Haybusa Parts and Service Member Support

Author Topic: Ceramic Bearings..................  (Read 8757 times)

Offline Ghost-Geezer

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Universal Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 7531
  • Gender: Male
  • Older But Still Sexy
Ceramic Bearings..................
« on: February 14, 2015, 06:31:18 PM »
I had some in the last bike Dennis built for me.......it was, I recall, a GT35 with ceramics in the turbo itself. 

What about wheels?  Is there a noticable difference in friction loss with ceramic wheel bearings on a Busa?

2nd question: If ceramics are so "friction free", why can they not be used as rod-bearing surfaces, or can they only be used in spheres?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 06:36:25 PM by Ghost-Geezer »
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline Ghost-Geezer

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Universal Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 7531
  • Gender: Male
  • Older But Still Sexy
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2015, 05:15:34 PM »
Are there no techno guys around?
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline MJ Williams

  • Rider
  • ***
  • Posts: 450
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2015, 06:42:39 PM »
Call Big Dave at WW Bearing and he'll give you the straight poop.
Have a Harley, spent lots of money on it, thought I had a fast motorcycle, bought a Busa, realized all I had was a fast Harley, not a fast motorcycle!

Offline Ghost-Geezer

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Universal Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 7531
  • Gender: Male
  • Older But Still Sexy
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 07:42:50 PM »
Thanks, pal. :)
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline Ghost-Geezer

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Universal Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 7531
  • Gender: Male
  • Older But Still Sexy
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2015, 07:44:54 AM »
Well, I did find out some things about ceramic bearings:
                                                                                            1. They are 40% lighter than steel
                                                                                            2. They are 100 times rounder than steel - a perfect sphere
                                                                                            3. They last 5 times longer than a steel bearing - they are stronger
                                                                                            4. They provide a fraction of the resistance of a steel bearing.
                                                                                            5. They are great for turbo applications, can take the heat and do the job more efficiently. 
                                                                                            6. They cost a bit more, but the long term benefits are worth it.
                                                                                            7. Professional cyclists swear by them and carbon fibre rims for their bikes. 
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Online sportbikeryder

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Universal Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 7220
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2015, 08:00:33 AM »
Othee than the weight statement and the "cyclist" one, all of the comments can be true, if the bearings are of high quality. They can also all be completely false if you buy junk ones.
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.51, 171.75mph 1/8th mile  6.908, 212.83mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline wildphil69

  • Post Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1914
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2015, 07:15:32 PM »
I have a buddy that builds space aged bearings. He actually has some In the space station running in urine. He said absolutely do not run ceramics on the street of you live in an area with potholes. He is currently building me a set for my drag bike that I will test this year and be selling pretty soon... I will keep you all posted!
Nitrous is like a hot chick with STD'S...You know you wanna hit it but your just not sure of the consequences.

Offline Ghost-Geezer

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Universal Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 7531
  • Gender: Male
  • Older But Still Sexy
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2015, 08:56:00 PM »
North Carolina has the 2nd largest number of miles of public highway roads in the Nation.  Our stuff looks great all the time.  We only have about 8 million

folks for 80 thousand miles of paved roadway.   That means the roads do not get beat to shit. Ain't got no friggin potholes.  Just possums.   :mrgreen: 
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline wildphil69

  • Post Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1914
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2015, 08:16:49 PM »
well give them a shot. I will have gen 2 and 1000 bearings available soon
Nitrous is like a hot chick with STD'S...You know you wanna hit it but your just not sure of the consequences.

Offline turbo051k

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 531
  • Enthusiast
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2015, 04:17:57 AM »
well give them a shot. I will have gen 2 and 1000 bearings available soon
1st dibs on the 1000 bearings...... :tu:
'97 DS-80
'82 GS 1100E
'00 Turbo Busa
'05 Turbo GSXR-1000
'09 Busa
'13 GSXR-1000
'15 John Deere L-140
'06 18" Stihl Farm Boss
'07 Echo leaf blower
'09 Echo weed wacker
'15 Polaris Sportsman 570

Offline wildphil69

  • Post Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1914
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2015, 04:35:05 PM »
it will be a little while i still have to test them
Nitrous is like a hot chick with STD'S...You know you wanna hit it but your just not sure of the consequences.

Offline turbo051k

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 531
  • Enthusiast
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2015, 04:46:09 PM »
Im in no rush,have 5 frickin feet of snow here
'97 DS-80
'82 GS 1100E
'00 Turbo Busa
'05 Turbo GSXR-1000
'09 Busa
'13 GSXR-1000
'15 John Deere L-140
'06 18" Stihl Farm Boss
'07 Echo leaf blower
'09 Echo weed wacker
'15 Polaris Sportsman 570

Offline wildphil69

  • Post Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1914
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2015, 06:24:57 PM »
we only have 2 hahaha
Nitrous is like a hot chick with STD'S...You know you wanna hit it but your just not sure of the consequences.

Offline turbo051k

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 531
  • Enthusiast
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2015, 07:27:59 PM »
Bastard lol :mrgreen:
'97 DS-80
'82 GS 1100E
'00 Turbo Busa
'05 Turbo GSXR-1000
'09 Busa
'13 GSXR-1000
'15 John Deere L-140
'06 18" Stihl Farm Boss
'07 Echo leaf blower
'09 Echo weed wacker
'15 Polaris Sportsman 570

Offline Ghost-Geezer

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Universal Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 7531
  • Gender: Male
  • Older But Still Sexy
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2015, 09:49:48 PM »
well give them a shot. I will have gen 2 and 1000 bearings available soon

Excellent!  :thumb:

I mean that sincerely.  Forward ahead!
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 09:51:31 PM by Ghost-Geezer »
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline MJ Williams

  • Rider
  • ***
  • Posts: 450
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2015, 04:56:02 PM »
They are also rebuild-able after the salt trashes the races.
Have a Harley, spent lots of money on it, thought I had a fast motorcycle, bought a Busa, realized all I had was a fast Harley, not a fast motorcycle!

Offline Ghost-Geezer

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Universal Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 7531
  • Gender: Male
  • Older But Still Sexy
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2015, 03:23:59 PM »
Othee than the weight statement and the "cyclist" one, all of the comments can be true, if the bearings are of high quality. They can also all be completely false if you buy junk ones.

The "cyclist" comment was referring to bicycle racers.

I had them in my Gen I Ultra that Dennis built in the GT35R itself.  When I had that bike one day, I pulled up at Tommy's shop and let it idle down for about 30 seconds and we shut the bike off and timed the turbo............it spun for one minute and 24 seconds after the motor was shut down.  That was impressive to all who were there, me as well.
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Online sportbikeryder

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Universal Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 7220
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2015, 07:14:10 PM »
We shut bikes off at 10,000 rpm sometimes with the clutch pulled...the turbo is sometimes still spinning until a pit helper gets to the top of the track to push back :-)

Standard Garrett bearing are typically stainless steel balls rather than ceramic. Some turbos do have ceramics in them.
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.51, 171.75mph 1/8th mile  6.908, 212.83mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline Ghost-Geezer

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Universal Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 7531
  • Gender: Male
  • Older But Still Sexy
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2015, 10:50:18 PM »
Dennis said he made sure they were ceramic............cost a bit more, but not compared to what the Ultra-kit costs.
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Offline turbo051k

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 531
  • Enthusiast
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2015, 05:31:39 AM »
We shut bikes off at 10,000 rpm sometimes with the clutch pulled...the turbo is sometimes still spinning until a pit helper gets to the top of the track to push back :-)

Standard Garrett bearing are typically stainless steel balls rather than ceramic. Some turbos do have ceramics in them.
Come rebuild time.would you recommend using ceramic's inside a street ridden 35R?
'97 DS-80
'82 GS 1100E
'00 Turbo Busa
'05 Turbo GSXR-1000
'09 Busa
'13 GSXR-1000
'15 John Deere L-140
'06 18" Stihl Farm Boss
'07 Echo leaf blower
'09 Echo weed wacker
'15 Polaris Sportsman 570

Online sportbikeryder

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Universal Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 7220
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2015, 07:52:25 AM »
We shut bikes off at 10,000 rpm sometimes with the clutch pulled...the turbo is sometimes still spinning until a pit helper gets to the top of the track to push back :-)

Standard Garrett bearing are typically stainless steel balls rather than ceramic. Some turbos do have ceramics in them.
Come rebuild time.would you recommend using ceramic's inside a street ridden 35R?

Technically, the ball bearing garrett turbos aren't really rebuildable. That said, there are aftermarket rebuild options.

Do you think you will need a rebuild? Unless you damage a turbo, they really don't ever seem to wear out. I've been racing with the same turbo since about 2009 or so. I am just now starting to investigate pushing the envelope more, so that will probably end shortly...
Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.51, 171.75mph 1/8th mile  6.908, 212.83mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline turbo051k

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 531
  • Enthusiast
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2015, 08:26:08 AM »
We shut bikes off at 10,000 rpm sometimes with the clutch pulled...the turbo is sometimes still spinning until a pit helper gets to the top of the track to push back :-)

Standard Garrett bearing are typically stainless steel balls rather than ceramic. Some turbos do have ceramics in them.
Come rebuild time.would you recommend using ceramic's inside a street ridden 35R?

Technically, the ball bearing garrett turbos aren't really rebuildable. That said, there are aftermarket rebuild options.

Do you think you will need a rebuild? Unless you damage a turbo, they really don't ever seem to wear out. I've been racing with the same turbo since about 2009 or so. I am just now starting to investigate pushing the envelope more, so that will probably end shortly...
Good info,thank you. No,I dont put too many miles on the 35R bike to warrant a rebuild. Figured I would ask as Im still learning and any/all info is appreciated. :tu:
'97 DS-80
'82 GS 1100E
'00 Turbo Busa
'05 Turbo GSXR-1000
'09 Busa
'13 GSXR-1000
'15 John Deere L-140
'06 18" Stihl Farm Boss
'07 Echo leaf blower
'09 Echo weed wacker
'15 Polaris Sportsman 570

Offline Ghost-Geezer

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Universal Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 7531
  • Gender: Male
  • Older But Still Sexy
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2015, 11:04:22 AM »
it will be a little while i still have to test them

Get a 30 lb block of cast iron with a flat upper face, place a bearing on it, and hit it with a two lb hammer.  Hit it hard.  If it sinks in with no deformation, you have a winner, it may just shatter like a piece of glass.  Good test from what I have been told.  Do that to ten of 'em in a row, and if they all pass, you will have succeeded where the Chinese have failed.
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."

Online sportbikeryder

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Universal Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 7220
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2015, 12:00:38 PM »
According to an article on dragbike.com from earlier this year, new ceramic bearings installed in a wheel and measured with a fairly unscientific test took the equivalent of .016HP less power (0.1A difference) to rotate the wheel with ome sort of grinder or similar with no additional external load as compared to steel bearings.  (0.1A at an assumed 120V = 12 watts. 12watts/746 watts per hp=0.016hp)

I personally have never seen any real somewhat scientific testing done to show that ceramics are actually a beneficial cost/performance increase, and I doubt I ever will. For those with the mindset that every little bit helps, they certainly won't hurt. That said, I will fashion a guess that 95+% of bikes that have ceramic bearings would have a better performance increase by spending the money elsewhere.

I can say with certainty that Prostreet bikes have gone into the 6's both with and without ceramic bearings installed.
Bikes with ceramics definitely roll smoother when pushing them around the pits and can be used to impress a few half drunk friends if you put the bike on a stand, take off the chain or loosen the front brakes and give it a whirl  :lol:
 

http://www.dragbike.com/worldwide-bearings-ceramic-bearings-are-they-worth-it/

Any day on a motorcycle like this that ends just needing parts and labor is a good day.
4.82, 158.67mph 1/8th mile 7.350, 200.32mph 1/4 mile Riding

4.51, 171.75mph 1/8th mile  6.908, 212.83mph 1/4 mile Tuning

Offline Ghost-Geezer

  • OFF TOPIC
  • Universal Post Whore
  • **********
  • Posts: 7531
  • Gender: Male
  • Older But Still Sexy
Re: Ceramic Bearings..................
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2015, 07:31:07 PM »
For those with the mindset that every little bit helps, they certainly won't hurt. That said, I will fashion a guess that 95+% of bikes that have ceramic bearings would have a better performance increase by spending the money elsewhere.

Spending money elsewhere?............we are only talkin' 400 bucks retail.  I can't buy a good set of tires for that.   I bought them and will enjoy them.  Anytime you can reduce friction on any rolling part of your bike, whether it is internal or external, is a gift, IMO.

Davey

P.S. Formula 1 runs ceramic wheel bearings................for performance, strength, and durability.   
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 07:59:20 PM by Ghost-Geezer »
"The thrill of Boost cannot be duplicated on earth."

"One drink is too many and a thousand is not enuf."

"Step UP or Step Aside"

"Four wheels moves the body,
Two wheels moves the soul."