Progressive versus staggering

[blubyubusa]

I have never liked the idea of the progressive nitrous controller and chattering or fluttering the solenoid seems like a poor was to control the fuel and nitrous spray. A car friend insist that the new (somewhat) thing in nitrous control is to bank the sequence of events. In other words, in a car the full spray would come in on some cylinders, and in a timed event for the other cylinders to receive the same full shot. On a bike cylinder one and two receive the full shot, an instant later three and four get the full shot. Another way, one get the full shot, quarter of a second later two get the full shot, quarter of a second later three gets the full shot and so on. Does it work, is he full of it will it work for a bike? All these solenoids and lines may not work on bikes.

[sportbikeryder]

I would think if you did it that way, you would end up with one of these:

[blubyubusa]

I tend to agree with you on a mind level but it works in cars and eliminates the need for the progressives.

[sportbikeryder]

I tend to agree with you on a mind level but it works in cars and eliminates the need for the progressives.

Try it and see how it works. If everyone just did the same thing as everyone else, there would never be an advancement.
Just be sure you are prepared to deal with failures when you are trying new things.

[blubyubusa]

I am an old man that used to ride busas at the track. Now at 65 my fast bike is a vrod that runs about seven oh or so with three passes in the six ninety range. I stay on here still thinking and dreaming about doing it again, but truth be told I am a little old and slow in mind and reflexes to go 130 to 140 in the eighth mile. I put the info out here to see if it was being done with bikes, I know it is happening in cars, unless my friend lies. He might make a mistake but he would not lie to me. I will keep reading to see if it is being done not to discuss me doing it. In fact, I would not recommend nitrous in any form. Between me and two sons about eight car motors from fifteen to eight years ago (an eight year window). We were slow learners. I do not have a car now, my last was a five nineteen eighth mile bracket car, the older has a alcohol blown 4.30 eighth miler, the younger boy has a twin turbo four fifty car. You can see where we went and what our success with nitrous was. The guy that told me this has never blown a motor with it. When he last raced he ran consistent four sixty in eighth mile with  632 tube chassis 68 Camaro. He got a lot out of the motor before he wrecked on a slick track.

[GSXRTURBO1]

Don't forget that in a V8 2 cylinders share a crank journal, where in an inline 4 it's one cyl per crank throw. I would think that can make a difference in how the crank handles different power loads in different cylinders... i.e. a V8 would be more forgiving. Just a thought.....

[RansomT]

But isn't this method the same thing as progressive?  You still have to "chatter" the solenoid unless you are gear selecting the spray. 

I personally don't like progressive either, I perfer staged.

[GSXRTURBO1]

No, I believe what he's suggesting is individual nozzles to each cylinder, each getting the full amount of nitrous but only 2 of the 4 cylinders getting it all the time. I take it the other 2 cylinders would be on a different solenoid that was time delayed. I can't see this as being a good idea, especially on an inline 4 cylinder engine.

[RansomT]

No, I believe what he's suggesting is individual nozzles to each cylinder, each getting the full amount of nitrous but only 2 of the 4 cylinders getting it all the time. I take it the other 2 cylinders would be on a different solenoid that was time delayed. I can't see this as being a good idea, especially on an inline 4 cylinder engine.

So it would be staging 2 cyl at a time?

[GSXRTURBO1]

kind of, like 2 cylinders full on, then 4 cylinders full on. At least that's how I understood it. 

[blubyubusa]

You got it turbo.  One or two cylinders get the full shot then the other two get the full shot.  If start with one cylinder, it gets full, then cylinder two gets full, then cylinder three get full, then cylinder four gets full. the progressives part is from one cylinder to the next not a ramping of the spray. each spray is full to that cylinder or if spraying 100 into the four cylinders each cylinder would get a full 25 shot at timed intervals. I guess another way would be to fog four with fifty and then fog fifty more to all four at a timed interval.  I hope this helps people and does not cause anyone more difficulty. Please do not do anything with which you are not comfortable. I sincerely started to thread to see if anyone is doing it in motorcycles. I know some of the cars are. Best to everyone and go fast but do it as safely as possible.

[Ludicrous Speed]

Interesting concept, but I think the harmonics would be hard as hell on a crank, of any cylinders.

I wonder what Trevor would have to say on this, surely he has a theory?

[SLEEPERBUSA]

In the automatic pro mod world, there are some sanctions that only allow one Kit, so they use 1 large Kit. They turn on 1 bank as the first stage, then the second bank as soon as the car will take it. Its a slick way of making 2 kits out of 1.

[GSXRTURBO1]

In the automatic pro mod world, there are some sanctions that only allow one Kit, so they use 1 large Kit. They turn on 1 bank as the first stage, then the second bank as soon as the car will take it. Its a slick way of making 2 kits out of 1.

Hey Chris 

By only one kit allowed, does that mean only 1 bottle but multiple solenoids with something like fogger nozzles? I could see what you described above with 1 bottle, 2 nitrous and 2 fuel solenoids (1 nitrous and 1 fuel solenoid for each bank of cylinders) and individual nozzles for each cylinder.

[SLEEPERBUSA]

Don't know about the bottles. Probably 2, but yes, a 600hp fogger bringing one side at a time. I have heard of Pro Mod cars running 4.teens in the 1/8th mile on 1 kit. That's getting it done.

[GSXRTURBO1]

Almost 80 HP per cylinder, with almost 80 cubic inches in each cylinder in most cases (I believe 632 is a popular Pro Mod combo) 

[SLEEPERBUSA]

Not too many 632s left in any ProMod classes. Now if you have a 706 or 737, you're prolly not even gonna make the show.

Check out what street tire cars are doing today.
The car in the right hand lane has an 894" Fulton motor with either 4 or 5 kits. The other car has a top alcohol blown Hemi motor..........on STREET TIRES!

BOTH are Houston Texas cars, I might add....

http://www.dragzine.com/news/video-the-quicket-side-by-side-outlaw-radial-race-in-history/

[GSXRTURBO1]

Wow 

Thanks Chris, as always, great info 

[surprenant]

Ran it both ways...staged and progressive box........i never had problems with progressive...more control......cars are a bit different than bikes.....but again whatever makes you happy...when shit is built right and wired right it runs right.

I had a TOPDRAGSTER with a 632 that ran 6.90 on motor and had 2 stage of nos....1 set of plates and one fogger ...fogger was progressive control.Never any problems.

[surprenant]

I could not imagine someone spraying 2 out of 4 cyliders on a bike.....even promod bikes have progressives ....

[Noswizard]

I have never liked the idea of the progressive nitrous controller and chattering or fluttering the solenoid seems like a poor was to control the fuel and nitrous spray. A car friend insist that the new (somewhat) thing in nitrous control is to bank the sequence of events. In other words, in a car the full spray would come in on some cylinders, and in a timed event for the other cylinders to receive the same full shot. On a bike cylinder one and two receive the full shot, an instant later three and four get the full shot. Another way, one get the full shot, quarter of a second later two get the full shot, quarter of a second later three gets the full shot and so on. Does it work, is he full of it will it work for a bike? All these solenoids and lines may not work on bikes.

Banking is a BAND AID for trying to pulse solenoids that are NOT designed to be pulsed (because they don't respond adequately) and is totally unnecessary when using our Pulsoids and especially when they are used in conjunction with our Max Extreme controller, because THEY ARE designed to be pulsed.

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That said, you are entirely correct that pulsing solenoids is a poor means to regulate fuel and nitrous flow, which is why I invented and now manufacture and sell the REVOLUTIONARY REVO.
You can see that these deliver the fuel and nitrous in a SMOOTH CONTINUOUS flow by viewing the video demonstrations (click on the thumbnails) on the following page;

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Although the REVO is the ULTIMATE in nitrous flow control, as we realise not everyone can afford a REVO system or master the control technology, we've continued to advanced pulsed technology to the highest possible degree and as a consequence, MOST people will achieve more than adequate results from using our Pulsoid systems.

With the Pulsoids and a CORRECTLY designed nitrous system feeding the engine, the engine will only see SLIGHT FLUCTUATIONS, rather than the ABSOLUTE ON/OFF HITS that is the case with ALL alternatives.