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Author Topic: Shift Drum Mods  (Read 14525 times)

Offline sportbikeryder

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Shift Drum Mods
« on: April 25, 2010, 12:51:37 PM »
What mods are those with high horsepower high gear shifting issues doing to the shift drums? We have a nitrous bike that we want to turn up, but can't get it to shift into high gear under power consistently. The trans is cut and has solid shift shafts. The drum is stock.

John
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.392, 176.79mph 1/8th mile  6.610, 228.15mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline GSXRTURBO1

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2010, 02:06:36 PM »
I know there's a "nitrous" cut that R&D does, but I don't know what it entails.  :?
Thomas

Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2010, 02:15:53 PM »
Yeah, he is going to call R&D on Monday. Just wondered what it actuall is that gets done to the drum?
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.392, 176.79mph 1/8th mile  6.610, 228.15mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline TrickTom1

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2010, 03:48:39 PM »
stock here

Offline dave3.4

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2010, 05:12:33 PM »
R&D did  something to my drum but  I honestly can't tell by looking at what they did.

Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2010, 05:57:23 PM »
R&D did  something to my drum but  I honestly can't tell by looking at what they did.

Seems to be the concensus across the board...send it to R&D, but no one can see what they did....maybe he ust cleans it and sends it back :-)
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.392, 176.79mph 1/8th mile  6.610, 228.15mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline dave3.4

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2010, 06:22:59 PM »
Yeah I think your right .It's a hidden secret  :D   hidden secret/ degreaser

Offline gsxrdan

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2010, 06:56:29 PM »
My 1143 would not even thing about shifting until I had an R&D transmission.Great people to deal also.Make sure to upgrade to the billet output shaft.Thant was my big mistake not to listen and get one in the first place.I needed my trans asap he stayed late to finish it so i could get it for my next race,and no extra charge.What else can you say?? :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Offline Stocker64

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2010, 07:11:06 PM »
gixx1300r knows... :thumb:
09 BUSA, PROBLEMCHILD II.... tuned with the factory ecu by ME!! thanks PETRIK, ridgeracer,and SMITHBUSA. ...  "FAMILY FIRST"...

Offline dave3.4

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2010, 07:24:14 PM »
I'm not knocking r&d  by any means . I  havent missed one shift since they did my trans :thumb: I was only saying that I have no freaking clue what they do to shift drums
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 09:48:43 PM by dave3.4 »

Offline Coryonbusa

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2010, 07:58:16 PM »
Yeah I think your right .It's a hidden secret  :D   hidden secret/ degreaser


 :hys: :thumb:

Offline Canadian Mike

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2010, 08:57:24 PM »
call paul at fast by gast.........

Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2010, 09:21:13 PM »
call paul at fast by gast.........

fbg actually did the trans cutting on this bike. Never mentioned or suggested drum modifications at all though...
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.392, 176.79mph 1/8th mile  6.610, 228.15mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline Rice Ya

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2010, 10:34:13 PM »
Been told R&D won't do the drums anymore unless they do the tranny too.
They did my drum several years ago and I couldn't tell what they did to it either.
Untill you give it everything you've got, you won't know if you got what it takes. Dave Schultz

Offline dragzooks@indy

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2010, 08:42:55 PM »
look very closely along one of the grooves the shift fork's peg slides in (cant remember which one he does) and at a certain spot you can see where an end mill has just widened the slot at that point by maybe .100" so the gear can slide over a little more and the dogs make full engagement (you'll see swirly machine marks just barely)

i think the drum mod is a blueprinting type thing so a certain sliding gear can make it all the way over and not bend the shift fork like a backcut tranny could do if the angles on the dogs really pulled hard under load and the fork is limited in moving sideways by the width of the slot cut at that point

nitrous cut is rounding the backside of the dogs so if the bike spins the tire (trans speeds up from inertia, overruns the rear wheel speed, and pegs the downshift side of the next dog)....instead it will "ratchet" so to say (instead of sticking to the factory slight backcut or even straightcut on the next dog)...then it can disengage even under load and go to the next gear

the way robinson and fbg do it, if requested, is mill off every other dog on the high gear set (slider gear on input shaft and its adjacent engaging gear on both side) so as to open a larger "window of engagement" for the higher gear changes contolled by that single fork on the input shaft

its hard to understand unless you really know how these constant mesh motorcycle tranys work and exactly what backcutting is and what i mean by pegging the downshift side (with no chain and a bike in gear think of the little bit of rotation you can get from the countershaft sprocket back and forth....)

look at robinsons website at what auto gear look like too and it will help understand it (ramps)
theres some tricky stuff that can be done to these trannys....read prostars rule book about illegal trannys.....windowed drums, split gears, overdriving, spring loading the gears

Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2010, 09:08:57 PM »
look very closely along one of the grooves the shift fork's peg slides in (cant remember which one he does) and at a certain spot you can see where an end mill has just widened the slot at that point by maybe .100" so the gear can slide over a little more and the dogs make full engagement (you'll see swirly machine marks just barely)

i think the drum mod is a blueprinting type thing so a certain sliding gear can make it all the way over and not bend the shift fork like a backcut tranny could do if the angles on the dogs really pulled hard under load and the fork is limited in moving sideways by the width of the slot cut at that point

nitrous cut is rounding the backside of the dogs so if the bike spins the tire (trans speeds up from inertia, overruns the rear wheel speed, and pegs the downshift side of the next dog)....instead it will "ratchet" so to say (instead of sticking to the factory slight backcut or even straightcut on the next dog)...then it can disengage even under load and go to the next gear

the way robinson and fbg do it, if requested, is mill off every other dog on the high gear set (slider gear on input shaft and its adjacent engaging gear on both side) so as to open a larger "window of engagement" for the higher gear changes contolled by that single fork on the input shaft

its hard to understand unless you really know how these constant mesh motorcycle tranys work and exactly what backcutting is and what i mean by pegging the downshift side (with no chain and a bike in gear think of the little bit of rotation you can get from the countershaft sprocket back and forth....)

look at robinsons website at what auto gear look like too and it will help understand it (ramps)
theres some tricky stuff that can be done to these trannys....read prostars rule book about illegal trannys.....windowed drums, split gears, overdriving, spring loading the gears

 :thumb: the bike owner is getting a nitrous cut trans and drum od done. Will check it out when it comes back.
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.392, 176.79mph 1/8th mile  6.610, 228.15mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline hayaboosta

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2010, 03:12:25 AM »
Here is a side by side comparison of an OEM drum and a Nitrous cut done by Mark at R&D Motorsports.  Both of these mods are done to the 3/4 fork (input shaft) groove.  I have been dealing with Mark for 20 years and you CANNOT go wrong with Mark, he is the most honest m/c business man I have delt with, there is no BS. 
Bonneville  200 MPH Club Naked    AMA/Bub    201 MPH Club
El Mirage   200 MPH Club Naked    Texas         200 MPH Club
Maxton      200 MPH Club Naked   
Loring        200 MPH Club Naked   
Mojave       200 MPH Club Naked  Best 246 Naked 240 Clothed

Offline Competitive Edge Racing Cylinder Heads

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2010, 07:42:36 AM »
Here is a side by side comparison of an OEM drum and a Nitrous cut done by Mark at R&D Motorsports.  Both of these mods are done to the 3/4 fork (input shaft) groove.  I have been dealing with Mark for 20 years and you CANNOT go wrong with Mark, he is the most honest m/c business man I have delt with, there is no BS. 

          :thumb:    :thumb:    Thanxs!!!!!!!    :thumb:     :thumb:
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Offline dragzooks@indy

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2010, 11:05:37 AM »
exactly what i was saying
in the bottom pic you can see the fork can now move a little more along the shift shaft which pushes it closer into its mating gear
the top pic he has put a big radius on the bottom portion of the groove to smooth movement around that sharp peak (which is a stop for gear change of course) and possibly to start the engagement a bit sooner.  the drum is a cam

hayaboosta------post up some closeups of the dogs on a nitrous cut trans showing these guys how that works
thats the part of the "nitrous cuttting mod" that really matters

and rice, you really shouldnt mix a drum modded like that with a trans not cut by him to work with it, as he has to cut the slots/dogs for that little extra movement in the bottom pic or they hang up on a lip thats there from the factory

Offline Grumpy 69

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2010, 02:59:54 PM »
great info and pics  :thumb:
not enough bullets to get em all.......but I can try......

Offline hayaboosta

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2010, 09:04:27 PM »
5th gear output pictured.  Standard undercut on the left "Pro/Nitrous" cut on right.  Slightly difficult to see in the photo but the race cut dog is much smaller than the pro cut in length.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 09:13:43 PM by hayaboosta »
Bonneville  200 MPH Club Naked    AMA/Bub    201 MPH Club
El Mirage   200 MPH Club Naked    Texas         200 MPH Club
Maxton      200 MPH Club Naked   
Loring        200 MPH Club Naked   
Mojave       200 MPH Club Naked  Best 246 Naked 240 Clothed

Offline hayaboosta

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2010, 09:18:24 PM »
Sorry, the left pic was taken closer to the gear and it distorts size a bit.  Again, standard race cut on left, pro/nitrous on right.  Notice the tapered angle machined in the pro/nitrous gear. 
Bonneville  200 MPH Club Naked    AMA/Bub    201 MPH Club
El Mirage   200 MPH Club Naked    Texas         200 MPH Club
Maxton      200 MPH Club Naked   
Loring        200 MPH Club Naked   
Mojave       200 MPH Club Naked  Best 246 Naked 240 Clothed

Offline dragzooks@indy

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2010, 10:13:41 PM »
exactly,
the bottom right pic is what i was trying explain in that if you blow the tire away it oversppeds the trans and will "ratchet" to the next dog along that "ramp" now machined and can have another chance to slide into enagement instead of either pinning against the downshift loaded side of the dogs or simply banging dog face to face cause its running out of "sync" cause the inertia of the fast rear wheel spin up

i have been knowing mark bout as long too and he can word/explain it alot better, thats just the only way i know to explain it.... i saw it in my mind and in person when the tranny came back when he first told me about it but putting it to words is harder

ive been using mark since B4 the first shootout in bowling green but honestly i have had better luck with tire spin and still shifting by opening up the "window of engagement" by cutting off the two opposing dogs on the input slider and both adjacent gears like gast and robinson do

i know it loads all the horsepower on to 2 dogs instead of 4 but robinson said it was plenty strong unless the gear had been cut back too many times (decreasing the dog width drastically) and ive had 350hp so far to several done that way and never broke....

i personally dont know exactly what cut/set-up the big 500+hp turbo prostreet bikes are running....mark one time told me theres more stuff thats really "pushing the rules" that can be done...trick stuff

« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 10:17:22 PM by dragzooks@indy »

Offline Gixx1525R

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2010, 06:19:54 AM »





Offline dragzooks@indy

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Re: Shift Drum Mods
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2010, 01:14:34 PM »
nice machine work lightening everything, very symmetrical, especially like the countersinks on the drum hole, although the holes in the gears might need slight chamfering to stop stress risers and resultant cracks more than the non stressed drum (gear holes probably are... just cant see it in pics?)
other than the factory detent star, i dont see anything that would aid in shifting, much less make drastic differences in shifting (semi auto or the such)
and to make sure its taken right, no offense meant :thumb:
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 01:21:51 PM by dragzooks@indy »