need help new motor won't run right

[jblankenship]

Gen: 1. Okay only pulled the head off. Squeezed the piston to head down a bit, went from 2 intake cams to 395/378 webs, and cleaned the head up a bit. And an airbox lid. When I got the cams I could tell the intake cam pin had been messed with so I reset(keep this in mind). Degreed the cams to 106/108. Bike is a little hard to start but on one freshly charged battery turns enough cold that it sounds like the bike should be firing. So I pull the plugs and their soaked with gas so I clean them and put them back in and get the bike running but had to fire it off 24v. First question is does the bike fire the injectors and the ignition coils off the the cam pin or just the the ignition coils? So I go ride it and runs fine, will idle at 1200-1250 all day. In 1-3 gears it will pull to red line no problem, 4-6 when the bike gets to 8500-9500 rpm it studders like the bikes cuts off and back on. Unless it spins then it will go to red line no problem.

Here is what I have tried: swapped fuel pumps, bypassed kick stand switch, took tre off, unhooked pc3, giving it more fuel, even tried some c16, unhooked mps kill box. My cam timing at top dead center has the intake valve bucket down .105 and exhaust down .095. Found true top dead center with a positive piston stop.

If the pin is off just slightly would that keep it from starting or cause a weak spark? Wouldn't I get an FI light immediately.

Would fouled plugs do this?

[peanuthead]

i had that same prob on my 1397 and then changed the spark plugs and then the prob went away.new spark plugs is the first thing to change.sometimez even if you over tighten them a little bit,it will miss on ya at hi rpm

[jblankenship]

yeah I think I jumped the gun pulling the motor back out, but you know everyone always screams cam timing. I'm positive it's dead on, but people always tell me you can be a tooth off and still get the right degree numbers but it won't run right. That doesn't make sense to me. If I'm finding tdc with a positive piston stop and then using the correct formulas you should get the same numbers as long as the cam is oriented correctly.

[Rossco]

I know you said you unhooked pc3 but... is it a pc3r or pc111usb?
IF it's a pc3r did you also unhook the ignition pickup from it too?
I had HUGE head aches with a pc3r, same symptoms as you.

[jblankenship]

its a usb

[Busa Quick]

  The cam pin is supposed to stick out on one side only. If you have a stock cam that has not been touched you can check the measurement. The cam pin helps the ECU know when it is time to fire the plugs on the compression stroke only. Otherwise, the plug would fire everytime the piston was at TDC like some lawn mower engines do.




Mark

[J.R.]

The cam pin is supposed to stick out on one side only. If you have a stock cam that has not been touched you can check the measurement. The cam pin helps the ECU know when it is time to fire the plugs on the compression stroke only. Otherwise, the plug would fire everytime the piston was at TDC like some lawn mower engines do.
Mark

+2. Built a 1397 and had the lobe centers to high that ran like yours. Pulled the cams back down to 107/108 and the bike ran perfect. That pin has to be oriented in the correct position is all I know.

[jblankenship]

rechecked the cam timing today and it is 106/108. On number 1 cylinder at top dead center intake cam bucket it down .102, and exhaust cam bucket is down .089. Found the cam pin to be out the cam .317. Reset that to .313. Would what little amount cause the problem? I also ordered new plugs that should be here tomorrow.

[THEMOTORHEAD]

It could be as simple as a bad connection that within that rpm causes a buzz and subsequent misfire
Be sure you disconnect anything like kills etc be sure not to use scotchlocs
it is either load based ( doubtful)or it a vibration/frequency thing
I'd disconnect anything associated with the ign first
(like ya did bit check all connectors or where scotchlocs could have cut yer coil wires so they may intermittantly disconnect etc)
Cam pin ht is for injector timing and if it were out of faze wiith the crank trigger it would spray fuel too late and cause a misfiring lean condition typically in the 85-9500 rpm range in all gears
It will sound like a really rough rev limiter

[jblankenship]

motor is back in bike and will try to get out on it today. Tried unplugging the cam position sensore and hitting the starter, no fuel comes out. The busa gets fuel signal from the cam position sensor. Also stuck a screw driver up in each coil and each one will arc to ground when cranking so it's got fire. I also sprayed each connector out on the bike real good as I was putting it back together again. I forgot the only other thing I did was block this off to the throttle bodies and to this sensor from that black canister behind the throttle bodies. Could this cause it? The black canister is no longer on the bike. I was also riding with no air filter so I put that back in just to make sure it's not leaning out.

[Busa Quick]

  What you have in the picture is the solenoid valve that runs the flapper valve. You could have it totally open and that would not hurt anything. I am assuming all unused vacuum lines from the throttles are plugged.


 You made enough changes to your engine it might be that your fueling is way off and that is why the engine will go to redline but, only if it unloads with a spinning tire.


Mark

[THEMOTORHEAD]

That black canister is just a vacuum reservoir connected to a solenoid valve to store vacuum to actuate the flapper mechanism in the air box.It is not just and rpm based problem as it does not happen if it spins.
Thus it is either load based  (upper gears and traction)or an associative problem like vibration etc.that happens SIMULTANEOUSLY .
Do you get an fi light when this happens?I would run the bike see if you just get on it in say 3rd gear does it act the same as when you go through the gears(this would unveil a fuel deliver issue possibility(like vacuum in the fuel tank from poor ventilation/fuel used vs air replacement in that space)
you can disconnect the cam position sensor once it starts but only then because it has a reference as to the cams position in reference to the crank position so it will just go  into default mode  if you disconnect it after it is running.you can have a bad cpk or interference to its signal from that sensor but iI doubt it because it runs good in lower gears.

[THEMOTORHEAD]

Btw I would install new plugs first and foremost

[jblankenship]

so you are saying try to get up around redline then start banging gears to see if it will operate above the problem rpm in the upper gears once past the problem rpm?

[jblankenship]

so you are saying try to get up around redline then start banging gears to see if it will operate above the problem rpm in the upper gears once past the problem rpm?

going to get them right now.

[sportbikeryder]

Are you sure you have your IAP sensor (the one on the airbox) hooked up electrically and with the hose?

[jblankenship]

yes

[THEMOTORHEAD]

so you are saying try to get up around redline then start banging gears to see if it will operate above the problem rpm in the upper gears once past the problem rpm?

yup

[THEMOTORHEAD]

Are you sure you have your IAP sensor (the one on the airbox) hooked up electrically and with the hose?

you can run the bike with the iap cps and aip all diconnected once it is running it will just be in default mode for each

[knecum]

motor is back in bike and will try to get out on it today. Tried unplugging the cam position sensore and hitting the starter, no fuel comes out. The busa gets fuel signal from the cam position sensor. Also stuck a screw driver up in each coil and each one will arc to ground when cranking so it's got fire. I also sprayed each connector out on the bike real good as I was putting it back together again. I forgot the only other thing I did was block this off to the throttle bodies and to this sensor from that black canister behind the throttle bodies. Could this cause it? The black canister is no longer on the bike. I was also riding with no air filter so I put that back in just to make sure it's not leaning out.

Btw when working around a open port its always good to keep them stuffed with paper towel so no foreign objects get dropped in port and you miss it assembling...

[genarr3]

Btw when working around a open port its always good to keep them stuffed with paper towel so no foreign objects get dropped in port and you miss it assembling...

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. That's how disasters happen. Always stuff something in there.

[knecum]

Yeah when he posted that pic of the valve with a screw in the hose over the port..its like whats wrong with this pic.!!

[GSXRTURBO1]

I believe the engine has to turn a certain RPM before the injectors come online. Does it turn over slow with just the one battery? If so, that would explain why it only starts with the 24V setup.

Also, the cutting out at 8500 RPM has been an issue from the very beginning. I believe it's always been traced to either bad cam timing and/or an issue with the cam pin signal.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out 

[Cookie]

Are you sure you have your IAP sensor (the one on the airbox) hooked up electrically and with the hose?

you can run the bike with the iap cps and aip all diconnected once it is running it will just be in default mode for each

It would still start and run? 

[THEMOTORHEAD]

Has to be started first
read dork