1 Mile Records,,

[FlaminRoo]

now that there are 3(?) x 1 mile, ( +2(?) in England, and a couple in Australia under investigation) venues to run at, has anyone thought off starting a records per class listings that covers outright records for "all" 1 mile tracks,??,,

it would appear that the mile venues are easyier (tarmac) to access for competition, and there is the posibility that in the USA and around the world more venues will come on line,, if we start now with standizing the rule book along with records this will give us the opptunity to compare apples with apples,

 

[scott g]

This is an excellent idea !

If we could have a common "base" with the same rules for all,
than speeds from all over the world could be compared,
and the best could be fairly rewarded.

There are, however, some problems.....

The "Grandaddy Mile" at Maxton, moved recently to Ohio.

When they moved to a new venue, the old ECTA records were
"discarded," and a "new" ECTA record book was started.

Many speeds, the best in the world, were "binned,"
and famous names "cast out."

There are rumors that the ECTA will start at another track,
in the deep American South, and that the Ohio records
will also be discarded.

Fight until you are on top of the hill,
and they bulldoze the hill out from under you....

[Frank06]

I never understood why changing a venue should negate standing records.  As long as the class rules are the same and the timing lights are positioned correctly, you'll have more variability due to wind conditions or temperature differences (IMHO of course).  Other organizations don't qualify records this way do they?  When the NHRA recognizes the current top fuel record they state the track location where it was achieved but mostly because it's interesting.



Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[scott g]

My "take" on the ECTA is this:

1)  When the ECTA moved to Ohio, many of the motorcycle
records were quite "mature," and faster than El Mirage,
Bonneville, Texas and Loring.

2)  The ECTA, thinking that a "fresh" record book
would bring in more customers, eliminated all the old records.

3)  The "new" records would encourage racers to spend more money,
and enter more classes to set more records.

4) One could imaging that part of the ECTA "business plan" is to
appeal to folks that desire to be members of the ECTA 200 mph Club.

5)  If the record to be broken is just "too high,"
than it is harder = more expensive for the racer.

6)  Bottom line:  Just eliminate all the old "tough" records,
and "resell" them all over again.  Great for the ECTA income stream,
easy to set records and join The 200 Club.

7) Tough for those of us who spent almost 15 years,
and thousands of dollars setting "records" that
we foolishly thought were "In The Books...."

[FlaminRoo]

i can understand where the ECTA are coming from, but, in reality thay are only establishing "Track Records", under the ECTA banner, ,

every motor racing venue has its own Track Records,, the majority of motor racing venues run under the umbrella of some govening orginisation that not only adminster the rules etc, but colleate "Official Outright/National Records",

im thinking its time in our sport for a World/National orginisation to be formed,, not to sure how it could be done, ,

[Got-Busa?]

Could be to get the old guys out of the retirement home and back racing instead of talking about the "good o'l days" on the race forum...

[scott g]

i can understand where the ECTA are coming from,
but, in reality they are only establishing "Track Records",
under the ECTA banner, ,

And, in fact, that is what they do.

They call them "Ohio track records."

This is a slight change of course,
and also slightly "revisionist," since
as recently as three years ago, records
set at Maxton were called ECTA records,
and they are now called "Maxton" records.

That is, when they are called anything at all.
The ECTA seems to have "lost" their first 15
years of history from their web-site.  ALL
the class records for 1995-2010 are not listed anymore.

Likewise, there is no list of ECTA 200 Club members,
only the "Ohio Mile 200 mile per hour Club.....

(Interestingly, several folks - I included - set records
at the track in Moultrie, Georgia in the 1990's, and
those records were included with the Maxton records.)

[scott g]

Could be to get the old guys out of the retirement home and back racing instead of talking about the "good o'l days" on the race forum...

That didn't work for me.

I raced at Ohio this fall, but under someone
else's name.  I didn't want my "implied support"
of the ECTA record system on record.

Doesn't matter though.

When the ECTA moves to the next track,
the OHIO records, and all that history
will disappear - just like Maxton - and those
records can be sold to the next crop of "beginners...."

[SEJ]

i can understand where the ECTA are coming from,
but, in reality they are only establishing "Track Records",
under the ECTA banner, ,

And, in fact, that is what they do.

They call them "Ohio track records."

This is a slight change of course,
and also slightly "revisionist," since
as recently as three years ago, records
set at Maxton were called ECTA records,
and they are now called "Maxton" records.

That is, when they are called anything at all.
The ECTA seems to have "lost" their first 15
years of history from their web-site.  ALL
the class records for 1995-2010 are not listed anymore.

Likewise, there is no list of ECTA 200 Club members,
only the "Ohio Mile 200 mile per hour Club.....

(Interestingly, several folks - I included - set records
at the track in Moultrie, Georgia in the 1990's, and
those records were included with the Maxton records.)

Scott,
 
This isn't true. I just checked the ECTA website and all of the Maxton records and 200 mph club members are listed.
For instance you are listed in the 200 club at #17 on the list at 204.082 mph on 09/00 with a best speed of 242.352 mph.

[scott g]

i can understand where the ECTA are coming from,
but, in reality they are only establishing "Track Records",
under the ECTA banner, ,

And, in fact, that is what they do.

They call them "Ohio track records."

This is a slight change of course,
and also slightly "revisionist," since
as recently as three years ago, records
set at Maxton were called ECTA records,
and they are now called "Maxton" records.

That is, when they are called anything at all.
The ECTA seems to have "lost" their first 15
years of history from their web-site.  ALL
the class records for 1995-2010 are not listed anymore.

Likewise, there is no list of ECTA 200 Club members,
only the "Ohio Mile 200 mile per hour Club.....

(Interestingly, several folks - I included - set records
at the track in Moultrie, Georgia in the 1990's, and
those records were included with the Maxton records.)

Scott,
 
This isn't true. I just checked the ECTA website and all of the Maxton records and 200 mph club members are listed.
For instance you are listed in the 200 club at #17 on the list at 204.082 mph on 09/00 with a best speed of 242.352 mph.

I checked, and you are correct.

That information seems to
come and go from the web site.....

I guess I would be more pleased (since all this
stuff is digital, and "native" to the ECTA), if
they would set the "Maxton" records as
the national records; have the Ohio records
as the track records, and update the
"National records" after each meeting.

Since, for all intents and purposes, Mojave, Goliad,
Beeville, Houston etc have only overall track records,
that leaves only ECTA and Loring as having "Class" records.

If there was a way to combine Loring
(Which follows the ECTA rulebook)
and the ECTA, we could have
"true" national records.

If other countries could adopt
the ECTA rulebook - which is the oldest,
best thought out, and most usable
rulebook - than we could have
true World Records. 

All without involving the FIM......

[gsx-rboy750]

i can understand where the ECTA are coming from,
but, in reality they are only establishing "Track Records",
under the ECTA banner, ,

And, in fact, that is what they do.

They call them "Ohio track records."

This is a slight change of course,
and also slightly "revisionist," since
as recently as three years ago, records
set at Maxton were called ECTA records,
and they are now called "Maxton" records.

That is, when they are called anything at all.
The ECTA seems to have "lost" their first 15
years of history from their web-site.  ALL
the class records for 1995-2010 are not listed anymore.

Likewise, there is no list of ECTA 200 Club members,
only the "Ohio Mile 200 mile per hour Club.....

(Interestingly, several folks - I included - set records
at the track in Moultrie, Georgia in the 1990's, and
those records were included with the Maxton records.)

Scott,
 
This isn't true. I just checked the ECTA website and all of the Maxton records and 200 mph club members are listed.
For instance you are listed in the 200 club at #17 on the list at 204.082 mph on 09/00 with a best speed of 242.352 mph.

I checked, and you are correct.

That information seems to
come and go from the web site.....

I guess I would be more pleased (since all this
stuff is digital, and "native" to the ECTA), if
they would set the "Maxton" records as
the national records; have the Ohio records
as the track records, and update the
"National records" after each meeting.

Since, for all intents and purposes, Mojave, Goliad,
Beeville, Houston etc have only overall track records,
that leaves only ECTA and Loring as having "Class" records.

If there was a way to combine Loring
(Which follows the ECTA rulebook)
and the ECTA, we could have
"true" national records.

If other countries could adopt
the ECTA rulebook - which is the oldest,
best thought out, and most usable
rulebook - than we could have
true World Records. 

All without involving the FIM......

I half agree and disagree.
There are alot of people going faster then the Maxton records. My self included. They cant help Maxton got shut down.
There are parts of me that agree with mr g but also parts that are well that was a end of an area and the beginning of a new one. Maybe over all record should stand but thats alot of BS.

[speedduck]

If other countries could adopt
the ECTA rulebook - which is the oldest,
best thought out, and most usable
rulebook - than we could have
true World Records. 

All without involving the FIM......

What i`ve understood there is lot`s of unnecessary rules, just for the sake of making rules. Safety is a good thing but if you have to modify this and that, without proving why, well, these bikes were made for high speed at the factory allready. (start bashing now)

FIM also sucks.

[entropy]

"there is lot`s of unnecessary rules, just for the sake of making rules..."

Mika, we seem to agree on most stuff, but, not on this...
nope.
karl

PS:  I also disagree with Scott on his thoughts on ECTA's motive for setting all ECTA records at zero when they moved to Ohio.

and what the hell, as long as i'm being a contrarian...
I don't see how a single set of records could be meaningfully generated for all asphalt tracks.  The conditions/track configs are too different.

[scott g]

PS:  I also disagree with Scott on his thoughts on ECTA's
motive for setting all ECTA records at zero when they moved to Ohio.

and what the hell, as long as i'm being a contrarian...
I don't see how a single set of records could be meaningfully
generated for all asphalt tracks. 

The conditions/track configs are too different.

The conditions/track configs are too different.

Karl:  Somehow, Swimming and track have found a way
to make tracks and pools equal all over the world, and
records are in the book from 10, 20, 30 years ago.

Records from many countries and most continents.

Why can't we do that with just flat, level pavement ?

[scott g]

What i`ve understood there is lot`s of unnecessary rules, just for the sake of making rules. Safety is a good thing but if you have to modify this and that, without proving why, well, these bikes were made for high speed at the factory allready. (start bashing now)

FIM also sucks.

I could go for that:

1) Safety is up to the racer.
2) Engine size(s) and configuration are up to the racer.
3)  Chassis and aero are up to the racer.
4) The distance and track surface are up to the competitor.

Hence:

1) No "class" records
2) No "all motor" records
3) no "nitrous" records.
4) No "Track records"

That eliminates those "pesky"
unnecessary rules !

That leaves us with:

Bill Warner  311 mph.

(Or: is it Rocky Robinson @ 376 MPH ? )

That's fine with me !!

[scott g]

PS:  I also disagree with Scott on his thoughts on ECTA's
motive for setting all ECTA records at zero
when they moved to Ohio.

I have no idea why they SAID they did it,
and no appreciation for their motives, either.

It does, however, seem to be
a good business plan for them.

Over the 15 years of "Maxton"  I "invested"
heavily in setting records, thinking that,
like the SCTA"s Bonneville, that the records
might be active - and be competed against - for
50 years or more.

My "little piece of history...."

Over the years, I held at least 250 Maxton records,
including the track record.  @ $100 per record,
that's $25,000.00 directly to the ECTA.

A new group of ECTA racers are in "full flight"
to "beat" that 250 record "record" right now.

When the ECTA moves to the next track,
that history will be gone too........

[scott g]

Scott,
 
This isn't true. I just checked the ECTA website
and all of the Maxton records
and 200 mph club members are listed.

For instance you are listed in the 200 club at #17
on the list at 204.082 mph on 09/00
with a best speed of 242.352 mph.

I see that yes, I am listed as a
Maxton 200 MPH Club member.

I do not remember ever joining that Club.

When I joined the ECTA 200 MPH Club
(And it says ECTA on the hat, NOT Maxton)
you had to break an ECTA record to join the Club.

The first two (s) entries into the "Maxton 200 Club" are these:

1 George Potter 200.445 Modified Sports 04/95 (Moultrie, GA)
2 Joe Law 255.684 Lakester 04/95 (Moultrie, GA)

You will notice that these speeds were NOT done at Maxton.

That's because is was the ECTA 200 Club.....

[FlaminRoo]

PS:  I also disagree with Scott on his thoughts on ECTA's
motive for setting all ECTA records at zero when they moved to Ohio.

and what the hell, as long as i'm being a contrarian...
I don't see how a single set of records could be meaningfully
generated for all asphalt tracks. 

The conditions/track configs are too different.

The conditions/track configs are too different.

Karl:  Somehow, Swimming and track have found a way
to make tracks and pools equal all over the world, and
records are in the book from 10, 20, 30 years ago.

Records from many countries and most continents.

Why can't we do that with just flat, level pavement ?

yup, in support of Scotts comment,, we all will soon be watching the Winter Olympics, watching records set somewhere else in the world reset somewhere else in the world, and cheering our countries on, ,,

Spiderman runs 5's, Ian King runs a 5, Matherson in Australia is gunning for a 5, all different tracks/Countries/conditions, we all accept and make comment,, 

[scott g]

I never understood why changing a venue
should negate standing records. 

As long as the class rules are the same and
the timing lights are positioned correctly, ...

This is such a good observation !

The ECTA was so proud to have "measured"
the length of the "Monster Mile" to a high
degree of accuracy......

The ECTA was so proud to have "measured"
speed to within a ten-thousandth of a second.......

So why a new record book ?

Different length ? (How could that be ?)

Different wind ? (We never measured wind before ....)

Lack of rough pavement and not enough turns ?

Maxton was a LOT tougher track that Ohio.

Folks at Ohio should be able to
shred the Maxton record book !

[scott g]

PS:  I also disagree with Scott on his thoughts on ECTA's
motive for setting all ECTA records at zero when they moved to Ohio.

and what the hell, as long as i'm being a contrarian...
I don't see how a single set of records could be meaningfully
generated for all asphalt tracks. 

The conditions/track configs are too different.

The conditions/track configs are too different.

Karl:  Somehow, Swimming and track have found a way
to make tracks and pools equal all over the world, and
records are in the book from 10, 20, 30 years ago.

Records from many countries and most continents.

Why can't we do that with just flat, level pavement ?

yup, in support of Scotts comment,, we all will soon be watching the Winter Olympics, watching records set somewhere else in the world reset somewhere else in the world, and cheering our countries on, ,,

Spiderman runs 5's, Ian King runs a 5, Matherson in Australia is gunning for a 5, all different tracks/Countries/conditions, we all accept and make comment,, 

So right !

If somebody does a "five" we assume
it's just what it says; a "five".

We assume that all the 1/4 mile tracks are "equal."
and that the timing is "accurate."

What's the problem with the mile ?

[Got-Busa?]

Why can't we do that with just flat, level pavement ?

Because if you've been on the other 1-Mile+ tracks you would understand how silly that statement is...
 

We assume that all the 1/4 mile tracks are "equal."
and that the timing is "accurate."

What's the problem with the mile ?

1/4-mile tracks (especially NHRA certified) are laser measured and a LOT more precise, smooth, etc. than ANY 1-Mile course. 

In theory yes, but that's like saying El Mirage and Bonneville are the same and should fight for the same records...

[Got-Busa?]

PS:  I also disagree with Scott on his thoughts on ECTA's
motive for setting all ECTA records at zero
when they moved to Ohio.

I have no idea why they SAID they did it,
and no appreciation for their motives, either.

It does, however, seem to be
a good business plan for them.

Over the 15 years of "Maxton"  I "invested"
heavily in setting records, thinking that,
like the SCTA"s Bonneville, that the records
might be active - and be competed against - for
50 years or more.

My "little piece of history...."

Over the years, I held at least 250 Maxton records,
including the track record.  @ $100 per record,
that's $25,000.00 directly to the ECTA.

A new group of ECTA racers are in "full flight"
to "beat" that 250 record "record" right now.

When the ECTA moves to the next track,
that history will be gone too........

That sounds like you are pissed you bought all those records for nothing?

It also sounds like they want you to come back out and buy them all again...

[entropy]

So right ![/b]

If somebody does a "five" we assume
it's just what it says; a "five".

We assume that all the 1/4 mile tracks are "equal."
and that the timing is "accurate."

What's the problem with the mile ?

uhhhh....
SO WRONG

NHRA events are individual track events where one competes with others to see who wins his class at THAT EVENT. 
Not to see who is fastest in the world in a class.

Sure, when someone sets a new "fastest speed ever" in a class they love to shout it from the rooftops. Sponsors like that stuff for sure.
But who is carefully maintaining and publishing the list of fastest in each class? I don't even know if that list exists.
When the weekend is is over they carefully count up the points and see who is #1 in the points race.

[entropy]

and, as long as I am on the subject...

Q: how do the LSR Mile orgs measure mph?
A: by precisely & accurately determining the time between laser sender/receiver pairs across the track, placed 132' apart at the end of the track.

Q: do all tracks put down 4 benchmarks accurately surveyed in to 1/10ths or 1/100ths of a inch.
A: i don't think so

Q: even if they did put down the benchmarks, is there some reliable mechanism that is used to assure the sending & receiving stations are placed accurately within 1/10th or 1/100th of a inch on top of those benchmarks?
A: i don't think so

Q: is the precisely located equipment left in place once set up?
A: i don't think so

Q: even if the horizontal accuracy is met, is there some mechanism to assure the vertical position of the laser is accurate, hitting the vehicle at the same point every pass no matter if it is running to the left or the right on the track?
A: i don't think so

Could someone who is smart AND experienced in the exact set up of LSR timing equipment, please take us to school on this?

[FlaminRoo]

Entropy,  if you go back and reread my inital posts im suggesting that now is the time to start working towards bringing all of the 1mile events under 1 orginisation which would set the guidelines for adminstration and competition,, im sure that when the first dragstrips started operating there were differing track lengths and timing systems, but a few enterprising folks eg Wally Parks and company stepped up and set a definate plan in action that now sees drag racing (in all its forms) where it is today,, i use dragracing as an example that i am familar with, however look at any sports thay all started somewhere, with, no doubt, dubious beginings,,,