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Author Topic: Busa Stage 3 port testing....  (Read 14103 times)

Offline mountainmotor

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2008, 05:38:40 PM »

  Sonic choke is typically why you will see an engine "table top" on a HP graph instead of peaking and declining.



If your using " typically " in terms of sonic choke being the culprit for the larger percent of times it's seen vs  the other  problems that can and does cause the HP to flatline , and not port choke as the one and only possible cause , then i can agree with it .  I cannot agree with port choke being the only cause for a HP graph to flatline .

Would you care to elaborate on your meaning of the above quote ?




Offline Competition CNC

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2008, 07:34:44 AM »
Typically, as in most often but not always.
Jim

Offline gazza414

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2008, 08:15:23 PM »
What's a few differential equations between friends.
How many porters have heard of Navier-Stokes?
Great reading.....

I'd say very few ..but for engineers

and also it would appear another sport has taken this on....... we have moved away from towing sharks and dolphins in tanks in order to understand surface dynamics to CFD modelling.

just reading this journal and couldn't resist a pic to post here.

1 Fast Hayabusa N/A 217.443mph so far

Offline mike46

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2008, 09:47:04 PM »
Well yea, the pitot tube is actually measuring pressure when its hooked to a manometer.  So yea.....


Jim, isn't velocity simply the square root of measured pressure times a constant?

That'sa Bernoulli's equation.
You are correct.
More information than velocity or pressure is needed to quantify a turbulent flow field.
Knowing the vorticity of an unsteady flow is important too.
It's a fluid construct.....full of flux. You need some #'s to start but....... I'm a dope....what do I know.
" The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessing, the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries"  Winston Churchill. Obviously Obama is no student of history.

Offline whtrthanu

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2008, 09:54:15 PM »
post some rough flow data, lets see what that thing looks like on paper :D

Offline Competition CNC

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2008, 11:14:11 AM »
post some rough flow data, lets see what that thing looks like on paper :D

Geezz, I'm reluctant to post anymore static flow sheets on here. When I have in the past every other post becomes "flow bench numbers don't mean anything"  etc. and the thread becomes an argument about the importance of flow bench numbers.


So I've started to post more of the other parameters that we also use to design ports.  And now it seems some people dint like that either because they dint understand what the influence is on a port. " Dr Emmett Brown talk"

I suppose this is why 99.9% of all cylinder head companies just post the basic static flow members.  The public has been trained over the last 20+ years to look at these static flow numbers because thats all the info they ever get to see on a cylinder head besides volumes.
Several years ago the internet started to buzz with talk that "flow bench numbers dint mean shit".  At one time thats all you ever heard people talk about.

The truth is that they do mean something.  But, they are one piece of the pie, and a large piece at that, and to discount or minimize their importance is a mistake.

Even dyno numbers are disguarded now a days.  I even saw a post where someone ran a really good 1/4 mile mph and several people called it B/S.

So lets wait and see what the real world testing says. 

 
Jim

Offline Billy D

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2008, 11:25:06 AM »
Come on, just post something guy. My comments were only out of fun because a huge portion of the people on this site do not understand how deep you were talking. I personally understand a little about it and I know a damn good head porter who explains anything to me that I don't understand  :wink:

Show some flow charts, dyno numbers, or even performace at a track or top speed event (I am only talk MPH at the drag strip because ET doesn't mean much because that can be rider and set up). You have been on this site a while singing and dancing about CNC porting and your work. If my memory serves me correct you have only once said anything about performance out of your shop and it was talking about bad track conditions then other people jumped on talking about who said this and that. My point is for the normal guy, let's see what you are doing here for the customer should they want to do business with you.

Offline Competition CNC

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2008, 04:07:45 PM »
Quote
If my memory serves me correct you have only once said anything about performance out of your shop and it was talking about bad track conditions then other people jumped on talking about who said this and that.


Na, wasnt me.    But anyway, I'll have some hp and speed numbers after maxton.
Jim

Offline gazza414

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2008, 07:39:34 PM »
Jim , was it last weekends Maxton event you were referring too ? if so I'd be interested in how the bike went went. thx
1 Fast Hayabusa N/A 217.443mph so far

Offline DarkFalcon

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2008, 07:05:52 AM »
If it's the bike I think it is, it went 199 and then on another pass it went 200 something. Obviously, they are fighting some technical and/or set-up issues.

Offline Spaz Racing

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2008, 08:42:20 AM »
Y2KZX12R, hows that head working out on that 1507cc from ohio?

Offline Competition CNC

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2008, 02:06:06 PM »
Yes Garry, it was last weekends event.  We had a blast. and it was HOT as hell.

The bike with the stage 3 head is a 1607 making 248 SAE hp.  At maxton it went 200.xxx.

Ryan had some shifter issues with the first runs and foot shifted it on the 200 mph run.  You guys have to remember that both Karl and Ryan are BIG guys at like 6'3" or 6'4" or something.  The bike is making power but its not easy for big guys to get big speeds.

It would have been nice to get Chad or Zack on it for a pass but they were booked up on other bikes.

Spaz, are you referring to the 1507 that Quantum (Bryan) built for Sunny with our stage 2 head?  I was under the impression you talk to sunny on a regular basis.  You should ask him.

But from the feed back I'm getting, its hard to launch because of the large amount of torque.  They are working out some suspension and weight issues because its spinning the tire.

Give Bryan a call at Quantum a call. He can fill you in better, I'm sure you still have his phone number.
Jim

Offline osti33

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2008, 02:49:15 PM »
If it's the bike I think it is, it went 199 and then on another pass it went 200 something. Obviously, they are fighting some technical and/or set-up issues.

Yep. DF you are correct. It's my bike and I am still having some technical issues. Unfortunately I never was able to get one real clean pass this weekend. I had some air shifter problems and some possible ignition/ECU problems. It was a hurry and put it together at the last minute type of thing just so I could get to the track. It was tuned pig rich just to be safe because I had very little time to fine tune it on the dyno. With more time to try some different things like lobe centers and fine tune the air fuel a little I am sure that there is more power to be found. I will also be bumping the compression up a bit. It is pump gas friendly right now. It wont be when I am done.  :lol:

I think by the time we get it all sorted out it will be competitive with some of the faster all motor bikes out at Maxton. With a small rider of course. I don't think it will haul my 6'5" 220 LB butt fast enough.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 07:11:19 PM by osti33 »
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Offline Steve S

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2008, 03:38:26 PM »
 :thumb: :thumb: 248 SAE is a very nice number from a 1607.

Offline DaveO

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2008, 06:59:02 PM »
Jim,

It was good to meet you!! Hope you had a good/hot time at Maxton!!! Sept will be cooler....

Dave
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Offline SLEEPERBUSA

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2008, 10:04:32 PM »
Jim,
you gonna make it to Texas in Oct?
208.6mph/ Texas Mile. 10/24/2010

Offline Competition CNC

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #41 on: July 02, 2008, 06:23:43 AM »
Jim,

It was good to meet you!! Hope you had a good/hot time at Maxton!!! Sept will be cooler....

Dave

Same here Dave, I wish we had more time to chat, I have some questions about the ECU's in these bikes I bet you could answer. I'll have to give you a call.


Chris, Yea, I'm going to try and get down there in Oct.
Jim

Offline DaveO

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #42 on: July 02, 2008, 07:45:30 AM »
Jim/Otis,

FWIW breaking 200mph on an NA bike is a huge accomplishment!!! Many never do....There is sooo much to the tuning/setup BESIDES the HP needed to break that barrier....

Remember MOST TURBOS that show up at Maxton first few times dont break 200mph......

Give me a call about the ECU's...best is 7-9 ur time....508-802-0425

Dave
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Offline SLEEPERBUSA

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Re: Busa Stage 3 port testing....
« Reply #43 on: July 02, 2008, 11:06:35 PM »
Dave, I hope you'll make it back soon.
I'm real sorry that I didn't get to meet you when you were here!
208.6mph/ Texas Mile. 10/24/2010