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Author Topic: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology  (Read 7785 times)

Offline Noswizard

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Prototype Semi Sealed Induction System (SSIS) specifically for the Suzuki Hayabusa.



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« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 12:15:09 PM by ADMIN »

Offline JC_Biggs

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2012, 08:24:41 PM »
ohhhh shit.


 can you say 800 hp!!  :bike:

Offline Noswizard

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2012, 07:02:06 AM »
ohhhh shit.


 can you say 800 hp!!  :bike:
What I can say is; UNLIMITED BOOST!!!!!

Well at least as much as either the motor or the welds can handle that is.  :twisted: :twisted:

One of my team suggested that we'd need to secure the injection rail more securely than I designed it but I pointed out, that if we made enough boost to blow that off/out, I'd be more than happy to remake the whole deal, as it would already have proved the concept works at anything above ZERO psi boost.  :tu:


Offline mysticblu999

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2012, 08:55:13 AM »
That looks awesome!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
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Super Ultra build thread http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=160376.new#new

Offline JC_Biggs

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2012, 08:55:19 AM »
well technically, 1 pound of nitrous boost should be like 3 or 4 of turbo boost. so you wont actually need to run much pressure.  if you run only  8 psi manifold pressure you're not gonna have any  problems with it coming loose.  and the horsepower level should be right up there with a 30psi turbo bike.. especially if im correct in thinking alcohol will be used as the fuel.. im assuming with that fuel setup you could have a secondary revo supplying water  as well.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 08:56:55 AM by JC_Biggs »

Offline Noswizard

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2012, 09:19:19 AM »
That looks awesome!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
Glad you like it, just wait till you see the finish product, as I've purposely left off the most important and most interesting parts for now.  :tu:

Offline Noswizard

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2012, 09:29:16 AM »
well technically, 1 pound of nitrous boost should be like 3 or 4 of turbo boost.
I haven't bothered to do the maths as my main aim is to actually generate BOOST, whatever the amount required etc. but assuming that's a correct calculation, it does make things even easier than I expected.

 so you wont actually need to run much pressure.  if you run only  8 psi manifold pressure you're not gonna have any  problems with it coming loose.
Even if I achieved 100 psi I'm sure I have some big enough bolts to hold the whole deal in place but it's handy to know how little will actually be needed to exceed turbo boost levels.    :lol:

 and the horsepower level should be right up there with a 30psi turbo bike.. especially if im correct in thinking alcohol will be used as the fuel.. im assuming with that fuel setup you could have a secondary revo supplying water  as well.
Alky is a GREAT fuel for use with nitrous and you'd NEVER need water injection if you ran alky, as the double cooling effect of both nitrous and alky, plus the FAR lower risk of detonation when using alky, would be MORE THAN ADEQUATE to achieve reliable results. However, if you were using gasoline and we found detonation to be a limiting factor, we could easily add another REVO injection arrangement that would allow us to raise the bar even higher.

BTW we started making water injection systems over 30 YEARS ago (long before ANY OTHER UK company and possibly any other) and we still sell them now but we don't bother to promote them, because we're so busy concentrating on the nitrous aspects of our business.   


Offline California Kid

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2012, 05:56:17 PM »
Here is the big question how much $$$$$


Bill
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Online sportbikeryder

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2012, 06:47:54 PM »
Looks interesting

Does it have a "check valve" or venturi of sorts to prevent backflow into the incoming air or are you going for a truly sealed approach and actually going to make an attempt at running with 100% n2o as the oxidizer? If it is the latter....wow... I'm standing by to hear more.

I could be wrong, but I vaguely remember a "discussion" about something similar to this with Bill Vose some time ago.
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2012, 06:51:14 PM »
I like the "connected directly to the head idea...I have some sketches and initial layout ideas for a similar concept for a charge cooled turbo intake plenum.  :tu:
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.51, 171.75mph 1/8th mile  6.908, 212.83mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline Noswizard

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2012, 07:03:07 PM »
Here is the big question how much $$$$$


Bill
My primary aim is NOT to sell this concept but to create and achieve it, so I've not given any thought to the price of any I may sell. However, as with anything new that has cost a great deal of money in R&D, the first ones sold will be expensive and then the price will come down as volume goes up.

Offline Noswizard

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2012, 07:06:41 PM »
Looks interesting

Does it have a "check valve" or venturi of sorts to prevent backflow into the incoming air or are you going for a truly sealed approach and actually going to make an attempt at running with 100% n2o as the oxidizer? If it is the latter....wow... I'm standing by to hear more.

I could be wrong, but I vaguely remember a "discussion" about something similar to this with Bill Vose some time ago.
It will have a flow/pressure sensitive valve between the TB's and the airbox, that will allow air and nitrous in but will prevent any flowing out and that's why it's called a SEMI sealed induction system instead of just a SEALED induction system. ;-)

In a recent discussion with Bill he mentioned that he'd PLAYED with the idea and is pleased to see me actually making it happen.


Offline Walter Mitty

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2012, 05:19:08 PM »
Looks interesting

Does it have a "check valve" or venturi of sorts to prevent backflow into the incoming air or are you going for a truly sealed approach and actually going to make an attempt at running with 100% n2o as the oxidizer? If it is the latter....wow... I'm standing by to hear more.

I could be wrong, but I vaguely remember a "discussion" about something similar to this with Bill Vose some time ago.
It will have a flow/pressure sensitive valve between the TB's and the airbox, that will allow air and nitrous in but will prevent any flowing out and that's why it's called a SEMI sealed induction system instead of just a SEALED induction system. ;-)

In a recent discussion with Bill he mentioned that he'd PLAYED with the idea and is pleased to see me actually making it happen.

Well done noswizard on a superb all American product  :tu: :tu:

Offline Noswizard

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2012, 07:03:58 PM »
In your DREAMS!!!!   :hys:

Offline Bim28

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2012, 09:08:30 AM »
Have you started testing this yet? Looks good.   :tu:

Offline Noswizard

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2012, 09:39:52 AM »
No not yet but we have made some progress in the construction of the system, so we're a little closer now than we were. We can only spare time for this project when we're not flat out on business, so we don't get a great deal of time on it but I HOPE we'll have it fully functional and dyno tested before the end of the year.

It will certainly be fully functional within 6 months at the very latest, as the next 6 months are usually the quietest time for our business.

Offline STREETDRAG

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2012, 10:31:41 AM »
Can you work on genuine advances to get the prices down on this stuff,lol...

Offline Noswizard

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2012, 10:51:02 AM »
Only if we stop making EXPENSIVE technical advances and as I'm more interested in making technical advances than making money, that's not likely to happen for a while.

I'm FAR MORE interested in making nitrous assisted cars and bikes BEAT turbo and blown cars and bikes (ON EQUAL TERMS), than making money short term.

If I don't spend my time advancing nitrous technology, sooner or later there will be NOBODY using nitrous, as they'll all have switched to turbo's or blowers, because nitrous can't keep up due to turbos and blowers making technical advances, while nitrous stayed stuck in the Dark Ages.

Once upon a time NITROUS was the TOP DOG for performance but it's now at the bottom of the pack and that's ONLY because, US nitrous companies have been happy to continue profiting from selling outdated JUNK, rather than spend the HUGE sums of money needed to make technological advances.

In the Pro Mod car sector for example, blowers now out number nitrous cars by 20:1 in some cases and in the Pro Street bike class, the ratio of turbo's to nitrous bikes is probably in the region of 30:1 or worse. What makes it even worse, is that for the nitrous cars and bikes in these classes to even be in with the remotest chance of being competitive, the turbo and blown bikes/cars MUST BE HANDICAPPED to slow them down.

Personally I think that is PATHETIC and the people responsible for allowing this to happen should be ashamed of themselves. If I'd had the HUGE resources and the HUGE market that US nitrous companies have had over the past 50 years, I know for a fact that nitrous wouldn't be in the PATHETIC situation it is in now.   

I just hope I have enough time left to change it before I retire.

Offline STREETDRAG

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2012, 10:55:43 AM »
YEAH BUT TO HAVE LARGE SALES VOLUMES OF A PRODUCT TO GET THE HUGE RESOURCES, WOULDN'T IT MAKE SENSE TO HAVE A LOWER INITIAL PRICE?

LOWER PRICE= LARGER SALE VOLUME= MORE RESOURCES TO MOVE MORE UNITS=ADVANCEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY  :tu:
HIGHER PRICE=LESS SALE VOLUME=LESS RESOURCES=STILL IN THE DARK AGES EXCEPT TO A FEW WITH HUGE RESOURCES  :hys:

ADVANCEMENTS IN TECHNOLOGY (R&D) ARE USUALLY TAKEN ON BY THE MANUFACTURE TO GET MORE PRODUCT OUT THE DOOR. THE LOWER PRICE GETS THE CONSUMER BUYING AND USING THE PRODUCT. YOU AS MANUFACTURER THEN GAIN MORE KNOWLEDGE THAN YOU EVER COULD HAVE DOING R&D ALONE. THE WAYS A PRODUCT WOULD BE USED IN OTHER AVENUES, WITH A DIFFERENT MINDSET WOULD HENCE ADVANCE TECHNOLOGY. CONSUMER SALES VOLUME INCREASES OVER TIME NETTING BETTER RESOURCES, MORE OPTIONS OF USAGE AND YOUR ADVANCEMENT TO RETIREMENT  :hys:.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 11:03:22 AM by STREETDRAG »

Offline Noswizard

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2012, 11:33:07 AM »
A lower price means LESS PROFIT PER UNIT, which means you have to sell MANY MORE units 'JUST' to make the same profit. To sell a lot more units it takes up a lot more time, which means there is NO TIME to advance technology, because you're too busy handling the increased sales.

If it worked the way you suggest, why haven't the BIG US companies spent ANY time & money on R&D, as they should certainly have FAR MORE resources than we should have?

In my company I manage to maintain a good balance between sales, profit and the expenditure on R&D, which is why my company is the longest established nitrous company in the world, that has been owned and run by the same person throughout that time and why we manage to continuously produce more technological advances in ONE YEAR than ALL the other nitrous companies put together over a 50 year period.

BTW if you aren't well enough informed to be aware of the above FACTS and you're inclined to believe that some other company has either been established and in the same hands for longer than mine, I'd be happy to prove you wrong. Furthermore, if you 'think' some other company has made more technological advances than ours, I'd like to hear what examples you feel that applies to, as I'd love a good laugh right now.  :hys:

FYI ANY new technological advance in ANY product is initially sold at a MUCH HIGHER price than old technology and then the price falls, as the cost of the R&D spent on that product is recouped over time. EVENTUALLY that's what will happen with our products but it will be a while yet. 

Offline STREETDRAG

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2012, 01:19:15 PM »
I didn't post to argue, but to ask a question and now your attacking me... I'll let you get back to technologically advancing nitrous and I'll build the best system I can with what is available to me.. Thanks for your time..I actually been on the border about what stuff to buy but you pushed me to go another direction..  :tu:

A lower price means LESS PROFIT PER UNIT, which means you have to sell MANY MORE units 'JUST' to make the same profit. To sell a lot more units it takes up a lot more time, which means there is NO TIME to advance technology, because you're too busy handling the increased sales.

If it worked the way you suggest, why haven't the BIG US companies spent ANY time & money on R&D, as they should certainly have FAR MORE resources than we should have?

In my company I manage to maintain a good balance between sales, profit and the expenditure on R&D, which is why my company is the longest established nitrous company in the world, that has been owned and run by the same person throughout that time and why we manage to continuously produce more technological advances in ONE YEAR than ALL the other nitrous companies put together over a 50 year period.

BTW if you aren't well enough informed to be aware of the above FACTS and you're inclined to believe that some other company has either been established and in the same hands for longer than mine, I'd be happy to prove you wrong. Furthermore, if you 'think' some other company has made more technological advances than ours, I'd like to hear what examples you feel that applies to, as I'd love a good laugh right now.  :hys:

FYI ANY new technological advance in ANY product is initially sold at a MUCH HIGHER price than old technology and then the price falls, as the cost of the R&D spent on that product is recouped over time. EVENTUALLY that's what will happen with our products but it will be a while yet.

Offline Noswizard

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2012, 01:34:17 PM »
If you think that was an attack then you haven't seen my posts when I have attacked someone!!!!

YOU were the one who 'presumed' to TELL ME how to run my company and ALL I DID was respond to that and inform you of a few FACTS, so if you take that as an attack that's your choice, as I didn't see it that way but then I'm not the sensitive type.

Feel free to purchase inferior parts but don't expect anything but inferior results.  :id:

Offline smisko66

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2014, 11:19:58 AM »
nice setup!!

Offline 2fast4u2c

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2014, 08:34:02 PM »
If you think that was an attack then you haven't seen my posts when I have attacked someone!!!!

YOU were the one who 'presumed' to TELL ME how to run my company and ALL I DID was respond to that and inform you of a few FACTS, so if you take that as an attack that's your choice, as I didn't see it that way but then I'm not the sensitive type.

Feel free to purchase inferior parts but don't expect anything but inferior results.  :id:

Haven't been on here for awhile and I see you haven't changed in your customer relations skills.  Of course, being you're not the sensitive type it won't matter much would it.

Your new Semi sealed system looks interesting, hope it works well for you.
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Offline Rocketgeezer

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Re: For anyone who wants to see GENUINE ADVANCES in nitrous technology
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2014, 08:53:20 PM »
Having run blowers, turbos, and nitrous, I never doubted if some had the time and money to do the R & D with nitrous it could be made to have equal or near equal performance, and with bikes instead of cars, it really gets down to ether Nitrous or Turbo, and if you take the fastest of each they are real close, but you can bet the farm that the average nitrous bike burnt more stuff up getting there
The older you get do you notice you start chickening out way before the bike does