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Author Topic: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up  (Read 21142 times)

Offline 1badassbusa1962

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2010, 12:17:30 PM »
few things to keep in mind the springs on the arms do need to be replaced at least every 50 passes,,,,,,,, i had 2 of them break and end up in my pan,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, my bike rider combo was about 700 pounds and i went 1.32 60s,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but had a verry hard time duplicating a 60 foot time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and i seemed to have better luck keeping the air gap on initial setup at .090 and i also did away with the shim packs and actually machined the center hub down to get my .005 with the bearing in place,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and also took the stock inner basket and put it on a lathe and turned the lower fibre contact area to make it flat with the center hub,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, its a good setup but i wander if the mtc although much more expensive is more consistent on the 60 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or if the 6 arm is more consistent

Offline MICHAEL MATHEWS

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2010, 06:24:08 PM »
If you are breraking springs something is wrong.Mine has literally hundreds of passes with no broken springs.My brothers GSXR 60fts about the same as yours and has never broke a spring.Are you sure they are in the right holes?

Offline 1badassbusa1962

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2010, 06:29:22 PM »
by the directions i pulled it apart to check the static and they were gone dropped the pan and they were in the pickup not knockin tims stuff at all but i would recomend changing them i know i will they arent that much and if those sprints or pieces got between the crank gear and the clutch gear or trans gears that would have been catastrophic just cheap insurance and i still run it and will continue too

Offline Williford Racing

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2010, 12:25:13 PM »
Have the hays clutch in my hand and thinking hard to undestand how it should be tuned. I think I need some tuning data starting point, but in the meanwhile a question ... I dont really follow this sentence in the above written very good tuning advice.

Quote
In this configuration your clutch will engage based on engine rpm (slider),your clutch lever will override the engagement of the clutch at any rpm and you can also hold in the clutch and launch the bike at any rpm you wish,no matter what the rpm engagement is set at.

Does this really mean that I could launch at any rpm, also at lower than what the rpm engagement is set at ? There is somekind of stored inertia to the arms which get released when clutch is depressed to allow launch also at lower rpm.s ?



The clutch does not have any "stactic" pressure in this set up. It will act as a centrifugal (sp) clutch unless you pull the clutch lever in and override the centrifugal force. So, yes, there is some stored energy in the arms and you have held the pressure plate from the clutch pack by pulling the clutch lever.
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Offline caddylt1

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2011, 07:54:42 PM »
I just bought a bike with a T3 in it.  What would be the most "street friendly" way to set this clutch up.  It set up for a 7500 rpm throw away at the moment, no to street friendly.  I have never used a lockup or a multi stage lockup before.  This thread is like giberish to me haha.  I just dont wanna mess this clutch up.

-Rich
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Hays T3 Convertible
64 inch wheelbase
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Offline ECS Walter

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2011, 08:39:11 PM »
This clutch has no throw in settings, you have to baseline in it and tune from there. I had 2 bikes in slider mode last weekend the 1397 did 1.25's and the bigger motor bike did 1.22's. The first Hays i ever tuned within 2 passes i did 1.20's at my weight on a motor bike, then changed it for the rider to slider mode and she did 1.20 60's. It's more then just having a baseline settings. Try putting a baseline setting in a multi and throw it away....  :wink:
I 99.9% never change the static (except for spring variance), i never change the stack height on a hand clutch and have never had to change the air gap on the slider to get them to work. As on any bike there is more then just how you springed the arms and how much weight on the arms. There is your clutch VS throttle your gearing, number of plates, chassis, your motor size, turbo or nitrous. That's why you can't have a baseline to suit everybody. You can either get a clutch that has many many tuning capabilities to setup for your situation or you buy a slider with little adaptability. But with the many possibilities comes the need for experience and knowledge on the different roads to get to the promised land. I do consults and track tune-ups for all the clutches and they're never the same. If the clutch doesn't make sense then your probably approaching it the wrong way to begin with or might not have enough experience with clutches. And doing a great 60 with a stock hand clutch doesn't make you a clutch expert, it makes you a very good rider.  :D

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Offline ECS Walter

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2011, 08:41:53 PM »
by the directions i pulled it apart to check the static and they were gone dropped the pan and they were in the pickup not knockin tims stuff at all but i would recomend changing them i know i will they arent that much and if those sprints or pieces got between the crank gear and the clutch gear or trans gears that would have been catastrophic just cheap insurance and i still run it and will continue too

Yes in triangle mode the springs need changed every 20 or so passes, i change mine every 20 passes and tell my customers to do the same.

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Online sportbikeryder

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2011, 06:03:11 PM »
The weight on the arms adds clutch force based on RPM (higher RPM is more force), up to the point that the weights can put enough force on the clutch to leave (this is how a slider clutch operates).

The outer tension springs hold the arms away from contact with the pressure plate, effectively delaying the RPM at which the arms come in.


The most street usable setup for a high HP bike will be to use the stiffest springs under the hat, a moderate amount of weight on the arms (try a bolt, nut, and 2 or 4 washers), and no springs on the arms.

Keep in mind, this may tend to try to pull the clutch out of your hand and make the bike leave if you try to rev the bike really high with the clutch pulled in and the bike in gear.

keep a note of the current setup (including the total stack height of the clutch pack) before you take it apart in case you want to dragrace it.


Walter, Please add to or comment on the above 

John
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Offline ECS Walter

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2011, 05:56:43 PM »
The weight on the arms adds clutch force based on RPM (higher RPM is more force), up to the point that the weights can put enough force on the clutch to leave (this is how a slider clutch operates).

The outer tension springs hold the arms away from contact with the pressure plate, effectively delaying the RPM at which the arms come in.

If your at any RPM you feel it in the lever, the arms are touching the pressure plate. Mostly past 5-6000 anyway. The springs just soften.


The most street usable setup for a high HP bike will be to use the stiffest springs under the hat, a moderate amount of weight on the arms (try a bolt, nut, and 2 or 4 washers), and no springs on the arms.

I usually just take the arm springs off and load it with weight, 6 arms with 7 or so grams is enough for the dyno, it'll work on the street. I don't worry bout the static.



Walter, Please add to or comment on the above 

John

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Offline caddylt1

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2011, 07:10:09 PM »
The info from the last two post in this thread is what I needed to read.  Thanks guys for making it easily understood. 

-Rich
Gen I Turbo/Intercooled
RCC Turbo/MCXpress Intercooler
Fab and Tuned by Williford Racing
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Hays T3 Convertible
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Offline madkawzx14

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2011, 09:30:42 AM »
would those same principles apply to a MTC Gen II?

Offline busaman100

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2011, 01:03:15 AM »
what is a good combo for dyno setup on this. ive read the hays instructions five time and they still are not clear there are 4 sets of compression springs im only guessing here but looking at them the samller ones go under the top hat for (hand clutch/slider) and the strong ones go on the top hat for (full slider) use

does anyone know what weight the different smaller springs are.?

Offline ECS Walter

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2011, 05:18:46 AM »
would those same principles apply to a MTC Gen II?

Kinda, but way different animal. Static is important, stack height very important, arms same principle.

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Offline ECS Walter

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2011, 05:26:33 AM »
what is a good combo for dyno setup on this. ive read the hays instructions five time and they still are not clear there are 4 sets of compression springs im only guessing here but looking at them the samller ones go under the top hat for (hand clutch/slider) and the strong ones go on the top hat for (full slider) use

does anyone know what weight the different smaller springs are.?

The difference is the smaller springs go on the hat for slider mode and the .080 biggest springs are used in hand mode. As i said above, street and dyno setup is the same.

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Offline busaman100

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2011, 05:59:20 AM »
so what are the .92" ones used for like i said i have four sets blue , green , orange and the biger ones at .92"

Offline ECS Walter

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2011, 06:20:12 AM »
.092's must be new, i've only seen orange ones...hmmm?
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Offline caddylt1

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2011, 08:12:13 AM »
I just did the orange springs, no top springs and 6 grams of weight on all 6 arms for street riding and dyno work.  Its grabby. 

And be sure to install the thrust washer in the correct spot on the shaft.  The previous owner of the turbo I just bought installed in incorrectly.  Yeah, so read the manual haha
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Offline timhays

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2011, 01:07:29 PM »
The .091 Compression spring was developed for slider use when we incorporated the additional 3 arms into the new 6 arm model.

The previous springs were not stiff enough to give a smooth engagement in slider mode when using 6 lockup arms.


Offline ECS Walter

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2011, 01:31:04 PM »
The .091 Compression spring was developed for slider use when we incorporated the additional 3 arms into the new 6 arm model.

The previous springs were not stiff enough to give a smooth engagement in slider mode when using 6 lockup arms.



Very nice!
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I paid for it, I built it, I ride it!

Offline busaman100

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2011, 04:32:41 PM »
The .091 Compression spring was developed for slider use when we incorporated the additional 3 arms into the new 6 arm model.

The previous springs were not stiff enough to give a smooth engagement in slider mode when using 6 lockup arms.



thanks tim thats great but you really need to make it clear in the manual or at least have an explanation of what fits and does what otherwise it is sometimes hard to work out unless you are the designer.  not tested it yet but a great looking product  :tu:

Offline Competitive Edge Racing Cylinder Heads

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2011, 07:02:03 PM »
The .091 Compression spring was developed for slider use when we incorporated the additional 3 arms into the new 6 arm model.

The previous springs were not stiff enough to give a smooth engagement in slider mode when using 6 lockup arms.


   :bike:   :bike:   Ummm Tim do i need these springs or r these the ones we first experimented with....... Ive been running 4 heavy springs and two soft with one connecting two arms, Slider mode!!!!! Real consistent, jus nothing Hellafied sixty foots 1.29 1.30 ona full grudge chassis????  :tu:   :tu:
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Offline timhays

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2011, 10:00:35 AM »
Mike,i believe i sent you some .091 and some .100,you stated that the .100 which stalled at 10k was to much for your application.

i have seen guys with gsxr1000 grudge application runinng 1.22-1.25 60 foot time using a variety of tuneups so theres no one thing thats the secret.

if you would like to email me i can provide you with some updated info that may help you.

as always thank you for your support.

Tim

one thing we spoke about before on your usig the nitrous upon launch which is a good thing however i have personally experienced pulling 1.24 60 foot times and pulling out 3 degrees of timing and next pass be a 1.29 60 foot,so i am still curious if your timing has anything to do with your 60 foot times.

later bro hopefully one day i can get back down to FLORIDA.

Offline caddylt1

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2011, 10:34:34 AM »
got my parts today Tim!  Thanks brotha.  Gonna throw this new thrust washer an shims in today.  This thing is beast now that its set up right. 

-Rich
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Offline timhays

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2011, 06:06:04 PM »
Your welcome Rich

Thank You

Offline Kevin Jones

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Re: Hays Clutch Tuning How to step by step please post up
« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2016, 07:01:37 AM »
Just got mine, Tim send me the directions and I looked at his site. There was a thorough blog on tuning this and different configurations but the pictures I cannot seem to open. Does anyone else have this problem? Would like to see some different configurations and things. I have it street set up but looking at working on track tuning. I have the concept of single stack lockup down and can tune pretty good but multi I am still learning.