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Author Topic: Engine won't start  (Read 18452 times)

Offline Lunatic

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Engine won't start
« on: February 23, 2013, 09:00:57 AM »
I have what I call a Minibusa.  Tube frame, fiberglass body road race car with a turbo charged Hayabusa.
The engine is what I think a 2007 but it has the early 16 bit charging system and ECU.  I am also using the Power Comander Dyno Jet 3. 
Last week end at Thunderhill the engine started cutting out, missing.  At 1st it sounded like it was only running on 3 or 2 cylinders but now it won't even start.  I have done a compression check and all 4 cylinders are the same, watched the injectors and all 4 are squirting, switched several set's of plugs, and coils but the engine now refuses to start.  It won't even fire on ether.  I have watched the plugs out side the engine and all 4 are firing but extremely weak, you can hardly see the spark. 
With the ignition on I am showing 12.75 volts but when I hit the starter button that drops to high 10s, low 11's. 

I really need some help here, any ideas?
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Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2013, 09:04:32 AM »
Do you have gauges on the car (stock Hayabusa gauges)? Are they showing any codes?

Could be a fault with the Cam sensor.

Also could be the crank sensor. Pull the stator cover off and check to see if there is a builup of metallic debris on the crank sensor tip.
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Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.392, 176.79mph 1/8th mile  6.610, 228.15mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline Lunatic

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2013, 09:40:03 AM »
Sadly I bought a re-done wiring harness from Down's Engineering that eliminated all the bike safety features and also the stock dash, so I can't look up any codes.
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Offline Lunatic

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2013, 09:41:06 AM »
I have tried two different cam sensors so it's not that.
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Offline turbojonn

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2013, 10:16:55 AM »
Bad stator?
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Offline knecum

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2013, 07:02:01 PM »
disconnect the pc 3  check the tip over
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Offline Lunatic

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2013, 07:08:17 PM »
Today I changed the stator. no help.
I don't have a tip over relay. 

So I bought new plugs, and it started but only runs on 2 and 4.  Cylinders 1 and 3 are dead.  Same problem as what originally happened. 
So I changed the injectors on 1 and 3, no help. 

I'm stuck.

What is a PC 3?
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Offline knecum

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2013, 07:17:01 PM »
Quote from: Lunatic on February 23, 2013, 07:08:17 PM
Today I changed the stator. no help.
I don't have a tip over relay. 

So I bought new plugs, and it started but only runs on 2 and 4.  Cylinders 1 and 3 are dead.  Same problem as what originally happened. 
So I changed the injectors on 1 and 3, no help. 

I'm stuck.

What is a PC 3?
   powercommander!!  what did you do to disable tip over? thru ecu?
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Offline Lunatic

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2013, 12:47:01 AM »
I don't know what was done.  I bought a harness custom wired for a car.
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Offline Jon

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Engine won't start
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2013, 04:40:41 AM »
What voltage do you get at the battery when it is running?
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Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2013, 09:15:28 AM »
Like Knecum noted, remove the power commander and see if it starts. They can sometimes go south and cause issues, especially if it is a "3R" and is connected to the crank pickup.
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Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.392, 176.79mph 1/8th mile  6.610, 228.15mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline Lunatic

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2013, 09:21:50 AM »
I have tried it with out the power comander and that didn't make any difference. 
I am using two light weight Bralle Racing batteries.  I have checked the voltage but don't remember the exact numbers.  I'll re-check it.
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Offline knecum

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2013, 05:51:14 PM »
Check the coils like I said and if you have a ecu try that
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Offline Lunatic

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2013, 09:42:28 AM »
I already tried changing the coils, no good.  A friend is sending me a new ECU to try.
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Offline GSXRTURBO1

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2013, 10:33:04 AM »
Try the new ECU, and also try a different battery. Just use an automotive battery with external or extended connections. If the voltage drops too much, I don't think the coils will fire, and if your charging system isn't working properly you may not have enough voltage. I believe that's why someone asked what the voltage was when it was "running"
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Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2013, 11:32:48 AM »
Might check to be sure the Throttle bodies have not come loose from the head spigot. I had this happen once (from WAAAAY overboosting a turbo bike) and it was a distinct miss upon restart. I though I killed a piston but it turned out to be problem with the TB to head boot. I know you are not turbocharged, but this could possibly explain why it won;t run with starting fluid as well.
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Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.392, 176.79mph 1/8th mile  6.610, 228.15mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline Lunatic

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2013, 12:49:26 PM »
Quote from: sportbikeryder on February 25, 2013, 11:32:48 AM
Might check to be sure the Throttle bodies have not come loose from the head spigot. I had this happen once (from WAAAAY overboosting a turbo bike) and it was a distinct miss upon restart. I though I killed a piston but it turned out to be problem with the TB to head boot. I know you are not turbocharged, but this could possibly explain why it won;t run with starting fluid as well.

Throttle Bodies are good, Actually I am turbo charged, not much, 8 psi boost is all on pump gas but plenty for what I am running.  This gives me a real good balance between power and traction.
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Offline Lunatic

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2013, 12:51:35 PM »
Quote from: GSXRTURBO1 on February 25, 2013, 10:33:04 AM
Try the new ECU, and also try a different battery. Just use an automotive battery with external or extended connections. If the voltage drops too much, I don't think the coils will fire, and if your charging system isn't working properly you may not have enough voltage. I believe that's why someone asked what the voltage was when it was "running"

I have tried 3 different batteries, one jump box, and my 1972 Land Rover with jumper cables running at 2000 rpm.
Static battery voltage is 13.5, When I hit the starter it drops to 11.3.
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Offline Lunatic

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2013, 12:52:35 PM »
Just checked the mail, the replacement ECU didn't come.
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Offline Lunatic

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2013, 12:53:18 PM »
Is anyone running a stand alone system like the Megasquirt?
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Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2013, 04:25:55 PM »
Quote from: Lunatic on February 25, 2013, 12:49:26 PM
Quote from: sportbikeryder on February 25, 2013, 11:32:48 AM
Might check to be sure the Throttle bodies have not come loose from the head spigot. I had this happen once (from WAAAAY overboosting a turbo bike) and it was a distinct miss upon restart. I though I killed a piston but it turned out to be problem with the TB to head boot. I know you are not turbocharged, but this could possibly explain why it won;t run with starting fluid as well.

Throttle Bodies are good, Actually I am turbo charged, not much, 8 psi boost is all on pump gas but plenty for what I am running.  This gives me a real good balance between power and traction.

Re-read the forst post and see that you did mention turbo.

What were the compression values for each cylinder when you did the test?

I'd pull the valve cover and see if the upper camchain guide may be broken off.
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Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.392, 176.79mph 1/8th mile  6.610, 228.15mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline moparict

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2013, 06:54:29 PM »
Quote from: Lunatic on February 25, 2013, 12:53:18 PM
Is anyone running a stand alone system like the Megasquirt?

I ran a secondary system on my Busa and have helped tune several that were run on cars.  They are simple and straight forward.
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Offline Lunatic

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2013, 07:21:53 PM »

Re-read the forst post and see that you did mention turbo.

What were the compression values for each cylinder when you did the test?

I'd pull the valve cover and see if the upper camchain guide may be broken off.
[/quote]

The engine has a spacer to lower the compression ratio.  All 4 cylinders were between 110 and 120 psi.
I did pull the valve cover to check timing mostly, to make sure the chain haddn't jumped a tooth.
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Offline Rossco

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2013, 02:16:26 AM »
Which power commander is it?? PCIIIUSB or PC3r. IF it's a 3r did you disconnect the crank sensor wires and replug the stock connectors when you "disconnected" the power commander? BTW if it is a 3r, bin it.
 
Does it crank over for a long time, give a few backfires, stink of raw fuel and then sometimes fire up? If yes; read above.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 02:28:35 AM by Rossco »
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Offline Lunatic

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Re: Engine won't start
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2013, 07:47:25 PM »
Quote from: Rossco on February 26, 2013, 02:16:26 AM
Which power commander is it?? PCIIIUSB or PC3r. IF it's a 3r did you disconnect the crank sensor wires and replug the stock connectors when you "disconnected" the power commander? BTW if it is a 3r, bin it.
 
Does it crank over for a long time, give a few backfires, stink of raw fuel and then sometimes fire up? If yes; read above.

I have the PC111USB.  It only cranks briefly, fires right up, but only on 2 cylinders.
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