Suggestions on rebuilding my 1397

[C_Henry]

I'm gonna refresh my 1397(12:1)  over the winter and was wondering what else we could do to improve it. I'm new at this motor building thing , so I'm starting with a Carpenter head and cams .
Any suggestions    

[bl13r]

you might as well make it a 1441 going to cost the same 

[C_Henry]

you might as well make it a 1441 going to cost the same 

Yea, I"m still looking into that Bo . We saw a guy doing some 5.80's Fri night in Hunt . Thats fast enough for me . 
The trick now is finding someone repitable , and that fits my budget . 

[bl13r]

man i no the deal on that budget

[sportbikeryder]

you might as well make it a 1441 going to cost the same 

How does making it a 1441 cost the same as freshening a motor? Need to buy another crank and a spacer to make it a 1441.

[tyboogie]

you might as well make it a 1441 going to cost the same 

How does making it a 1441 cost the same as freshening a motor? Need to buy another crank and a spacer to make it a 1441.

by the time he sells his tock crank it will be maybe an extra 350 give or take

[C_Henry]

you might as well make it a 1441 going to cost the same 

How does making it a 1441 cost the same as freshening a motor? Need to buy another crank and a spacer to make it a 1441.

I think he's talking about having my crank lightend and balanced .

[bl13r]

you might as well make it a 1441 going to cost the same 

How does making it a 1441 cost the same as freshening a motor? Need to buy another crank and a spacer to make it a 1441.

by the time he sells his tock crank it will be maybe an extra 350 give or take

c-henry nows what i was talking about some people need to stay out of other peoples business unless you no what is going on 

[genarr3]

you might as well make it a 1441 going to cost the same 

How does making it a 1441 cost the same as freshening a motor? Need to buy another crank and a spacer to make it a 1441.

I'm still wondering the same thing. Lighten and balance costs $225, you're not getting an 08 crank and spacer plate for anywhere near that.

[C_Henry]

Anyway, looks as though I'm gonna end up doin this rebuild myself to save $ . New bearings,rings, head&cams . How hard could this be for the first time ?
I'm screwed ! 

[bl13r]

not hard for you me i would be screwed.

[C_Henry]

not hard for you me i would be screwed.

  Yea, right ! 

[valley poi]

Anyway, looks as though I'm gonna end up doin this rebuild myself to save $ . New bearings,rings, head&cams . How hard could this be for the first time ?
I'm screwed ! 

Aloha its not hard at all you just need to follow the manual step by step for the basic rebuild and you should get by just fine. Its the little things that the manual doesn't tell you that you will need to figure out like adjusting cam sprockets ,piston depth and a few other things but if you cant figure something out I'm quite sure most people on here will be more than willing to help. Good luck.

[sportbikeryder]

you might as well make it a 1441 going to cost the same 

How does making it a 1441 cost the same as freshening a motor? Need to buy another crank and a spacer to make it a 1441.

by the time he sells his tock crank it will be maybe an extra 350 give or take

c-henry nows what i was talking about some people need to stay out of other peoples business unless you no what is going on 

Wow...settle down. You're the one that posted shit to a public forum that doesn't make any sense.

[sportbikeryder]

Anyway, looks as though I'm gonna end up doin this rebuild myself to save $ . New bearings,rings, head&cams . How hard could this be for the first time ?
I'm screwed ! 

If you are on a tight budget, go with a hand ported head with springs rather than the Carpenter head. Unless you are trying to build an all out race motor, the carpenter head will not give you any more horsepower than an $800 job (Even if you are building an all out race motor...)
Look around and you can find used cams fairly easily, most already with adjustable sprockets. If you are still street riding, don't go too big on the cams.

John

[sportbikeryder]

Anyway, looks as though I'm gonna end up doin this rebuild myself to save $ . New bearings,rings, head&cams . How hard could this be for the first time ?
I'm screwed ! 

If you are on a tight budget, go with a hand ported head with springs rather than the Carpenter head. Unless you are trying to build an all out race motor, the carpenter head will not give you any more horsepower than an $800 job (Even if you are building an all out race motor...)
Look around and you can find used cams fairly easily, most already with adjustable sprockets. If you are still street riding, don't go too big on the cams. Lightening and balancing can be shelved as well.

John

[C_Henry]

Anyway, looks as though I'm gonna end up doin this rebuild myself to save $ . New bearings,rings, head&cams . How hard could this be for the first time ?
I'm screwed ! 

Aloha its not hard at all you just need to follow the manual step by step for the basic rebuild and you should get by just fine. Its the little things that the manual doesn't tell you that you will need to figure out like adjusting cam sprockets ,piston depth and a few other things but if you cant figure something out I'm quite sure most people on here will be more than willing to help. Good luck.

Yea, me and my wife have taken it all apart and reassembled it . Just have never been inside the motor before. It's the fear of the unknown i guess . The suprises are always what make it fun . 
Bob was gonna help us out on getting the cams degreed . By the way , what is piston depth ? I don't remember reading anything about that in tha manual. Lol !

Again all together now , I'm screwed !

[C_Henry]

Anyway, looks as though I'm gonna end up doin this rebuild myself to save $ . New bearings,rings, head&cams . How hard could this be for the first time ?
I'm screwed ! 

If you are on a tight budget, go with a hand ported head with springs rather than the Carpenter head. Unless you are trying to build an all out race motor, the carpenter head will not give you any more horsepower than an $800 job (Even if you are building an all out race motor...)
Look around and you can find used cams fairly easily, most already with adjustable sprockets. If you are still street riding, don't go too big on the cams.

John

We were thinking about the Carpenter set up 1 cause he guarantees 40hp , and cause he said he'ld help me out trying to get the cams degreed in . Yes, it's just a track bike, no street at all .
I could save a good bit doin another set up , but I'ld like to get as much hp as i can for the $ What other combo could give me bout 40hp ?
And I have been look'n for used cams. The only ones I've seen were only a couple of dollars cheaper than new ones . 

[sportbikeryder]

Anyway, looks as though I'm gonna end up doin this rebuild myself to save $ . New bearings,rings, head&cams . How hard could this be for the first time ?
I'm screwed ! 

If you are on a tight budget, go with a hand ported head with springs rather than the Carpenter head. Unless you are trying to build an all out race motor, the carpenter head will not give you any more horsepower than an $800 job (Even if you are building an all out race motor...)
Look around and you can find used cams fairly easily, most already with adjustable sprockets. If you are still street riding, don't go too big on the cams.

John

We were thinking about the Carpenter set up 1 cause he guarantees 40hp , and cause he said he'ld help me out trying to get the cams degreed in . Yes, it's just a track bike, no street at all .
I could save a good bit doin another set up , but I'ld like to get as much hp as i can for the $ What other combo could give me bout 40hp ?
And I have been look'n for used cams. The only ones I've seen were only a couple of dollars cheaper than new ones . 

Guarenteeing horsepower is relative. Many of the Carpenter motors are advertised at 215 or 220 hp and we have seen a few of them at 202 and 203,  on other dynos. If you go with teh more radical setup, we have seen as high as 214 with the giant cams that he supplies.

If you already have a 1397, have you had it on a dyno? What did it make. Getting another 40 HP from a 1397 by putting head and cams in it is quite an astonishing feat.   

John

[C_Henry]

Anyway, looks as though I'm gonna end up doin this rebuild myself to save $ . New bearings,rings, head&cams . How hard could this be for the first time ?
I'm screwed ! 

If you are on a tight budget, go with a hand ported head with springs rather than the Carpenter head. Unless you are trying to build an all out race motor, the carpenter head will not give you any more horsepower than an $800 job (Even if you are building an all out race motor...)
Look around and you can find used cams fairly easily, most already with adjustable sprockets. If you are still street riding, don't go too big on the cams.

John

We were thinking about the Carpenter set up 1 cause he guarantees 40hp , and cause he said he'ld help me out trying to get the cams degreed in . Yes, it's just a track bike, no street at all .
I could save a good bit doin another set up , but I'ld like to get as much hp as i can for the $ What other combo could give me bout 40hp ?
And I have been look'n for used cams. The only ones I've seen were only a couple of dollars cheaper than new ones . 

Guarenteeing horsepower is relative. Many of the Carpenter motors are advertised at 215 or 220 hp and we have seen a few of them at 202 and 203,  on other dynos. If you go with teh more radical setup, we have seen as high as 214 with the giant cams that he supplies.

If you already have a 1397, have you had it on a dyno? What did it make. Getting another 40 HP from a 1397 by putting head and cams in it is quite an astonishing feat.   

John

Yea, my 1397(12:1)  only made 181hp when it was built . It's all stk except for the pistons .
As far as the 40hp goes , he"s got a great name at tha track  for his work . I really could care less about the hp numbers , i  want the numbers at the track .
I was running 6.00 in the 1/8th mile. I'ld like to be around 5.80 .

[valley poi]

Anyway, looks as though I'm gonna end up doin this rebuild myself to save $ . New bearings,rings, head&cams . How hard could this be for the first time ?
I'm screwed ! 

Aloha its not hard at all you just need to follow the manual step by step for the basic rebuild and you should get by just fine. Its the little things that the manual doesn't tell you that you will need to figure out like adjusting cam sprockets ,piston depth and a few other things but if you cant figure something out I'm quite sure most people on here will be more than willing to help. Good luck.

Yea, me and my wife have taken it all apart and reassembled it . Just have never been inside the motor before. It's the fear of the unknown i guess . The suprises are always what make it fun . 
Bob was gonna help us out on getting the cams degreed . By the way , what is piston depth ? I don't remember reading anything about that in tha manual. Lol !

Again all together now , I'm screwed !

Aloha piston depth is just how far down into the cylinder the piston is if you dont change the piston or crank you wont have to worry about it. But bad things happen if the piston is too close to the head or valves. I under stand the fear part our first time back to the track after our rebuild all I could think about was if we did every thing right and hoping that it stays together, its running strong for now. Good luck

[sportbikeryder]

Anyway, looks as though I'm gonna end up doin this rebuild myself to save $ . New bearings,rings, head&cams . How hard could this be for the first time ?
I'm screwed ! 

If you are on a tight budget, go with a hand ported head with springs rather than the Carpenter head. Unless you are trying to build an all out race motor, the carpenter head will not give you any more horsepower than an $800 job (Even if you are building an all out race motor...)
Look around and you can find used cams fairly easily, most already with adjustable sprockets. If you are still street riding, don't go too big on the cams.

John

We were thinking about the Carpenter set up 1 cause he guarantees 40hp , and cause he said he'ld help me out trying to get the cams degreed in . Yes, it's just a track bike, no street at all .
I could save a good bit doin another set up , but I'ld like to get as much hp as i can for the $ What other combo could give me bout 40hp ?
And I have been look'n for used cams. The only ones I've seen were only a couple of dollars cheaper than new ones . 

Guarenteeing horsepower is relative. Many of the Carpenter motors are advertised at 215 or 220 hp and we have seen a few of them at 202 and 203,  on other dynos. If you go with teh more radical setup, we have seen as high as 214 with the giant cams that he supplies.

If you already have a 1397, have you had it on a dyno? What did it make. Getting another 40 HP from a 1397 by putting head and cams in it is quite an astonishing feat.   

John

Yea, my 1397(12:1)  only made 181hp when it was built . It's all stk except for the pistons .
As far as the 40hp goes , he"s got a great name at tha track  for his work . I really could care less about the hp numbers , i  want the numbers at the track .
I was running 6.00 in the 1/8th mile. I'ld like to be around 5.80 .

What MPH were you running in the 1/8th and how much do you weigh?

[C_Henry]

Anyway, looks as though I'm gonna end up doin this rebuild myself to save $ . New bearings,rings, head&cams . How hard could this be for the first time ?
I'm screwed ! 

Aloha its not hard at all you just need to follow the manual step by step for the basic rebuild and you should get by just fine. Its the little things that the manual doesn't tell you that you will need to figure out like adjusting cam sprockets ,piston depth and a few other things but if you cant figure something out I'm quite sure most people on here will be more than willing to help. Good luck.

Yea, me and my wife have taken it all apart and reassembled it . Just have never been inside the motor before. It's the fear of the unknown i guess . The suprises are always what make it fun . 
Bob was gonna help us out on getting the cams degreed . By the way , what is piston depth ? I don't remember reading anything about that in tha manual. Lol !

Again all together now , I'm screwed !

Aloha piston depth is just how far down into the cylinder the piston is if you dont change the piston or crank you wont have to worry about it. But bad things happen if the piston is too close to the head or valves. I under stand the fear part our first time back to the track after our rebuild all I could think about was if we did every thing right and hoping that it stays together, its running strong for now. Good luck

Thanks ! Thant makes it a little easier .
I think I'll just lighten and balance my gen1 crank to keep things simple this first time. That way replacing my bearings won't be such a headache , maybe. Again, thanks !

[C_Henry]

Anyway, looks as though I'm gonna end up doin this rebuild myself to save $ . New bearings,rings, head&cams . How hard could this be for the first time ?
I'm screwed ! 

If you are on a tight budget, go with a hand ported head with springs rather than the Carpenter head. Unless you are trying to build an all out race motor, the carpenter head will not give you any more horsepower than an $800 job (Even if you are building an all out race motor...)
Look around and you can find used cams fairly easily, most already with adjustable sprockets. If you are still street riding, don't go too big on the cams.

John

We were thinking about the Carpenter set up 1 cause he guarantees 40hp , and cause he said he'ld help me out trying to get the cams degreed in . Yes, it's just a track bike, no street at all .
I could save a good bit doin another set up , but I'ld like to get as much hp as i can for the $ What other combo could give me bout 40hp ?
And I have been look'n for used cams. The only ones I've seen were only a couple of dollars cheaper than new ones . 

Guarenteeing horsepower is relative. Many of the Carpenter motors are advertised at 215 or 220 hp and we have seen a few of them at 202 and 203,  on other dynos. If you go with teh more radical setup, we have seen as high as 214 with the giant cams that he supplies.

If you already have a 1397, have you had it on a dyno? What did it make. Getting another 40 HP from a 1397 by putting head and cams in it is quite an astonishing feat.   

John

Yea, my 1397(12:1)  only made 181hp when it was built . It's all stk except for the pistons .
As far as the 40hp goes , he"s got a great name at tha track  for his work . I really could care less about the hp numbers , i  want the numbers at the track .
I was running 6.00 in the 1/8th mile. I'ld like to be around 5.80 .

What MPH were you running in the 1/8th and how much do you weigh?

We were running 117mph  consistantly . I weigh 185 suited .

[fvance]

I dont do drag racing,just lsr, Bob did my head and cams, The 210 hp deal. The motor is awesome, made 211 with legal production factory mufflers, made 220 with ti force header. Its a 1340 with Suz. crank rods and pistons.

  Fred

[C_Henry]

I dont do drag racing,just lsr, Bob did my head and cams, The 210 hp deal. The motor is awesome, made 211 with legal production factory mufflers, made 220 with ti force header. Its a 1340 with Suz. crank rods and pistons.

  Fred

Hmm , what else is done to that 1340 ? Most 1397's with big valved heads don't even come close to that hp . My builder was gonna build me a big valve head 1441 , and he said it would make about 218hp. I know Bob is a bad man, but i just would like to know how so much with so less ?

[fvance]

First of all why do you want a big valve head? The Forstall, Knecum, Deluca, run BIGmotors and I am pretty sure they all run stock size valves. Steve used to work for Bob C.
As for my motor every thying was thought out and lots of attention to detail, tight squish, precision balance, clearances all the same.

  Fred

[C_Henry]

First of all why do you want a big valve head? The Forstall, Knecum, Deluca, run BIGmotors and I am pretty sure they all run stock size valves. Steve used to work for Bob C.
As for my motor every thying was thought out and lots of attention to detail, tight squish, precision balance, clearances all the same.

  Fred

I don't know about the big valve head thing, thats just what my builder  wanted to do . I don't know a thing about building motors, thats why i had so many questions about yours . I know i cain't afford anything like that anyway.
I'm gonna use Bob cause i trust him and his work rep  speaks for itself on  tracks across the country . 

[Wolf1397]

Fred can use a tight squish and high compression because the gas is really good at Bonneville.  ERC provides four different blends that can be used in the production class.  Most guys that drag race use pump gas, hence the lower outputs.  Bob’s heads are obviously great and you can’t go wrong with him.  Another option could be Jim at Competition CNC if you want machined ports.  He is a sponsor here and his heads have gone very fast in both LSR and drag race venues.  I have not compared prices but would not be surprised if Jim is substantially less expensive that Bob.  So many choices…

[C_Henry]

Fred can use a tight squish and high compression because the gas is really good at Bonneville.  ERC provides four different blends that can be used in the production class.  Most guys that drag race use pump gas, hence the lower outputs.  Bob’s heads are obviously great and you can’t go wrong with him.  Another option could be Jim at Competition CNC if you want machined ports.  He is a sponsor here and his heads have gone very fast in both LSR and drag race venues.  I have not compared prices but would not be surprised if Jim is substantially less expensive that Bob.  So many choices…

Yes, I'm gonna call them and see what they have to offer. Me being on a very tight  budget , Bob might be out of reach for me. Yes, so many choices out there ! 

I still gotta get all tha special tools , and a few more parts . 

[Wolf1397]

Fred can use a tight squish and high compression because the gas is really good at Bonneville.  ERC provides four different blends that can be used in the production class.  Most guys that drag race use pump gas, hence the lower outputs.  Bob’s heads are obviously great and you can’t go wrong with him.  Another option could be Jim at Competition CNC if you want machined ports.  He is a sponsor here and his heads have gone very fast in both LSR and drag race venues.  I have not compared prices but would not be surprised if Jim is substantially less expensive that Bob.  So many choices…

Yes, I'm gonna call them and see what they have to offer. Me being on a very tight  budget , Bob might be out of reach for me. Yes, so many choices out there ! 

I still gotta get all tha special tools , and a few more parts . 

Best of luck to you.  It is nice to have the knowledge base of SH.org available at your fingertips, should you have any questions.

[Wolf1397]

SAE Outlaw Performance, which is another sponsor here, is also well-known for building some very strong motors.  I believe he hand ports his heads.  Some builders prefer that over CNC.  Different opinions for different folks.

[C_Henry]

Fred can use a tight squish and high compression because the gas is really good at Bonneville.  ERC provides four different blends that can be used in the production class.  Most guys that drag race use pump gas, hence the lower outputs.  Bob’s heads are obviously great and you can’t go wrong with him.  Another option could be Jim at Competition CNC if you want machined ports.  He is a sponsor here and his heads have gone very fast in both LSR and drag race venues.  I have not compared prices but would not be surprised if Jim is substantially less expensive that Bob.  So many choices…

Yes, I'm gonna call them and see what they have to offer. Me being on a very tight  budget , Bob might be out of reach for me. Yes, so many choices out there ! 

I still gotta get all tha special tools , and a few more parts . 

Best of luck to you.  It is nice to have the knowledge base of SH.org available at your fingertips, should you have any questions.

Yes, the things i worry about are the things unknown that we'll run up on . I hope when this happens , the  .Org will be here for me . 

[tyboogie]

you might as well make it a 1441 going to cost the same  

How does making it a 1441 cost the same as freshening a motor? Need to buy another crank and a spacer to make it a 1441.

by the time he sells his stock crank it will be maybe an extra 350 give or take

c-henry nows what i was talking about some people need to stay out of other peoples business unless you no what is going on  

If someone posts something on a public forum then please be prepared for whatever opinions that will be offered. The man is asking for help before he starts his build and there was not one negative comment posted.  If you two had a personal conversation that is fine but do not bash someone for trying to help out .

[redrednose]

BRYAN SNYDER ......NUFF SAID

[C_Henry]

Who is he ?

[C_Henry]

Wow, i just scored a deal on a 08 crank ! Looks like we'll be doin a 1441 now ! 

[C_Henry]

Deal fell through on tha crank . Dam !

[clearblue]

I just had mine done by Bob 1397 13to1 porting and head package cams 425/425 bike made 213hp on first pull pump gas and a Muzzy pipe the bike should make about 220hp after everything breaks in Then if you add all the other things in Race Gas, Air Box Lid, All Short Stacks and a well tuned map close to 230hp But that also depends on who's Dyno. Bob does a great job and it will cost ya about the same as all good motor builders charge. I use this bike on the street and it pulls like a mule and have yet to see what it will do at the track

[clearblue]

Henry if ya want to talk more about my build PM me
mark

[C_Henry]

Henry if ya want to talk more about my build PM me
mark

Thanks Mark ! But, I just cain't afford Bob . Congrates on tha build though ! Man, I'll bet that thing runs ! 

[clearblue]

Yes runs great! I have not had it to the track yet as It's cold now in NY  What's $5000 LOL It's only money