2000 Busa randomly cutting out and dying on me. (UPDATE)

[COLDSTONE1300]

I have a 2000 year model hayabusa with around 34,500 miles on it. Aftermarket goodies are PC III USB (with akro map from website), akropoviac 4 into 1 exhaust, block off plates, K&N air filter, pazzo levers, Shift star mod, new yuasa battery, woodcraft stator cover, PMR billet front sprocket cover, stiffer clutch springs, headlight kill switch, gregs euro wiring harness with V1 radar detector hooked up to front outlet.

Put the pipe, pc III, plates, stator cover on last summer and she ran fine. Rides this year so far have been mostly in 49 - 55 degree weather (its michigan). First ride was ok but on my 2nd ride after about 2 hours of riding i was in the city leaving a light, popped her into 2nd gear and as i get to about 4000rpm she falls flat on her face like my throttle cables got cut. Let off gas and got back on and it was fine until a bit later when it happend again at about 4k. Maintained throttle position this time and after 3 seconds it power surges back on. Engine never shut off though. Just acted like i closed the throttle. Thought maybe it was old stabil laced gas i didn't run out completely or bike didn't like the 89 sunoco i usually ran so i tried 93 next time. All was fine until about 2 hours into my ride and when trying to pass a truck after coming out of a city, she does it again at about 5000rpm. Engine stays on. Total throttle loss while i was in the oncoming lane trying to pass this truck  . Backed off and after having enough room i got on the gas hard a few times mixing it up with slow roll ons and WOT. Didn't happen again for the rest of the ride home. Took it out the next day and got gas from a different sunoco and pretty much wrung the bikes neck for almost 90minutes. Didn't sputter once however the temp outside was 42 degrees when i started out and dropped to 39 when i got home. Few days ago it was a high of almost 60 and about 2 hours into my ride, 100 miles on the tripmeter, the same thing starts happening and gets worse. It's between 4 and 6000 rpm when it bucks and stutters if I roll on the throttle easy. Try to go WOT and she falls flat on her face right after 4 k but surges back on after 2 or 3 seconds. However it started stuttering and backfiring here and there in the lower rpms as i got closer to home and Shut itself off in my driveway as i was unlocking the gate! Went back to start it and while i had lights and starter working fine, the bike would not fire. Shut it off, opened the gate, sat it upright off the kickstand and she starts up. Drove it into the yard and shut her off and restarted it about 3 times with no issues.


By now I'm thinking maybe its the PC III USB so i unplug it today and ride the shit out of it. Found a backroad and went back and forth about 4 times at WOT in the first 4 gears on Stock ECU. Didn't stutter once. Rode a few other places where i blasted on it here and there and when coming back into the city, once again around traffic and heat, once again about 2 hours into my ride with about 90 miles on the trip meter it happens again. Sputters and surges with a little backfiring like it's running out of gas (fuel gauge is always over a quarter above the empty mark whenever this happened). Got it home and saw the temp gauge was at the halfway mark (52 degrees today so it takes a bit to get it hot) so I decided to let it idle until the fan kicked on. Was sitting on the bike, no kickstand down, and she sputters and dies like she's out of gas. Try to fire it again and nothing. Put it on the kickstand and wait about a minute and then i'm able to restart it. Idles fine for about 20 seconds and then starts to sputter for about 5 seconds until it shut off again. Wouldn't restart until a few minutes later but i shut it off instead of waiting for the fan to kick on or see if it happens again.

So i figure it's not the Power Commander III USB. A buddy of mine who had a gixxer 750 suggested it's the fuel pump since his bike was doing roughly the same thing until he swapped out his pump. Thing is shouldn't it happen in alot less time then 2 hours of moderate to hard running? If it was the fuel filter it should be quite frequent yes? Could it be a sensor I got going bad? Yes i did think my side stand sensor was going bad some years ago but that was my pazzo lever setting that wasn't closing fully so the safety switch wouldn't let the starter engage. So i don't think that's a issue. Never did override the TOS like i planned but i can hear the Fuel pump turn on whenever i turn the key on so i don't believe it could be the TOS either. Didn't see no Codes pop up on the dash display either whenever this happened.

Now once again this happens with the fuel gauge well away from the empty mark and does not Happen when hitting any bump in the road at all (pavement was always smooth whenever it did happen actually). And it always seems to be about 2 hours or 80 - 100 miles into my ride. Any help or suggestions on what to look for or test procudures to try would be appreciated. Supposed to rain and probably snow the next 5-6 days though. Not to sure about starting the bike and letting it sit and idle for 20 minutes until it gets hot to see if it stutters out again as i've heard that's not a good thing to do to a bike. Liquid cooled or not. Thanks again all. 

[Rocketgeezer]

Did you do the clip test to ck codes? if you did and it showed no codes then its possable you have a bad fuel pump, you will have to patch in a fuel pres gauge to your fuel system in the rail or pump feed line, then when the bike is warmed enough to start screwing up and wont start when you first turn thr key on the fuel pre should comeup to 43LBS + or - if it does not than its possable electircal problem 

[ZX-ALAN]

My 2000 was doing the same thing a couple years ago, it was DEFINETLY the PCIIIusb.  It would die and restart going down the road a freeway speeds....I once counted that it died 12 times in 2 miles at a constant speed.  If not the PCIII, I would suspect the 2000 fuel pump, particularly the screens on the inlet of the pump and the injectors maybe getting clogged.....Check the inlet of the pump.

[COLDSTONE1300]

Thanks again guys. There was no codes that popped up on the dash but will attempt to give the clip test a try (imagine i can search and find a how to for that on here). This is gonna be kinda new to me so anyone recommend a ideal fuel pressure guage to check it out? Also should i plug the PCIII USB back in or leave it on the stock ECU for now while testing? Bike seemed to run pretty smooth without the PCIII USB but i don't want to risk fucking anything else up.

Also I figured i should mention this. I owned this bike since i bought it new in march of 2000 and yes she has a medicore 34,500ish on the clock. Akro pipe and mods i listed all went on middle of last year. Thing is all the years i've owned the bike i pretty much only used sunoco 89 with a occasional 90 rating fillup to help clean her out (or so I been told that helps). Have always filled the tank to the top, poured stabil in it and let it run for about 5 minutes whenever i winterized it.  However I have never ran any kind of injector cleaner in the bike. Ever. Just curious if I should give injector cleaner a try and if so, which one? Remember some post on here that mentioned some stuff that starts with a "T" that ya get from sherwin williams or some paint shop. Put 4 oz of the stuff per fill up for about 10 fill ups and your good. I've seen mention of sea foam but...i don't know about that stuff.  Redline's Complete Fuel System Cleaner seems to get good mention on here. Suggestions?

Edit: Found the thread about that stuff. Toluene its called http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=2068.0

[WICKSBUSA]

Had a similar problem on my 00. It turned out to be the rad. temp switch which ties into the ignition. When warm on the dyno studdered and back fired. I got so pissed iI held it while on nthe dyno and it quit. I checked the fuses and it triped the ign fuse. Then I got the wiring diagram and discovered that the only thing that was heat sensitive on the fuse was the rad temp switch for the fan. Replaced that and all was fixed.

[GSXRTURBO1]

I think ZXALAN has it right.

If you've never used FI cleaner, take off your airbox and shine a light down the throttle bodies of the #1 and #4 cylinders while holding the throttle wide open (engine off!). I'd be willing to bet your intake valves are covered in deposits! I don't think this is what's causing your problems, but I do think you'll use FI cleaner once in awhile after seeing how bad your intake valves look 

[COLDSTONE1300]

I think ZXALAN has it right.

If you've never used FI cleaner, take off your airbox and shine a light down the throttle bodies of the #1 and #4 cylinders while holding the throttle wide open (engine off!). I'd be willing to bet your intake valves are covered in deposits! I don't think this is what's causing your problems, but I do think you'll use FI cleaner once in awhile after seeing how bad your intake valves look 

If they're NOT covered in deposits then something is really gonna seem wrong lol! Any suggestions on WHAT FI cleaner to try though? Redline or Toluene?

Wick brought up a thought though. As i mentioned, last i had her out she sputtered out on me with the temp gauge at the halfway mark. Both times it happened before the fan kicked on (fan has come on before yes, only this time she sputtered out before it could). Raditor resovior bottle has the yellow sludge on the bottom and sides. Coolant is going to be changed soon and Radiator could use a good flushing probably.

Read on another post about someone who was having similar issues but it was whenever his busa's fuel gauge went below the halfway mark. Past couple of times this happened the fuel gauge was past the halfway mark but atleast a quarters away from empty. Besides taking it out to run it then bringing it back to see if she'll idle fine till the fan kicks on (heat sensor test), if it passes that test I think i'll try riding it till gas tank is at halfway mark, top it off, and see if it starts stuttering again at the 100 mile mark or at all. Got snow today and will be cold until the weekend (high of 50 atleast).

Having trouble with search on in finding out how to do the "Clip trick" to get her in dealer mode let along a good Fuel pressure gauge to hook up to the fuel system to check and see if it is the pump. Ideal thing to have if i do have to start swapping/rebuilding pumps just WHAT does everyone here use i need to know.

[Mospeada]

Redline's Complete Fuel System Cleaner - Pour the entire bottle in the tank, fill up, don't refill till on fumes. The stuff is freagin' awesome.

While you're at it, carb cleaner and a tootbrush. It's more than time that you scrub the throttle bodies out as best you can.

You got a 2000. Have you ever check/cleaned the fuel pump filter and removed the injector screens? Mandatory on 99/00's.

[1Quikshifter]

I wouldn't think it would be a fuel thing, wouldn't hurt to clean any shit outta there anyway !
Coz you said its not till it heats up, I'd say its something electrical thats breaking down when it warms up .... that radiator temp switch seems like a good tip ! 

[COLDSTONE1300]

Redline's Complete Fuel System Cleaner - Pour the entire bottle in the tank, fill up, don't refill till on fumes. The stuff is freagin' awesome.

While you're at it, carb cleaner and a tootbrush. It's more than time that you scrub the throttle bodies out as best you can.

You got a 2000. Have you ever check/cleaned the fuel pump filter and removed the injector screens? Mandatory on 99/00's.

Thank mon! Thing is it's debatable if she'll stay running till shes "on fumes" since the wackiness starts past the halfway mark on the fuel gauge. Will give it a shot though.

MY buddy who's a mechanic did maintainance work on my bike years ago and checked the filter and screens then. Said they were fine and obviously were since she ran perfect.  Thing is thats years ago so they will be getting checked again reguardless if they're the culprit or not. 

[tampated]

Clean all the fuel screens (pump and injectors)...if that doesn't fix the problem replace the fuel pump.   

[ZX-ALAN]

I couldn't imagine any kind of fuel injection cleaner actually removing the deposits from the intake valves, I was rebuilding a head last night and cleaning all the valves with a wire wheel on a bench grinder and it took some serious work to get them clean, I don't think an additive is gonna get that shit off.  So far I have about 8 hrs in cleaning this head.  I am not convinced FI cleaner will even clean injectors, maybe the tips but not the screens, you have to take them out and clean em well, same thing for the screen in the pump, take it apart, pull out the white insulator screen and clean it, the inlet and the fuel pressure regulator.

[Mospeada]

I couldn't imagine any kind of fuel injection cleaner actually removing the deposits from the intake valves, I was rebuilding a head last night and cleaning all the valves with a wire wheel on a bench grinder and it took some serious work to get them clean, I don't think an additive is gonna get that shit off.  So far I have about 8 hrs in cleaning this head.  I am not convinced FI cleaner will even clean injectors, maybe the tips but not the screens, you have to take them out and clean em well, same thing for the screen in the pump, take it apart, pull out the white insulator screen and clean it, the inlet and the fuel pressure regulator.

Okay. Humor yourself.

You still got that 1000, right? That you ride on the street? Go to Pep Boys or where ever, pick up a bottle of Redline's Complete Fuel System Cleaner, dump the whole bottle in the tank, fill up and ride 'till on fumes. Then fill it up and have at it!

I'm willing to bet, that your mileage improves, your power across the board improves, and your bike 'smooths' out. It'll only cost ya around $7. And not just on a dyno, I'm talking about you noticing on the butt dyno. If you don't notice anything at all, you're out $7.

But I've been using the stuff for years, and it still amazes me the difference on 1 bottle after logging another 10k miles on a bike.

Just....try it.

[ZX-ALAN]

I couldn't imagine any kind of fuel injection cleaner actually removing the deposits from the intake valves, I was rebuilding a head last night and cleaning all the valves with a wire wheel on a bench grinder and it took some serious work to get them clean, I don't think an additive is gonna get that shit off.  So far I have about 8 hrs in cleaning this head.  I am not convinced FI cleaner will even clean injectors, maybe the tips but not the screens, you have to take them out and clean em well, same thing for the screen in the pump, take it apart, pull out the white insulator screen and clean it, the inlet and the fuel pressure regulator.

Okay. Humor yourself.

You still got that 1000, right? That you ride on the street? Go to Pep Boys or where ever, pick up a bottle of Redline's Complete Fuel System Cleaner, dump the whole bottle in the tank, fill up and ride 'till on fumes. Then fill it up and have at it!

I'm willing to bet, that your mileage improves, your power across the board improves, and your bike 'smooths' out. It'll only cost ya around $7. And not just on a dyno, I'm talking about you noticing on the butt dyno. If you don't notice anything at all, you're out $7.

But I've been using the stuff for years, and it still amazes me the difference on 1 bottle after logging another 10k miles on a bike.

Just....try it.

OK, I will.  Here is what I will do.  In a few weeks after I get the busa running again, I will pull the airbox off the 1000 and open the TBs, I will take pics of the intake valves through the ports showing all the gunk on them(I know they have some, but not as much as I used to get on the busa).  Then I will run some Redline Fi cleaner through it for a couple tanks to check it out.  After the 2 tanks, I'll pull the air box back off and take pics of the valves and see what they are doing.  Hopefully they will be cleaned up, I would love to have a remedy for the gunky valves/exhaust ports etc.... I know if any of those FI cleaners will work, it will be Redline.

I know with the turbo, the intake valves on the busa stay clean as a whistle now...   The exhaust valves, not so much.

[Nakedbusa]

Some of the early busas had issues with the pump wires being pinched in the cap. Mine had it and when I did the screens etc at 50,000 miles they were pinched but showed no signs of being a problem.

This was mine

[Nakedbusa]

And Seafoam has been the best cleaner for the fuel system I have tried and I have tried alot of them over the years.

[COLDSTONE1300]

Well i figured it was overdue to post an update though i do want to get more rides in for more evauluation (lots of rain up here). First off i want to thank everyone here for their help. Found the redline stuff at murphys discount and dumped the whole bottle in prior to fillup a few days after my last post. Ran the bike till she was about on fumes and only once did it bog on me (once again at the quarter away from low fuel mark). Ran it a few more times after that but not down to the "e" mark. She ran flawless and i just couldn't get it out of my mind a few other posts listing similar probs with water in the tank being the culprit. All this bucking and surging started within the first couple of rides after its winters nap. Got worse and worse lower it got on fuel level and seemed to get a bit better after that hot day where it really bucked and surged (listed this all in previous post here). Heatsoaked the hell out of the bike too bringing it home to let it idle until the fan kicked on a few times and it didn't cut out. So i don't think it's a sensor and if it was the pump this should be happeneing all the time reguardless of fuel level. After reading about water in the tank issues, I decided to give sea foam a shot before taking things apart to drain the tank or get to the pump.

Grabbed a can and poured about 4-5 oz in the tank proir to fill up at gas station. Gave the bike a good side to side shaking (get things mixed in there best i could),  Started her and rode back home and let it idle a bit in the driveway. Gunned the motor a few times and saw faint puffs of brown smoke puff out but no incredible smoke show like some videos show. After one fan activation and no cutting out I took her out for a run. Ran the tank to e and filled it with 89 sunoco and parked her for the night. Next day and few more fillups and about 300 miles later of cruising, hard running, 90-100mph highway cruising, and even killing a few f-bodies from a light, she hasn't sputtered once (Thank GOD!) and i can definatly feel an improvment on low end power being more responsive, stronger idle, and smoother power deilvery. Mind you i haven't gotten to the pump yet but will as the filter probably could use changing since this seems to have been a case of water in the tank.

I always used fresh STABIL all these winters when i put the busa away. Poured it into a full tank and let her run for a few minutes to get into the system. Thing is we had one of the coldest winters in almost a decade this year and i've heard accounts of stabil not always being up to snuff when things get that cold. I will probably use sea foam from now on when winterizing. Hopefully this is the end of the issue and will use 1/3 of sea foam probably every 3000 miles to help keep things clean (though i'm not pouring any of it into the crankcase. That may work on cars but bike motors share room with clutchpacks so this could be a bad idea). Now i'm one of the last guys to believe or buy into "snake oils" or wishy washy treatments but this stuff has been around since the 40's and, unlike snake oil additives, seems to work well. Give some of this stuff a shot sometime if you haven't.

MAybe if Zx-alan is still up for the redline experiment he can try before and after shots with using the redline stuff first and then sea foam. Findings could be interesting. 

[GenII Busa]

Mind you i haven't gotten to the pump yet but will as the filter probably could use changing since this seems to have been a case of water in the tank.

Best thing to do if water in the fuel system is suspected is to run a tank of 10% ethyl alcohol fuel blend (ie, ARCO or similar).  The alcohol in the fuel will absorb all water in the system.

BTW - Redline fuel system cleaner works well to clean up intake valves.  Saw it first hand on a Busa with gunked up cyl 1 & 4 intake valves - saw before & after with noticeable improvements.  Probably some old threads floating around about it all - ZXALAN has been here long enough to have heard about the miracles of Redline fuel system cleaner I would think  .  I usually put ~2 oz in every tank for 'maintenance cleaning' purposes.

[GSXRN99]

FI cleaner is just a bandaid. eventually your going to have to clean the fuel pump and injector screens.

[RUFAZZ]

I had a very similar problem, but mine also lost power.  I pulled the injectors and had them sync'd and balanced at MPS and man it was amazing one of my injectors was 90% clogged.  My bike ran better than new, I had always used injector cleaner and the "better" gasolines and they didnt make a diff