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Author Topic: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up  (Read 21296 times)

Offline Shamrock

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Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« on: April 16, 2010, 09:11:11 PM »
I know alot of guys would like help with that and I am one of them  :thumb:

Offline todd v smith

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2010, 10:26:29 PM »
r u racing this year see you at muncie bring pat
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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2010, 07:53:10 AM »
I just installed mine and will be trying to tune it next weekend at MIR. Looks liek a nice piece. Should be interesting.
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.51, 171.75mph 1/8th mile  6.908, 212.83mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline b l u e b u s a 1

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2010, 12:37:41 PM »
read instructions then dump clutch twist throttle :hys:

Offline Shamrock

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2010, 07:18:24 PM »
Hays Convertable Clutch Installation Instructions   
Convertable Clutch Installation Instructions

The Convertible Clutch is designed to install similar to your OEM clutch.

   1. Install the outer basket.
   2. Install the  bearing/shim kit with the bearing facing the inner hub
   3. Install the inner hub
   4. Install clutch pack and set air gap at 0.040-0.050 thousanths (for use in slider mode) (.100 for use in Lockup Mode)
   5. Install the clutch pusher rod.
   6. Install the outer hat assy. Using the 4mm socket head cap screws provided.

Replace the hardened steel spacer that goes between the face of the clutch basket and the inner hub with the thrust washer shim kit assy. Make sure the needle bearing faces the inner hub. If you don't have .003 to .008 clearance the inner hub will not rotate if there is not enough clearance,likewise the basket will have excessive endplay on the higher end of the spectrum


Install the factory pusher assy. in the end of the input shaft.


Install friction and metal plates same as with stock procedure, except eliminate the stock ring and spring washer, start with a fiber then steel then fiber then steel continue till you end with fiber. make sure the air gap is .040-0.050 (for use in slider mode) (.100 for use in Lockup Mode)
 air gap is measured from the edge of the basket to the last fiber plate,subtracting any step in the clutch hat/pressure plate assy., If not,you can mix steels and fibers to obtain the correct air gap.

Place the hat assembly on the basket and tighten the allen head cap screws to secure it.



            Adjusting the Convertable Clutch in slider/hand clutch combination mode

using the 6 short Medium Stall compression springs supplied with your unit set the height at .890 thousanths from the top of the adjuster nuts to the top of the hat assy. you can then check to see what rpm the clutch engages and adjust the stall speed from there,to increase stall speed you turn the 16mm adjuster nut in a clockwise direction,to decrease stall speed turn in a counter-clockwise direction,if you would like a lower desired stall speed use the 6 Low Stall Compression springs included in your kit.

it is not neccesary to attach the 3 extension springs to the lockup arms when running in the combination mode.

Slider/Hand Clutch Combination

To use the Convertible Clutch in the COMBINATION mode you will install the 6 short springs supplied with your kit on the outside of the hat assy. Using the spring adjuster nuts you adjust the height of the adjuster nut to set the rpm at which the clutch engages,for standard street use we recommend 1800-2100 rpm engagement,for dragstrip use you may want to experiment with different rpm engagements for best results.

In this configuration your clutch will engage based on engine rpm (slider),your clutch lever will override the engagement of the clutch at any rpm and you can also hold in the clutch and launch the bike at any rpm you wish,no matter what the rpm engagement is set at.


Stall speed is simply adjusted by placing a 16mm socket on the nut and adjusting it clockwise(increase rpm) or counterclockwise(decrease rpm).

You can also adjust the amount of weight on the lockup arms to fne tune stall speed and control at what rpm and how hard the clutch engages.

Single Stage Engine Driven Lockup

To use the Convertible Clutch in the Single Stage Engine Driven Lockup mode you will need to remove the 4mm screws holding the hat assy. To the basket and install the 6 long springs supplied with your kit in between the pressure plate and outer hat assy,and install back onto the basket.
 It is not necessary to remove the 8mm studs from the pressure plate but you will need to remove the spring adjuster nuts and the springs from the outside of the hat assy place them elsewhere while using this mode.

Using this combination the clutch will engage/disengage using the clutch lever only,and tuning will be performed by varying the static pressure of the base spring and the weight on the lockup arms.

Multi stage Engine Driven Lockup

To use the Convertible Clutch in the Multi Stage Engine Driven Lockup mode you can simply attach the 3 extension springs provided in the kit to the clutch arms in the 2 small holes located in the middle of the arms,to allow an additional level of tuning ability. there are 3 sets of extension tuning springs included in your kit for adjustability                                                                                                                                                           NOTE: DO NOT ATTACH THE EXTENSION SPRINGS TO THE LARGE HOLE AT THE TOP OF THE LOCKUP ARM THEY WILL BREAK.
 
 

Online STUNNAH

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2010, 12:26:35 AM »
Clear as mud... :duh:
Getting "Blown" is a hell-of-a drug...STUNNAH...

Offline Competitive Edge Racing Cylinder Heads

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2010, 07:53:45 AM »
Hays Convertable Clutch Installation Instructions   
Convertable Clutch Installation Instructions

The Convertible Clutch is designed to install similar to your OEM clutch.

   1. Install the outer basket.
   2. Install the  bearing/shim kit with the bearing facing the inner hub
   3. Install the inner hub
   4. Install clutch pack and set air gap at 0.040-0.050 thousanths (for use in slider mode) (.100 for use in Lockup Mode)
   5. Install the clutch pusher rod.
   6. Install the outer hat assy. Using the 4mm socket head cap screws provided.

Replace the hardened steel spacer that goes between the face of the clutch basket and the inner hub with the thrust washer shim kit assy. Make sure the needle bearing faces the inner hub. If you don't have .003 to .008 clearance the inner hub will not rotate if there is not enough clearance,likewise the basket will have excessive endplay on the higher end of the spectrum


Install the factory pusher assy. in the end of the input shaft.


Install friction and metal plates same as with stock procedure, except eliminate the stock ring and spring washer, start with a fiber then steel then fiber then steel continue till you end with fiber. make sure the air gap is .040-0.050 (for use in slider mode) (.100 for use in Lockup Mode)
 air gap is measured from the edge of the basket to the last fiber plate,subtracting any step in the clutch hat/pressure plate assy., If not,you can mix steels and fibers to obtain the correct air gap.

Place the hat assembly on the basket and tighten the allen head cap screws to secure it.



            Adjusting the Convertable Clutch in slider/hand clutch combination mode

using the 6 short Medium Stall compression springs supplied with your unit set the height at .890 thousanths from the top of the adjuster nuts to the top of the hat assy. you can then check to see what rpm the clutch engages and adjust the stall speed from there,to increase stall speed you turn the 16mm adjuster nut in a clockwise direction,to decrease stall speed turn in a counter-clockwise direction,if you would like a lower desired stall speed use the 6 Low Stall Compression springs included in your kit.

it is not neccesary to attach the 3 extension springs to the lockup arms when running in the combination mode.

Slider/Hand Clutch Combination

To use the Convertible Clutch in the COMBINATION mode you will install the 6 short springs supplied with your kit on the outside of the hat assy. Using the spring adjuster nuts you adjust the height of the adjuster nut to set the rpm at which the clutch engages,for standard street use we recommend 1800-2100 rpm engagement,for dragstrip use you may want to experiment with different rpm engagements for best results.

In this configuration your clutch will engage based on engine rpm (slider),your clutch lever will override the engagement of the clutch at any rpm and you can also hold in the clutch and launch the bike at any rpm you wish,no matter what the rpm engagement is set at.


Stall speed is simply adjusted by placing a 16mm socket on the nut and adjusting it clockwise(increase rpm) or counterclockwise(decrease rpm).

You can also adjust the amount of weight on the lockup arms to fne tune stall speed and control at what rpm and how hard the clutch engages.

Single Stage Engine Driven Lockup

To use the Convertible Clutch in the Single Stage Engine Driven Lockup mode you will need to remove the 4mm screws holding the hat assy. To the basket and install the 6 long springs supplied with your kit in between the pressure plate and outer hat assy,and install back onto the basket.
 It is not necessary to remove the 8mm studs from the pressure plate but you will need to remove the spring adjuster nuts and the springs from the outside of the hat assy place them elsewhere while using this mode.

Using this combination the clutch will engage/disengage using the clutch lever only,and tuning will be performed by varying the static pressure of the base spring and the weight on the lockup arms.

Multi stage Engine Driven Lockup

To use the Convertible Clutch in the Multi Stage Engine Driven Lockup mode you can simply attach the 3 extension springs provided in the kit to the clutch arms in the 2 small holes located in the middle of the arms,to allow an additional level of tuning ability. there are 3 sets of extension tuning springs included in your kit for adjustability                                                                                                                                                           NOTE: DO NOT ATTACH THE EXTENSION SPRINGS TO THE LARGE HOLE AT THE TOP OF THE LOCKUP ARM THEY WILL BREAK.
 
 

:lol:    :lol:    Yea............. I read that about 2000 times?????????? & Still cant get this thing Too 60'foot??????  :hys:   :hys:
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Offline Mike-Nightrider

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2010, 04:10:15 PM »
 "air gap is measured from the edge of the basket to the last fiber plate,subtracting any step in the clutch hat/pressure plate assy.,
If not,you can mix steels and fibers to obtain the correct air gap."


Hope you can help me out guys.
Ive tried to set the air gap at .100 for use the clutch in Lockup mode today.
I have installed the thinnest clutch pack that is possible (only thin fibers and thin steel plates) and the gap is only 0,075" !!!!    :?
Perhaps I made a mistake when I measured the gap.
Ive measured it without clutch-hat/assy from the edge of the outer basket to the last fiber.

Is that right????

Cheers, Mikey

Dragraceteam NIGHTRIDER
1/8: 5.101s..........1/4: 7.801s
227.7mph Woodbridge/GB 2013

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2010, 04:44:59 PM »
Hope you can help me out guys.
Ive tried to set the air gap at .100 for use the clutch in Lockup mode today.
I have installed the thinnest clutch pack that is possible (only thin fibers and thin steel plates) and the gap is only 0,075" !!!!    :?
Perhaps I made a mistake when I measured the gap.
Ive measured it without clutch-hat/assy from the edge of the outer basket to the last fiber.
Is that right????
Cheers, Mikey
how many steels and fibers are you using? i measured the distance from the pressure plate t the hat when the pressure plate was fully out against the hat, then measures with teh pressure plate fuly against the clutch pack, then subtracted the two.
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.51, 171.75mph 1/8th mile  6.908, 212.83mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline Mike-Nightrider

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2010, 05:45:00 PM »
John, I ve installed 10 fibres and 9 steels (like stock)

OK, I will measure the air gap like you explained, tomorrow.
Perhaps it was not enough pressure to push the clutch pack only with 2 fingers.

Damn, its not possible to make a short testrun here.  :(
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 05:47:29 PM by Mike-Nightrider »
Dragraceteam NIGHTRIDER
1/8: 5.101s..........1/4: 7.801s
227.7mph Woodbridge/GB 2013

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2010, 06:05:04 PM »
i am certainly no expert mike, but I noticed a difference once the hat and springs were installed and the clutch lever pulled a few times to seat the clutch pack. I just put in 6 screws in (2 ieach in the area of the lockup arms, assuming you don;t have the new t3 clutch with 6 arms, to set it up, then when it was right, I put the rest in. saves taking so many bolts in and out.

also need to check the basket endplay after you install the hub, and adjust by adding / removing shims if necessary before setting the air gap.
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.51, 171.75mph 1/8th mile  6.908, 212.83mph 1/4 mile Tuning

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2010, 06:07:45 PM »
there are no real rules to seting it up (oher than the shim pack). i talked with a guy the other day who is in MS lockup mode, but installed very stiff springs under the hat and also put the slider springs in with the aluminum nuts. he can adjust the static without taking the hat off....pretty good idea I thought. I watched him go 1.32 60'
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.51, 171.75mph 1/8th mile  6.908, 212.83mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline Mike-Nightrider

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2010, 06:15:52 PM »
1,32  :thumb:  That is my goal this year... :?

Yes I have the "old" one with only 3 arms. Bought it used from a board member.
Its all new for me. Ive never used a Hays clutch before.
We will see.....  :wink:
Dragraceteam NIGHTRIDER
1/8: 5.101s..........1/4: 7.801s
227.7mph Woodbridge/GB 2013

Offline Competitive Edge Racing Cylinder Heads

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2010, 09:26:24 AM »
1,32  :thumb:  That is my goal this year... :?

Yes I have the "old" one with only 3 arms. Bought it used from a board member.
Its all new for me. Ive never used a Hays clutch before.
We will see.....  :wink:
:thumb:    :thumb:    Mike.......... If you need any suggestions?????? Send me a PM & I Will give ya my phone number and I can possibly help you with ur hays set-up???????  Ive only had the damn thing in all the modes, like five times in the past week or two?????????   :lol:    :lol:  LMK
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Offline Mike-Nightrider

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2010, 11:14:21 AM »
1,32  :thumb:  That is my goal this year... :?

Yes I have the "old" one with only 3 arms. Bought it used from a board member.
Its all new for me. Ive never used a Hays clutch before.
We will see.....  :wink:
:thumb:    :thumb:    Mike.......... If you need any suggestions?????? Send me a PM & I Will give ya my phone number and I can possibly help you with ur hays set-up???????  Ive only had the damn thing in all the modes, like five times in the past week or two?????????   :lol:    :lol:  LMK
Thats cool bro  :thumb: Thanks !!!
I will have more information after the first test runs next weekend.
The bike is completely new and I hope not to have big issues.
So I can give all my concentration on the clutch setup.
Cheers, Mikey
Dragraceteam NIGHTRIDER
1/8: 5.101s..........1/4: 7.801s
227.7mph Woodbridge/GB 2013

Offline GBUSA

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2010, 12:49:33 PM »
read instructions then dump clutch twist throttle :hys:

 8) 8) 8)
9.36@148 wit bone stock motor @ 60"

Offline GBUSA

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2010, 12:53:36 PM »
Hays Convertable Clutch Installation Instructions   
Convertable Clutch Installation Instructions

The Convertible Clutch is designed to install similar to your OEM clutch.

   1. Install the outer basket.
   2. Install the  bearing/shim kit with the bearing facing the inner hub
   3. Install the inner hub
   4. Install clutch pack and set air gap at 0.040-0.050 thousanths (for use in slider mode) (.100 for use in Lockup Mode)
   5. Install the clutch pusher rod.
   6. Install the outer hat assy. Using the 4mm socket head cap screws provided.

Replace the hardened steel spacer that goes between the face of the clutch basket and the inner hub with the thrust washer shim kit assy. Make sure the needle bearing faces the inner hub. If you don't have .003 to .008 clearance the inner hub will not rotate if there is not enough clearance,likewise the basket will have excessive endplay on the higher end of the spectrum


Install the factory pusher assy. in the end of the input shaft.


Install friction and metal plates same as with stock procedure, except eliminate the stock ring and spring washer, start with a fiber then steel then fiber then steel continue till you end with fiber. make sure the air gap is .040-0.050 (for use in slider mode) (.100 for use in Lockup Mode)
 air gap is measured from the edge of the basket to the last fiber plate,subtracting any step in the clutch hat/pressure plate assy., If not,you can mix steels and fibers to obtain the correct air gap.

Place the hat assembly on the basket and tighten the allen head cap screws to secure it.



            Adjusting the Convertable Clutch in slider/hand clutch combination mode

using the 6 short Medium Stall compression springs supplied with your unit set the height at .890 thousanths from the top of the adjuster nuts to the top of the hat assy. you can then check to see what rpm the clutch engages and adjust the stall speed from there,to increase stall speed you turn the 16mm adjuster nut in a clockwise direction,to decrease stall speed turn in a counter-clockwise direction,if you would like a lower desired stall speed use the 6 Low Stall Compression springs included in your kit.

it is not neccesary to attach the 3 extension springs to the lockup arms when running in the combination mode.

Slider/Hand Clutch Combination

To use the Convertible Clutch in the COMBINATION mode you will install the 6 short springs supplied with your kit on the outside of the hat assy. Using the spring adjuster nuts you adjust the height of the adjuster nut to set the rpm at which the clutch engages,for standard street use we recommend 1800-2100 rpm engagement,for dragstrip use you may want to experiment with different rpm engagements for best results.

In this configuration your clutch will engage based on engine rpm (slider),your clutch lever will override the engagement of the clutch at any rpm and you can also hold in the clutch and launch the bike at any rpm you wish,no matter what the rpm engagement is set at.


Stall speed is simply adjusted by placing a 16mm socket on the nut and adjusting it clockwise(increase rpm) or counterclockwise(decrease rpm).

You can also adjust the amount of weight on the lockup arms to fne tune stall speed and control at what rpm and how hard the clutch engages.

Single Stage Engine Driven Lockup

To use the Convertible Clutch in the Single Stage Engine Driven Lockup mode you will need to remove the 4mm screws holding the hat assy. To the basket and install the 6 long springs supplied with your kit in between the pressure plate and outer hat assy,and install back onto the basket.
 It is not necessary to remove the 8mm studs from the pressure plate but you will need to remove the spring adjuster nuts and the springs from the outside of the hat assy place them elsewhere while using this mode.

Using this combination the clutch will engage/disengage using the clutch lever only,and tuning will be performed by varying the static pressure of the base spring and the weight on the lockup arms.

Multi stage Engine Driven Lockup

To use the Convertible Clutch in the Multi Stage Engine Driven Lockup mode you can simply attach the 3 extension springs provided in the kit to the clutch arms in the 2 small holes located in the middle of the arms,to allow an additional level of tuning ability. there are 3 sets of extension tuning springs included in your kit for adjustability                                                                                                                                                           NOTE: DO NOT ATTACH THE EXTENSION SPRINGS TO THE LARGE HOLE AT THE TOP OF THE LOCKUP ARM THEY WILL BREAK.
 
 


  8) 8)
9.36@148 wit bone stock motor @ 60"

Offline timhays

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2010, 01:45:09 AM »
any questions you may have please email and i will asist you.

our installation instructions were developed upon the busa release of our original clutch and since then we have developed 11 different models and some models have 2 differnt versions.

we are working on revising and clarifying install instructions for each individual model.

also the data we have for tuning is updated constantly,inquire for any questions you may have.

Offline PetriK

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2010, 11:04:05 AM »
Have the hays clutch in my hand and thinking hard to undestand how it should be tuned. I think I need some tuning data starting point, but in the meanwhile a question ... I dont really follow this sentence in the above written very good tuning advice.

Quote
In this configuration your clutch will engage based on engine rpm (slider),your clutch lever will override the engagement of the clutch at any rpm and you can also hold in the clutch and launch the bike at any rpm you wish,no matter what the rpm engagement is set at.

Does this really mean that I could launch at any rpm, also at lower than what the rpm engagement is set at ? There is somekind of stored inertia to the arms which get released when clutch is depressed to allow launch also at lower rpm.s ?


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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2010, 11:22:29 AM »
Have the hays clutch in my hand and thinking hard to undestand how it should be tuned. I think I need some tuning data starting point, but in the meanwhile a question ... I dont really follow this sentence in the above written very good tuning advice.

Quote
In this configuration your clutch will engage based on engine rpm (slider),your clutch lever will override the engagement of the clutch at any rpm and you can also hold in the clutch and launch the bike at any rpm you wish,no matter what the rpm engagement is set at.

Does this really mean that I could launch at any rpm, also at lower than what the rpm engagement is set at ? There is somekind of stored inertia to the arms which get released when clutch is depressed to allow launch also at lower rpm.s ?



No, When setup in slider mode AND with a clutch lever / slave still installed on the bike, the clutch lever is simply an override. The clutch will still act as a slider in all but the clutch in, high RPM condition, where teh clutch can be disengaged by the clutch lever. I am not sure where this woudl come into play, other than if one wanted to disengage the clutch at high RPM for some reason.

One case where this may have been beneficial is where user "Johnny Hotnuts" spun his busa powered car on the salt at high speed, rotated the engine backwards due to the wheels being reversed, and caused damage / breakage. I suppose he MAY heve been able to save teh engine if he were somehow able to disengage the clutch fast enough (not sure that is practical under those conditions though...)

It really needs to be set up to race OR for low RPM street use to be effective. Setting it up for low RPM street engagement will compromise the ability of the clutch to provide a great launch.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 11:24:19 AM by sportbikeryder »
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.51, 171.75mph 1/8th mile  6.908, 212.83mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline Competitive Edge Racing Cylinder Heads

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2010, 04:31:47 PM »
 :lol:    :lol:   I Put ah Hays in my lil grudge bike, & its pretty close......... To bad thats with my chick on it though?????  :hys: :hys:

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Offline Competitive Edge Racing Cylinder Heads

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2010, 04:38:34 PM »
 :thumb:  :thumb:  Heres a video of me testing the hays last week........... Small dry shot!!!!!   :thumb:   :thumb:
http://www.youtube.com/user/lilmikef
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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2010, 06:10:32 PM »
 :thumb:

Offline JamesOK

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2010, 09:37:42 PM »
:thumb:  :thumb:  Heres a video of me testing the hays last week........... Small dry shot!!!!!   :thumb:   :thumb:
http://www.youtube.com/user/lilmikef

Very nice!
400+hp velocity stg2 turbo Gen1 coming this week I think!

Offline Mike-Nightrider

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2010, 01:42:28 AM »
 :thumb:
Dragraceteam NIGHTRIDER
1/8: 5.101s..........1/4: 7.801s
227.7mph Woodbridge/GB 2013