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Author Topic: spray bar design  (Read 17592 times)

Offline leathalbusa

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2010, 07:19:22 PM »
Ok I see what both you are saying.

But a couple of things to think about. I am going to use 4 NOS fogger heads which have directional discharge this then would provide some stability in the nos delivery and with the physics of things . with all the air passing past the nozzle would give it a small venturie effect making a lower pressure point at the nozzle tip. I figure this will affect the flow rate of the Nos. effectively increasing it.Also emptying the lines faster at fuel cut off preventing a longer hit. But only by a percentage as it will also be affected by temp, and bottle pressure.  Now I am not going to wade into a vacuum and pressure contest. As it's like a ford vs chevy argument. But check out youtube "gale Banks" he explains it perfectly for muscle car magazine.
Yes you will feel a vacuum at the cylinder and the plunger design of a piston works But the maximum you can increase the cylinder pressure of a normally aspirated engine is 14.7 psi. any more than that and you have to run a form of forced induction. (Forgive the rambling) If it doesn't make any sense just think I am "down under" so all the blood rushes to my head being upside down.

After some research I figured that 4 jets are better as you can regulate the delivery to all the cylinders and get a better hit. plus then i am running the solenoid closer to the jets and keeping the gas lines shorter to get it there faster.

Either way you have to split the gas either before or after the jet. I felt that before the jet as you have a fairly constant gas pressure and a larger volume of gas flow to split.

Plus being safe by adding more fuel.....

Just my thoughts... And I have been known to be wrong, so my X-wife says.
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Offline wildphil69

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2010, 12:36:10 AM »
Amen!
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Offline Gixx1525R

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2010, 07:55:13 PM »
Really? How do you explain a cumbustion engine that doesnt use Pistons?
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Offline wildphil69

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2010, 09:23:42 PM »
A wankel or rotary engine works the same way...when the rotor is tight against the case is where the hole for the intake is and it moves itself away from the case and sucks air in that way
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Nitrous is like a hot chick with STD'S...You know you wanna hit it but your just not sure of the consequences.

Offline wildphil69

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2010, 02:24:00 PM »
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Offline Stocker64

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2010, 08:26:50 PM »
nevermind..
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 06:41:20 PM by Stocker64 »
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09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline Stocker64

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2010, 08:30:25 PM »
same here..
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 06:41:53 PM by Stocker64 »
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09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline Stocker64

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2010, 08:43:44 PM »
Quote from: wildphil69 on January 08, 2010, 03:40:14 PM
Your wrong about the air just falling into the cyl as you pretty mych said...when the valve opens and the puston moves down it works like a vag pump and pulls the air in...if it just fell in there would be no such thing as vacuum between the throttle blades and the intake valve...like i said run WHATEVER system you want but i was just giving my opinion there is flow sorry i said vacuum


yep....
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 06:42:30 PM by Stocker64 »
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09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline Stocker64

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2010, 08:48:11 PM »
"here too"
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 06:43:13 PM by Stocker64 »
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09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2010, 08:53:23 PM »
Not sure it it has anything to do with spraybars, but if anyone ever takes an ase or other engine mechanic certification test and sees the a question along the lines of "What causes air to enter the cylinder of an internal combustion engine?", one of the choices will be vaccum in the cylinder and one will be atmospheric pressure.

Thre real answer is "screw you, I want to go drink a beer, but if you want to get credit for the correct answer, you will need to choose....










Atmospheric Pressure  :thumb:
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Offline Stocker64

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2010, 08:59:00 PM »
Quote from: sportbikeryder on January 19, 2010, 08:53:23 PM
Not sure it it has anything to do with spraybars, but if anyone ever takes an ase or other engine mechanic certification test and sees the a question along the lines of "What causes air to enter the cylinder of an internal combustion engine?", one of the choices will be vaccum in the cylinder and one will be atmospheric pressure.

Thre real answer is "screw you, I want to go drink a beer, but if you want to get credit for the correct answer, you will need to choose....


 :hys: :hys: :hys:







Atmospheric Pressure  :thumb:
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09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline Stocker64

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2010, 08:59:53 PM »
 :hys: :hys: :hys:... :thumb:
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09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline Stocker64

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2010, 09:01:42 PM »
i love the internet.... :hys:
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09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline Stocker64

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2010, 09:25:05 PM »
 :hys: :hys:
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 06:44:53 PM by Stocker64 »
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09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline wildphil69

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2010, 10:41:18 PM »
Granted you cannot fill a cyl with more that 14.7 lbs without forced induction but without the piston Sucking or Drawing air in it will not be able to run. Maybe idle but when you crank it up to 12k the motor would not get enough air. If a motor did not draw air into it the how would a carburetor work? it wouldnt.
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Nitrous is like a hot chick with STD'S...You know you wanna hit it but your just not sure of the consequences.

Offline Stocker64

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2010, 10:46:38 PM »
atmospheric pressure.........
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09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline Stocker64

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2010, 10:50:17 PM »
damm...here too..
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 06:44:16 PM by Stocker64 »
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09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline Gixx1525R

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2010, 06:42:22 AM »
14.7 at Sea level is............................. aww hell. Never mind. :duh: :duh: :duh:
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Offline PetriK

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Re: spray bar design
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2010, 04:03:08 PM »
Quote from: wildphil69 on January 19, 2010, 10:41:18 PM
Granted you cannot fill a cyl with more that 14.7 lbs without forced induction but without the piston Sucking or Drawing air in it will not be able to run. Maybe idle but when you crank it up to 12k the motor would not get enough air. If a motor did not draw air into it the how would a carburetor work? it wouldnt.

Maybe there is more to this...

My current all motor seems to be running around 17 lbs air pressure into the cylinders. Thats where the velocity from intake tuning comes in, or was it drinking beer what I read - same thing, fastest way in to make it fully filled works either way.

Then the charge quality is determined by the exhaust side, even if my cylinders are at 17lbs of air pressure the cylinder may contain 20% of already burned fuel - a bit like old beer that waits it way out. If exhaust tuned lenght is not correct the power will still suck.

In my case the exhaust header is 20", about 4" shorter than stock and intake is about 1" shorter than stock, but thats all not generic, rather dependendent on cam, displacement and piston speed.

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