DYNO CHART 1507's streetbikes

[FASBUS]

 Which one would you rather or think would be faster ? Checkout average hp/torque thru rpm's..

[glenn71]

The blue one,although i,m green seeing that from a streetbike.

[dnhabusa]

First I'd get the chart printed properly, which means corrected. You can't accurately compare those runs uncorrected, 4 years apart and different conditions on each day.

[RACNRAY]

First I'd get the chart printed properly, which means corrected. You can't accurately compare those runs uncorrected, 4 years apart and different conditions on each day.

TRU DAT...
It is truly hilarious and sad at the same time that we continully see dyno charts  like this. There are enuff differences in the weather conditions that will have big influences on power, so these runs should be shown in the SAE cf for some legitamcy.
The conditions are good enuff that the skoots are running in the equivalent of below sea level conditions, so SAE numbers will be lower, not necessarily what some dyno shops want to show.
Big numbers = happy paying customers.

RACNRAY

[FASBUS]

  Im glad I could give you some ammusement this morning Ray...
My whole point in posting was to bring to attention that everyone ALWAYS refers to peak numbers which is not always the fastest/best..
 Im not posting to show anyone I can build power because I know I can & really dont give a shit who thinks its sad...
 I also know that dynojets corrections factors leave alot to be desired & corrected #'s wont coincide either. In order to truly test apples against apples you need to  run/tune on the same day/time..
  The dyno I tune on which has tuninglink in always on the low side & at least 10hp down on other local dynos & if I was trying to blow smoke up anyones ass I
would post those charts after all all the information/weather conditions are right there for you to read so I would appreciate any sad comments be left to one's self..
 Thanks...

[FASBUS]

 Not to mention the 230hp was out of injector/fuel & a/f was out of control on the big end....

[RACNRAY]

It's funny and sad at the same time when someone tells someone else to keep their comments to themselves. You are free to post dyno charts that make it impossible for those of us "in the know" (cause we ARE gonna look at the run conditions) to try to make sense of the power figures and to answer your question.
Yea...the c/factors do have gaps in them but they are FAR more accurate than uncorrected. We ARE gonna analize all of the data you provide, and dyno graphs in corrected form were requested in a previous post. Post these runs in a corrected form, please?

THANX
RACNRAY

[fvance]

FASBUS, good numbers. Get some more fuel to that baby and let us know what happens.

  Fred

[FASBUS]

FASBUS, good numbers. Get some more fuel to that baby and let us know what happens.

  Fred

.... Its being reconfigured to 1535 w/oversized valves & larger camshafts,will post results..

[FASBUS]

It's funny and sad at the same time when someone tells someone else to keep their comments to themselves. You are free to post dyno charts that make it impossible for those of us "in the know" (cause we ARE gonna look at the run conditions) to try to make sense of the power figures and to answer your question.
Yea...the c/factors do have gaps in them but they are FAR more accurate than uncorrected. We ARE gonna analize all of the data you provide, and dyno graphs in corrected form were requested in a previous post. Post these runs in a corrected form, please?

THANX
RACNRAY

Dude its funny & sad how much of a joke & a hater you are...Do us both a favor a never post on a thread of mine , my only point was peak numbers arent the end all. I bet your mother has told you before if you dont have anything positive to say say nothing at all. Internet pissing matches are for pussies & not my style so PLEASE stay off my thread..

[FASBUS]

First I'd get the chart printed properly, which means corrected. You can't accurately compare those runs uncorrected, 4 years apart and different conditions on each day.

I see youre point however other than the time distance apart the conditions of the two do offset each other..I was posting to show the difference of peak power as opposed to average power. No matter what the peak values are was not the point. I appreciate youre subjective opinion with out insult......
 

[glenn71]

Those run conditions are entirely real world for a before lunch pass in autumn or spring over here in Australia.15-20c with low
humidity on a sticky track at 30+ air pressure and the bike will fly.You dont sae correct your drag strip numbers on a good day or a bad day or do you ignore how it flys on a cold night,preferring to only ride in the heat of the day?It clearly states
UNCORRECTED.If the dynos in an area with air that cant be duplicated at
peoples local strip,fair enough,sae numbers would help and allow comparison
to other peoples results on their dynos in lesser air,but,the run conditions are there,so punch them into an sae correction calculator and you can see how it would
run in the air on someone elses dyno or known air quality at your local strip?Average hp beats peak hp every time.

[bigbill1441]

Those run conditions are entirely real world for a before lunch pass in autumn or spring over here in Australia.15-20c with low
humidity on a sticky track at 30+ air pressure and the bike will fly.You dont sae correct your drag strip numbers on a good day or a bad day or do you ignore how it flys on a cold night,preferring to only ride in the heat of the day?It clearly states
UNCORRECTED.If the dynos in an area with air that cant be duplicated at
peoples local strip,fair enough,sae numbers would help and allow comparison
to other peoples results on their dynos in lesser air,but,the run conditions are there,so punch them into an sae correction calculator and you can see how it would
run in the air on someone elses dyno or known air quality at your local strip?Average hp beats peak hp every time.

[sportbikeryder]

Well, what numbers did each run at the track and at what weight?

[FASBUS]

Well, what numbers did each run at the track and at what weight?

 ....... Dont forget to calculate in the 20mph headwind..

[sportbikeryder]

Well, what numbers did each run at the track and at what weight?

 ....... Dont forget to calculate in the 20mph headwind..

???

[FASBUS]

Well, what numbers did each run at the track and at what weight?

 ....... Dont forget to calculate in the 20mph headwind..

???

I thought that was a joke..Bikes were setup for top end .Glenn71 was making a point w/dragrace reference...

[glenn71]

Horsepower calculators work quite well ive found.Your mph at a given weight can reveal very close to and sometimes a slightly greater horsepower number than an honest dyno reads.Ive used them for a while and can indicate how much power a bike can pick up in good air.At 685lbs i bested 158.6mph which worked out around 212hp for my 1441 which is almost exactly what i got.

[FASBUS]

 Oh yeah these were with pump gas also.......

[ACE23]

I would be much more interested if it was a thread about a 1507 that could live on the street and take a hard ass beating and was reliable. I think the only 1507 I have ever read about was dave owens bike and it only had 5K miles on the build at the time I believe. Anyway it would be pretty awesome to have streetable 230-250HP pump gas all motor busas if possible

[FASBUS]

I would be much more interested if it was a thread about a 1507 that could live on the street and take a hard ass beating and was reliable. I think the only 1507 I have ever read about was dave owens bike and it only had 5K miles on the build at the time I believe. Anyway it would be pretty awesome to have streetable 230-250HP pump gas all motor busas if possible

 
 I considered Dave a friend & very knowledgeable engine builder that shared trade secrets on building streetable/reliable stroker engines on many occasions. You dont have to assume that all stroker engines are not reliable because thats not always the case. My engines have lasted & proven themselves , however even Daves engine was torn down & gone through to freshen up bearings etc after so many run/miles. It is possible to have reliability w/routine maintenence...

[FASBUS]

I would be much more interested if it was a thread about a 1507 that could live on the street and take a hard ass beating and was reliable. I think the only 1507 I have ever read about was dave owens bike and it only had 5K miles on the build at the time I believe. Anyway it would be pretty awesome to have streetable 230-250HP pump gas all motor busas if possible

 
 I considered Dave a friend & very knowledgeable engine builder that shared trade secrets on building streetable/reliable stroker engines on many occasions. You dont have to assume that all stroker engines are not reliable because thats not always the case. My engines have lasted & proven themselves , however even Daves engine was torn down & gone through to freshen up bearings etc after so many run/miles. It is possible to have reliability w/routine maintenence...

 All good brother Im not that insecure....

My reference to Steve was not meant as disrespect to you.  The only reason I mentioned him is that he use to work for Carpenter before starting his own operation and have built hundreds of strokers over the years with results most board members are familiar with.  There are very few builders that have as much experience with strokers as he does.

[FASBUS]

 All good brother Im not that insecure.....

[ACE23]

I would be much more interested if it was a thread about a 1507 that could live on the street and take a hard ass beating and was reliable. I think the only 1507 I have ever read about was dave owens bike and it only had 5K miles on the build at the time I believe. Anyway it would be pretty awesome to have streetable 230-250HP pump gas all motor busas if possible

 
 I considered Dave a friend & very knowledgeable engine builder that shared trade secrets on building streetable/reliable stroker engines on many occasions. You dont have to assume that all stroker engines are not reliable because thats not always the case. My engines have lasted & proven themselves , however even Daves engine was torn down & gone through to freshen up bearings etc after so many run/miles. It is possible to have reliability w/routine maintenence...

Yeah I understand that it can be done. Just not sure how I would feel about having to pay someone to remove and freshen up the engine every X amount of miles. Guess that's why I have a turbo.... But all motor is cool I think

[FASBUS]

  Whether turbo or all motor you need to do some scheduled maintenence..I actually prefer all motor over turbo for longevity , I know quite a few people that got away from turbos because of melted pistons & other issues.Motor big cams,high compression are worst longevity issues..Turbo,nice low compression crusing,small cams however lots of other engine management going on than factory ecu,injectors,pump.. As soon as something goes aray & you loose fuel or detonate from to much cylinder pressure ,boom your done...I believe above everything else you need to set your shit up right whether turbo or motor & youll have a chance...
  I love a 380hp turbo on pump gas....   But ya gotta remember there are only two kinds of motors out there, ones that have blown up & ones that are gonna blow up...            i.m.h.o

[ACE23]

  Whether turbo or all motor you need to do some scheduled maintenence..I actually prefer all motor over turbo for longevity , I know quite a few people that got away from turbos because of melted pistons & other issues.Motor big cams,high compression are worst longevity issues..Turbo,nice low compression crusing,small cams however lots of other engine management going on than factory ecu,injectors,pump.. As soon as something goes aray & you loose fuel or detonate from to much cylinder pressure ,boom your done...I believe above everything else you need to set your shit up right whether turbo or motor & youll have a chance...
  I love a 380hp turbo on pump gas....   But ya gotta remember there are only two kinds of motors out there, ones that have blown up & ones that are gonna blow up...            i.m.h.o

yeah all very good points....I would like to have a 1441 to play on for the street

[glenn71]

1441 are a nice strong streetbike,i wouldnt say they give the adrenaline rush
a turbo would,but you can drive out of corners pretty hard with them and the bikes
external appearance and sound appears stock once youve tuned it precisely.For instant grunt down low id keep the cams dialled pretty low or you,ll be waiting for the
torque hit till around 5500.

[fvance]

Jusy dont ever let it get under 5500.

[Pat Dietrich]

Horsepower calculators work quite well ive found.Your mph at a given weight can reveal very close to and sometimes a slightly greater horsepower number than an honest dyno reads.Ive used them for a while and can indicate how much power a bike can pick up in good air.At 685lbs i bested 158.6mph which worked out around 212hp for my 1441 which is almost exactly what i got.

Do my old one on your calculater. 708#s  and ran 160.46 as a best mph. At Norwalk and weighed at Norwalk that day. Dyno said 209.

[FASBUS]

1441 are a nice strong streetbike,i wouldnt say they give the adrenaline rush
a turbo would,but you can drive out of corners pretty hard with them and the bikes
external appearance and sound appears stock once youve tuned it precisely.For instant grunt down low id keep the cams dialled pretty low or you,ll be waiting for the
torque hit till around 5500.

  In my opinion when you get to 1507 or larger its  not a bad idea to use larger camshafts (.415/.395 or larger at times)as the low/mid torque is RIGHT NOW huge....Larger cams will give you more up top & make that low/mid torque manageable..Its hard to just work the clutch to get out the hole when your making 100ft.lbs @3k rpm and 130 to 138 at peak..Highest average power is where its at , but at a drag race you will only be able to use so much when launching in first gear.
 Its all about combinations & application...Both of these bikes have .415/.395 & the 1441 in the other post has .395/.378 partially to the owners heavy weight & part only 2mm stroke.i.m.o.

[FASBUS]

Jusy dont ever let it get under 5500.

I imagine your talking about not letting the turbo get below 5500 ? Another thing I can tell you in a roll on from 2nd gear if a mildly built turbo that makes 260-280hp races one of these strokers for a mile or so the instant torque response of the stroke will take a HUGE lead over the turbo & many times there will not be enough room to catch up. However if you build a turbo like your supposed to & you make 375-400 on pump gas it would be no contest,TURBO wins hans down.

[glenn71]

100ft/lbs at 3000,you shittin me or what.4000 i believe but 3000?bottom end torque
that keeps building is the best riding experience IMO.The dodge viper of motorbikes.The beauty of a big cc busa or even a small turboed one is how it can
haul the mail and stay under 6000 not attracting attention and then your gooone.
those 250,s with a pipe always make me laugh,you can hear them coming and going
and yet their too slow to keep out of trouble.lol

[FASBUS]

 I have seen100ft.lbs. @3k...

[surprenant]

Well a turbo in my opinion will walk away from those build motors all day long......you never owned one right????I have been there andthere is absolutely no comparaison.............turbo starts easy,don't overheat,stay alive .......cost less on the long run......and you were talking about 1 mile!!!Damn...it would be hard to see ya in the mirrors.Should speak about what you know..not what you think or heard.......i had ,stock bore,2mil,3mil,4mil,5mil stroker with 4mil,10.5mil stoker with a 4 mil....so i think i know...the difference.You just cannot compare either......very different .

[FASBUS]

Well a turbo in my opinion will walk away from those build motors all day long......you never owned one right????I have been there andthere is absolutely no comparaison.............turbo starts easy,don't overheat,stay alive .......cost less on the long run......and you were talking about 1 mile!!!Damn...it would be hard to see ya in the mirrors.Should speak about what you know..not what you think or heard.......i had ,stock bore,2mil,3mil,4mil,5mil stroker with 4mil,10.5mil stoker with a 4 mil....so i think i know...the difference.You just cannot compare either......very different .

Whatever , I would not comment on what Ive heard & I have raced many stage one turbos & handed them there ass in rollons from 2nd. I love turbos myself
but they have to make big power to overcome that 2 or 3 second lag from a rollon. The ultimate street bike would be 380-400hp on pump & no all motor bike will ever hang with that, I was commenting on stage one turbos..
 If you dont agree we can agree to disagree , I am commenting on my experience racing stage 1 turbos from a roll.
 Yes low compression , small cams are great for starting,crusing in traffic etc. They both have  issues you have to deal with to make them reliable.

[gnd111]

755#s and 154mph every pass.  Dyno said 194rwhp

[surprenant]

Don't agree with you at all......even with a stage one...once properly tuned they spool real quick and as low as 4000rpm....and make 280on pump gas........3seconds to spool?????Well you musted meet some that were home tuned or whatever cause you better be on your game on a roll even againts a turbo.If for one moment i would think a motor would even be close to a turbo....both done right....why even bother then.Look at all the top speed contest.....do you see anything close to a turbo???in 1 mile..or 5 mile.....nothing.....even built motors with nos............turbo's are simply in a class by themselves.....you can do whatever you want with them these days....not the old MR TURBO junk.

[FASBUS]

SHOYARIGHT, All out turbos can not be matched as I already stated..
 I would not build a 250-280hp turbo , have to go 380-400 on pump.
 Thanks for your opinion though....

[glenn71]

Id run any stock length turbo bike in the 1/4 with an all motor bike.I agree if your
going to build a turbo bike,you have to build the motor around the turbo,gearbased
boost levels etc or i wouldnt bother,that way you can enjoy the dominant performance in 6th gear but still have it useable in the lower gears.

[ACE23]

Don't agree with you at all......even with a stage one...once properly tuned they spool real quick and as low as 4000rpm....and make 280on pump gas........3seconds to spool?????Well you musted meet some that were home tuned or whatever cause you better be on your game on a roll even againts a turbo.If for one moment i would think a motor would even be close to a turbo....both done right....why even bother then.Look at all the top speed contest.....do you see anything close to a turbo???in 1 mile..or 5 mile.....nothing.....even built motors with nos............turbo's are simply in a class by themselves.....you can do whatever you want with them these days....not the old MR TURBO junk.

Well I haven't owned the big CC all motor busa but I do currently own a 400HP pump gas turbo. Of course I run a large turbo but my bike doesn't hit like a bomb until 7500K. Between the seat time you need to learn how to ride the turbo, the traction problems, lag on the street and overall weight.....from personal expierence its hard to catch any thing built all motor much less with spray. Of course I get them but its not until 160mph or so that I pass them like they aren't moving. Even if I did a 3rd gear roll from 7K everything has to be just right not to blow the tire off. If I dont' get into boost right when i need to, blow the tire off, ect....then the other bike is gone. Those damn 1000's with 150lb guys on them will absolutely murder you doing rollons

[FASBUS]

[/quote] Well I haven't owned the big CC all motor busa but I do currently own a 400HP pump gas turbo. Of course I run a large turbo but my bike doesn't hit like a bomb until 7500K. Between the seat time you need to learn how to ride the turbo, the traction problems, lag on the street and overall weight.....from personal expierence its hard to catch any thing built all motor much less with spray. Of course I get them but its not until 160mph or so that I pass them like they aren't moving. Even if I did a 3rd gear roll from 7K everything has to be just right not to blow the tire off. If I dont' get into boost right when i need to, blow the tire off, ect....then the other bike is gone. Those damn 1000's with 150lb guys on them will absolutely murder you doing rollons
[/quote]
 YOU SOUND LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKIN ABOUT.......
 I use to ride/race Rob Heads bike for him & when it was running its best it was 1397 with velocity race kit(customer service sucked i.m.o. ). 380pump.
 Experience I could not put into words , having to modulate the throttle to give it everything it could put down (19/38gring) bike twisting until the last 1500rpm's in 6th where the bike straightened out & I pinned it , the bike instantly spanked the rev limiter...No data logging but I suspect wheelspin at over 220-230.Was an experience.
 I am 230lbs & them little light fuckers on 1ks & Busa was why I always built mine , fuckers will squirt out on you before you can say boost..
 I have plenty experience & know there are steps you have to take to keep motor/turbo alive. I love a big allmotor & a turbo such as yours..
 Big motor is instantaneous torque & properly built high hp turbo has mega torque/hp just takes a second or to to get it.Period.

[FASBUS]

Id run any stock length turbo bike in the 1/4 with an all motor bike.I agree if your
going to build a turbo bike,you have to build the motor around the turbo,gearbased
boost levels etc or i wouldnt bother,that way you can enjoy the dominant performance in 6th gear but still have it useable in the lower gears.

Yup thats the only way to get them down the track & use the power.

[ACE23]

Well I haven't owned the big CC all motor busa but I do currently own a 400HP pump gas turbo. Of course I run a large turbo but my bike doesn't hit like a bomb until 7500K. Between the seat time you need to learn how to ride the turbo, the traction problems, lag on the street and overall weight.....from personal expierence its hard to catch any thing built all motor much less with spray. Of course I get them but its not until 160mph or so that I pass them like they aren't moving. Even if I did a 3rd gear roll from 7K everything has to be just right not to blow the tire off. If I dont' get into boost right when i need to, blow the tire off, ect....then the other bike is gone. Those damn 1000's with 150lb guys on them will absolutely murder you doing rollons
[/quote]
 YOU SOUND LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKIN ABOUT.......
 I use to ride/race Rob Heads bike for him & when it was running its best it was 1397 with velocity race kit(customer service sucked i.m.o. ). 380pump.
 Experience I could not put into words , having to modulate the throttle to give it everything it could put down (19/38gring) bike twisting until the last 1500rpm's in 6th where the bike straightened out & I pinned it , the bike instantly spanked the rev limiter...No data logging but I suspect wheelspin at over 220-230.Was an experience.
 I am 230lbs & them little light fuckers on 1ks & Busa was why I always built mine , fuckers will squirt out on you before you can say boost..
 I have plenty experience & know there are steps you have to take to keep motor/turbo alive. I love a big allmotor & a turbo such as yours..
 Big motor is instantaneous torque & properly built high hp turbo has mega torque/hp just takes a second or to to get it.Period.
[/quote] yeah it's not to hard to figure out once you actually ride one.... big hp Turbos on the street make lots of noise ....haul ass...and spin. Mine slammed and 6 over with a 240 tire on 14lb will light up the tire in 5th. No doubt the turbo Is the way to go it just takes some time to figure it out. I've seen to 175lb guys race...one on a stock wheelbase 310hp turbo busa and the other on a stock wheelbase 07 gsxr1000 with an exhaust, tune and filter....doing a 50 mph Rollin that buds didn't catch the 1000 till 150

[GSXRTURBO1]

It's mostly rider, and in the case of high HP turbo bikes it's also the suspension.

All the power in the world does you no good if you can't put it down to the pavement. A properly set up high HP turbo bike with a good shock set up correctly would walk on a n/a bike in short order... much, much sooner than a turbo bike with stock shock/suspension that isn't set up well. Any wheelspin is lost power that could of been used to propel the bike forward, which is why some n/a bikes do so well in roll-ons.

[surprenant]

That i agree on!It is not just a matter of boltin on a turbo.....if you got more hp and know how to set it up accordingly..well the outcome will show it...... :thumb:hp is hp......but i think we can all agree that 500hp using turbo...will outlast a motor nos 500hp bike for sure.Yes it takes a while sometimesto figure them out and how to maintain them and what is needed to make them live but the more hp the more careful and meticulus you gotta be......

Imagine if there was as many 280hp all motor bikes running around in traffic and pump gas .......as 280hp turbo's.....damn.....it would be ugly..

[GSXRTURBO1]

true... part of the reason is that the effect on a forced air engine compared to a naturally aspirated engine is very different as far as pressure on pistons at certain crank angles, etc.

I cannot recall the specifics, but I was talking with a Chrysler engineer friend that commented that a turbo engine sees pressure for 130 degrees of crank rotation or something to that effect, whereas a naturally aspirated engine would only see that pressure for 90 degrees or so of crank rotation. Also, if I remember correctly, the power part of the combustion sequence sees the crank angle at a more desired position than a n/a engine does... think of it as better leverage.

Peak cylinder pressures can be comparable between a forced air and nitrous engine, but the nitrous engine will have much quicker pressure spikes and does not have the "cushion" that a forced air engine has.

I wish I could remember the specifics better, but I tried to explain it best that I could. Bottom line is a turbo engine is more forgiving in nature than a nitrous engine is at similar HP levels. I wish it weren't so, but it is. I'm much more a fan of a stout n/a Hayabusa compared to a turbo Busa, but I love both approaches (I just like one approach a little better)