Oil

[Ghost-Geezer]

Everyone seems to have their own affinity for a particular brand/weight and full syntetic vs. ester vs. pertroleum.

I used to run Mobil 1 10W-40 back in 03 in Turbusa before they changed it.

I then went to Amsoil Motorcycle specific 10w-40 full synthetic.

Now I am hearing that Motul 300V-10W40 full synthetic is a great oil.

I have even heard some guys run Rotella 10w-40.

The fact is, from what I have seen and heard, that oil selection can become a very emotional issue 'twixt racers and builders of fast/quick street bikes and track bikes.

What do most of you with hiigh mileage on either a turbo or built N/A motors use?  And your experinces and reasons for doing so.

Just curious.   I am open to sggestions.

[Rocketgeezer]

the subject of oil preference is one of the most hashed out subjects ever, so what the hell its sunday morning, its cold out,  the only oil you should not put in a oil bath clutch bike is anything with Teflon or any other type of slick additives, other than that I'm not sure how the bikes eng could ever tell the difference between motorcycle specific oil and normal car oils, now amsoil, motul, and I'm sure 10 or 12 other (motorcycle) oils are great oils, but you generally do have to buy these oils at a bike or speed shop, and pay dearly for them, and I'm not going to argue weather they are worth the money, in the many years of bikes I have had, I have used about everything at one time or another, 5-30 10-30 10-40 15-40 20-50, in both synthetic and normal (petro) based. at times it would seem when the oil gets a lot of time oil miles on it the clutch may react a little different, no slip, but maybe a little grabby, but it was hardly noticeable, and the type or weight of the oil never seemed to make any difference, now personally if I can get a coupon and Walmart has it I will use 15-50 Mobil 1, and if not a good name brand diesel 15-40, Rotella is a good oil, in ether synthetic or normal, but if available I try to go with Valvoline, or Havoline, or Castrol 15-40 diesel, reason being although the Rotella is a good oil it seems to get shit up (gets dirty looking) faster than the others,  I also use the same oil in the Harley's eng, ........now if you have a bike that has had the dogshit ridden out of it and the motor smokes or make unusual noises, or leaks like a sive, all bets are off, but the heavyest crap you can find in it 50 or 60 weight

[piratediverjefff]

Mornin' you two old fucks,

Right now I'm running the Alisyn Pro Drive 21 in 10w30 along with the Petron Plus from Brocks and bike seems to like it,in the past have used Joe Gibbs Driven MX 10W30 Wet Clutch Racing Oil(as they call it)and for several years ran the Motul 300V 10w40(and always an OEM filter).All are a bit pricey but since I only average about 3,000 miles a year it's a once a year thing for under a $100 so I don't mind.I'm pretty sure Brock advises anything over a 30 weight isn't necessary(maybe a 10w40 for a 1441 build)and only kills power,unless it's a high hp turbo or nitrous motor and then maybe go as high as a 15w50.I think as long as you use a motorcycle specific,full synthetic in a 10w40 for a 1441 you're probably good to go(and if you're gonna change it every 1200 miles instead of every 2500-3000 then you can probably get by with something less and the bike wouldn't know the difference).

[Rocketgeezer]

Mornin' you two old fucks,

Right now I'm running the Alisyn Pro Drive 21 in 10w30 along with the Petron Plus from Brocks and bike seems to like it,in the past have used Joe Gibbs Driven MX 10W30 Wet Clutch Racing Oil(as they call it)and for several years ran the Motul 300V 10w40(and always an OEM filter).All are a bit pricey but since I only average about 3,000 miles a year it's a once a year thing for under a $100 so I don't mind.I'm pretty sure Brock advises anything over a 30 weight isn't necessary(maybe a 10w40 for a 1441 build)and only kills power,unless it's a high hp turbo or nitrous motor and then maybe go as high as a 15w50.I think as long as you use a motorcycle specific,full synthetic in a 10w40 for a 1441 you're probably good to go(and if you're gonna change it every 1200 miles instead of every 2500-3000 then you can probably get by with something less and the bike wouldn't know the difference).

Hey Bud, when I ride to and from work every day I average 1000-1200 miles a month, and try to change every 6-8 weeks, sooner if the oil looks like shit, and I never will say the high dollar oils are not worth the money, its just I have never seen a real difference in eng ware, I have had the Busa's  eng apart several times after using different oils and have never seen any problem with ether 4 or 5 dollar a qt vs 18 or 20 dollar a qt, so this is why I go for a filter and oil from Walmart for $25, vs filter and oil from the bike shop for $80 or $90, I may be a cheap  as I do the same with the Harley, and I get bulk gear gear oil from work for the Harleys trans, and use a 75-80 trans oil in the primary, I don't like it but have used the 15-40 Rotella from the bulk tank, after running through a screen of course, I will agree that if the oil is used for 3000-5000 or more miles the high dollar stuff MAY be better, but it still gets crappy looking in the same miles as the cheaper stuff, now it don't directly relate to the bike engines I have seen these morons come into work with there diesel trucks with over 10K on the oil, what kind of shit is that, engines running fine, I guess the bottom line on oil is use whatever you want the bike does not seem to mind  

[Ghost-Geezer]

Rocket,
               Calm down.  Just because you change oil early does not make you a bad person.

What I am searchin' for is an opinon on how often to change Motul 300V-Full Synthetic with PETRON friction inhibitor, with

street riding and maybe 10-12 redlines over a 3K interval.  No track, no LSR, just street "Roll-on from a 60 and go to 175".

you know, fun  stuff.  Nothin' special.  I just do not wish  :shock:to meet my Maker on a stocker.

And if they ask me what has been done to my bike I will politely tell them I do't know except for the pipe

and the wheels.   I bought it off a shop that was closing and paid 10K for it the way it sits.

           


As a side bar note: my son and I have a "grudge race" his 2014, 2.4L Stick shift 5 speed, Accord which weighs 3300 lbs vs. my 2.5L 2013 Ford Fusion, 6 speed auto with Drive or Super on stick, Lightweight alloy rims, Petron additive, and the option to dump the traction control in "Super"    My car weighs 2700 with the new rims.        I hope to take him to school/Power to weight, clutch be damned.

I luv youse guys.                               

[piratediverjefff]

Mornin' you two old fucks,

Right now I'm running the Alisyn Pro Drive 21 in 10w30 along with the Petron Plus from Brocks and bike seems to like it,in the past have used Joe Gibbs Driven MX 10W30 Wet Clutch Racing Oil(as they call it)and for several years ran the Motul 300V 10w40(and always an OEM filter).All are a bit pricey but since I only average about 3,000 miles a year it's a once a year thing for under a $100 so I don't mind.I'm pretty sure Brock advises anything over a 30 weight isn't necessary(maybe a 10w40 for a 1441 build)and only kills power,unless it's a high hp turbo or nitrous motor and then maybe go as high as a 15w50.I think as long as you use a motorcycle specific,full synthetic in a 10w40 for a 1441 you're probably good to go(and if you're gonna change it every 1200 miles instead of every 2500-3000 then you can probably get by with something less and the bike wouldn't know the difference).

Hey Bud, when I ride to and from work every day I average 1000-1200 miles a month, and try to change every 6-8 weeks, sooner if the oil looks like shit, and I never will say the high dollar oils are not worth the money, its just I have never seen a real difference in eng ware, I have had the Busa's  eng apart several times after using different oils and have never seen any problem with ether 4 or 5 dollar a qt vs 18 or 20 dollar a qt, so this is why I go for a filter and oil from Walmart for $25, vs filter and oil from the bike shop for $80 or $90, I may be a cheap  as I do the same with the Harley, and I get bulk gear gear oil from work for the Harleys trans, and use a 75-80 trans oil in the primary, I don't like it but have used the 15-40 Rotella from the bulk tank, after running through a screen of course, I will agree that if the oil is used for 3000-5000 or more miles the high dollar stuff MAY be better, but it still gets crappy looking in the same miles as the cheaper stuff, now it don't directly relate to the bike engines I have seen these morons come into work with there diesel trucks with over 10K on the oil, what kind of shit is that, engines running fine, I guess the bottom line on oil is use whatever you want the bike does not seem to mind  

sportbikeryder John calls it my "Beverly Hills" oil.

[Rocketgeezer]

Mornin' you two old fucks,

Right now I'm running the Alisyn Pro Drive 21 in 10w30 along with the Petron Plus from Brocks and bike seems to like it,in the past have used Joe Gibbs Driven MX 10W30 Wet Clutch Racing Oil(as they call it)and for several years ran the Motul 300V 10w40(and always an OEM filter).All are a bit pricey but since I only average about 3,000 miles a year it's a once a year thing for under a $100 so I don't mind.I'm pretty sure Brock advises anything over a 30 weight isn't necessary(maybe a 10w40 for a 1441 build)and only kills power,unless it's a high hp turbo or nitrous motor and then maybe go as high as a 15w50.I think as long as you use a motorcycle specific,full synthetic in a 10w40 for a 1441 you're probably good to go(and if you're gonna change it every 1200 miles instead of every 2500-3000 then you can probably get by with something less and the bike wouldn't know the difference).

Hey Bud, when I ride to and from work every day I average 1000-1200 miles a month, and try to change every 6-8 weeks, sooner if the oil looks like shit, and I never will say the high dollar oils are not worth the money, its just I have never seen a real difference in eng ware, I have had the Busa's  eng apart several times after using different oils and have never seen any problem with ether 4 or 5 dollar a qt vs 18 or 20 dollar a qt, so this is why I go for a filter and oil from Walmart for $25, vs filter and oil from the bike shop for $80 or $90, I may be a cheap  as I do the same with the Harley, and I get bulk gear gear oil from work for the Harleys trans, and use a 75-80 trans oil in the primary, I don't like it but have used the 15-40 Rotella from the bulk tank, after running through a screen of course, I will agree that if the oil is used for 3000-5000 or more miles the high dollar stuff MAY be better, but it still gets crappy looking in the same miles as the cheaper stuff, now it don't directly relate to the bike engines I have seen these morons come into work with there diesel trucks with over 10K on the oil, what kind of shit is that, engines running fine, I guess the bottom line on oil is use whatever you want the bike does not seem to mind  

sportbikeryder John calls it my "Beverly Hills" oil.

Up until a few years ago I did not know who or what Alisyn oil was never had heard of it, then I seen a sticker on a pro mod car and got to talking with the guy, he gets it as part of his sponsor deal the rest of us would have to pay of course, and from what I see that it cost we pay pretty dearly.......Bud, Dave and the rest of you guys, I am no metallurgist well versed in oil testing, its just years of engine work, teardowns and seeing what there is to see inside, I just cannot justify the extra cost of the fancy brand name oils, nothing at all wrong running the high dollar stuff, and I'm not saying its not worth it........... but to me its not

[piratediverjefff]

It's actually pretty reasonably priced from Brocks(about $11.00 a qt.),I'll probably run it again on the next change.

http://www.brocksperformance.com/10W30-Alisyn-Synthetic-Oil-Gallon+I790206+C79.aspx

[Ghost-Geezer]

What is the difference in piston to cylinder wall clearance for a 1441 vs. stock?  That would seem to dictate part of the reason to go to a bit heavier oil if we are talkin' a "significant" difference.

Will ya be using the Petron?

Brocks swears by the stuff - sez it clings to ALL internal metal surfaces, not just ferrous material.  And it is safe for the wet clutch.

I dumped a bottle in my 2013 Fusion..........just for fun.    

[piratediverjefff]

I added the Petron to the Alisyn 10w30 and no clutch slippage,bike shifts buttery smooth,etc.Can't really say(myself)if it has any positive advantage,but if it does help reduce friction/which would also reduce heat/which may also free up a hp then I'm good with it(like I said,I only put on about 2,800 miles per year[3 year average]and the Alisyn,Petron,and OEM filter run about $90 for a once a year oil change).

[Sport]

Has anyone ever heard of an oil related engine failure when the oil wasn't dirty and the filter wasn't clogged?  Ever?

[Ghost-Geezer]

Excellent question.   In all my 67 years on the planet, I have not heard of an oil responsible for an engine failure..........cars or bikes...........what I have had is personal experience with as the Service Writer/Office Manager in an auto-repair shop and working for Danny Johnson at "Johnson Hi-Performance" back in the mid 90's is two types of oil related "failure" issues.

1.  Run the car or truck or bike low/out of oil.

2.  Change the oil, whether you want to or not, every 20,000 miles.

Both spell "The Black Death" for an engine.

My understanding of an oil and it's "appearance" either in the windows of our Busas or on the dipstick of a car/truck speaks volumes.  The dark stuff you see in the oil is made up of two things...............carbon from the combustion process with the crap gas we get at the pump and more importantly and more to the point, microscopic parts of our engines wearing and getting suspended in the oil.  My philosopy on that is to get the bestest oil you can lay your mitts on that will fill the lubricity and protection requirements, while staying as clean as possible between changes. 

Thoughts?

[FlatlandBusa]

Has anyone ever heard of an oil related engine failure when the oil wasn't dirty and the filter wasn't clogged?  Ever?

Some pulling tractors require oil with EP additives in it to keep the bearings from sticking to the crank, 185 psi of boost will do that for you.

Other than that NO, I have never seen a failure caused by oil.

My oil preference is Mobile 1, the only reason for that is we run Mobile lubricants in all the equipment at work and we have gear boxes with well over 100,000 hours on them.

[Ghost-Geezer]

Flatland,
                  The Mobil 1 we bought 10 years ago was a pure, full, synthetic.   After doing a bit of research online, I discovered, to my amazement, that even though Mobil 1 is still sold/marketed as a full synthetic, IT IS NOT.  It is a mixture of "semi-synthetics".  I will not buy it anymore.

Dave

[FlatlandBusa]

Flatland,
                  The Mobil 1 we bought 10 years ago was a pure, full, synthetic.   After doing a bit of research online, I discovered, to my amazement, that even though Mobil 1 is still sold/marketed as a full synthetic, IT IS NOT.  It is a mixture of "semi-synthetics".  I will not buy it anymore.

Dave

I am well aware of that fact, the base oil has very little to do with how an oil performs, that is dependent on the additives.

Also having seen cars with over 450,000 miles on them and heavy equipment with over 20,000 hours without being overhauled, having run on conventional oil, 100% synthetic means very little other than being a marketing buzz line.

I used to be a designer oil fan, (royal purple, red line, motoul, etc.) but when you take the time to dig down through all the marketing mumbojumbo, they are no better that off the shelf house brand NAPA oil for $2 a quart.

It comes down to personal preference.  The important thing is to get it changed before the oil starts breaking down/getting contaminated.  Contamination in an internal combustion engine is far more of a limit on oil life than the oil itself actually breaking down.  No synthetic no matter how expensive can prevent contamination.

And the equipment I previously mentioned with well over 100,000 hours runtime???,  all of it runs conventional oil and 4000 hour change intervals.

[Ghost-Geezer]

Touche.   

In support of your position, we once had a Lexus come in to the shop with a starter issue.  It had 515,000 miles on it, original owner, original engine, and he was a salesman who did a lot of hiway miles.  All he did was change his oil religiously every 3K miles since he bought the car new.  And he used conventional oil.

We also had a guy come in with a blown engine (rod bearings gone)  in his Chrysler Minivan at 110K miles..........he used a "full synthetic" and changed it religiously every 10,000 miles.  Wrong answer.

One thing more, on your heavy equipment longevity, I would suspect large quantities of oil to fill the pan...........that would be a great help to longer engine life also.

My 2005 Mercedes SL55AMG had a 12 quart oil pan..............that is a lot of oil for a 5.5 litre V-8.   

[Ghost-Geezer]

In summary, it would appear that selecting a particular brand of oil remains, to a degree, a matter of personal taste.  I, being kind of older now, have a tendency to err on the side of caution.  Once all the internals are "broken in" I will be using either Brock's Alisyn 10W30 with Petron or Motul 300V10-40 with Petron.   Rodney likes the Motul.  The ONLY reason I am going that route is so I can sleep better at night.  I need all the rest I can get in my advance years. 

[knecum]

I like oil that's designed for the total opposite engine application, close to home and most importantly the cheapest oil they manufacture. Example Millers oil, Maxima, Motul, Brad Penn..

[Amode]

Dave
I have used Mobile 1, Red line, Amsoil. I have not used shell. All the vehicles Harley, Titan Pickup, Busa, The quitest is the Amsoil.The worst is red line. I know red line about 30 mi from me and see him all the time. If i was running fuel i would just run any 60 or 70 fuel weight its only 3 or 4 seconds.

[Sport]

I run Amsoil in my CBX and Hayabusa and since my Vette came with Mobil One I still use it.  Both bikes have over 60,000 and the Vette just turned over 74,000 miles.  I have absolutely no complaints about either.

[Ghost-Geezer]

I run Amsoil in my CBX and Hayabusa and since my Vette came with Mobil One I still use it.  Both bikes have over 60,000 and the Vette just turned over 74,000 miles.  I have absolutely no complaints about either.

I ran Amsoil Motorcycle Specific 10w-40 Full Synthetic in my last stock Busa.  It stayed cleaner in the sight glass longer than most.  Motor was quiet as well. 

[Ghost-Geezer]

Anyone heard of Alysyn's "less than zero"  Motorcycle Specific Full Synthetic.       I have been led to believe that the Alysyn in a stock motor with the additive Petron could be a good match up.

Any input?  No issue if not.

[turbo051k]

My 2005 Mercedes SL55AMG had a 12 quart oil pan..............that is a lot of oil for a 5.5 litre V-8.

Ahhh,a Mercedes man. Ive had several AMG's and still hold this record for the W211 E series:
http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/first-stock-mercedes-benz-e63-amg-runs-11s-in-the-14-mile
Does that make us Benzo-buddies now?

And yeah,the $250 oil changes with Mobil-1 at the dealer sucked

[Ghost-Geezer]

I bought the car with 4K miles on it in 2006, it was a 2005 and was rated at 497 HP.  Paid 91.5.  I sent out the ECU and had it uploaded with a new program to go with the aftermarket pulley we put on the supercharger to spin it up a tad.  Car made 550 when we were done.  Top end limiter of 155 was trashed as well.............top speed was supposed to be 202.  Never found out.

Pulley and associated parts including reprogram of ECU was 10K.  My buddy at Import Specialists installed the pulley for a case of beer.  Took tremendous torque to secure it, had to use a breaker bar over the wrench.  I was truly nuts back then. 

[Ghost-Geezer]

My 2005 Mercedes SL55AMG had a 12 quart oil pan..............that is a lot of oil for a 5.5 litre V-8.

Ahhh,a Mercedes man. Ive had several AMG's and still hold this record for the W211 E series:
http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/first-stock-mercedes-benz-e63-amg-runs-11s-in-the-14-mile
Does that make us Benzo-buddies now?

And yeah,the $250 oil changes with Mobil-1 at the dealer sucked

You must have removed every ounce of legal weight you could, right down to letting the air out of the spare. Nice work. I would have worried ya, though, with that 2005...just barely breathed upon.  Each friggin' engine had a plaque on it sighed by the ONE MAN that assembled that engine from start to finish.  Nice car.  Loved the convertible hardtop.......Blew peoples' minds at stoplights.  Triple adjustable suspension to lower ground clearance was neat as well.  It was smooth as it could be at 160-170..........then I backed out.  Survival instinct took over.