2 stages of nitrous

[Bim28]

Is anybody running two stages of nitrous out there?  How is it set up in the airbox?  I'm looking for ideas.  Thanks in advance.

[jblankenship]

look there. I was using there real street bar and it worked great

[Busashot]

I used 2 seperate nitrous setups as 2 stages. It was really for hiding one and appearing to remove the other before a money race. The sleeper setup utilizes a RiceYa plate with a 20hp shot and a 9oz. bottle hidden away. When I use both, I use an additional 30hp shot in the airbox at the end of the ram-air tubes.

[jblankenship]

you can do the same thing all off of one spray bar.

[Bim28]

I have a single spray bar now. I just wanted to figure out the best way to do it.  I have the controller to run 2 stages now.  Has anybody tried the dual stage spraybar?  I'm trying to start with a small shot and bring in a bigger shot for the 2nd stage.

[jblankenship]

I used the real street spray bar. Honestly one big stage on a progressive box is easier to get dialed in than 2 stages. You can also make one big stage on the mini act like 2 stages.

For example if you had 100. You could spray 30% for the first second, than after a second progress from 30% to 100% over 2 more seconds.

[SRADkneedragger]

OK not really sure which direction this is going (sneaker system or controllable spray) but I think i can cover both bases for you guys here.

For those who might not know I land speed race an '04 Busa. I was picked up by Nitrous Express
http://nitrousexpress.com/index.php
 last year and they hooked me up with a 100HP wet system and a digital progressive controller.

The digital controller controls the %age of total HP that the system uses when it is activated. So keeping the numbers easy, if your jetted for 100hp and you set the digital controller for say 50% then when it is activated the system flutters the solenoids and only allows 1/2 of the total fuel and nitrous volume through. Next the digital controller has a setting to allow for how long it takes to ramp up to 100% of the jetted volume. So you can set up for the nitrous to come on at say 25hp and take 3 seconds to reach 100hp. I have run it at 50hp start and ramp to 100hp in 1.5 seconds without problems or blowing off the tire. So if your looking to set up a system that is big hp but doesn't blow off the tire this is the way to do it.

Now you guys are talking about "Sneaker" systems.
After runing at the Texas Mile last October I discovered I was having volume problems. A 2.5lb bottle on the HeavyBus wasn't enough due to the fact that I was using about 1.5lbs per run! I was losing bottle pressure due to dumping 65% of my volume and of course temp drop from dumping so fast. The solution, per Scott Guthrie, "Add more volume". So I went with the Tiger Racing undertail mount and a 2 lb bottle.
http://www.1st-to-the-finish-line.com/products/Descriptions/THH-13.html

The Nitrous Express Solenoids have a Purge port on the side and this is also usable as a secondary input into the system.

This almost doubles my volume. Now IF I were to be of the mindset to sneak a shot in on a race(I don't street race) I could simply remove the 2.5lb bottle from the swingarm and cap the hose(#4 jic I think) and the system would run off of the 2lb bottle under the seat no sweat! More than enough for a few drag passes. Just a thought. I realize the dry systems are much cheaper and simpler but wet systems are much safer for your engine. Godd luck

M

[SPARKY1397R]

I realize the dry systems are much cheaper and simpler but wet systems are much safer for your engine. Godd luck

M

why?

[Gixx1525R]

I realize the dry systems are much cheaper and simpler but wet systems are much safer for your engine. Godd luck

M

That is far from incorrect

[SRADkneedragger]

Quick down and dirty Nitrous lesson.
Nitrous works 2 ways.
#1 by super cooling the air fuel charge, which in turn also makes it more dense. So getting more air and fuel into the cylinder = more power.
#2 When nitrous is compressed in the cylinder it releases another Oxygen molecule. Adding oxygen to the cylinder means it will lean out. Lean is fast right up to where an engine seizes . So while adding more oxygen = more power, it also will lean you out to the point of damage. Solution? Add fuel. With dry systems, there is a small window as to the amount of Nitrous your can add with out the AFR(Air Fuel Ratio) going completely out the window. Don't ask I don't know. So most "Dry" Systems suggest that you run way rich which will keep you closer to the perfect AFR.

Maybe I should back up a little. There is a "perfect" AFR this is called Stoichiometric (SP?), it's around 14 to 1 AFR. Now real world numbers are a little lower maybe 13.5 to 1 or so. So you want the most power you can get without running to lean and risking seizing the motor. Turbo's Blowers and Nitrous all work on the same princepal, if you can get more air/fuel into the motor you can get more power. Turbo's and Superchargers do it by mechanically forcing the air/fuel in.
Nitrous works differently by adding oxygen( think accyletene. It burns, but you add oxygen and it burn so hot it will cut steel) Nitrous gives up alot of oxygen in the combustion chamber, too much oxygen, so AFR would go way out of sight, unless, you added more fuel.

OK now back to wet or dry. With a dry system you are adding an oxydizer (think of the torch again) which allows stuff to burn, but there isn't enough fuel then you can go way lean temps spike out and the engine is hurt. So you need to add fuel to keep near stoichiometric. With a dry system, how do you know how much to add? The Manufactuer should give you an idea. But then your either running rich all of the time or your spending the $$$ for a set up that lets you change maps on the fly.
With a wet system you are adding nitrous AND FUEL, so the chance that your AFR is going to stay near perfect is better. You have one jet/fogger adding fuel and one adding nitrous at a pre-determined rate.
So thats the story. Also back to the original question about dual stage, why bother when a good controller can do the same thing quicker easier and with infinite adjustability?
M

[SPARKY1397R]

tuning dry is really easy(and you still have to tune a wet system,  those fuel jets are just a guesstimate too). 

if your dry noid fails no nitrous enters the engine,  no problem.

if your wet system has a fuel noid failure you just blew your engine, if your secondary fuel pump fails you just blew your engine.  there is way more that can go wrong with a wet system.   

[sportbikeryder]

"dry" and "wet" are really the same thing....just different methods of adding fuel.   If a system had a completely different set of fuel injectors and an external ecu controlling them along with the nitrous, woudl that be "dry" or "wet"?

As far as tuning, a wise man once stated something along the lines of....tune fat and happy and live to race another day.

If you want more power, just add more nitrous to an overly rich mixture and there you go (provided the system will flow enough...)  If there is a jet size restriction or something, then tuning for the most power per jet size is important. If not, just add more nitrous (and fuel).

Baclk to the topic, we have a three stage system setup with 2 noids and two box foggers. 1st stage is "a", sedons stage is "b" third stage is "a+b".  Works pretty well, although, I like the pulsed controllers better.

[SRADkneedragger]

Baclk to the topic, we have a three stage system setup with 2 noids and two box foggers. 1st stage is "a", sedons stage is "b" third stage is "a+b".  Works pretty well, although, I like the pulsed controllers better.

So how is it activated? Is it USB hub or manual or?

M

[Bim28]

Baclk to the topic, we have a three stage system setup with 2 noids and two box foggers. 1st stage is "a", sedons stage is "b" third stage is "a+b".  Works pretty well, although, I like the pulsed controllers better.
[/quote]

Is it possible to get a pic of you airbox? That sounds like a nice set up.

[sportbikeryder]

The airbox just has two foggers in it. Nothing special there. The solenoids are operated by a modified gear position sensor. This forces the use of a tre instead of gear based mapping though. Could be operated with an old school shift counter I suppose, if you use an airshifter. That woudl only work on upshift.

[sportbikeryder]

If the usb hub has two oututs and they can be programmed based on gear position, then it could be done that way as well.

[Bim28]

Thanks for the info guys.  I'm going to go with the real street spray bar.  Just wanted to get some ideas.

[drew.brantley]

OK not really sure which direction this is going (sneaker system or controllable spray) but I think i can cover both bases for you guys here.

For those who might not know I land speed race an '04 Busa. I was picked up by Nitrous Express
http://nitrousexpress.com/index.php
 last year and they hooked me up with a 100HP wet system and a digital progressive controller.

The digital controller controls the %age of total HP that the system uses when it is activated. So keeping the numbers easy, if your jetted for 100hp and you set the digital controller for say 50% then when it is activated the system flutters the solenoids and only allows 1/2 of the total fuel and nitrous volume through. Next the digital controller has a setting to allow for how long it takes to ramp up to 100% of the jetted volume. So you can set up for the nitrous to come on at say 25hp and take 3 seconds to reach 100hp. I have run it at 50hp start and ramp to 100hp in 1.5 seconds without problems or blowing off the tire. So if your looking to set up a system that is big hp but doesn't blow off the tire this is the way to do it.

If I were to run run the NX wet system 100hp with a progressive controller what would be the easiest way to hook in a second, starter button controlled 50hp shot? How would you activate the progressive shot?
Im in the process of building a gen2 1441 and want to run both the progressive for the track with the 50 for extra ooomph on the big end/playing on the street. But I only want to go with a 4 nozzle bar so Im having a hard time picturing this in my head.