raises temperature and pressure, while product decrease lowers temperature and of course pressure).
 
As many have said, filling is done by volume which is measured by weight. But monitoring those bottles for safe and cosistent use or storage should be done by pressure which can be done by having a capped gauge on hand that you can easily screw on any bottle in question. Solenoids don't like to be outside their pressure range of use for consistency reasons... anymore then the bottles, valves,  lines and rupture discs  like to be over their reccomended pressure ranges for safety reasons.

I had a bottle loaned to Deb and I this weekend from a fellow racer on here that just bought it from another racer on here that has been using it for for some time now.. it will be hitting the dumpster in the morning as it is not round nor straight(fottballed in one directiona dn hourglassed int he other). Weakness to these bottles can be from torching, over filling and heating as well as from over tightening clamping/mounting systems... if they aren't round adn concentric then they aren't worth the risk in my opinion.
 
800-1500psi is nothing to play with as Bill has showed in this thread(probavbly closer to the 2200-2500psi range in his case I'd imagine). If using high pressure equipment of any kind, I reccomend getting at least enough knowledge about it that you don't put your family members, friends, other racers or your self in jeapordy by being around your equipment... no less imnportant then handgun knowledge should something go wrong.


It's easy (at least for me) to get complacent with thsi stuff so I for one am thankful for the reminder caused by this thread and personally thanked Bill this weekend for sharing this here  :thumb:
Todd

Offline WildBro

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2008, 07:47:45 AM »
...and thank you Todd for going over stuff with me.
I will be buying NEW bottles now.  I showed you where I have the bottle mounted on my bike and if anything happened there it would be by by bike and Bill   :(

Bill

Offline DahMurf

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2008, 09:50:09 AM »
...and thank you Todd for going over stuff with me.
I will be buying NEW bottles now.  I showed you where I have the bottle mounted on my bike and if anything happened there it would be by by bike and Bill   :(

Bill

ummm, yeah, that would really do a number on your "package"  :shock:

Thanks for sharing all of this as Todd said. It's made us rethink a few things and not use a potentially bad bottle.
It's just not worth it!

Sorry to hear about the chain this weekend. We were looking forward to seeing some good numbers from you again.
Our hearts just sank when you coasted down.  :(

Deb

Offline Rocketgeezer

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2008, 05:25:38 PM »
:shock: holy shit

Ive never seen this before.
The main thing is, you and your friend are ok.
I have, 15lb nitrous bottle when off in this dudes trunk while the car was parked next to his trailer in the pits, it was a early model Camaro, back of this guys car looked like a M-80 in a mailbox, glad you guys were not hurt badly :!:
The older you get do you notice you start chickening out way before the bike does

Offline smcleod007

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2008, 10:45:58 PM »
Holly Crap! That was one hell of a bang. Jason McVicar told me some one on this forum had a bottle explode but I didn't realise it was you. Glad no one was seriously injured. Hows the engine rebuild going? Give me a call when you have a spare moment and let me know how the MXL logger is working for ya.

Scott McLeod

Offline Prostar

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2008, 06:21:30 PM »
To answer your question about 1800 psi being safe etc.  First of all, there is no such thing as underfilling to achieve 1000 psi.  CO2 is always filled as a liquid,  not as a gas (gas pressure).  1800 psi is the rated working pressure of the bottle.  A bottle at 72F will most likely be around 600 psi.  The burst disk would be 3K.  In order for the bottle to reach that pressure, it would have to be under a great deal of heat and/or be overfilled.

I cannot say why the burst disk failed to relieve the pressure.  Some disks replaced are the wrong rating.  Others are double disked by owners (modern bottles should utilize a unified burst disk assembly verses stand alone disks.   Bottles are not to be filled by psi but by liquid volume.  You must know the empty weight of the bottle and only add the ounces the bottle is rated for.  If a bottle is filled beyond it's ounce rating it can build to a dangerous psi, very quickly.  The burst disk should release but the gas can escape so fast that it actually freezes shut the burst disk relief hole and pressure continues to build until the bottle blows.

If you need a certain psi for your shifter, you will need to install a regulator for CO2.

I would like to know if the burst disk has been inspected, what it's rating is and what the manufacturer has concluded?  This is a very big issue and must be addressed to a conclusion ASAP.

Offline narider

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2008, 09:34:34 AM »
Prostar(and after some searching we realized you're with Prostar paintball and not Prostar racing - just clarifying for others that may have thought the same thing). I'd like to ask a couple questions....

Why would these 1800psi rated bottles have 3000psi burst discs protecting them?
I understand the 1800psi might be well underrated and the bottle might be good to 3000psi + or -, but a 3k disc seems excessive imo for a bottle rated and most likely hydro tested at less then the 3kpsi pressure.

Do you, or do you know who (specifically) will hdro-statically test these bottles for us?

And if it's you that does it, what rate of pressure are they tested to, what kind of turn around time is there, and how much does it cost roughly?

Appreciate your input here and thanks for any info you can help out with... the paintball industry is for sure using more high pressure vessels like this on a regualr basis then any other industry I can think of.
Todd

Offline whtrthanu

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2008, 10:23:55 AM »
That shit is crazy...........you really dont know how lucky you guys were with that.......do you know who the manufacturer of the bottle was?
i only use the bottles from catalina, i havent had any type of problems yet.....I had a relief valve fail along time ago, but the minute the bottle was opened the line exploded, the line was rated for 3000 psi, i would guess your bottle pressure was above that, I think the bottles are strong enough to hold double the stamped psi according to DOT. i bet that shit was over 3000 psi......Look at how close he was to getting killed, the fuckin piece he took out almost hit the main artery in his neck, he would have bled to death in about a minute or 2...........When its hot out i dont leave shit in the trailer, to risky its like a frigin over in there

Offline WildBro

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2008, 07:31:03 PM »
Just got off the phone with my buddy Wayne.  Remember this all happened to us on May 4th.

He told me he is still pulling wood out of his face.  Well what he said was he had a zit on his cheek, popped it and a peace of wood came out.  He also told me he thinks he has a good size peace still in his neck and is waiting for it to work its way to the surface.  He pulled a good size peace out of his eye brow last week.

Just thought I'd give a little update.

Bill

Offline Coryonbusa

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2008, 07:48:43 PM »
Just got off the phone with my buddy Wayne.  Remember this all happened to us on May 4th.

He told me he is still pulling wood out of his face.  Well what he said was he had a zit on his cheek, popped it and a peace of wood came out.  He also told me he thinks he has a good size peace still in his neck and is waiting for it to work its way to the surface.  He pulled a good size peace out of his eye brow last week.

Just thought I'd give a little update.

Bill

Eeww!  :puke:

Offline nickelcityracing

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2008, 08:20:01 PM »
remind me to never come down and visit you Bill...you are too rough on your buddies..LOL   
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Offline DahMurf

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2008, 08:33:14 PM »
Yikes, I guess that was really an infection and not a zit! Geeze I hope the rest of the splinters make their way out before they get infected!
So I guess this means y'all passed on the ER visit & clean up?

 :shock:

Deb

Offline SRADkneedragger

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Re: CO2 explosion
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2008, 07:00:59 AM »
 :shock: Holy crap! how hot was it that day?
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