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Author Topic: Fatalities in LSR  (Read 211172 times)

Offline entropy

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #125 on: August 15, 2013, 09:15:37 PM »
I ran at Texas when they first used lights after the finish line.

my opinion...

Put flashing lines AT THE FINISH LINE and no where else. 

Like Tom says, you can see lights at the finish line from the start line.
For me, that is plenty.

For me, lights after the traps confuse the issue; simple works best for me.
Launch seeing the flashing lights way down the mile.
Run the mile using the lights at the traps to keep yourself pointed correctly.
When you pass the flashing trap lights, you no longer see any lights, GET ON THE FUKKEN BRAKES.

Just my opinion.
ksrl
Often wrong, but never unsure!!!!!

Offline zrxdean

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #126 on: October 02, 2013, 01:21:12 PM »
So how did folks like the flashing lights at the Ohio traps last weekend? -Dean

Offline 2fast4u2c

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #127 on: October 02, 2013, 02:21:25 PM »
Dr. Dean,

Everyone gave two thumbs up for the lights.  thanks for all your input and help here.

Guy
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Offline osti33

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #128 on: October 03, 2013, 07:57:45 AM »
So how did folks like the flashing lights at the Ohio traps last weekend? -Dean

The lights worked fine for me. Very easy to see. That being said I never really had an issue seeing the finish line before the lights were added. 
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Bonneville, Loring, ECTA, Texas, Mojave

Offline 2fast4u2c

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #129 on: October 22, 2013, 04:59:41 PM »
If our new flashing lights at the finish line saves just 1 life, just 1, then they were well worth the investment.
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Offline rustman

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #130 on: October 23, 2013, 10:34:42 AM »
I totally agree with the lights.  There is a serious pucker when you have to make that decision whether you just passed 3/4 or the mile marker.  Ask me how I know.   :wink:
Yeah, it made 500 hp at 32 psi.
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Offline scott g

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #131 on: October 23, 2013, 11:32:42 AM »
If our new flashing lights at the finish line saves just 1 life,
just 1, then they were well worth the investment.

I tend to agree.

My worry is that we could spend the
same money and save MORE lives......

Offline rustman

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #132 on: October 23, 2013, 10:37:15 PM »
If our new flashing lights at the finish line saves just 1 life,
just 1, then they were well worth the investment.

I tend to agree.

My worry is that we could spend the
same money and save MORE lives......

What are your thoughts Scott?  This is such an important topic with the losses we've seen, or even if we had seen no losses, for that matter.
Yeah, it made 500 hp at 32 psi.
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Offline scott g

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #133 on: October 24, 2013, 03:36:52 PM »
If our new flashing lights at the finish line saves just 1 life,
just 1, then they were well worth the investment.

I tend to agree.

My worry is that we could spend the
same money and save MORE lives......

What are your thoughts Scott? 

This is such an important topic with the losses
we've seen, or even if we had seen no losses,
for that matter.


The ECTA - a private company, BTW - has "hired" Dean
and some other very well qualified folks with expertise
in the area of human perception and response.

I would like very much to read their report
before making any commitment.

My PhD work was in safety, so I have a
little background in what they will be considering.

One point of view could be to not spend
"all the money" without knowing the best response. 

If you spend all the money on something that winds
up being 6th on the list, than maybe if you had waited,
the same money could save 5 lives instead of just one......

Offline rustman

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #134 on: October 24, 2013, 04:52:00 PM »
Good answer.  It would be quite interesting to see their conclusions in the end.  I've got enough egghead in me to follow along.

Unrelated-  regarding best scenario reaction times and stopping distance:  I recall at least two instances of catching the tip of my glove on the lever when entering shutdown.  This might well have cost me 300 feet of shutdown margin.  I'd guess a full second was probably wasted.  Not an issue at my speeds as I've always made the turnoff at a safe speed (well, except for this one time....).
Yeah, it made 500 hp at 32 psi.
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Offline zrxdean

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #135 on: October 24, 2013, 07:34:00 PM »

The ECTA - a private company, BTW - has "hired" Dean
and some other very well qualified folks with expertise
in the area of human perception and response.

I would like very much to read their report
before making any commitment.

My PhD work was in safety, so I have a
little background in what they will be considering.

One point of view could be to not spend
"all the money" without knowing the best response. 

If you spend all the money on something that winds
up being 6th on the list, than maybe if you had waited,
the same money could save 5 lives instead of just one......

Where do you come up with this stuff Scott?  No one has been hired, there is no "report" coming from me or anyone else.

This kind of out-of-thin-air fabrication makes me wonder about your perspective on what is "real" and what isn't. 

Dean

Offline Got-Busa?

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #136 on: October 24, 2013, 08:49:29 PM »

The ECTA - a private company, BTW - has "hired" Dean
and some other very well qualified folks with expertise
in the area of human perception and response.

I would like very much to read their report
before making any commitment.

My PhD work was in safety, so I have a
little background in what they will be considering.

One point of view could be to not spend
"all the money" without knowing the best response. 

If you spend all the money on something that winds
up being 6th on the list, than maybe if you had waited,
the same money could save 5 lives instead of just one......

Where do you come up with this stuff Scott?  No one has been hired, there is no "report" coming from me or anyone else.

This kind of out-of-thin-air fabrication makes me wonder about your perspective on what is "real" and what isn't. 

Dean

...and I thought I was the only one stepping in the BULL SHIT, thanks Dean for pointing that out! :hys:
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 08:52:39 PM by Got-Busa? »
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Offline scott g

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #137 on: October 24, 2013, 08:57:05 PM »
Joe quickly responded.

(Dean Sabatinelli is also a PhD, and has been timed TWICE
at over 269 MPH at Loring on an SGR Hayabusa)

Scott,

I have asked Dean Sabatinelli for assistance in this matter and
three PH.D's have been contacted. Their specialties include noise,
annoyance and information processing, coding for visual displays,
human vision, perception, and visual performance and transportation safety.

I have contacted various manufacturers who produce safety lighting.

We have identified that at the half mile mark the track goes downhill
for not quite a half mile and then becomes level again. The red placards
get muted by the white concrete.  The track faces the southwest
and the afternoon sun becomes a factor also.

Things we have learned:

Flashing lights are the best for capturing attention.

Every onset and offset drives the visual system.
Flashing lights presented at 5-8 per second have
the best attention capture properties.

There are very few folks out there with photo-sensitive
epilepsy - about 500 people in the entire country. It comes
on at puberty, so they typically know that they know they have it.
The flash rates that trigger reactions are fast; 12-18 per second.


Joe


Dean:  Sorry to have touched a raw nerve here, I was
just going by my interpretation of what Joe emailed to me.

I somehow assumed that the "group" of you had been
"engaged" to offer opinions either together, or individually.

I put "hired" in quotes, since I did not know if:

1) Money would change hands for consultation.

2)  Professional opinions would be offered.

3)  Written reports would be made.

4) Recommendations would be made, etc.

I was just going by what I read in Joe's email to me.

If I have mis-interpreted that, it's my fault, and I apologize....

Scott

Offline zrxdean

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #138 on: October 25, 2013, 09:05:51 AM »
That's a lot of assumptions to cover with one set of quotation marks Scott.  I guess anything you post (even if the text is all caps, bold, and underlined) should be taken a grain of salt.  Dean

Offline scott g

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #139 on: October 25, 2013, 01:25:39 PM »
That's a lot of assumptions to cover with one set of quotation marks Scott.  I guess anything you post (even if the text is all caps, bold, and underlined) should be taken a grain of salt.  Dean

No Dean,

I think the best thing would be
for readers of this web site to do is to
forget everything I have written in the past,
and to ignore anything I have ever said here. 

And if you do remember something,
assume it is wrong or misleading.

Scott

Offline rustman

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #140 on: October 26, 2013, 12:21:44 AM »
It takes all kinds of people to constitute a community.  I personally think that we should each take everything we hear from anyone with a grain of salt.  Filter it through your brain, extract whats useful, and discard the rest.  It's time for that deep breath I mentioned earlier.  Breath in...breath out...repeat.

Please take all of that will a grain of salt my friends.  My opinion can never trump what you personally know to be true.
Yeah, it made 500 hp at 32 psi.
233 mph Texas Mile
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Offline TrickTom1

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #141 on: March 21, 2014, 05:16:46 PM »
That's a lot of assumptions to cover with one set of quotation marks Scott.  I guess anything you post (even if the text is all caps, bold, and underlined) should be taken a grain of salt.  Dean

No Dean,

I think the best thing would be
for readers of this web site to do is to
forget everything I have written in the past,
and to ignore anything I have ever said here. 

And if you do remember something,
assume it is wrong or misleading.

Scott
:tu:

Offline scott g

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #142 on: April 15, 2014, 02:21:55 AM »
Bills accident IMO was caused by power wheelieing @ 280 and a cross wind that pushed him off to edge of the coarse. Unfortunately there was obstacle in his way that he couldn't avoid.
+10000000

I thought is was a
failure of the rear tire.........

That's what was posted
on another thread on this site.

Offline scott g

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #143 on: April 15, 2014, 02:23:46 AM »
That's a lot of assumptions to cover with one set of quotation marks Scott.  I guess anything you post (even if the text is all caps, bold, and underlined) should be taken a grain of salt.  Dean

No Dean,

I think the best thing would be
for readers of this web site to do is to
forget everything I have written in the past,
and to ignore anything I have ever said here. 

And if you do remember something,
assume it is wrong or misleading.

Scott
:tu:

Yup !

Just like the basic post above;
total fabrication.........

Offline scott g

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #144 on: May 07, 2014, 07:09:13 AM »
Ken 12R in England sadly reports that we have
again lost one of our own, Tony Foster.

Ken died following a bad crash
in the Elvington event earlier this year.

Ken tells us:

I am sorry to report that Tony Foster sadly
passed away in his sleep last night
at Leeds General Hospital following his accident at Elvington.

He was a great Guy and will be much missed
by all his friends and our thoughts lie with his family at this sad time.
RIP Big Man.

Offline scott g

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #145 on: May 07, 2014, 07:14:53 AM »
Ken:  We can respect that this is a hard time for you.

Is it possible that you can help us by telling us
a little more about Tony's crash ?

Things like Tony's age, riding experience
and participation in LSR events ?

Also details of his bike ?  Type, year, modifications,

And the crash:  his speed, track condition,
winds, location down the track, etc.

Cause of death:  Head injury, chest injury, etc.

Anything else we should know ?

Thanks, Scott

Offline MJ Williams

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #146 on: May 09, 2014, 09:50:56 AM »
Sad day for all in this small community.
Godspeed my friend.
Have a Harley, spent lots of money on it, thought I had a fast motorcycle, bought a Busa, realized all I had was a fast Harley, not a fast motorcycle!

Offline scott g

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #147 on: June 05, 2014, 05:49:28 AM »
Well......

It now seems that (again) guys that go over 200 MPH
for a living think that's just too fast !

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/motogp-race/putting-the-brakes-on-motogp/

Do you think they have better brakes than we do ?

Do you think they have more practice stopping from 200 MPH than we do ?

Even the WORLD CHAMPION crashes at over 200 mph by not braking correctly.

How can we poor souls hope to get it right.....

Offline Ken 12r

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #148 on: June 17, 2014, 10:07:01 AM »
Ken:  We can respect that this is a hard time for you.

Is it possible that you can help us by telling us
a little more about Tony's crash ?

Things like Tony's age, riding experience
and participation in LSR events ?

Also details of his bike ?  Type, year, modifications,

And the crash:  his speed, track condition,
winds, location down the track, etc.

Cause of death:  Head injury, chest injury, etc.

Anything else we should know ?

Thanks, Scott

There is not a lot to say really and the incident is still under investigation by the police but sadly Tony was ejected by his Turbo Busa when it failed initially to shift gear  at around 80 mph and landed badly on his head causing serious brain trauma from which he did not recover.

Offline 2fast4u2c

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Re: Fatalities in LSR
« Reply #149 on: June 17, 2014, 11:06:56 AM »
Ken:  We can respect that this is a hard time for you.

Is it possible that you can help us by telling us
a little more about Tony's crash ?

Things like Tony's age, riding experience
and participation in LSR events ?

Also details of his bike ?  Type, year, modifications,

And the crash:  his speed, track condition,
winds, location down the track, etc.

Cause of death:  Head injury, chest injury, etc.

Anything else we should know ?

Thanks, Scott

There is not a lot to say really and the incident is still under investigation by the police but sadly Tony was ejected by his Turbo Busa when it failed initially to shift gear  at around 80 mph and landed badly on his head causing serious brain trauma from which he did not recover.


I have been an advocate of the Leatt Neck Cervical protector for years now. I wonder if this is another example of how it might have saved Tony's life had he been wearing one? 

Guy
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