Author Topic: mild web cams, do i REALLY need a $400 set of springs w/ titanium retainers? (Read 11895 times) Tweet

uzimon · « **on:** January 26, 2009, 08:04:33 PM »

i ordered the cams today, and they tried to sell me these.
is this really necessary?
stock bore, just a tsukigi.
also, what velocity stack to get good midrange with my combo?
thanks
craig

knecum · « **Reply #1 on:** January 26, 2009, 09:07:05 PM »

no just $110 springs

uzimon · « **Reply #2 on:** January 26, 2009, 09:15:48 PM »

Quote from: knecum on January 26, 2009, 09:07:05 PM

no just $110 springs

where do i get the correct units?
i looked at webs site and the springs are indeed $425

thanks
craig

knecum · « **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2009, 08:36:22 AM »

Quote from: uzimon on January 26, 2009, 09:15:48 PM

Quote from: knecum on January 26, 2009, 09:07:05 PM
no just $110 springs
where do i get the correct units?
i looked at webs site and the springs are indeed $425

u have a pm
thanks
craig

Money Making Busa · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2009, 09:32:59 AM »

Quote from: uzimon on January 26, 2009, 09:15:48 PM

Quote from: knecum on January 26, 2009, 09:07:05 PM
no just $110 springs
where do i get the correct units?
i looked at webs site and the springs are indeed $425

thanks
craig

Try Schnitz Racing ! heres the link !

http://www.schnitzracingstore.com/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=306059&showprevnext=1

uzimon · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2009, 09:48:37 AM »

Quote from: knecum on January 27, 2009, 08:36:22 AM

Quote from: uzimon on January 26, 2009, 09:15:48 PM
Quote from: knecum on January 26, 2009, 09:07:05 PM
no just $110 springs
where do i get the correct units?
i looked at webs site and the springs are indeed $425

u have a pm
thanks
craig

excellant, thanks guys

SPEED KING · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2009, 12:16:46 PM »

Who charges $ 425.00 for just springs..APE makes great springs and Carpenter does as well.

John

uzimon · « **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2009, 04:52:09 PM »

Quote from: SPEED KING on January 27, 2009, 12:16:46 PM

Who charges $ 425.00 for just springs..APE makes great springs and Carpenter does as well.

John

web

knecum · « **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2009, 06:20:27 AM »

Quote from: SPEED KING on January 27, 2009, 12:16:46 PM

Who charges $ 425.00 for just springs..APE makes great springs and Carpenter does as well.

John

they don't make them they just sell them

SPEED KING · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2009, 12:13:10 PM »

Quote from: knecum on January 28, 2009, 06:20:27 AM

Quote from: SPEED KING on January 27, 2009, 12:16:46 PM
Who charges $ 425.00 for just springs..APE makes great springs and Carpenter does as well.

John
they don't make them they just sell them

Steve,

Technically nor does Bob or Jay..

knecum · « **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2009, 03:50:08 PM »

Quote from: SPEED KING on January 28, 2009, 12:13:10 PM

Quote from: knecum on January 28, 2009, 06:20:27 AM
Quote from: SPEED KING on January 27, 2009, 12:16:46 PM
Who charges $ 425.00 for just springs..APE makes great springs and Carpenter does as well.

John
they don't make them they just sell them

Steve,

Technically nor does Bob or Jay..

thats what i'm saying...(they) Bob,APE ETC

SPEED KING · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2009, 04:13:47 PM »

Steve,

Do the Drop in cams even require HD springs in an aspirated engine? Being "drop in" I would think not..what do you think from your installs..?

J

knecum · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2009, 05:20:11 PM »

Quote from: SPEED KING on January 28, 2009, 04:13:47 PM

Steve,

Do the Drop in cams even require HD springs in an aspirated engine? Being "drop in" I would think not..what do you think from your installs..?

J

No they don't, drop in is just that drop in. I double checked valve lash on yosh's and there spot on ! and cam timing ..right on the money !!

SPEED KING · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2009, 05:32:22 PM »

Yosh cams are about 105-105 right?

What is better a set of drop in Webs or a set of drop in Yosh..for the most overall power not just mid-range.

J

knecum · « **Reply #14 on:** January 29, 2009, 06:12:09 AM »

Quote from: SPEED KING on January 28, 2009, 05:32:22 PM

Yosh cams are about 105-105 right?

What is better a set of drop in Webs or a set of drop in Yosh..for the most overall power not just mid-range.

J

yes 105, i don't use web, power is 8-12 hp

Jay · « **Reply #15 on:** January 29, 2009, 11:58:45 PM »

Busa Valve Springs

Springs and retainers are about $360.

horndog · « **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2009, 04:11:00 AM »

There is a guy here in Australia who is now worn out his 3rd exhaust webcam on a 1397. I am wondering if it is because the heavy duty springs are putting too much pressure on the buckets and lobes. He was always running good motul oil.

Has anyone heard of this happening before?

gnd111 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 25, 2009, 05:12:26 PM »

Not sure bu i think Kibblewhite makes all of them for the vendors...

knecum · « **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2009, 09:16:02 PM »

Quote from: gnd111 on February 25, 2009, 05:12:26 PM

Not sure bu i think Kibblewhite makes all of them for the vendors...

I know that they don't make Bobs, i know who makes his ..

peanuthead · « **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2009, 10:12:54 PM »

Quote from: horndog on February 25, 2009, 04:11:00 AM

There is a guy here in Australia who is now worn out his 3rd exhaust webcam on a 1397. I am wondering if it is because the heavy duty springs are putting too much pressure on the buckets and lobes. He was always running good motul oil.

Has anyone heard of this happening before?

no i never heard of that before but you would figure that the aluminum cam holder would wear down first before the cam and buckets.i have ape 65 lbs springs on my 1397 for two years and had no prob.but i did put in the ti retainers thou

Jay · « **Reply #20 on:** February 26, 2009, 05:08:17 PM »

Quote from: gnd111 on February 25, 2009, 05:12:26 PM

Not sure bu i think Kibblewhite makes all of them for the vendors...

Not hardly. They only make their own.

Jay

dodobird · « **Reply #21 on:** February 28, 2009, 08:59:19 PM »

the yosh stage ones are 102/105 and all the carp heads Iv seen have been kibble springs and megacycle cams stamped for him,,with smaller base circle dia. and the spring change is to cure coil bind above .385 ,and the higher rate springs wear out very fast on street bikes with the big .425 type cams,,you get broken springs droped valves etc,,

cajunboys · « **Reply #22 on:** February 28, 2009, 10:45:42 PM »

What about carp heavy duty springs with 385 cams on a street/ race bike??? Is this reliable & longivity???

Blackcloud · « **Reply #23 on:** March 01, 2009, 12:44:20 AM »

so how much spring can you run with stock retainers

Jay · « **Reply #24 on:** March 01, 2009, 09:32:17 PM »

I assume you mean "how much cam?" You can run a 378 for sure. If you run a 395, the retainer may contact the seals.

Blackcloud · « **Reply #25 on:** March 01, 2009, 09:39:47 PM »

no I meant spring. with a turbo motor and stock cams, can i go up to 50/60# springs and still use stock retainers? or am I really taking a big chance of pulling the keepers through the stock aluminum

Jay · « **Reply #26 on:** March 02, 2009, 04:22:46 PM »

Probably if you keep an eye on them. Valve tip usually sits .050" below the retainer. If that measurement gets to be more, change them out.

The road race teams with the 1000s just change them out after each race.

mountainmotor · « **Reply #27 on:** March 02, 2009, 05:26:36 PM »

Quote from: Blackcloud on March 01, 2009, 09:39:47 PM

no I meant spring. with a turbo motor and stock cams, can i go up to 50/60# springs and still use stock retainers? or am I really taking a big chance of pulling the keepers through the stock aluminum

You'll be OK on a Busa because the open pressure with the stock cams will be down a little bit from less lift ,vs a hi-lift cam with more radical rates of lift. Always replace the collets with new during a re-fresh and look over the valve where the collets fit . Naturally some will depend on time and wear of the spring tops and valves your starting with if used.

The 1st gen Busa generates wear on the exhaust side valve retainers a little earlier than the intake side especially where the shim fits ,but not limited to. Probably because of harmonics or other thats not necessary to stray into a topic about . Just keep an eye on them during maintenance .

To give an idea how long spring tops last in the road race world , Honda HRC recommended changing their CBR1000RR tops and collets and springs at 15000 kilometers of racing . Thats w/o differentiating between sprints or endurance .

gnd111 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 03, 2009, 06:56:24 PM »

Quote from: Jay on February 26, 2009, 05:08:17 PM

Quote from: gnd111 on February 25, 2009, 05:12:26 PM
Not sure bu i think Kibblewhite makes all of them for the vendors...

Not hardly. They only make their own.

Jay

Not what i have been told by other Vendors but was not positive...

tyboogie · « **Reply #29 on:** March 04, 2009, 07:49:14 PM »

Quote from: mountainmotor on March 02, 2009, 05:26:36 PM

Quote from: Blackcloud on March 01, 2009, 09:39:47 PM
no I meant spring. with a turbo motor and stock cams, can i go up to 50/60# springs and still use stock retainers? or am I really taking a big chance of pulling the keepers through the stock aluminum

You'll be OK on a Busa because the open pressure with the stock cams will be down a little bit from less lift ,vs a hi-lift cam with more radical rates of lift. Always replace the collets with new during a re-fresh and look over the valve where the collets fit . Naturally some will depend on time and wear of the spring tops and valves your starting with if used.

The 1st gen Busa generates wear on the exhaust side valve retainers a little earlier than the intake side especially where the shim fits ,but not limited to. Probably because of harmonics or other thats not necessary to stray into a topic about . Just keep an eye on them during maintenance .

To give an idea how long spring tops last in the road race world , Honda HRC recommended changing their CBR1000RR tops and collets and springs at 15000 kilometers of racing . Thats w/o differentiating between sprints or endurance .

What's a collet ?

Busa Quick · « **Reply #30 on:** March 04, 2009, 07:56:31 PM »

The two halves of the collar "fitted to the center of a spring retainer" which fits around the stem of a valve and traps the spring against the cylinder head are known as split collets.

tyboogie · « **Reply #31 on:** March 05, 2009, 07:40:37 PM »

Quote from: Busa Quick on March 04, 2009, 07:56:31 PM

The two halves of the collar "fitted to the center of a spring retainer" which fits around the stem of a valve and traps the spring against the cylinder head are known as split collets.

Thank you

Jay · « **Reply #32 on:** March 06, 2009, 11:41:13 PM »

Quote from: Busa Quick on March 04, 2009, 07:56:31 PM

The two halves of the collar "fitted to the center of a spring retainer" which fits around the stem of a valve and traps the spring against the cylinder head are known as split collets.

Keepers??

Blackcloud · « **Reply #33 on:** March 07, 2009, 12:16:55 AM »

Hey Jay, I just ordered a set of your 65# springs.

fvance · « **Reply #34 on:** March 07, 2009, 09:51:30 AM »

Jay, thats what I always called them.

mountainmotor · « **Reply #35 on:** March 07, 2009, 02:05:56 PM »

I've called them valve locks , keepers and collets .

Suzuki calls them a - Cotter - and using that can help speed up the OEM phone order if the part number is not in hand , depending who's on the other end of the line .

Busa Quick · « **Reply #36 on:** March 09, 2009, 03:31:29 PM »

Quote from: Jay on March 06, 2009, 11:41:13 PM

Quote from: Busa Quick on March 04, 2009, 07:56:31 PM

The two halves of the collar "fitted to the center of a spring retainer" which fits around the stem of a valve and traps the spring against the cylinder head are known as split collets.

Keepers??

I have called them keepers in the past too. I knew what a collet was but, I went to Wikipedia to make sure I could get a good definition that he could understand. Collets are also used in pulleys to help them mate with shafts.

Mark

quizesilver · « **Reply #37 on:** March 10, 2009, 12:56:09 AM »

dear broz
i saw the link on this
http://www.schnitzracingstore.com/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=1021910&showprevnext=1

70-752 EXH Cam .378/.330 Exhaust Cam Only $366.00
any idea what is this??
meaning it is a exhaust cam regrind to the profile??
or ?

i am lost.

advise is greatly appreciated. thanks

does tis cam need the spring also ?

APE Dustin · « **Reply #38 on:** March 25, 2009, 12:25:58 PM »

That cam is just a billet exhaust cam that has a lift of .330. With that cam you shouldn't need different springs either.

Jay · « **Reply #39 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:15:14 PM »

Quote from: gnd111 on March 03, 2009, 06:56:24 PM

Quote from: Jay on February 26, 2009, 05:08:17 PM
Quote from: gnd111 on February 25, 2009, 05:12:26 PM
Not sure bu i think Kibblewhite makes all of them for the vendors...

Not hardly. They only make their own.

Jay

Not what i have been told by other Vendors but was not positive...

You would know right away if you had one of ours and one of theirs sitting on the table in front of you. They are not even close.

FASBUS · « **Reply #40 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:44:51 PM »

Quote from: rrtbusa on February 28, 2009, 10:45:42 PM

What about carp heavy duty springs with 385 cams on a street/ race bike??? Is this reliable & longivity???

..........YES

busadt · « **Reply #41 on:** March 28, 2009, 04:53:41 PM »

so with web 395 web cams can i run just the hd springs or do i have to do the titanium retainers n all?

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Author Topic: mild web cams, do i REALLY need a $400 set of springs w/ titanium retainers? (Read 11895 times) Tweet