1298 Rear Wheel HP, ??.

[FlaminRoo]

i am  interested to know what rear wheel horsepower a naturally aspirated 1298cc (Gen 1) is capable of making, with headwork,  cams, pipe, etc,??, .  dyno numbers, real not fanticy, 

[RansomT]

I'll start off with mine:  On pump gas, mine shows 207/107.  My cams are pushed really high, so I do give up a couple pounds of TQ at the expensive of HP curve pushed up.  Plus, when I built the motor, I did have in mind spraying.  So I do have several HP laying on the table due to the set up.

[sportbikeryder]

I'll start off with mine:  On pump gas, mine shows 207/107.  My cams are pushed really high, so I do give up a couple pounds of TQ at the expensive of HP curve pushed up.  Plus, when I built the motor, I did have in mind spraying.  So I do have several HP laying on the table due to the set up.

207 with stock bore and stroke?

Who are you, Fred Vance's brother? 

[fvance]

Mine is a 1340, 230hp. I would think with a Carpenter head and cams 210 to 215  should be easily attainable.

[yvesgsxr1300]

202HP/111TQ with drop in pistons  ......Totally streetable = pump gas........... I ran 9.27 at 155 with me at 215lbs suited. Stock wheelbase

[speedduck]

Mine is a 1340, 230hp. I would think with a Carpenter head and cams 210 to 215  should be easily attainable.

So, with Carpenter parts you could have 210-215, but now you have 230, there must be some serious parts you got there

[fvance]

I was talking about 210-215 with the same parts I have, on a 1298 cc motor, Carpenter head and cams. Of course you need Johnny Cheese to tune it.

[speedduck]

Just let me know when JC is touring northern Europe, i could arrange a day on a Dynojet or Dynostar 

[clearblue]

My 1397 carpenter with head work onlys makes 212hp

[Johnnnycheese]

Just let me know when JC is touring northern Europe, i could arrange a day on a Dynojet or Dynostar 

I would like to go back to Holland with my wife again her homeland

[RansomT]

My 1397 carpenter with head work onlys makes 212hp

But how much TQ?  and which cams at what degree?

[clearblue]

My 1397 carpenter with head work onlys makes 212hp

But how much TQ?  and which cams at what degree?

115.87 TQ cams 425/425 at 110int/112exh

[whtrthanu]

they make good power if you do em right.....ive done a bunch of 1340s....stock pistons and stock rods, they run real good..REALLY GOOD

[clearblue]

they make good power if you do em right.....ive done a bunch of 1340s....stock pistons and stock rods, they run real good..REALLY GOOD

What's up Mike Hope you had a Good New Year

Mark

[nykon]

I came in here to see a 1300 rwhp bike 

[Cycle Concepts]

i am  interested to know what rear wheel horsepower a naturally aspirated 1298cc (Gen 1) is capable of making, with headwork,  cams, pipe, etc,??, .  dyno numbers, real not fanticy, 

180'ish depending on what fuel you put it on..this is based around a stock bore using stock pistons, ported head,cams and a good pipe..this is real world no bs numbers that i have seen out of many gen1's done by many of the biggest names in this part of the sport..

[sportbikeryder]

i am  interested to know what rear wheel horsepower a naturally aspirated 1298cc (Gen 1) is capable of making, with headwork,  cams, pipe, etc,??, .  dyno numbers, real not fanticy, 

180'ish depending on what fuel you put it on..this is based around a stock bore using stock pistons, ported head,cams and a good pipe..this is real world no bs numbers that i have seen out of many gen1's done by many of the biggest names in this part of the sport..

that's normally what I woudl have said Dwayne, but now there are these young new guys like Fred Vance that get motors built that seem to make a new level of power and its not just like the old dyno manipulation....can't fake 235mph in a 1350cc N/A class.

I've never seen it, but I really do think they could make 205 on a stock bore and stroke, even on the dyno I use or on your tightwad dyno. 

[gsx-rboy750]

I came in here to see a 1300 rwhp bike 

+1

[FlaminRoo]

"that's normally what I woudl have said Dwayne, but now there are these young new guys like Fred Vance that get motors built that seem to make a new level of power and its not just like the old dyno manipulation....can't fake 235mph in a 1350cc N/A class. "

there always seems to be conjecture, those folks that claim around  180's, and another bunch saying 200+ ,, at least Freds bike has the runs to back the 230hp up with, then again its a dedicated LSR bike, ,, 
there seems to be no real noticable differance between the 1298's and 1340's, when you think about it, what great advantage is there in having the extra 10.5cc per hole, ,,

[RansomT]

It takes darn near 200 wHP to run 200 MPH.  I've got a whole stack of time slips in the 210-211 mph range.  Heck fellars, my BMW S1000 makes 182 wHP and it's stock down to the exhaust but I did tune it with a PCV.

[STREETDRAG]

"that's normally what I woudl have said Dwayne, but now there are these young new guys like Fred Vance that get motors built that seem to make a new level of power and its not just like the old dyno manipulation....can't fake 235mph in a 1350cc N/A class. "

there always seems to be conjecture, those folks that claim around  180's, and another bunch saying 200+ ,, at least Freds bike has the runs to back the 230hp up with, then again its a dedicated LSR bike, ,, 
there seems to be no real noticable differance between the 1298's and 1340's, when you think about it, what great advantage is there in having the extra 10.5cc per hole, ,,

Torque Is the Answer, It's what propels the bike, Hp just keeps it going...

[STREETDRAG]

205hp out of a 1298 is achievable but your gonna need higher compression pistons, a crank lightened and worked for good oiling, good fuel needed cause it's not gonna happen on pump gas, a great pipe and a head/cam combination that really works well together coupled with the right gearing and it's attainable. I didn't say it was gonna be a easy cranking street bike motor though...


Anybody know the ACTUAL most hp out of a stock stroke 1298 made to date?


 

i am  interested to know what rear wheel horsepower a naturally aspirated 1298cc (Gen 1) is capable of making, with headwork,  cams, pipe, etc,??, .  dyno numbers, real not fanticy, 

180'ish depending on what fuel you put it on..this is based around a stock bore using stock pistons, ported head,cams and a good pipe..this is real world no bs numbers that i have seen out of many gen1's done by many of the biggest names in this part of the sport..

that's normally what I woudl have said Dwayne, but now there are these young new guys like Fred Vance that get motors built that seem to make a new level of power and its not just like the old dyno manipulation....can't fake 235mph in a 1350cc N/A class.

I've never seen it, but I really do think they could make 205 on a stock bore and stroke, even on the dyno I use or on your tightwad dyno. 

[sportbikeryder]

If anyone is in the western PA area and has a 200+ HP stock pistoned busa, I will arrange for getting it on the dyno I use. No charge, I'd just like to see it. You can do some tuning or whatever you want while its on there.

[RansomT]

Here you go ..... My LSR 1300 cc Busa right before the September event at Wilmington.  Wiseco 13:1 drop ins, Carpenter head/cam package, Ti Exhaust.  Run was done N/A with C16 in the tank.  I was trying to tune out the lean spike at 4K RPM.  I just happen to have this dyno run on my pin drive at work while reading these post.  BTW, I get on occasion a bike to tune that Brock had on his dyno and I normally show 2-3 HP less on my dyno.

[fvance]

I think compression  and head and cams is the key. I run about 13-1 compression and the Carpenter head and 443/425 cams. Also the gas. I made 228 on ERC 102octane unleaded, 234 on VP MR12. I think Ransom was probably running c16 with the thought of spraying it. C16 is too high octane for a, relatively, low octane motor.

[RansomT]

I think compression  and head and cams is the key. I run about 13-1 compression and the Carpenter head and 443/425 cams. Also the gas. I made 228 on ERC 102octane unleaded, 234 on VP MR12. I think Ransom was probably running c16 with the thought of spraying it. C16 is too high octane for a, relatively, low octane motor.

Thanks Fred.  I should have mentioned that I am set up now to spray and I just happened to have C16 in the tank.  I wasn't trying to make max HP, just tunning out a lean spot.

[fvance]

I knew that!! MR12 is some magic stuff. Where can you buy 6hp for 30 bucks a gallon!!

[yvesgsxr1300]

I think compression  and head and cams is the key. I run about 13-1 compression and the Carpenter head and 443/425 cams. Also the gas. I made 228 on ERC 102octane unleaded, 234 on VP MR12. I think Ransom was probably running c16 with the thought of spraying it. C16 is too high octane for a, relatively, low octane motor.

Fvance.....you running the gen II 1340 to achieve that #.........chit....   234HP stock bore ...1298 or 1340 this is an achievement.........

[fvance]

Gen1 with gen2 crank, rods & pistons.

[Cycle Concepts]

If anyone is in the western PA area and has a 200+ HP stock pistoned busa, I will arrange for getting it on the dyno I use. No charge, I'd just like to see it. You can do some tuning or whatever you want while its on there.

I'm with you on this one John...I'll give the dyno to them the entire day, a 5gal pal of vp fuel of there choice..I just have to see this with my own eyes..

[speedduck]

234hp is amazing, usually what i had and my friends have with 1397cc, it stops, or gets tough around 200hp. But, as said, 235mph doesn`t come without power. Now i have 239hp but it`s 1622cc.

[speedduck]

Just let me know when JC is touring northern Europe, i could arrange a day on a Dynojet or Dynostar 

I would like to go back to Holland with my wife again her homeland

From there it`s still 1200 miles and one more ocean 

[yvesgsxr1300]

Gen1 with gen2 crank, rods & pistons.

 

How much horsepower you attribute to the crankshaft only gen 1 vs gen II crank with rod and pistons setup........what i mean is if you could put back the gen 1 crank + gen 1 rod-pistons  in that 234hp combo how many horsepower you think you gonna loose...?

[fvance]

I dont know. For LSR I would not use an OEM gen1 piston. I would think with some 13 to 14-1 pistons, good gas, some head and cams, you should be able to get around 215-220hp.

[yvesgsxr1300]

I dont know. For LSR I would not use an OEM gen1 piston. I would think with some 13 to 14-1 pistons, good gas, some head and cams, you should be able to get around 215-220hp.

 

[FlaminRoo]

imho, there is no one part that you install that will see a massive increase in horsepower,(except a turbo), everything has to interact correctly, from the mouth of the ramair thru to the end tip of the exhaust,, most folks  have all the fruit in there, but, as Fred has stated, it takes a "good" tuner to get the air/fuel/spark thing to make it happen, 

[FlaminRoo]

there seems to be no real noticable differance between the 1298's and 1340's, when you think about it, what great advantage is there in having the extra 10.5cc per hole, ,,
[/quote]

Torque Is the Answer, It's what propels the bike, Hp just keeps it going...
[/quote]

Without Torque you have no horsepower, horsepower is  a byproduct of torque,

[glenn71]

i built a 1340 with a sae head 395/378 at 106/108,13.6:1 comp,it makes 215hp on pump fuel/116ft/lbs.on a stock length gen1 its run 159 mph so far,will run over 160mph and run 8,s stock length hand clutch, total sleeper,stock wheels,the only external clues are a pipe and 24volt cranking.i believe the same motor as a 1299 would make low 200,s.Ive ridden 1299,s,1340,s,1441,s,1507,1580.Put me on either one and not tell me what it is and i reckon i can guess,they all deliver their power differently.the 1340 feels the most boring because its power delivery is the most linear.i agree with mike,the 1340,s make great power when modded the right ways,the other side of the coin is though,their fast but they dont feel fast,so they dont give the adrenalin rush for your dollar on the street that a bigger bore motor with closer cam centreline would.Im building a 1580 streeter to acheive precisely that,torque on tap.mmmm.

[surprenant]

VFANCE....what stage CARPENTER head...stock valves??And what is your cranking compression??Cause years ago i think was 2000 i had a stock head GEN1 with YOSH 's,drop in ,regular pump fuel....was about 190hp....then we started to go up till i hit 10.5 stroke x 85mm bore ,WARD head again....on c44 fuel..hit 282hp only 1mm oversize intake stock size exaust,415-395 exaust......181mph in the quater........had a few 5x4mm motors all around 257hp but nitrous motor....this year 1441 13 to1 stock valve ported over 220hp on .....C12....will be raising the compression this year.....i figure with oxy fuel easy 240hp....but i just don't like using oxy fuel......1441 picked up about 2mph so i figure close to 10hp but i rather not........

Story short you can easely make 230  whatever on a stock bore stock stroke GEN1......Just need high compression,good head and good cams and everything put together right......some think cause they use 13 to 1 everyone has only 13 to 1.....but depending on head,shaving ,cams etc......you can lower or raise that number......and compression is hp....

And once you got a stock bore and stroke up to lets say 18 to 1 and great head cams etc.........every mill either on stroke or bore won't get you much more than 4 to 5 hp max...everything being the same..........compression ratio ,head,a little bigger cams.....it gets expensive to pick up hp from there.

A lot of peolple tend to think they got junk or robbed.....but there is a whole lot they don't know....combo's need to work together......you can take pistons lets say 13 to 1 but in reality you can cut them up or use turbo uncut pistons and bump the compression very high and again pick up hp.......motors are not all the same,dyno's are not all the same.and bikes are not all the same.....way too many variables here......

[speedduck]

i built a 1340 with a sae head 395/378 at 106/108,13.6:1 comp,it makes 215hp on pump fuel

My friend is just getting similar combo and i wish he goes over 200, rwhp that is, maybe 215 from crank.
What dyno and standard was that 215 ?

[glenn71]

it was an eddy current dyno,its quite realistic
as ive mphd using 213hp with it within
3 passes and in good air on the track i can
out mph the dynos hp.lots of attention
to the little things all came together with
that engine.this is a stock length hand clutched
fully dressed street bike,17/40-41 gearing.

[glenn71]

i raced  a 1299 with 12:1 ported head,yosh cams
large airbox mod with long factory pro gen2
busa stacks(50mm id),it ran on e10 and made
right around 180hp 100ft/lbs and regularly ran
183hp to mph at the trackin very average air and ran up to over
190hp to mph on a freezing cold night.very mild
setup that used as little as 20kms/litre
on the street cruising,if that had 13.5:1 with
bigger cams with windowed gen2 barrels,ti valves
ceramic coated pistons and no counterbalancer,lighter rods and
light cp pistons,id put money on it making 200hp,110ft/lbs.

[Competition CNC]

i am  interested to know what rear wheel horsepower a naturally aspirated 1298cc (Gen 1) is capable of making, with headwork,  cams, pipe, etc,??, .  dyno numbers, real not fanticy, 

If its going to run on race fuel we have seen 221-222 hp on a stock bore and stroke Busa with our head and cam package.
This combo set a record at Bonneville this past season around 218 or so mph.  One of the runs was clocked at 222 mph.  It bumped the old record by about 7 mph.  If you want details of the bike ask Richard Sims.  It was our head and cam package but he built and raced the bike.

If its a street bike on pump gas your talking about 200-205 hp.

[FlaminRoo]

i am  interested to know what rear wheel horsepower a naturally aspirated 1298cc (Gen 1) is capable of making, with headwork,  cams, pipe, etc,??, .  dyno numbers, real not fanticy, 

If its going to run on race fuel we have seen 221-222 hp on a stock bore and stroke Busa with our head and cam package.
This combo set a record at Bonneville this past season around 218 or so mph.  One of the runs was clocked at 222 mph.  It bumped the old record by about 7 mph.  If you want details of the bike ask Richard Sims.  It was our head and cam package but he built and raced the bike.

If its a street bike on pump gas your talking about 200-205 hp.

Thankyou Jim for this informed answer, ,

[sgvridgerunner]

i am  interested to know what rear wheel horsepower a naturally aspirated 1298cc (Gen 1) is capable of making, with headwork,  cams, pipe, etc,??, .  dyno numbers, real not fanticy, 

If its going to run on race fuel we have seen 221-222 hp on a stock bore and stroke Busa with our head and cam package.
This combo set a record at Bonneville this past season around 218 or so mph.  One of the runs was clocked at 222 mph.  It bumped the old record by about 7 mph.  If you want details of the bike ask Richard Sims.  It was our head and cam package but he built and raced the bike.

If its a street bike on pump gas your talking about 200-205 hp.

Thanks for a great product Jim! I'm running your head on the same Sims motor. Actually there's a few of us, and we all make over 220. He speaks the truth you guys. Contact Richard www.simsmotorsports.com for an easy 200hp, and tell him I sent ya.
-Dave

[80 Theory]

I did one of Carpenter's drive in - drive out packages with the intention of racing 1350 Production at Maxton.  I talked to Bob about what I wanted to do and he provided the horsepower.  The motor made 216.6/117.1 on Bob's dyno.  The bike was also on Ryan Schnitz's dyno where it made 215.66/117.64, through stock mufflers that had the baffles drilled.  It was a Gen 1 with Gen 2 crank.  I would not call it "streetable" unless you want to run race gas (17:1 compression).  I went 203 and change at Maxton and 206 at Loring in Production.

The motor is now a 1634 billet stroker and makes 284/181.  It has gone 215 at Wilmington, 220 at Bonneville and 225 at Loring.

Mike Brakel

[fvance]

I think Mike also ran 202 at Goliad in production trim. My 1340 with OEM crank, rods and pistons, in production trim, ran 202 at Goliad and 213 at Bonneville. In MPS it ran 228 at Bonneville, 222 at Mojave 1.5. At Loring, with Brenda Sue riding ran216 in a mile and 221 1.5mi. Brenda ran a 202, naked at Bonneville. The 1350 ran 235 at Bonneville and 209 naked at Loring. I think the 1340 with some milder cams would make a great street motor.
 Mikes bike has lots more in it.