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Author Topic: TRE~PRO question !  (Read 11234 times)

Offline smithabusa

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Re: TRE~PRO question !
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2009, 10:59:02 AM »
Usps priority has a new small flat rate box that is 13 bucks to aussie I think.
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Offline 1Quikshifter

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Re: TRE~PRO question !
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2009, 11:01:17 AM »

OK ! I dig
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Offline 1Quikshifter

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Re: TRE~PRO question !
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2009, 11:13:38 AM »

Did the Gen 1 have an timing retarder in 1-2-3-4 ?

Just trying to work out why my old 04 model used to tear my shoulders out of their sockets at 8,000 rpm, and the 09' is not thrusting like it should.   
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Offline smithabusa

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Re: TRE~PRO question !
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2009, 11:29:08 AM »
Gen 1's yes they have reduced timing, at low RPM, low throttle input (wide open throttle at high rpm stuff its all the same).

So if you want more timing at low RPM low throttle you would need to either do TRE (downside is it messes up gear based fueling) or reflash the ECU for just 5th gear timing across all gears, 02-07s this is no problem to reflash and remove 6th gear governor as well, 08-09 busas are being worked on and very soon you will be able to do this with reflashing.

my highgain mod just lifts the 6th gear governor.

A TRE is not going to make your bike faster in the 1/4, some say it feels better part throttle response due to increased timing at low rpm etc, but by forcing 5th gear ram air compensation fuel tables to the first couple of gears will just make the bike richer.
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Offline 1Quikshifter

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Re: TRE~PRO question !
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2009, 12:18:54 PM »

 Very informative,  I'm all straight now !

 Thanx again Greg !  :D 
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Offline PetriK

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Re: TRE~PRO question !
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2009, 05:02:02 AM »
Quote
A TRE is an ignition "timing retard eliminator" - the stock ignition maps on most Suzuki's include built in ignition retard to help control wheelies, wheelspin and power in 1-4th gears, and top speed in 6th gear. 5th gear is the only "open" gear. The TRE is a resistor that fools the ECU into thinking it is in 5th gear all the time. That is the basic concept. From there, folks have made some other modifications to expand on the abilities of the modules.... Smart TRE's, X-TRE, etc...

I would say this is a street legend that is being repeated. The fact is that the timing is affected only with <10% throttle openings so must be a heck of a bike to make wheelies with only a cruising throttle opening.

From my opinion the timing is altered for cruising area to control the emissions, make exhaust gasses burn better at the area where also pair is on and excess fuel is put throught the engine. The alledged performance gains may relate to keeping the fuelling same for all gears in the dyno - in real life with ram air compensation I would be rather suspicious about any real gains, rather the opposite - particularly as it has been documented that some riders have experienced worse ET:s on track after installing a TRE.

Another fact is that by fooling the ECU to consider the bike being on 5th gear you also let the engine rev higher when 6th gear is on. But as the peak power with stock and moderately tuned engines is often coming at 9000rpm it would be more beneficial to have a properly geared than TREd bike for LSR top speed runs. (For a quartermile something is horribly wrong if you hit 6th gear limiter before the trap.)

Sorry for my biased and a bit black and white opinion on this (based on facts and personal experience), I would say that better acronym would be: The Retarded Enginesystem when talking about a TRE.

The only TRE I would ever consider is something that allows my engine to run N,1,2,3,4,5,5 - but because of having unrestricted many gen1 ECUs and having an ability to unrestrict gen2 ECU just dont need one anyway and therefore dare to say my opinion. I hope being this straight forward does not offend anyone.

Offline 1Quikshifter

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Re: TRE~PRO question !
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2009, 11:08:00 AM »

All taken on board, thanx for your insight, reviewing everything I think I'm gunna wait to you blokes fine tune the manipulation (re flashing) of the standard 09' ECU !Thanx again Petrik :D
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Offline PetriK

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Re: TRE~PRO question !
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2009, 04:23:20 AM »
I think we are already around there where tre is not anymore needed even for gen2 busas ?

http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=138989.0


Offline FloydV

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Re: TRE~PRO question !
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2009, 11:51:26 AM »
Quote
A TRE is an ignition "timing retard eliminator" - the stock ignition maps on most Suzuki's include built in ignition retard to help control wheelies, wheelspin and power in 1-4th gears, and top speed in 6th gear. 5th gear is the only "open" gear. The TRE is a resistor that fools the ECU into thinking it is in 5th gear all the time. That is the basic concept. From there, folks have made some other modifications to expand on the abilities of the modules.... Smart TRE's, X-TRE, etc...

I would say this is a street legend that is being repeated. The fact is that the timing is affected only with <10% throttle openings so must be a heck of a bike to make wheelies with only a cruising throttle opening.

From my opinion the timing is altered for cruising area to control the emissions, make exhaust gasses burn better at the area where also pair is on and excess fuel is put throught the engine. The alledged performance gains may relate to keeping the fuelling same for all gears in the dyno - in real life with ram air compensation I would be rather suspicious about any real gains, rather the opposite - particularly as it has been documented that some riders have experienced worse ET:s on track after installing a TRE.

Another fact is that by fooling the ECU to consider the bike being on 5th gear you also let the engine rev higher when 6th gear is on. But as the peak power with stock and moderately tuned engines is often coming at 9000rpm it would be more beneficial to have a properly geared than TREd bike for LSR top speed runs. (For a quartermile something is horribly wrong if you hit 6th gear limiter before the trap.)

Sorry for my biased and a bit black and white opinion on this (based on facts and personal experience), I would say that better acronym would be: The Retarded Enginesystem when talking about a TRE.

The only TRE I would ever consider is something that allows my engine to run N,1,2,3,4,5,5 - but because of having unrestricted many gen1 ECUs and having an ability to unrestrict gen2 ECU just dont need one anyway and therefore dare to say my opinion. I hope being this straight forward does not offend anyone.


I didn't realize there was a TRE that would do 1, N, 2, 3, 4, 5, as stock and make 6th look like 5.  Any brands?
What I would like to know, is it possible to hack the ECU so that a tuner can change the fuel mixture to better match whatever the bike needs. For instance, I'm at 5,000 feet, and my bike is too rich.
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Offline smithabusa

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Re: TRE~PRO question !
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2009, 12:12:53 PM »
My derestrictor does the 1n23455 mod, its not a tre, it disables 6th gear so you don't hit the 186 mph governor www.boostbysmith.com/highgain.html

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Offline FloydV

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Re: TRE~PRO question !
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2009, 12:19:04 PM »
My derestrictor does the 1n23455 mod, its not a tre, it disables 6th gear so you don't hit the 186 mph governor www.boostbysmith.com/highgain.html



Wanted to buy it but no credit card input.  Will have to Paypal infor from the wife.
The mystical trend of our time, which shows itself particularly in the rampant growth of the so-called Theosophy and Spiritualism, is for me no more than a symptom of weakness and confusion.

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Offline smithabusa

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Re: TRE~PRO question !
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2009, 12:22:53 PM »
Yes there is over on the left side of screen it says to pay with credit card click here :)
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Offline FloydV

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Re: TRE~PRO question !
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2009, 02:14:33 PM »
Yes there is over on the left side of screen it says to pay with credit card click here :)

Will look again. Getting old I guess.
The mystical trend of our time, which shows itself particularly in the rampant growth of the so-called Theosophy and Spiritualism, is for me no more than a symptom of weakness and confusion.

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Offline gjp1300

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Re: TRE~PRO question !
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2009, 08:57:29 AM »
My derestrictor does the 1n23455 mod, its not a tre, it disables 6th gear so you don't hit the 186 mph governor www.boostbysmith.com/highgain.

       I purchased one and it works like a charm,just clocked 190mph on my GPS the other day so I know it works,I have to run her up to redline in 6th to see what top speed is,def goin for the ECU flash though,looks like I'll be selling it if anybody is interested.