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Author Topic: Lightened/Balanced Crank  (Read 20073 times)

Offline Jay

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2012, 02:32:20 PM »

Offline sweatnblood

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2012, 02:40:23 PM »
good info to know...I figure I will have to map out a plan...don't have the cash to do everything at once...as of now I have finished up doing the suspention with upgraded front and rear springs and the 1"raisers...and I'm about to get the R1 wheels to loose some rolling mass...and that should finish up my  :bike: Then I'm not sure where to start on the engine part...I don't really drag race but do want to keep the bmw RR's off my ass :tu: so thinking the cam upgrade might be the 1st step with the cam gears...not sure what that cost but thinking around 500 between the cam and install...then not sure what a dyno tune will run but prob another 300 :shock: so 800ish for that mod...after reading and looking around that should get me close to 180ish RWHP with a full brocks system that I have...any insite will be much appreciated :tu:
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Offline Kirk

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2012, 03:06:14 PM »
Jay's been around the block a time or two.  Hang around long enough, and you'll see some interesting stuff. 

I used to have an absolutely EPIC series of photographs from a car that was towed into my shop.  I took them with an instant camera, and at some point in the last quarter-century, I seem to have parted company with them.

The vehicle was towed in because it would no longer move under it's own power.  I normally give a vehicle a pretty good inspection in addition do diagnosing the concern that it was presented for, especially if it's one that I've never seen before.  It belonged to a female real-estate agent, and that along with a few other red flags, piqued my interest.

The first thing I noticed when pushing it inside, was that it had the original tires on the rear, at nearly 50,000 miles, and they were so square from lack of rotation, that the car actually went "bump-bump-bump" as we were pushing it.  I've played this game before, so I knew to glove-up before touching the front tires, and my suspicions were sound- the inside shoulders of the used-mis-matched front tires were both worn THROUGH the tire's casing, with plenty of little steel "traction fibers" hanging out, that would have gaffed me if I had been bare-handed.  She had basically just driven it until the tires would pop, and then had whatever cheap used tires were laying around put on.  The current fronts looked like they were about to give birth to little baby tires, bulging like they were 40 months pregnant.

Then I noticed that the brake pedal went straight to the floor, and you could yank the E-brake just about into the back seat.  Upon removing the wheels, I found that she had driven it until the front brakes went metal-to-metal...and then kept driving it, until the front brake pad backing plates and the front brake rotors began thinning each other down, pushing a paper-thin layer of iron down over the internal vent ribs in the front brake rotors.  It eventually spit the backing plates out the front, and then began grinding down the front brake caliper PISTONS.  They eventually wore down to the point that they cocked and lost all fluid pressure.  So to stop the car, she began using the E-brake (and probably jerking the automatic transmission down into the lower gears for engine compression braking).  Eventually, she wore through the friction material and backing plates, and the rear brakes fell apart and got all balled-up inside the rear brake drums, at one point jamming the adjuster rod right through the backing plate, bending the backing plate on one side at an odd angle.  The wheel cylinders fell apart of course, with the pistons/cups/springs laying in the bottom along with the rest of the mess.  The original rear wheel bearing cotter pins were untouched- I was the first person to EVER inspect her rear brakes.

She then began using the park pawl to stop the car (after jerking the transmission down into first gear).  Eventually the park pawl failed, and the transmission failed shortly afterwards, for reasons that I cannot recall at this time.  I remember the transmission fluid smelled like DEATH, the pan still had the factory "cherry" in it, and if you've ever heard an automatic transmission guy talk about "panning for gold", this was like panning for hard parts- it was pretty freekin' grim.  The head gasket and rear main were gone, the original spark plugs had become "innies", the original fuel filter was plugged solid, the original oil filter and engine oil drain plug were still painted to the engine from when it left the assembly line, the dipstick came out encased with a full-length round black plug of tar, the OEM air filter looked like a chia pet, the fan belts were cracked and about as hard as diamonds, the steering rack was leaking, the inner tie rod ends were about to fall apart, the struts and shocks made that cool "whooshing" sound when bouncing on them, and the coolant was mud.  The car was only four years old, coming up on 50K miles, and it was a TOTAL loss.  It was AWESOME.  She just wanted me to patch it up with used parts, just to make it move under it's own power, and didn't care about the tires or brakes.  I told her to come get it before I started charging storage on it- I didn't need her business that bad, and I felt that I had a moral responsiblity to other motorists out there, to not be responsible in any way for putting her back on the road.  I charged her an hour's D-time, and told her not to let the door hit her in the ass on the way out.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 03:09:54 PM by Kirk »
-Kirk

Offline Kirk

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2012, 03:11:29 PM »


I just looked up the word "spiffy" in the dicitionary, and found that picture next to it, lol.
-Kirk

Offline Jay

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2012, 05:00:44 PM »
We can sell you a new gen 2 crank, just like that one. Outright at a smokin price.  http://aperaceparts.com/mailers/08busacranks.html

Offline Kirk

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2012, 05:57:55 PM »
Jay, thank you for extending that grace to me, but I'd have to buy as bike to put it in first, and I don't know that I see that happening while I'm laid up at home following spinal surgery.
-Kirk

Offline Jay

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2012, 06:57:52 PM »
You will be in our prayers for a speedy recovery.  :tu:

Offline Kirk

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2012, 07:13:08 PM »
Thanks, Jay.  I'd much rather pray for someone else than to need to be prayed for, but in this case, I could use it.  Probably a pride issue on my part.

I have TITANIUM in me.  Woo-hoo!   :tu:
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Offline FlatlandBusa

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2012, 09:23:39 PM »
Jay's been around the block a time or two.  Hang around long enough, and you'll see some interesting stuff. 

I used to have an absolutely EPIC series of photographs from a car that was towed into my shop.  I took them with an instant camera, and at some point in the last quarter-century, I seem to have parted company with them.

The vehicle was towed in because it would no longer move under it's own power.  I normally give a vehicle a pretty good inspection in addition do diagnosing the concern that it was presented for, especially if it's one that I've never seen before.  It belonged to a female real-estate agent, and that along with a few other red flags, piqued my interest.

The first thing I noticed when pushing it inside, was that it had the original tires on the rear, at nearly 50,000 miles, and they were so square from lack of rotation, that the car actually went "bump-bump-bump" as we were pushing it.  I've played this game before, so I knew to glove-up before touching the front tires, and my suspicions were sound- the inside shoulders of the used-mis-matched front tires were both worn THROUGH the tire's casing, with plenty of little steel "traction fibers" hanging out, that would have gaffed me if I had been bare-handed.  She had basically just driven it until the tires would pop, and then had whatever cheap used tires were laying around put on.  The current fronts looked like they were about to give birth to little baby tires, bulging like they were 40 months pregnant.

Then I noticed that the brake pedal went straight to the floor, and you could yank the E-brake just about into the back seat.  Upon removing the wheels, I found that she had driven it until the front brakes went metal-to-metal...and then kept driving it, until the front brake pad backing plates and the front brake rotors began thinning each other down, pushing a paper-thin layer of iron down over the internal vent ribs in the front brake rotors.  It eventually spit the backing plates out the front, and then began grinding down the front brake caliper PISTONS.  They eventually wore down to the point that they cocked and lost all fluid pressure.  So to stop the car, she began using the E-brake (and probably jerking the automatic transmission down into the lower gears for engine compression braking).  Eventually, she wore through the friction material and backing plates, and the rear brakes fell apart and got all balled-up inside the rear brake drums, at one point jamming the adjuster rod right through the backing plate, bending the backing plate on one side at an odd angle.  The wheel cylinders fell apart of course, with the pistons/cups/springs laying in the bottom along with the rest of the mess.  The original rear wheel bearing cotter pins were untouched- I was the first person to EVER inspect her rear brakes.

She then began using the park pawl to stop the car (after jerking the transmission down into first gear).  Eventually the park pawl failed, and the transmission failed shortly afterwards, for reasons that I cannot recall at this time.  I remember the transmission fluid smelled like DEATH, the pan still had the factory "cherry" in it, and if you've ever heard an automatic transmission guy talk about "panning for gold", this was like panning for hard parts- it was pretty freekin' grim.  The head gasket and rear main were gone, the original spark plugs had become "innies", the original fuel filter was plugged solid, the original oil filter and engine oil drain plug were still painted to the engine from when it left the assembly line, the dipstick came out encased with a full-length round black plug of tar, the OEM air filter looked like a chia pet, the fan belts were cracked and about as hard as diamonds, the steering rack was leaking, the inner tie rod ends were about to fall apart, the struts and shocks made that cool "whooshing" sound when bouncing on them, and the coolant was mud.  The car was only four years old, coming up on 50K miles, and it was a TOTAL loss.  It was AWESOME.  She just wanted me to patch it up with used parts, just to make it move under it's own power, and didn't care about the tires or brakes.  I told her to come get it before I started charging storage on it- I didn't need her business that bad, and I felt that I had a moral responsiblity to other motorists out there, to not be responsible in any way for putting her back on the road.  I charged her an hour's D-time, and told her not to let the door hit her in the ass on the way out.

WTF does this have to do with the subject???
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Offline Kirk

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2012, 09:25:06 PM »
John, if you don't want to read my posts, it's probably not a good idea for you to pore over the board, running searches for them. :tu:
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 10:06:26 PM by Kirk »
-Kirk

Offline sweatnblood

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2012, 11:09:26 PM »
Personally this post has been the most help for myself...so your good in my book Kirk :tu:
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Offline Kirk

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2012, 11:48:12 PM »
I try.

Thank you for your kindness.
-Kirk

Offline genarr3

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2012, 05:52:15 AM »
I had my crank lightened an balanced. I didn't experience either one of your "cons". If you have the engine apart go ahead and get it done, but I would not pull it apart just to do that.
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Offline Kirk

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2012, 12:11:23 PM »
 :tu:
-Kirk

Offline FastBikes4Life

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2012, 04:47:11 PM »
I had my crank lightened an balanced. I didn't experience either one of your "cons". If you have the engine apart go ahead and get it done, but I would not pull it apart just to do that.

I appreciate that. I will have the engine apart doing other things so I want to get this handled while it's opened up. I'm hoping for quicker acceleration. I went back and forth over doing a 1507 or just lightening/balancing my Gen 2 crank. Lightening/Balancing won. Thanks again.

Fast
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Offline glenn71

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2012, 03:53:41 AM »
you should have done both,theres a world of torque difference between a stock cranked 1340 and a 1507,and about 7-10ft/lbs between a 1441 and a 1507 of the same tune.
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Offline sweatnblood

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2012, 09:32:02 AM »
is the 1340 when you use the 2nd gen crank? what else do you need to do
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Offline fvance

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2012, 09:49:14 AM »
If you are going to put the Gen2 crank iput the Gen2 rods and pistons in, set the squish at about 35-40, I set mine at 33. This will give you 12.5-13-1 compression.
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Offline Rossco

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Re: Lightened/Balanced Crank
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2012, 07:34:05 PM »
I put a Gen2 crank supplied, balance gear removed, lightened and balanced from APE into my 1441 gen1 to replace an out of the box Gen2 crank.
Two VERY different motors. It is as smooth as silk now.
I was concerned that it might have been hard to control rpm/power for the launches due to considerably less rotating mass (manual stock clutch) but found the opposite.
The rpm/power response is much more direct to throttle input and controllable than the untouched stock crank.
From memory it is around 1.2kg lighter than stock.