who is the go to person for nitrous?

[glarior]

I am starting my quest for a nitrous build I am working on. I am curious who has run 150+ shots of nitrous reliably and for more than 1/4 mile.

I am looking for the go to person for nitrous.... who do you think that is?

Thanks

[sportbikeryder]

Guy Caputo runs nitrous, but he just uses little baby shots. 

[glarior]

Yep, I have talked with him and mentioned some pointers to me 

All the information I can learn from the top people the better chance I have of hitting my goal

[BATTMAN]

are you running LSR

[glarior]

Yes LSR

[Gixx1300R]

I helped Dean Sabantenlli set the 218 mph Nitrous record 2 years ago on his ZX10. He tested a 150 shot but backed it down to a 70 shot when he set he record. I have sprayed a 200 shot through my 1525cc Busa motor but I am now spraying a 150 shot. Richard Bell ran a 200 shot at Bonnevile about 4 years ago.

[entropy]

glarior/Charlie: 
good on you for shaking the tree, looking for the top expertise in big wet shots for LSR

Gixx1300R: 
are you the guy who makes those beautiful spraybars?? (i'm an NA guy, but i like nice pieces)

All: 
Charlie was adopted by TFA a few years ago and has seriously applied himself to going faster.  He now wants to set a/the asphalt LSR record on nitrous, but he wants to "do it right", both the nitrous set up and the associated motor build.  We are all watching charlie's project.

[ssober]

You might give walter sprout a call.  The depth of his knowledge is amazing.  I would not doubt he has done lsr.

[Noswizard]

link removed

Just for the record ALL Cecil Towners (HTP Racing) bikes use WON systems and I've personally provided Cecil with 100s of hours of my time to assist him achieve not only the outstanding results he's recorded so far but all those much improved results, that his bikes will be running in the near future, when they all switch to REVO systems, as used on the bike mentioned in the above link.

Now the Busa in Finland has not recorded ANY 'official' world record times (due to the lack of suitable organisation and venues, etc. in Europe), so no doubt some people will choose to ignore these results but smart guys would be wise enough to do otherwise.

Although the bike in the next link isn't a Busa (or similar), it is actually more of an achievement, to sustain such large percentage increases on such small engines, to achieve LSR World records and this one is 'official' (actually at least 2 times over), so the smart guys will appreciate, that the making the 249 MPH NITROUS Busa result in Finland an 'official' world record, is only a matter of location and time.

For your information, we have at least 5 LSR customers (3 American and 4 of them bikes), most of whom will be at Bonnevile this year (including the Busa from Finland), so we expect to see some more world records claimed then.

link removed

Obviously the guys at Bonneville Racing News were smart enough to appreciate what an achievement it was for Jarl to record such a speed, as they honoured him accordingly;

link removed

I'm sure you'll have the answer to your question once you've read these posts. 

Regards

Trevor Langfield (The Wizard of NOS)

[money maker]

Chuck wilborn at tupelo performance cycle is the nitrous man

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[KZScott]

I know a dentist thats pretty good with the stuff

[moparict]

just checked out his website - that's huge range of advanced nitrous products he has there, that's for sure. 

I didn't see anything as advanced as even our Pulsoids never mind our REVO system;

Just out of interest (as I'd love to see how your thinking works), how do you conclude that a guy who barely offers any nitrous products on his website, never mind being responsible for inventing, designing and manufacturing something as advanced as the REVO system, is "the go to person for nitrous"??? 


BTW no offense intended, I'm just curious.

Let me start off with saying that a few people on this board will get very whizzed off with sarcasm.  I just don't think they get it.

With that being said, why does a person have to have a website to be knowledgable?  Why does someone have to invent something to be knowledgable?  Why can't someone be the "go to guy" with the current technology at their disposal?  I think it's great that you have what you consider to be a good product and that you are confident in your product and knowledge, but that does not mean that you are the only "go to guy".

No offense meant, just playing devil's advocate. 

[Gixx1300R]

There are times when you need to know who NOT to go to. Go to that link and read, it is quite enlightening

http://www.gofastzone.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=b066948fdc3ffea9efc52fc8fc589c21&topic=8432.0

[Noswizard]

There are times when you need to know who NOT to go to. Go to that link and read, it is quite enlightening

http://www.gofastzone.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=b066948fdc3ffea9efc52fc8fc589c21&topic=8432.0

LOL - Only a fool would be dumb enough to believe the ramblings of a dumped bitch like Denny - LOL

I expected you have to resort to spreading bullshit about me, rather than rely on FACTS to argue your case (so this is no surprise), after you ran off with your tail between yours legs like a whipped dog, after the last 2 technical lashing I've given you on Facebook, when you've proved how LITTLE you understand the 'FACTS' about nitrous.

All I need to say to counter your low life tactics is this; It's just lucky for Cecil Towner (and a growing number of world record setting customers), weren't dumb enough to believe the LIES you've dug up, because instead of breaking world record after world record (as they've ALL done), they'd have achieved NOTHING, had they continued to use the nitrous products they were using until they came to me.

Would you care to call and ask Cecil Towner if he'd switch to 'your' products and 'your' knowledge (or ANY other) instead of mine, even if you offered to give him yours FREE, if so here's his number 804 340 0800 but I can tell you now, even if you offered him $50,000 to use yours INSTEAD of mine, HE'D REFUSE!!!

If you refuse or fail to call and convince Cecil to make the switch to your gear, I expect an apology for your low life tactics in digging up the testimony of a LIAR in the absence of ANY facts to support your case. 

[Noswizard]

Let me start off with saying that a few people on this board will get very whizzed off with sarcasm.  I just don't think they get it.
That's a shame as I find it quite amusing.

With that being said, why does a person have to have a website to be knowledgable?
I didn't say they ‘had to have a website' for anything!!! All I said with reference to his website, was that I'd had a look at it and found NOTHING to indicate he had the slightest understanding of nitrous. ANYONE who knows ANYTHING about nitrous, knows that Zex is far from being the best nitrous brand on the planet, so anyone who sells the stuff can't appreciate that fact, so it's less than a glowing testimony to his level of knowledge and that's just ONE indicator I could point out for you.

Why does someone have to invent something to be knowledgable?
They don't have to have 'invented something to be knowledgeable' but I would expect anyone with any sense to appreciate, that someone who has done so (as well as been a major contribution to a number of world records), would be more knowledgeable than someone who hasn't done either.

Why can't someone be the "go to guy" with the current technology at their disposal?
That depends on what you consider 'the current technology' because ALL our products are 'CURRENT', which makes ALL the products that have NOT changed for the past 50 years OBSOLETE and NOT 'current'.

If a guy wants to use the nitrous equivalent of 1980s cell phone and call on a suitable expert in such outdated technology, then no doubt there are plenty of sources of such products and 'go to' person's for guidance. Personally, if I was aiming to set some world records, I'd be looking for the most advanced products available with proven world records to back them up.
 
I think it's great that you have what you consider to be a good product and that you are confident in your product and knowledge, but that does not mean that you are the only "go to guy".
LOL - OK so what makes someone a 'go to guy' then????

No offense meant, just playing devil's advocate.
None taken and thanks for the post.   

[sportbikeryder]

Would you care to call and ask Cecil Towner if he'd switch to 'your' products and 'your' knowledge (or ANY other) instead of mine.

How many WON products are actually used on Cecil's Prostreet bike?
I've seen pictures of a complete REVO "kit" early on but I've also seen only a piece or two being used on some occasions.
Just wondering if there is more than a pulseoid on it or if it is a complete system.

At one point, it had an NMS-1000 controller, a pulseoid, and a standard distribution block, feeding 4 individual foggers in an HTP TB mount.

I would assume now it is back to REVO's or similar WON complete kit (other than the controller)?

[Noswizard]

How many WON products are actually used on Cecil's Prostreet bike?
I PERSONALLY visited Cecil while I was on a 3 week trip visiting some of my American customers and fitted BOTH Cecil's Pro Street bikes with my COMPLETE systems MYSELF, from and including the bottles, valves, Pulsoids, Y-Blocks and Nitrous Discharge Tubes, all of which I have numerous photos of. I also checked over the REVO system that was fitted to his Real Street bike while I was there.    

I've seen pictures of a complete REVO "kit" early on but I've also seen only a piece or two being used on some occasions.
When some low life wants to prevent someone getting credit they deserve, Paint shop or other photo editing software can be a very useful means to achieve that. If you doubt my word, feel free to call Cecil and ask him in person.

Just wondering if there is more than a pulseoid on it or if it is a complete system.
As stated above EVERY PART of the nitrous hardware is OURS. The ONLY part that we didn't supply was the braided nitrous supply hose, between the bottle and the Pulsoid.

At one point, it had an NMS-1000 controller, a pulseoid, and a standard distribution block, feeding 4 individual foggers in an HTP TB mount.
Well 2 out of 4 is correct (the Pulsoid and the controller) and there was a very good reason why Cecil had NO ALTERNATIVE but to use that controller. With the results on the Real street bike using one of our DRY system being so good (record after record with 100% reliability), Cecil decided he wanted to use DRY systems on his Pro Street bikes as well. With them both already being fitted with Motec units, he decided he wanted to control them directly from that but at the time it wasn't possible. He therefore needed a control unit that had a 0 to 5 Volt analogue output signal (to interface between the Motec and the nitrous system), which at the time was only available from that Schnitz unit and as Ryan was riding one of the bikes, it made sense to take the offer of some freebies.
If we'd had a 0 to 5 Volt output feature in the Max Extreme at the time, he would have used that instead. 
For your further information, the ONLY cause of problems that he suffered after fitting that controller, was the FAILURE of the 0 to 5 Volt signal from the Schnitz, which is why he was determined to get the Motec to carry out the full control.     

I would assume now it is back to REVO's or similar WON complete kit (other than the controller)?
The CURRENT situation is this;
1) On HIS OWN Pro Street bikes (I can't say what is being used on any of his customers bikes for certain and that is likely to be where any 'genuine' pictures showing the parts you mentioned being used will be from), he has;
i) Removed the Schnitz controllers and the control is now being carried out by the Motec, as they produced an interface unit to drive the Pulsoids directly sometime last year.
ii) The hardware remains THE SAME as when I PERSONALLY FITTED THEM, from the bottles through to Pulsoids and on to the nitrous Discharge Tubes.

2) On HIS OWN Real Street bike (again I don't know what his customers are using), he has EXACTLY the same Pulsoid arrangement that was on his bike that was the first to run a 7s pass.

3) On his Pro Mod bike he has EXACTLY THE SAME set up as on his Pro Street bikes and I have recent pics he sent me to prove it CONCLUSIVELY.

HOWEVER, in the VERY NEAR FUTURE that will ALL change, as we've been working on an interface unit, that will allow the Motec unit to drive the REVO units, which is what Cecil really wanted ALL ALONG but until recently has not been possible.

For the past 2 years we've been working to create an interface unit, that will convert the signals from the Motec, in to suitable signals to drive the REVO's and the Busa I mentioned above (based in Finland that has just run 249 mph), proved that the unit is now working perfectly, as he was the first customer to use one of the latest design.

Motec USA have also been testing the interface unit for Cecil and they are also happy with the results, so the prototype unit they were testing (along with the REVO), are now on their way to Cecil for fitting to his Pro Mod bike ASAP.

By the end of the week we hope to have a small batch of these interface units built and 3 of them will be sent over to Cecil (along with 3 REVO units), which will be enough to have ALL Cecil's own race bikes fitted with REVO systems.

The final outcome will be 3 bikes using Motec controlled REVO systems (1 x Pro Mod & 2 x Pro Street) and 1 bike using an OEM ECU controlled REVO system (the Real Street bike).

Now I could just be making all this up and setting myself up to be exposed as a liar and a fool, when a few months down the line none of it happens, so feel free to make your own decision on it but I wouldn't bet any money on me being a liar if I were you. 

BTW the 6.90 is going to be DESTROYED as soon as Cecil gets the Motec/REVO system working in sync and if he manages it in time, he should be the first to run a 3 in Pro Mod (under the CURRENT rules).

For your further information, you can expect some interesting announcements from Motec with regards to nitrous in the not too distant future and if you haven't heard already, we're forming a joint US corporation with an American based company (in Florida), to bring our products INTO the US market place, so it will be a “Made in USA product” before long.       

[Noswizard]

I helped Dean Sabantenlli set the 218 mph Nitrous record 2 years ago on his ZX10.
BTW exactly what 'record' is that, because 218 mph sounds EXTREMELY LOW to be ANY kind of outright record to me?

He tested a 150 shot but backed it down to a 70 shot when he set he record.
That seems a strange thing to do unless he was expecting the nitrous to damage his engine. When my customers set records they INCREASE the power some more to break the record again, because they have NO WORRIES about engine failure.

I have sprayed a 200 shot through my 1525cc Busa motor but I am now spraying a 150 shot.
Why would you spray less if the 200 shot worked well??? Records are NOT achieved by spraying LESS!!!!!!

Richard Bell ran a 200 shot at Bonnevile about 4 years ago.
I have customers spraying FAR MORE than that on a regular basis, which is why we now offer 450 HP Pulsoids.   

[sportbikeryder]

I helped Dean Sabantenlli set the 218 mph Nitrous record 2 years ago on his ZX10.
BTW exactly what 'record' is that, because 218 mph sounds EXTREMELY LOW to be ANY kind of outright record to me?

He tested a 150 shot but backed it down to a 70 shot when he set he record.
That seems a strange thing to do unless he was expecting the nitrous to damage his engine. When my customers set records they INCREASE the power some more to break the record again, because they have NO WORRIES about engine failure.

I have sprayed a 200 shot through my 1525cc Busa motor but I am now spraying a 150 shot.
Why would you spray less if the 200 shot worked well??? Records are NOT achieved by spraying LESS!!!!!!

Richard Bell ran a 200 shot at Bonnevile about 4 years ago.
I have customers spraying FAR MORE than that on a regular basis, which is why we now offer 450 HP Pulsoids.   

Dean Sabantenlli  set the non pushrod 100cc record at Maxton with that bike I believe.

As for always adding more power to set records, I'm going to have do disagree that adding more power is always the way to set records. Sometimes backing off of the power and re-thinking a setup will net better results than just throwing power at it, especially with track conditions not always ideal.


Do you really have folks spraying far more than 200hp on the salt on a motorcycle application? If so, I am very interested to hear more about this. If someone is spraying anywhere close to 450hp in a steady state motorcycle application, I will be extremely impressed.  What size bottle(s) were used for that? Seems it would require a 15-20lb bottle or at least a 10 lb with a pusher system.


BTW, Ashley Owens has been in the 3's and has the record at 3.964, set last september with his ProMod. Still 3's will be very impressive with a plain bearing engine. 

[JC_Biggs]

hehe.. come on john.. you know its possible to spray to 450hp!  there is ways to reduce the violence of nitrous to make it perfectly safe at those levels and beyond.

[sportbikeryder]

hehe.. come on john.. you know its possible to spray to 450hp!  there is ways to reduce the violence of nitrous to make it perfectly safe at those levels and beyond.

Really??? This is news to me that anyone has been able to spray 400+ hp on a bike at or near steady state operation. I've never seen it, and as I noted, if it has been done, I am very impressed.

I'm not talking for 4 or 7 seconds, I am talking WOT for miles...Bonneville.

[Noswizard]

Dean Sabantenlli  set the non pushrod 100cc record at Maxton with that bike I believe.
I assume that's a typo and should be 1,000 cc record?

As for always adding more power to set records, I'm going to have do disagree that adding more power is always the way to set records. Sometimes backing off of the power and re-thinking a setup will net better results than just throwing power at it, especially with track conditions not always ideal.
Such issues as track conditions are 'a given' to anyone with even the smallest amount of experience, so I didn't see the need to mention those when making such a statement here. Furthermore, while that would be the case when you don't have the extensive and fine control that my systems benefit from, it would NOT be the case when you have such extensive control, because you'd ONLY adjust/reduce the PROGRESSION RATE up to peak power, rather than reduce the peak power itself. Without delivering the maximum amount of nitrous possible (at whatever progressive rate the track conditions allow), you'll never achieve the highest POSSIBLE speeds and I'm sure you'll agree with that.

Sure when you have a crude hard hitting nitrous delivery that blows the tire away whenever you activate at the full power the engine can handle, the ONLY way to run higher top speeds is to reduce the jet size but that's NOT an issue for my customers.

Having said all the above, there was no such reason given for making such a big reduction in power on either example given, hence the question.   

Do you really have folks spraying far more than 200hp on the salt on a motorcycle application?
Salt is not something we have here in the UK (nor is it something most of my other international customers will ever encounter), so although I have some US based customers who race on salt, I wasn't confining my comments to such tracks. Unfortunately I don't have as much feedback as I'd like from some of my American salt racing customers, so if I'm to confine my answer to that type of track, I wouldn't be able to say for certain what power levels were being used.

 If so, I am very interested to hear more about this. If someone is spraying anywhere close to 450hp in a steady state motorcycle application, I will be extremely impressed.
I've given most of the answer to this above but in addition I'd like to state, that I was NOT suggesting that just because we now make a 450 HP Pulsoid, that ANY of my bike customers are using the full capacity of them in any sport.
To my knowledge I have 2 US based Pro Mod bikes, which still have a good way to go, before doing so but now that Cecil is upgrading to REVO's he should be able to push the limits of what a nitrous motor can handle. Similarly, the LSR bike in Finland that I originally posted details about, has continuously increased the nitrous volume he uses and the results have improved in line with the increasing power. Hopefully by the time he gets to Bonneville this year, he'll be using as much nitrous as the motor can handle and producing speeds in excess of those that only turbo Busa's have achieved so far.

What size bottle(s) were used for that? Seems it would require a 15-20lb bottle or at least a 10 lb with a pusher system.
Although we offer push systems OUR customers no longer need them, as the REVO can self compensate/adjust/increase flow, to counter pressure drop in order to continue to deliver either a constant or even a rising quantity of nitrous VOLUME, regardless of the pressure changes during a run. BTW it cam also self adjust to maintain a target AFR throughout the run, regardless of pressure changes and changes in general running conditions.
For the same reasons although a larger bottle is beneficial, it isn't as essential as it is when using basic nitrous kits, with no ability to compensate for pressure drop.  

BTW, Ashley Owens has been in the 3's and has the record at 3.964, set last september with his ProMod.
Yes I'm well aware of that but I guess you're not aware that the Pro Mod (Pro Extreme) rules were changed for this year, with there now being a minimum weight limit, at a higher level than Ashley was at when he ran a 3. That's why they are ALL struggling to run in the 4 zeros so far this year, therefore due to the new rules, the opportunity to be the first person to run a 3 is there for the taking, as the class rules are NOW.

Still 3's will be very impressive with a plain bearing engine.
Agreed and based on information from Cecil, very few Busa's are raced in Pro Mod, due to the fragility of certain aspects of the engine unit, so to run reliably in this class at a competative level (as Cecil has managed to do from day 1 of an ALL NEW bike), is a hell of a testimony to ALL the people involved and ALL the products being used, as I'm sure you'll agree.

[JC_Biggs]

I'm not talking for 4 or 7 seconds, I am talking WOT for miles...Bonneville.

there is only 2 MAIN limitations with nitrous. 1) the amount of nitrous the bike can carry and 2) the fact that the cylinders aren't supercharged (which is being addressed)   just like turbos can rid the problems they have in high boost.. so can nitrous users under high spray. if the engine can handle 650 turbo horsepower, it can handle 650 nitrous horsepower.. that has never been the case before now, but now the technology and control is there to make it happen.  now wether you can get a total 650 out to the wheel is yet to be seen, as i said before, no super charging, but once that is solved, then were back to finding mechanical limits again, which last i check bigcc has a busa over 850hp. if they can do it.. so can nitrous. 

unfortunately, and what most people dont understand, is that not any old nitrous kit can pull it off, it takes a very dialed in and even distribution to pull it off. along with a very clear understanding of what is happening and what changes are going to do before you do them.  actually, in my opinion the hard part is making sure everything flows evenly... not stopping detonation or egt run away.. thats the easy part.

[sportbikeryder]

I'm not talking for 4 or 7 seconds, I am talking WOT for miles...Bonneville.

there is only 2 MAIN limitations with nitrous. 1) the amount of nitrous the bike can carry and 2) the fact that the cylinders aren't supercharged (which is being addressed)   just like turbos can rid the problems they have in high boost.. so can nitrous users under high spray. if the engine can handle 650 turbo horsepower, it can handle 650 nitrous horsepower.. that has never been the case before now, but now the technology and control is there to make it happen.  now wether you can get a total 650 out to the wheel is yet to be seen, as i said before, no super charging, but once that is solved, then were back to finding mechanical limits again, which last i check bigcc has a busa over 850hp. if they can do it.. so can nitrous. 

unfortunately, and what most people dont understand, is that not any old nitrous kit can pull it off, it takes a very dialed in and even distribution to pull it off. along with a very clear understanding of what is happening and what changes are going to do before you do them.  actually, in my opinion the hard part is making sure everything flows evenly... not stopping detonation or egt run away.. thats the easy part.

Uh...ok., to that I would have to say...no shit  .

What I am asking about is who is doing it now? I am not denying that it could be done, I have just never heard of anyone being able to make a motorcycle engine last that long at near steady state conditions, turbo, nitrous, plutonium, whatever.   

Even spraying 200hp under nearly steady state conditions is a hige feat on a motorcycle engine.

I am referring to this

     "Richard Bell ran a 200 shot at Bonnevile about 4 years ago."
     "I have customers spraying FAR MORE than that on a regular basis, which is why we now offer 450 HP Pulsoids."

I assumed that meant under bonneville-like conditions and not just a 10 second burst. I am all ears for someone who has run anything close to 450hp on a motorcycle engine for extended durations. Like I said, just the bottle(s) size alone to do it is quite large for a motorcycle.


I don't do land speed racing. In drag racing, we don't use multiple pounds of nitrous per pass.

I am sure I could be an "internet expert" and look it up, or even do the calculations,  but if someone knows off-hand, what are approximate real-world values of pounds mass nitrous per hp unit time required in high end applications?  More specifically, how much nitrous is needed to make 400 hp for 1.5 minutes?

[JC_Biggs]

ok your confusing me.. are you talking about making 450hp TOTAL or SPRAYING 450 hp?? no i don't know anyone using 450 "extra" because i dont think you can physically get that much in the chamber without super charging.  but i do know there is well more than 200 on one bike in particular, albeit not a land speed bike. and i think trevor has one customer in particular that is using a  large amount of nitrous on a busa for land speed..

you guys always have a argument for something LOL. if its not "you cant make that much horsepower" then its "the bottle wont hold enough" well the REVO and MAX has  feature to open more as bottle pressure drops. that extends the range of a bottle considerably.  if someone was trying to do boneville then no, you probably cant take enough nitrous with you unless its a stream liner or something where you have some good storage space for a couple 15 lb bottles.. no problem spraying it for 9 miles though.. if i had enough room, id try it.


as far as your "weight per hp"  I have     .176lbs for 5 seconds = 40 hp  converted to   .0352lb/40hp/sec   simplified to   .00088lb/hp/sec   ( full flow) i think thats right.. LOL..  (btw, im willing to bet .176lbsfor 5 seconds will equal more than 40hp but these are the tried and true numbers for pulsoids)

thats not a magic number though, your delivery system can change that number massively.  for a nx kit  and NOSzles that number is much higher since they have to use more nitrous to make the same horsepower.


according to that you would need 35.64lbs of nitrous to use a full flow of 450hp for 90 seconds.  ...3  15lb bottles assuming you cant completely empty the bottles..


just for fun, for a quarter mile,  you would only need 2.772lbs ,  but that assuming you use full flow for a full 7 seconds, your not gonna put that much power down at the start so lets assume 5 seconds full power and 2 seconds half power and you only need.  2.376 ... get you a 3 lb bottle and your good.