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Author Topic: How big of a shot on stock motor  (Read 5861 times)

Offline redirider

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How big of a shot on stock motor
« on: July 31, 2013, 10:32:24 PM »
Hi, everybody, I sold my victory hammer and now I am seriously looking for a turbo busa, but there is a 2008 really close to me that looks pretty sweet and has a 100hp nitrous set up. It was dynoed and set up correctly. The owner has only ran 2 bottles through it and hasn't had it to the track. The engine is stock and I guess that's my question. Will the stock second gen motor handle a 100 horse shot every now and then? By the way I might take it to the track once or twice a summer and just hit the juice once in a great while whenever I feel the need to sheet my pants... :D
Thanks in advance,
George

Offline sportbikeryder

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2013, 06:05:14 AM »
I wouldn't spray that much on a bone stock motor. You didn't mention what fuel, but I certainly wouldn't do it on pump gas.

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Offline moparict

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2013, 08:07:46 AM »
A famous tuner around Wichita says, "Pill it till you kill it and then back up one."  With that in mind, I'm with Sportbikeryder.  I can't see a stock Gen 2 motor taking that much nitrous without some sort of supporting mods like valve springs and such.  I would certainly ask questions like, who tuned it?  What mods were done to support that much spray?  What fuel was it tuned on?  Where are the dyno sheets?  Where are the receipts?  A bike with a 100 shot SHOULD have a Nitrous Controller on it also.  That much spray instantaneously will make it do moon wheelies on it's roofie bars!!

Be overly cautious.  Don't take anyones word for anything.  The days of shaking a man's hand and it meaning something are pretty much over (few and far between).  Everyone on a busa has the fastest busa around.  They all make eleventy billion horsey powers and run 652 mph.  Don't get caught up in the crap.  Best advice I can give.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 08:09:27 AM by moparict »

Offline wildphil69

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2013, 10:42:38 AM »
im with these guys. i have heard of guys splitting keepers in the gen 2 valve train with only a 40 shot!! i have one in my shop right now that HAD a carpenter motor in it and there are dropped valves everywhere.
Nitrous is like a hot chick with STD'S...You know you wanna hit it but your just not sure of the consequences.

Offline redirider

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2013, 12:43:42 PM »
Thanks for the info guys...Think I'll keep looking...

Offline Rocketgeezer

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2013, 03:10:02 PM »
Thanks for the info guys...Think I'll keep looking...
If you can get this bike for the right price you can always tone down the nitrous, as theguys were saying a 100 shot is a lot on a stock gen2, compression is a bit high for that much on pump gas you may get away with it on race gas with a near perfect map, on pump gas I would keep it around a 40 shot
The older you get do you notice you start chickening out way before the bike does

Offline redirider

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2013, 09:09:28 PM »
Thanks Geezer, the owner says it is a nitrous express setup installed and dynoed by Coopers Motorcycle in Pine Bluff Akansas. It has a PCIII and is set up on pump gas. The bike is lowered and has an extended swing arm and 5300 miles on it. I think I could buy it for $8500.00 or pretty close. I don't really even care too much about the 100 shot and like Geezer said would probably go down to a safer spray.
Thanks,

Offline canotechperformance

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2015, 07:53:03 PM »
Hi, everybody, I sold my victory hammer and now I am seriously looking for a turbo busa, but there is a 2008 really close to me that looks pretty sweet and has a 100hp nitrous set up. It was dynoed and set up correctly. The owner has only ran 2 bottles through it and hasn't had it to the track. The engine is stock and I guess that's my question. Will the stock second gen motor handle a 100 horse shot every now and then? By the way I might take it to the track once or twice a summer and just hit the juice once in a great while whenever I feel the need to sheet my pants... :D
Thanks in advance,
George

try more like a 35 shot.. that should work

Offline wildphil69

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2015, 05:31:36 PM »
This was posted in 2013 dude
Nitrous is like a hot chick with STD'S...You know you wanna hit it but your just not sure of the consequences.

Offline Ghost-Geezer

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2015, 10:51:21 PM »
That being said, on a stock motor with .395 (moderate) cams,springs,titanium keepers, and 13.2 points compression, what would you say that was safe, Phil?  I am playing with a 25 lb shot on top of the 206 the bike makes now..............how hard would that be to and do safely for the engine.  I would use it mainly in 5th and 6th.

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Offline Big Pk

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2018, 05:24:23 PM »
whilst a very old topic and not sure if should open a new topic for similar queries, what kind of mods are suggested in order to use Nos for an increase 40 hp?Having High compression in the bike with forged pistons ( JE or similar) and  Ape valve springs , studs and nuts.

The use will be occasional ie abt 2 spraying per month max..

Not sure but have been told that there are two types of JE pistons and one of them can handle better under Nos use

Ps this is for a GSXR 1000 k3

Thank you
RCC STAGE 1 ( ball bearing) with plenum/ intercooler, head ported, carillo rods, Wossner pistons, SS valves, cam chain/ tensioner APE, Tool steel shift shafts, billet throttle body clamps, 62 lbs injector,billet sprocket cover, Ams 1000, Zeitronix (Zt -2), Brocks exhaust, PVM Wheels, Brocks triple clamp ( lowered 5 cm front), Macintosh swing arm, GPR stabilizer etc etc

Online RansomT

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2018, 08:19:15 PM »
1/8 or 1/4 mile?   With a rich tune, I have set up probably a 100 gsxrs with a 35-40 shot on a stock motor without issues.   Fuel system needs to be strong, especially on a 03-04.
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Offline Big Pk

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2018, 04:45:29 AM »
Hi, it would not be for drag use.. assume 1/4 mile or till bike reach 300 km with 6gear from roll 2nd gear or 3rd gear at 100 km

A big bore 1070 cc will be installed along with JE pistons of high compression. Dont want to retard the timing. Fuel system will be properly set up as being rich enough and avoid any danger of running lean.

With present mod
JE Pistons
Valve springs, stunds and nuts from APE, shall i use a more jet safely? or stay safe to max 40-50 hp?

Another question, how much HP is lost on rear wheel? i use for example 40 hp Jet but how max of this will end up in rear wheel? i understand it may depend from many factors but just asking an estimate

Thanks

RCC STAGE 1 ( ball bearing) with plenum/ intercooler, head ported, carillo rods, Wossner pistons, SS valves, cam chain/ tensioner APE, Tool steel shift shafts, billet throttle body clamps, 62 lbs injector,billet sprocket cover, Ams 1000, Zeitronix (Zt -2), Brocks exhaust, PVM Wheels, Brocks triple clamp ( lowered 5 cm front), Macintosh swing arm, GPR stabilizer etc etc

Online RansomT

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2018, 04:00:35 PM »
Hi, it would not be for drag use.. assume 1/4 mile or till bike reach 300 km with 6gear from roll 2nd gear or 3rd gear at 100 km

A big bore 1070 cc will be installed along with JE pistons of high compression. Dont want to retard the timing. Fuel system will be properly set up as being rich enough and avoid any danger of running lean.

With present mod
JE Pistons
Valve springs, stunds and nuts from APE, shall i use a more jet safely? or stay safe to max 40-50 hp?

Another question, how much HP is lost on rear wheel? i use for example 40 hp Jet but how max of this will end up in rear wheel? i understand it may depend from many factors but just asking an estimate

Thanks


A couple of things ...(1) 03-04 gsxrs have the smallest sized injectors.  We have built 1070cc with a small shot of nitrous and have ran out of injector. (maybe, you can bump the FPR and make it safe)   (2) high compression and nitrous is not the best combination especially when you don't want to pull timing. 


If you just fog the box or use a WON based set up, a 40 HP shot will yield 40+ HP to the wheels.  Using most of the spray bars that the big name folks sell, 40 HP jets will yield around 32 wHP.  This is because most spray bars dump most the nitrous in #1 and #2 cylinders.
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Offline Big Pk

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2018, 04:58:46 PM »
FPR?

1.Injectors will be used from k6.
2. JE claims that the round  skirt piston is stronger and recommended for Nitrous.

3. Understand that high comp and nitrous may be a problem. I do not want the bike to struggle without using Nos that is why i decided ro increase comp as k3/k4 do not have high comp from stock..

4. Since i want to maintain high comp as rarely will use Nos, i thought by spraying max 40 hp ( or 32 hp at the wheel) having abt 10% increase in fuel thus keeping it rich, would avoid any problem.

5. Cylinder head along with cams will be used from k6 ( have one spare in good condition) or alternatively from k8..
Do not know if using cylinder head from K8 this would add  any substantial  power at all  in relation to the cylinder head from k6 ( both cases the head will be ported)
RCC STAGE 1 ( ball bearing) with plenum/ intercooler, head ported, carillo rods, Wossner pistons, SS valves, cam chain/ tensioner APE, Tool steel shift shafts, billet throttle body clamps, 62 lbs injector,billet sprocket cover, Ams 1000, Zeitronix (Zt -2), Brocks exhaust, PVM Wheels, Brocks triple clamp ( lowered 5 cm front), Macintosh swing arm, GPR stabilizer etc etc

Offline Big Pk

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2018, 09:27:04 AM »
any reply??

Using as engine internals the below, how much jet can one safely use?

1/ JE pistons , round skirt.  It is  claimed that round skirt is better and more reliable once using Nos.
2/ New metals/ bearings for the rods and Crankshaft.
3/ Valve springs APE as well as studs and nuts for extra " tightening the cylinder head etc"

Would it be safe lets say to spray abt 60 hp?

Cylinder head will be used from k8 ( 1000), injectors from k8 as well as ECU from K8

Thanks,

RCC STAGE 1 ( ball bearing) with plenum/ intercooler, head ported, carillo rods, Wossner pistons, SS valves, cam chain/ tensioner APE, Tool steel shift shafts, billet throttle body clamps, 62 lbs injector,billet sprocket cover, Ams 1000, Zeitronix (Zt -2), Brocks exhaust, PVM Wheels, Brocks triple clamp ( lowered 5 cm front), Macintosh swing arm, GPR stabilizer etc etc

Offline Ali123

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2018, 10:31:52 AM »
its gotta be TUNED properly.... cylinder pressures can get insane and can destoy any type of "built motor".... I don't care if Christ himself built it.... strong fuel system

Offline Big Pk

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2018, 10:39:14 AM »
Yes, assuming that tuning is set up properly, does the internals used can handle abt 60 hp spraying???

Should other engine internals recommended?? or it would be waste of money?

MPS has at their website published a guide and they allege that no engine mods required until 50 hp. Over the 50 hp, they say that engine mods are required without specifying.
RCC STAGE 1 ( ball bearing) with plenum/ intercooler, head ported, carillo rods, Wossner pistons, SS valves, cam chain/ tensioner APE, Tool steel shift shafts, billet throttle body clamps, 62 lbs injector,billet sprocket cover, Ams 1000, Zeitronix (Zt -2), Brocks exhaust, PVM Wheels, Brocks triple clamp ( lowered 5 cm front), Macintosh swing arm, GPR stabilizer etc etc

Offline Ali123

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2018, 10:56:40 AM »
honestly man... ill PM you a nitrous experts number and info tomorrow... if ure going into the motor I would beef it up... but from my understanding on these motors.. valve springs are important and overall valve stability is vital... and gixx1300r has some unbelievable spraybars and nitrous products

Online RansomT

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2018, 08:08:53 PM »
any reply??

Using as engine internals the below, how much jet can one safely use?

1/ JE pistons , round skirt.  It is  claimed that round skirt is better and more reliable once using Nos.
2/ New metals/ bearings for the rods and Crankshaft.
3/ Valve springs APE as well as studs and nuts for extra " tightening the cylinder head etc"

Would it be safe lets say to spray abt 60 hp?

Cylinder head will be used from k8 ( 1000), injectors from k8 as well as ECU from K8

Thanks,


If you use K8 parts, head, throttle bodies injectors, ECU wiring harness; then yes.  If tuned properly and correct race fuel.
Fastest 1.5-Mile Pass - 252.222
Fastest 1-Mile Pass - 244.2997
Half Mile - 211.47
Fastest Nitrous Bike
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211.079 LTA. P/P 1350

Offline Nosgsx1300

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2018, 04:59:24 AM »
I know little about 1k  motor parts strength and compression,     
Gen 1 busa I ran a 50 shot for years and a 60 shot for a year

Did high comp 13.6-1 1397 with .401/.378 cams   that I sprayed a 80 for laughs but I couldn't ride it
smaller shot earlier in the run for what I was doing netted more gains then the larger shots, even with the controller I was using


Got into landspeed racing got my A license on spray, then realized EVENTUALLY was going to end up turbo for LSR.......and another chapter began
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Offline Big Pk

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Re: How big of a shot on stock motor
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2018, 11:12:00 AM »
Hi Nos,

Thanks for the input.

Yes, i am considering small shots of max 40 hp around just for some fun..no controller will be used here.

RCC STAGE 1 ( ball bearing) with plenum/ intercooler, head ported, carillo rods, Wossner pistons, SS valves, cam chain/ tensioner APE, Tool steel shift shafts, billet throttle body clamps, 62 lbs injector,billet sprocket cover, Ams 1000, Zeitronix (Zt -2), Brocks exhaust, PVM Wheels, Brocks triple clamp ( lowered 5 cm front), Macintosh swing arm, GPR stabilizer etc etc