Spraybars

[Ghostg]

Who has the best spraybar on the market

[motocross485]

looks like htp does right now. that thing looks amazing.

[madracer3600]

i just bought an adams perfromance spray bar. It doesn't bolt to stock bolt holes like it claims. Had to drill 4 holes to mount and 1 hole for line and wires. Overall very happy with how it looks like it will work. but we will see early march on the dyno.

[1BADGSXR]

Gsxr1300 has been making spray bars for a while. I'm ready to order one myself

[lee8sec]

Got one & it works great. Leigh

Gsxr1300 has been making spray bars for a while. I'm ready to order one myself

[Gixx1300R]

[Gixx1300R]

[mysticblu999]

That's a clean set up!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

[JC_Biggs]

anything that doesnt use 90 degree bends is the best way to go.. cecils plate is nice.   Im using it for a hybrid setup.

[Noswizard]

The spray bar concept is the WORST idea on the planet and ANYBODY who manufactures one, is demonstrating how little they understand nitrous oxide flow requirements. The one pictured above is about as bad as they can get for MANY reasons.

As JC just stated, 90 degree bends (abrupt ones in particular) are to be avoided, as are ANY internal cross drillings.

Why are abrupt 90 degree bends bad for FLOW (nitrous or otherwise), well if you need to ask that question you really have no idea about anything performance related. If abrupt 90 degree bends weren't to be avoided, modern motorcycles would not be using down draught intake ports, which are as straight as possible to avoid flow losses caused by ANY bend.

Why are internal cross drillings to be avoided, well any engineer will know that when you drill one hole across/through another, you end up with fragments of metal that are impossible to remove, particularly in small and awkward holes. Consequently, as the nitrous (or anything else) flows through such flow paths, it hits these fragments of metal causing it to deflect the flow, which results in impeded and uneven distribution.

Add together the problems caused by abrupt 90 degree bends and having them located inside a slab of alloy (as in a spraybar) and OBVIOUSLY the problems are compounded.

Now these are just 2 of the simpler FAULTS in the design of spraybars and I've only brushed the surface of even the problems they cause, so hopefully you can imagine how bad the flow is, when ALL the faults in the design are accounted for.

Now obviously 'we' (Wizards of NOS) could offer a spraybar system, like all the other companies who do so just to get their hands on your money regardless of the consequences to your motor but because we put PERFORMANCE before profit, we refuse to make such a bad product.

[Noswizard]

Ignoring all the TERRIBLE pipe work, abrupt 90 degree bends, cross drillings and the lump of alloy restricting and causing turbulent airflow in the above 'item' - THE SAME end result could just as easily be achieved, by fitting 4 Fogger nozzles in a piece of thin bar in a similar location. Not only would the Fogger nozzles do a better job of atomising the fuel but there would be much fewer flow losses and distribution problems. There's also be NO risk of the nozzle dropping in to the throttle bodies and ending up in the motor, WRECKING IT, as I'm reliably informed has happened to people using this kind of set up.

Now I don't sell Fogger nozzles and I don't advocate the set up I've just described either, but if I were any of you guys who claim you won't buy my products, then I'd certainly go for the Fogger option that this 'item'.

For anyone who wants THE BEST way to feed nitrous and fuel in to the motor and doesn't give a damn if the owner of the company offends their sensibilities, I'm sure JC will be happy to tell you, as he's just bought such a system from us.

[JC_Biggs]

indeed i have.. and i cant wait to max out this pulsoid  and need a bigger one 

[JC_Biggs]

Id like to point out a couple points as well..

number 1, those "fuel misters" are ripped off from an industrial HVAC store, marked up, and passed off as something creative and orignial to make a quick buck. They are in the wrong location, they are way to obstructive to air flow, and the simple presence of them in that location completely nullifies any performance gain created by separating the fuel and nitrous ... (not to mention the manufacturer is a deusch who cant keeps peoples family out of his arguments)   

these units (pictures below) are smaller, flow better, use less pressure, and are created by a company with a history of excelling at R&D and putting out products that work as well or better than advertised. And i can vouch... they do work. (very well)  also upon my request to have these made for my application, trevor used the time to actually improve the only detrimental effect of the plate sold by htp.  (the aluminum in the air stream) not a knock to HTPs plate, its awesome and works very well, this just improves on what happens in the air flow.

anyways... just look at the 2 devices... which do you think has more time and research put into it? Regardless of how you feel on a personal level about any company, the difference is clear, and ultimately, how fast do you want to go.  (i would post a picture of the inside, but heaven forbid that gets ripped of too  )





...and one more "thing" .. that "spray bar" was supposedly made like that to give a method for alcohol and water injection. Well, sadly...I dont think you need that at 70hp,    FFrom what i hear from multiple sources, that's all that thing will flow no matter how much jet you put to it. One shop even replaced it with a mps spyder and made 97hp where that  spraybar made 70. same jet... go figure...

[JC_Biggs]

ive  count NINE  90 degree bends... add in the bottle and the solenoid that totals 11. My WON system has  2 and both of those (bottle valve and pulsoid) are designed to make that bend as efficiently as possible.


 i count  27  oppurtunitys for phase change in this spray bar. most of them LARGE oppurtunities. (nitrous phase change is opportunistic)   the WON kit, had 9 such oppurtunitys and all are again, optimized to keep nitrous flow consistent, greatly reducing phase change.. more liquid in, more power out.  my phase change is controlled at the tip of the discharge tube, and again, that is designed to give you the best results.. this system about is a piece of tube with heat shrink on it to keep it from falling off...

 


anything else..

[Noswizard]

I think you missed some JC I count POTENTIALLY 34 JUST in the picture but I'd have to see the internals to be sure on at least a couple. 

I've not analysed my own system recently, so where have you found even as many as 9 in ours, are you talking about the WHOLE system?

Furthermore, for applications of less than 100 HP, if we supplied you with nylon supply pipe, we could remove 4 caused by using braided hose.

Just to show I give credit where it's due (as I did when I stated how much Billy Vose knows about nitrous), this guy obviously does some very good machine work, it's just that he's NO IDEA about nitrous component/system design, so he should stick to GENERAL machining and leave nitrous product design to those who do understand it. 

[JC_Biggs]

trevor on yours i only counted the transistions between the y blocks and the fittings/pipe, as i assume there is a slight amount of disruption there. But as i said above, its obvious those opportunities in your kit are extremely small as everything is properly sized, and there is no right angles.   i came up with 30 on his originally but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt, and really 27 is enough to prove the point. lol

[JC_Biggs]

I think you missed some JC I count POTENTIALLY 34 JUST in the picture but I'd have to see the internals to be sure on at least a couple. 

I've not analysed my own system recently, so where have you found even as many as 9 in ours, are you talking about the WHOLE system?

Furthermore, for applications of less than 100 HP, if we supplied you with nylon supply pipe, we could remove 4 caused by using braided hose.

Just to show I give credit where it's due (as I did when I stated how much Billy Vose knows about nitrous), this guy obviously does some very good machine work, it's just that he's NO IDEA about nitrous component/system design, so he should stick to GENERAL machining and leave nitrous product design to those who do understand it.

ill leave the comment about machine work alone..

[Noswizard]

trevor on yours i only counted the transistions between the y blocks and the fittings/pipe, as i assume there is a slight amount of disruption there.
NOPE they are PERFECTLY MATCHED to the pipe sizes on all 3 ports - YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER THAN TO THINK OTHERWISE!!!!    

[JC_Biggs]

lol.. well in that case i guess there is only 2 places for phase change to occur.. the bottle and the pulsoid.. both of which are axial flow i beleive... therefore minimizing the risk further....

is it possible that the Y's to have phase change at the split or are they sized big to small as well to reduce it? it looks like my 5mm Y blocks have a larger inlet than outet, which is they way it should be.


irregardless, 2 or 5  VERY small chances for phase change vs 27-34 ..... i mean really, to you need to debate any more..

[Noswizard]

lol.. well in that case i guess there is only 2 places for phase change to occur.. the bottle and the pulsoid.. both of which are axial flow i beleive... therefore minimizing the risk further....
Actually radial/tangential flow but I know that's what you meant.

is it possible that the Y's to have phase change at the split or are they sized big to small as well to reduce it? it looks like my 5mm Y blocks have a larger inlet than outet, which is they way it should be.
Exactly and they are very closely matched as well as 'flowed/smoother' at the joint.

irregardless, 2 or 5  VERY small chances for phase change vs 27-34 ..... i mean really, to you need to debate any more..
You know me JC, always on the search for perfection.