- The LSR Launch -

[SEJ]

Density altitude was 500' worse in the afternoon, which robs power:

Do you think that the % difference in humidity more than offsets the 500'? I'm no expert, not even close and trying to learn all of the time, but a 21% drop makes a lot more room for more oxygen.

Density altitude is calculated with temperature AND humidity. Temperature has by far the most affect on engine power.

Shane

I should add that I'm talking about the Density altitude calculation...I'm VERY aware of the temperature part...

[SEJ]

Back to the original topic and tying it in with the heat equation... The 2012 July ECTA meet was my second LSR event ever. I was riding a bone stock 05' GSX-R1000. Stock motor, stock exhaust, stock wheel base, stock gearing. Guy wouldn't let me run production class because I had it lower than stock(1"- 1.5"), and a Suzuki double bubble style windscreen on it. I also made my own switchable TRE to get rid of the top speed restriction and to restore full timing in 1- 3rd gears. I was experimenting all weekend with different body positions and tucks. Hind end up and slid back on the hump, forward with helmet sealing the gap to the wind screen, somewhere in between, but always with elbows, knees, and toes tucked as much as possible and head as low as possible. But the biggest difference was made with how I left the starting line! By Sunday I was leaving the line as if I was drag racing it. Stock gearing with a close ratio trans equals a very tall 1st gear. With that in mind I was leaving with enough rpm's to NOT bog, not spin the tire, not wheelie, but get to WOT asap with VERY good forward drive by using the clutch. Brian at the starting line told me that I was leaving harder than anyone else there. Anyhow, I ended up running a best of 186.088 mph in over 100 degree weather which I am damn proud of. The NA bikes probable benefit from this the most, and the lower hp turbo/nitrous bikes like my turbo 1000.

[Warp12]

We have an '03 GSXR 1000 here that we have dragraced quite a bit; many moons ago we also ran it at Maxton.

It is hard to compare results of July 7-8 2012, for me, because there was a 10 degree difference in each day, and the winds were out of different directions.

What do your logs say? I am interested in how much mph your bike was gaining in the last 1000'. I suspect not very much. The 1000 aero's are not very good, and the power is not too much. At 186 mph with that setup, the bike is about done....unless you saw some wind assist.

Shane

[SEJ]

I wish that I could answer your question as I would like to know the answer myself. But I was not data logging. What mods were done to your 03' 1000 and how fast did it run? The 03' 1000's are physically larger (body wise) making it easier to get out of the airflow, the nose has a busa like shape to it. They don't have a close ratio trans, so 1st gear is shorter for better launches. They make less hp, but you probably had a full system that was tuned...probably making up the hp deficit not to mention dropping weight. I'm 5' 10" and 165 lbs. in street clothes, not leathers, helmet, boots, etc...

[Warp12]

I wish that I could answer your question as I would like to know the answer myself. But I was not data logging. What mods were done to your 03' 1000 and how fast did it run? The 03' 1000's are physically larger (body wise) making it easier to get out of the airflow, the nose has a busa like shape to it. They don't have a close ratio trans, so 1st gear is shorter for better launches. They make less hp, but you probably had a full system that was tuned...probably making up the hp deficit not to mention dropping weight. I'm 5' 10" and 165 lbs. in street clothes, not leathers, helmet, boots, etc...

That bike went 182.7 best with my gf riding (it's her bike). It didn't have a decent tune (downloaded map), but had an Arata, around 20k miles. I estimate the hp at about 145 sae. The bike only runs about 142-144 mph in the 1/4. In fact, it runs the same mph without a power commander! By comparison, she has run near 162 mph on my stock motor 14R. From what I have seen, the later GSXR's are a lot stronger, power-wise, than the early ones (not a big power change until '05, I believe).

We put a grudge racer on her 1k and he ran about .2s quicker than her best, at 9.33. Mph was the same, though. I would not be concerned about that tall first gear at all, because I wouldn't be trying to launch it like I was at the dragstrip. 

But on a serious note, the 1000 can put down a lot of power without sliding the clutch. To try an experiment, leave normally and just grab a big handful of throttle once the clutch is fully out. It won't take long for the power to come, and have the bike pointed skyward. And you won't have heated up those tiny clutch plates from sliding it to control wheelies. Overheat the clutch and you will definitely see that in your mph. Take it from someone who has changed a lot of GSXR clutches at the dragstrip!!

Shane

[SEJ]

I wish that I could answer your question as I would like to know the answer myself. But I was not data logging. What mods were done to your 03' 1000 and how fast did it run? The 03' 1000's are physically larger (body wise) making it easier to get out of the airflow, the nose has a busa like shape to it. They don't have a close ratio trans, so 1st gear is shorter for better launches. They make less hp, but you probably had a full system that was tuned...probably making up the hp deficit not to mention dropping weight. I'm 5' 10" and 165 lbs. in street clothes, not leathers, helmet, boots, etc...

That bike went 182.7 best with my gf riding (it's her bike). It didn't have a decent tune (downloaded map), but had an Arata, around 20k miles. I estimate the hp at about 145 sae. The bike only runs about 142-144 mph in the 1/4. In fact, it runs the same mph without a power commander! By comparison, she has run near 162 mph on my stock motor 14R. From what I have seen, the later GSXR's are a lot stronger, power-wise, than the early ones (not a big power change until '05, I believe).

We put a grudge racer on her 1k and he ran about .2s quicker than her best, at 9.33. Mph was the same, though. I would not be concerned about that tall first gear at all, because I wouldn't be trying to launch it like I was at the dragstrip. 

But on a serious note, the 1000 can put down a lot of power without sliding the clutch. To try an experiment, leave normally and just grab a big handful of throttle once the clutch is fully out. It won't take long for the power to come, and have the bike pointed skyward. And you won't have heated up those tiny clutch plates from sliding it to control wheelies. Overheat the clutch and you will definitely see that in your mph. Take it from someone who has changed a lot of GSXR clutches at the dragstrip!!

Shane

Oh I don't abuse the clutch!!! I've been drag racing bikes for 29 years. I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. The only time that I burned the clutches out of my 05' was 2 or 3 years ago when Doug Gall and myself were hot lapping at Edgewater against one another. He was on a gen1 busa. 05' 1000 clutches are even worse than your 03's... The old man kept taking it to him until the last pass of the night when they finally gave out on the big end. He kept rubbing it in that he was out 60' me...but that goes back to our earlier conversation of everything going to hell past the 60'...   

BTW...I don't ever remember seeing clutches that looked THAT bad coming out of a bike that I owned... 

[Warp12]

I wish that I could answer your question as I would like to know the answer myself. But I was not data logging. What mods were done to your 03' 1000 and how fast did it run? The 03' 1000's are physically larger (body wise) making it easier to get out of the airflow, the nose has a busa like shape to it. They don't have a close ratio trans, so 1st gear is shorter for better launches. They make less hp, but you probably had a full system that was tuned...probably making up the hp deficit not to mention dropping weight. I'm 5' 10" and 165 lbs. in street clothes, not leathers, helmet, boots, etc...

That bike went 182.7 best with my gf riding (it's her bike). It didn't have a decent tune (downloaded map), but had an Arata, around 20k miles. I estimate the hp at about 145 sae. The bike only runs about 142-144 mph in the 1/4. In fact, it runs the same mph without a power commander! By comparison, she has run near 162 mph on my stock motor 14R. From what I have seen, the later GSXR's are a lot stronger, power-wise, than the early ones (not a big power change until '05, I believe).

We put a grudge racer on her 1k and he ran about .2s quicker than her best, at 9.33. Mph was the same, though. I would not be concerned about that tall first gear at all, because I wouldn't be trying to launch it like I was at the dragstrip. 

But on a serious note, the 1000 can put down a lot of power without sliding the clutch. To try an experiment, leave normally and just grab a big handful of throttle once the clutch is fully out. It won't take long for the power to come, and have the bike pointed skyward. And you won't have heated up those tiny clutch plates from sliding it to control wheelies. Overheat the clutch and you will definitely see that in your mph. Take it from someone who has changed a lot of GSXR clutches at the dragstrip!!

Shane

Oh I don't abuse the clutch!!! I've been drag racing bikes for 29 years. I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. The only time that I burned the clutches out of my 05' was 2 or 3 years ago when Doug Gall and myself were hot lapping at Edgewater against one another. He was on a gen1 busa. 05' 1000 clutches are even worse than your 03's... The old man kept taking it to him until the last pass of the night when they finally gave out on the big end. He kept rubbing it in that he was out 60' me...but that goes back to our earlier conversation of everything going to hell past the 60'...   

BTW...I don't ever remember seeing clutches that looked THAT bad coming out of a bike that I owned... 

After 29 years racing at the dragstrip, I am sure you have seen a lot of crappy ET runs with big MPH. Someone once told me, "those runs are flukes". Well, they are only "flukes" if you don't understand why they happened. Understand that (the science), and you can turn a "fluke" into a consistent result.

Another thing you might look at, is...what is your throttle position when you are sliding the clutch, what happens to your fueling when you finally reach wot, and what conditions does the machine need to have in order to make maximum power?

Just some things to ponder. All part of the equation to get the most hp over the distance.

Shane

[knecum]

I wish that I could answer your question as I would like to know the answer myself. But I was not data logging. What mods were done to your 03' 1000 and how fast did it run? The 03' 1000's are physically larger (body wise) making it easier to get out of the airflow, the nose has a busa like shape to it. They don't have a close ratio trans, so 1st gear is shorter for better launches. They make less hp, but you probably had a full system that was tuned...probably making up the hp deficit not to mention dropping weight. I'm 5' 10" and 165 lbs. in street clothes, not leathers, helmet, boots, etc...

That bike went 182.7 best with my gf riding (it's her bike). It didn't have a decent tune (downloaded map), but had an Arata, around 20k miles. I estimate the hp at about 145 sae. The bike only runs about 142-144 mph in the 1/4. In fact, it runs the same mph without a power commander! By comparison, she has run near 162 mph on my stock motor 14R. From what I have seen, the later GSXR's are a lot stronger, power-wise, than the early ones (not a big power change until '05, I believe).

We put a grudge racer on her 1k and he ran about .2s quicker than her best, at 9.33. Mph was the same, though. I would not be concerned about that tall first gear at all, because I wouldn't be trying to launch it like I was at the dragstrip. 

But on a serious note, the 1000 can put down a lot of power without sliding the clutch. To try an experiment, leave normally and just grab a big handful of throttle once the clutch is fully out. It won't take long for the power to come, and have the bike pointed skyward. And you won't have heated up those tiny clutch plates from sliding it to control wheelies. Overheat the clutch and you will definitely see that in your mph. Take it from someone who has changed a lot of GSXR clutches at the dragstrip!!

Shane

Oh I don't abuse the clutch!!! I've been drag racing bikes for 29 years. I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. The only time that I burned the clutches out of my 05' was 2 or 3 years ago when Doug Gall and myself were hot lapping at Edgewater against one another. He was on a gen1 busa. 05' 1000 clutches are even worse than your 03's... The old man kept taking it to him until the last pass of the night when they finally gave out on the big end. He kept rubbing it in that he was out 60' me...but that goes back to our earlier conversation of everything going to hell past the 60'...   

BTW...I don't ever remember seeing clutches that looked THAT bad coming out of a bike that I owned... 

After 29 years racing at the dragstrip, I am sure you have seen a lot of crappy ET runs with big MPH. Someone once told me, "those runs are flukes". Well, they are only "flukes" if you don't understand why they happened. Understand that (the science), and you can turn a "fluke" into a consistent result.

Another thing you might look at, is...what is your throttle position when you are sliding the clutch, what happens to your fueling when you finally reach wot, and what conditions does the machine need to have in order to make maximum power?

Just some things to ponder. All part of the equation to get the most hp over the distance.

Shane

   How much do you charge to teach me the stuff you know?

[Warp12]

How much do you charge to teach me the stuff you know?

Free for you, Steve!